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Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V
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everlast75 wrote: »
Are all of Trump supporters racist? No.
Are all racist Trump supporters? Yes.
You were kind of doing OK, until you came to this point.
I take it you never heard of Louis Farrakhan. If you have not and have to google who he is and what he is about, then the point you made above is absurd.
People love to paint this good vs evil narrative. Its simplistic baby food for the minds.0 -
So we are no longer discussing Trump, we are back to 2009!
Is your point that the DNC should give in to Trump's silly demand to "build the wall", (the type of wall, where it is and how much is not specified) because they lost seats in 2009?
Why not look at the massive success in the 2018 elections. Control of the house, more women, more minorities. The GOP have reacted to that by shutting down the government and are being blamed for it.
Do you think the current policy of Trump and the GOP, to continue the shutdown indefinitely unless Trump gets the arbitrarily created $5.7bn for a vanity project with no statistical backup and which doesn't deal with the vast majority of illegal immigration or incoming drugs, is the right way to go and why do you think it is up to the DNC to give in?
Surely your own example of 2009, where the GOP basically positioned itself to refuse to even contemplate negotiation with Obama, and the massive level wide seats gains they made is proof that the DNC are on the right strategy?
You have tagged my with so many opinions that I never declared, any response I make would be taken up with refuting positions that you claim I have but which I never claimed. Positions I never stated , Im far too busy and dont have the time to discuss strawman opinions I never declared.
Feel free to address any opinion I do state and Id be happy to address them.
I implore you to steer clear of speaking for me and declaring my position as I wont be addressing such insinuations.
The Govt shutdown and the Trump administration hardline on its demand for 5bn in border funding , has been embraced by many in the US. Many people think it is the right 'hill to die upon' and it has the secondary plus of also dispensing with many useless bureacrats in Washington (albeit they will get back pay and many valuable functions are caught in the cross fire) .
Still politics is a messy business not for the fainthearted.
Meanwhile any momentum the Democrats thought they would have with their new House majority is being hampered by the shutdown. No sooner were they warming up their new seats than they have been drawn into resolving the Govt shutdown.
All in all the Govt shutdown has been a master stroke by the Trump administration , they have started the new year with aplomb as highligted by the sight of Adam Schiff having to disembark the bus before he went on his 'jolly' .0 -
It appears Twitter has suspended the account that ignited the latest internet outrage (Kid vs Native American)
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html?fbclid=IwAR22957vqigPC1sDmzsK2qgnihtxfXN9Z6zvnX8Jblv14owgBDvewpTTVro
People are being played like fools.0 -
You were kind of doing OK, until you came to this point.
I take it you never heard of Louis Farrakhan. If you have not and have to google who he is and what he is about, then the point you made above is absurd.
People love to paint this good vs evil narrative. Its simplistic baby food for the minds.
Louis Farrakhan is quite an unashamed racist who doesn't support Trump. Hates Jews, admires Hitler. The SPLC even describes him as an anti-semite. If he wasn't enough of a piece of work, he also pushes Scientology.
I think that the person you were responding to would have been more correct to use the term "white supremacist" instead of racist.0 -
It appears Twitter has suspended the account that ignited the latest internet outrage (Kid vs Native American)
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/21/tech/twitter-suspends-account-native-american-maga-teens/index.html?fbclid=IwAR22957vqigPC1sDmzsK2qgnihtxfXN9Z6zvnX8Jblv14owgBDvewpTTVro
People are being played like fools.
There are a few accounts on Twitter which are worth following if you want to keep up with disinformation and artificial amplification. josh_emerson and conspirator0 are a good start. The fake twitter account was spotted fairly quickly.0 -
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You have tagged my with so many opinions that I never declared, any response I make would be taken up with refuting positions that you claim I have but which I never claimed. Positions I never stated , Im far too busy and dont have the time to discuss strawman opinions I never declared.
Feel free to address any opinion I do state and Id be happy to address them.
I implore you to steer clear of speaking for me and declaring my position as I wont be addressing such insinuations.
The Govt shutdown and the Trump administration hardline on its demand for 5bn in border funding , has been embraced by many in the US. Many people think it is the right 'hill to die upon' and it has the secondary plus of also dispensing with many useless bureacrats in Washington (albeit they will get back pay and many valuable functions are caught in the cross fire) .
