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Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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    #2762
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    everlast75 wrote: »
    He took this action initially because he said this was an emergency.

    It is now into the 2nd month of the shutdown. If it was an emergency, then surely he should have declared it as such and dealt with it via military resources.

    He has not. Therefore, its not an emergency.

    Please explain why he has decided to not pay 800k people and shutdown the government over something that is not urgent and can be dealt with in the normal way?


    He already sent the national guard to the border for the midterms, most of them aren't there anymore. Bit strange to reduce resources when there's meant to be an emergency.



    I'm sure we'll be informed of how this was a genius move and is the democrats fault.


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    #2763
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So today is day 31 of the shutdown. Anyone want to hazard a guess how long this impasse can really last? Can it go to 50, 60 even 70 days? Are there any upcoming events that might bring it to a head?

    I'm expecting it to hit 50 at this point.


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    #2764
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    So today is day 31 of the shutdown. Anyone want to hazard a guess how long this impasse can really last? Can it go to 50, 60 even 70 days? Are there any upcoming events that might bring it to a head?

    So , at present it's only ~25% of the Government that isn't funded.

    When does the rest of the government run out of Money?

    I did see an article the other day saying that the Federal courts were going to run out of money soon (can't remember the exact date , but in the next 1 to 2 weeks).

    That might be a tipping point one way or the other..


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    #2765
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭circadian


    The House has voted to bar America from leaving NATO.

    https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/01/23/us-house-votes-overwhelmingly-to-bar-us-exit-from-nato/

    22 Republican representatives voted in favour of leaving NATO. Absolutely insane.


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    #2766
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,939 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So , at present it's only ~25% of the Government that isn't funded.

    When does the rest of the government run out of Money?

    I did see an article the other day saying that the Federal courts were going to run out of money soon (can't remember the exact date , but in the next 1 to 2 weeks).

    That might be a tipping point one way or the other..

    I don't know the answer for definite but February the 8th is a date that was set to Keep the government open before this shutdown happened so I'm going to guess that that date has implications for the rest of the government.


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    #2767
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    And of course once the 5.7bn has been spent he will be back looking for another round, and the call from Trump supporters will be that without the extra money the Dems have wasted the 5.7 already spent. It is so obvious what the plan is.

    When magically the crime hasn't stopped, drugs are still a problem, the reason will not because the wall didn't work but because they didn't build enough of it.

    Slightly off topic, but given that