Still politics is a messy business not for the fainthearted.
Meanwhile any momentum the Democrats thought they would have with their new House majority is being hampered by the shutdown. No sooner were they warming up their new seats than they have been drawn into resolving the Govt shutdown.
All in all the Govt shutdown has been a master stroke by the Trump administration , they have started the new year with aplomb as highligted by the sight of Adam Schiff having to disembark the bus before he went on his 'jolly' .
You've got me confused. You mentioned that the Dems had ful control in 2009 and lost loads of seats off the back of that. That was in reply to my point that the Dems should hold firm as the polls are in their favour and they main get full control. If you point about losing seats was not about that they what was it in relation to?
You then went into some opinion piece about America never voting the Dems back in to full control (not sure how you worked that out) and then onto an totally fact free point about trump achieving more than Obama.
In response to the first part, as the second and third are not based on anything so not worth 'debating', I pointed out that the Dems won big in 2018, the polls are in the favour and the GOP have a major problem as clearly they didn't bother with the wall for the last two years and this shutdown is just Trump trying to get his way and the GOP are forced to side with him.
And I didn't speak for you, I asked you to define and expand on your points. So I'll ask again. Surely your own example of 2009, where the GOP basically positioned itself to refuse to even contemplate negotiation with Obama, and the massive level wide seats gains they made is proof that the DNC are on the right strategy?0 -
And I didn't speak for you, I asked you to define and expand on your points. So I'll ask again. Surely your own example of 2009, where the GOP basically positioned itself to refuse to even contemplate negotiation with Obama, and the massive level wide seats gains they made is proof that the DNC are on the right strategy?
Actually thats your claim.
If you think the Dems flipping the house is indicative of the massive seat swing the GOP took during Obamas 8 years then you will be dissapointed.
The DNC gains (even with pretty much wall to wall 24x7 main stream support) dont even come close to the momentum the GOP swept across the US in that period.
The House loss is a minor blip that astute and long time followers of US politics understand as merely another swing of the political pendulum. And unlike the totalitarian left who scream 'blue murder' when the pendulum swings to the other side, the balanced right can handle a loss without the need for comfort and consolation in the shape of safe spaces to absorb a political loss.
The GOP (with the help of Pelosi, the gift that keeps giving) have even managed to turn the the loss of the house into an oppurtunity. DNC polcies and the crackpots that are making up the new cadre of Democratic representatives are as likely to turn a generation away from Democrats as they are to increase their followers.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 22734
Mod Note
Gentle reminder. The mod warnings from previous threads still stand.Baron de Charlus wrote: »Hi folks,
The charter states:
"This forum is for discussion and debate and we will not tolerate soapboxing. If you are here to "shout everyone down" with your opinions, we will see you as a negative contributor to the forum and will take appropriate action. High standards of debate and quality posts / threads are required."
Repeatedly calling anyone who doesn't agree with you things like the "totalitarian liberal left" is (aside from making no sense whatsoever) soap boxing.
I'd encourage everyone to be respectful and engage with other contributors rather than hurling insults.0 -
Actually thats your claim.
If you think the Dems flipping the house is indicative of the massive seat swing the GOP took during Obamas 8 years then you will be dissapointed.
The DNC gains (even with pretty much wall to wall 24x7 main stream support) dont even come close to the momentum the GOP swept across the US in that period.
The House loss is a minor blip that astute and long time followers of US politics understand as merely another swing of the political pendulum. And unlike the totalitarian left who scream 'blue murder' when the pendulum swings to the other side, the balanced right can handle a loss without the need for comfort and consolation in the shape of safe spaces to absorb a political loss.
The GOP (with the help of Pelosi, the gift that keeps giving) have even managed to turn the the loss of the house into an oppurtunity. DNC polcies and the crackpots that are making up the new cadre of Democratic representatives are as likely to turn a generation away from Democrats as they are to increase their followers.
Well you don't know what is going to happen in the future, neither do I, but the loss and the size and shape of it, although downplayed by the GOP and Trump in 2018 was significant.
Now we have a shutdown engineered and owned by Trump and fully supported by the GOP which the polls indicate that the majority of Americans blame Trump and the GOP for. Now that doesn't suggest that they will do better in future elections.
Will it result in full control, well I for one hope not as I don't think that is healthy. I think the last two years have shown that full control is not a good place for a democracy to be. But even if it doesn't, the polls suggest that the DNC simply need to wait this out. The economy also is starting to shows signs of being effected, and this will put more pressure on Trump since, rightly, the economy is a strong card for him to play.
So what do you think the DNC should do in this situation? What do you think the GOP would do if in their place?
What benefit would accrue to the DNC if they give in on the wall? Will it get GOP voters on their side? Will it cement the loyal DNC voters? Will it get swing voters?
And what do you think will be the effect if Trump gives in and reopens without the wall?0 -
So what do you think the DNC should do in this situation? What do you think the GOP would do if in their place?
What benefit would accrue to the DNC if they give in on the wall? Will it get GOP voters on their side? Will it cement the loyal DNC voters? Will it get swing voters?
And what do you think will be the effect if Trump gives in and reopens without the wall?
Has boards turned into an inquisition in my abscence or were my insightful comments missed so much you cant hide your desire for them.
The shutdown is playing out very well for the Trump administration, part of it a planned strategy and part of it acting on the oppurtunistic elements it presents (aka 'get off the bus Adam Schiff')
Theres many other important stories developing, Chinas cut of banking reserve limits and weakening trade figures from China and more suprisingly Germany are all indicative of the wisdom of Trump administration 'America First' trade policy.
Its a long term game folks, always was and always will be. As with everything Trump is in for the long haul on the border wall , unlike the left who seek the instant silver bullet in a viral video of some college kids in red hats.
The text of the latest offer from the WH makes for great reading. Its another master stroke in exposing the 'never-Trumper' indoctrination of the left, no matter whats on offer.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trumps-plan-reopen-government-fund-border-security/
$805 million for technology, canines, and personnel to help stop the flow of illegal drugs, weapons and other contraband. This includes:
$675 million for drug detection inspection technology to help secure our ports of entry.
$130 million for canine units, training, personnel and portable scanners to help deter and detect smuggled narcotics, weapons, and other dangerous materials.
$800 million dollars in humanitarian assistance, medical support, and new temporary housing.
$782 million to hire an additional 2,750 border agents, law enforcement officers, and staff.
$563 million to support our immigration court system, including hiring 75 new immigration judge teams to reduce the immigration court backlog of 800,000 cases.
Provisional status will be granted for three years for current DACA recipients, covering 700,000 illegal immigrants brought here by their parents at a young age.
This status will give them access to work permits, social security numbers, and protection from deportation.
Provisional status will be granted to certain current TPS recipients for three years, providing 300,000 immigrants whose protected status is facing expiration more certainty as Congress works on a larger immigration deal.0 -
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Actually thats your claim.
If you think the Dems flipping the house is indicative of the massive seat swing the GOP took during Obamas 8 years then you will be dissapointed.
The DNC gains (even with pretty much wall to wall 24x7 main stream support) dont even come close to the momentum the GOP swept across the US in that period.
The House loss is a minor blip that astute and long time followers of US politics understand as merely another swing of the political pendulum. And unlike the totalitarian left who scream 'blue murder' when the pendulum swings to the other side, the balanced right can handle a loss without the need for comfort and consolation in the shape of safe spaces to absorb a political loss.
The GOP (with the help of Pelosi, the gift that keeps giving) have even managed to turn the the loss of the house into an oppurtunity. DNC polcies and the crackpots that are making up the new cadre of Democratic representatives are as likely to turn a generation away from Democrats as they are to increase their followers.
It was the biggest swing in seats since Nixon.. So it most definitely was substantial change.0 -
Rigolo, you constantly complain about the Anti-Trump side not listening, but whenever I ask you a question to try to expand on your points you simply veer off another talking point whilst complaining that people are putting words in your mouth.
Maybe stick to a line of debate, detail out your position rather than firing out lines which mean nothing without context. All that you have posted sounds grand, why not forget the wasting of $5.7bn on the wall and invest it in increasing the funds to those? I see that many of those items are not limited to just the Southern border, which makes perfect sense.0 -
You were kind of doing OK, until you came to this point.
I take it you never heard of Louis Farrakhan. If you have not and have to google who he is and what he is about, then the point you made above is absurd.
People love to paint this good vs evil narrative. Its simplistic baby food for the minds.
Ah okay - I didn't know 1 person disproves the entirely of my point.
I'll happily change the word racist for white supremacist. Frankly, I find the differentiation semantic. Both groups of people have nothing in common with me and generally have the same outlook - i.e. that one group of people is superior to another. It is not like being one rather than the other is not going to get you on people's christmas card list.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »Ah okay - I didn't know 1 person disproves the entirely of my point.
What was your point exactly? That only racists support Trump because he is the 'bad guy'?
If you really think that Louis Farrakhan is the only racist that does not support Trump then there is no point even debating this with you.0 -
What was your point exactly? That only racists support Trump because he is the 'bad guy'?
If you really think that Louis Farrakhan is the only racist that does not support Trump then there is no point even debating this with you.
I am saying that the differentiation between a racist and a white supremacist to me, rightly or wrongly, is minimal when we are talking about a white person being racist.
I am also saying that if it makes you happier, I can replace the word "racist" with "white supremacist", or the word "all" with the words "vast f'n majority". Take your pick. Fill your boots.
I am saying that he espouses certain views and that people of a similar belief take heart in that and voice their support for him.
If that makes them or him "bad", you can decide that for yourself. I don't even know if you are saying that Trump is or is not racist, or whether you think that is a good or bad thing.
I'm not clogging up this thread with a round and round argument. If you want to take it to DM, go right ahead. If not, I'm moving on.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »I am saying that the differentiation between a racist and a white supremacist to me, rightly or wrongly, is minimal when we are talking about a white person being racist.
I am also saying that if it makes you happier, I can replace the word "racist" with "white supremacist", or the word "all" with the words "vast f'n majority". Take your pick. Fill your boots.
I am saying that he espouses certain views and that people of a similar belief take heart in that and voice their support for him.
If that makes them or him "bad", you can decide that for yourself. I don't even know if you are saying that Trump is or is not racist, or whether you think that is a good or bad thing.
I'm not clogging up this thread with a round and round argument. If you want to take it to DM, go right ahead. If not, I'm moving on.
The internet is awash with video of the Black Hebrew Israelites verbally and racially accosting HS kids basically cos they have MAGA hats and are white .
If thats not establishing people have gone on a round and round argument on this .. nothing will .
The BLEXIT movement is gathering pace, Black and Latinos - exit from the Democratic party.
A party that did more to enslave and oppress the black community in poverty than any other.
Now if only the main stream media would publicise it, how blacks are retreating from the Democrats and finally realising all they wanted were their votes and to keep them poor so they could be controlled.
The DNC knows all about 'white supremacy'. they invented the stuff....0 -
The internet is awash with video of the Black Hebrew Israelites verbally and racially accosting HS kids basically cos they have MAGA hats and are white .
If thats not establishing people have gone on a round and round argument on this .. nothing will .
The BLEXIT movement is gathering pace, Black and Latinos - exit from the Democratic party.
A party that did more to enslave and oppress the black community in poverty than any other.
Now if only the main stream media would publicise it, how blacks are retreating from the Democrats and finally realising all they wanted were their votes and to keep them poor so they could be controlled.
The DNC knows all about 'white supremacy'. they invented the stuff....
Where did you find out about them leaving the Dems?
This is interesting, I would like to read up on this.0 -
Personally I think it's more than reasonable to class all people who still support Trump as racists.What was your point exactly? That only racists support Trump because he is the 'bad guy'?
If people still support him after...
i) the vile racist rhetoric against Mexicans and Muslims
ii) him classing actual Nazis as "very fine people"
iii) his anti-semitic tweets and regular anti-semitic dog whistles such as "America first", "globalists" and "Soros", as well as his pathetic reaction to the Pittsburgh ssynagogue massacre
iv) his pandering to the KKK
v) his downgrading of far right organisations as a terrorist threat
vi) the racist birther conspiracy theory which was pushed by him
...and on and on and on...
...I think it's fair to say all those people have a racism problem, or to put another way, are racists.
I think it's not just entirely reasonable, but a statement of the bleedin' obvious.0 -
The internet is awash with video of the Black Hebrew Israelites verbally and racially accosting HS kids basically cos they have MAGA hats and are white .
If thats not establishing people have gone on a round and round argument on this .. nothing will .
The BLEXIT movement is gathering pace, Black and Latinos - exit from the Democratic party.
A party that did more to enslave and oppress the black community in poverty than any other.
Now if only the main stream media would publicise it, how blacks are retreating from the Democrats and finally realising all they wanted were their votes and to keep them poor so they could be controlled.
The DNC knows all about 'white supremacy'. they invented the stuff....
I'll answer your point, when you answer Leroy's..Rigolo, you constantly complain about the Anti-Trump side not listening, but whenever I ask you a question to try to expand on your points you simply veer off another talking point whilst complaining that people are putting words in your mouth.
Maybe stick to a line of debate, detail out your position rather than firing out lines which mean nothing without context. All that you have posted sounds grand, why not forget the wasting of $5.7bn on the wall and invest it in increasing the funds to those? I see that many of those items are not limited to just the Southern border, which makes perfect sense.0 -
Where did you find out about them leaving the Dems?
This is interesting, I would like to read up on this.
Try this for the reality of Blexit (an economic movement, nothing to do with a bunch of lies promulgated by Breitbart): https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2018/11/21/will-the-real-blexit-please-stand-up/#3050abf940e70 -
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hill16bhoy wrote: »Personally I think it's more than reasonable to class all people who still support Trump as racists.
If people still support him after...
i) the vile racist rhetoric against Mexicans and Muslims
ii) him classing actual Nazis as "very fine people"
iii) his anti-semitic tweets and regular anti-semitic dog whistles such as "America first", "globalists" and "Soros", as well as his pathetic reaction to the Pittsburgh ssynagogue massacre
iv) his pandering to the KKK
v) his downgrading of far right organisations as a terrorist threat
vi) the racist birther conspiracy theory which was pushed by him
...and on and on and on...
...I think it's fair to say all those people have a racism problem, or to put another way, are racists.
I think it's not just entirely reasonable, but a statement of the bleedin' obvious.
You make a compelling argument, but it is not as simple as that. There are Americans who don't like his racisim, sexism and so on, but have been so let down by the American ruling political class that they will overlook all his flaws, in the hope he can deliver for them. Jobs, food of the table, wages, etc. If you watch Michael Moores new film you see vast communities that have been decimated and forgotten about by the former President and his ilk, they are beyond desperate, and his message resonates with them.
I am not sure we should condemn them for believing in him, personally I pity them and their plight, and the fact that the man they hope will be their saviour, doesn't give a sh!t about them.0 -
Where did you find out about them leaving the Dems?
This is interesting, I would like to read up on this.
Its all over the LA Times, NY Times and Washington Post isnt it , after all this is big news , black people choosing a party that wants them to get out of their poverty trap, instead of a party that just wants their vote....
Candace Owens , (one smart African American woman, big things ahead for her) has been calling out the DNC hypocrisy for a few years now.
Or you can look up YBLS Young Black Leadership Summit , present at manys a conservative think tank. Or have a listen to Larry Elder another black activist speaking out against the DNC
Or else take a visit to Chicago, the worst black on black poverty and crime levels in the US, and hasnt had a GOP rep since the 30s I think.Originally Posted by hill16bhoy
Personally I think it's more than reasonable to class all people who still support Trump as racists.
interesting how you could consider the Young Black Leadership grouping as racist.. but heh thats your perogative.0 -
8% of black voters voted for Trump in 2016 and 9% voted for Republican candidates in November midterms so if there is a major 'Blexit' those people are leaving the electoral system altogether and joining the 100 million Americans who don't vote.0
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Stallingrad wrote: »You make a compelling argument, but it is not as simple as that. There are Americans who don't like his racisim, sexism and so on, but have been so let down by the American ruling political class that they will overlook all his flaws, in the hope he can deliver for them. Jobs, food of the table, wages, etc. If you watch Michael Moores new film you see vast communities that have been decimated and forgotten about by the former President and his ilk, they are beyond desperate, and his message resonates with them.
I am not sure we should condemn them for believing in him, personally I pity them and their plight, and the fact that the man they hope will be their saviour, doesn't give a sh!t about them.
that may be a more philosophical argument.
There is no doubt that Trump is racist.
So the question becomes, if you know someone is racist, but you still vote for him (and thus empowers him to further that agenda), does that make you racist, or a racist enabler?0 -
Try this for the reality of Blexit (an economic movement, nothing to do with a bunch of lies promulgated by Breitbart): https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2018/11/21/will-the-real-blexit-please-stand-up/#3050abf940e7
So a white middle class investment guru in Forbes magazine is going to 'woman-splain' the ethos of the Blexit (Black and Latinos for Trump) movement ....got it.
Call me old fashioned, but Im more open to Candace Owens and Larry Elder , for whatever their faults may be, 90% of what they are about makes more sense than anything in that article.
Posters seem relatively new to the concept, is been bubbling along for a couple of years, Trump has given them a voice , a vocie the DNC and totalitarian left took away from them.
And not only a voice but Trump has also given more black people a job and allowed more businesses owned by black people to get off the ground than ever before ... I know amazing look what the supposed white supremacists and racists are doing for inner city black communities.0 -
Stallingrad wrote: »If you watch Michael Moores new film you see vast communities that have been decimated and forgotten about by the former President and his ilk, they are beyond desperate, and his message resonates with them.
I am not sure we should condemn them for believing in him, personally I pity them and their plight, and the fact that the man they hope will be their saviour, doesn't give a sh!t about them.
You make it sound like it was all the fault of Obama. Obviously Obama didn't help, but clearly the GOP have to take a massive amount of the blame.
So it seems odd that many people felt that the only way to change the system to not only vote for Trump, but to vote for the GOP as well.
But even if you believe that many voters voted out of desperation for change, where was that vote for Sunders during the DNC primaries? Surely he should have walked them?
And then since Trump was elected, why haven't people been demanding that he deal with the inherent unfairness of the system? Drain the swamp, better access to healthcare, focus on education (proven to be a way out of poverty). More money spent on infrastructure, training and reemployment drives.
Very little of that has happened and yet the support for Trump has remained fairly constant. So I think we can remove the idea that change was really at the heart of it, well at least not the change you allude to.0 -
rossie1977 wrote: »8% of black voters voted for Trump in 2016 and 9% voted for Republican candidates in November midterms so if there is a major 'Blexit' those people are leaving the electoral system altogether and joining the 100 million Americans who don't vote.
Trump got 28% of the Hispanic vote, 27% of the Asian vote.. and as you point out 8% of the Black vote.
And you do know he won the election .
So not bad for a Republican, subject to a 24x7 wall to wall 'never - Trump ' diatribe.
I expect those numbers to be better in 2020.0 -
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Trump got 28% of the Hispanic vote, 27% of the Asian vote.. and as you point out 8% of the Black vote.
And you do know he won the election .
So not bad for a Republican, subject to a 24x7 wall to wall 'never - Trump ' diatribe.
I expect those numbers to be better in 2020.
Romney got 27% of Hispanic vote, 26% of Asian vote and 6% of black vote (up against black candidate). McCain got 35% of Asian vote, 31% of Hispanic vote and 4% of Black vote. So again zero proof that those groups are leaving Dems and voting Republican. Its not like there were no Hispanic or Black Conservatives prior to Trump. Cuban Americans have traditionally voted Republican and there is a very large ultra conservative black evangelical community in the states. Despite that Trump only has a 3% approval rating among black voters.
The wall to wall media coverage on Trump is helping his cause not hindering it. The us news is nothing but Trump mania 24/7. That's hundreds of hours of free advertising for him weekly. Even when he clearly states on live tv 'you can blame me for any shutdown' you have the likes of CNN, MSNBC, NY Times debating back and forth for a month who is actually to blame.0 -
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Stallingrad wrote: »He had huge support, but was screwed over by the DNC and the Super Delegates contrary to voters wishes.
It is for a different thread, but HC won 3.5m more votes than Sanders in the Primaries. He had big support but not enough.
But it isn't really the point. The poster was making the point that people voted for Trump for change. That although he is racist that does not make them so.
I was pointing out that HC won the primaries, I didn't include but should have, that she won the popular vote and most tellingly since his election despite him not tackling any of the supposed issues that people voted for change on his support continues to hold.
Now either they are extremely patient and are happy that the rich get looked after by way of massive tax breaks prior to Trump helping them, or change isn't really the core part of their support.0
This discussion has been closed.
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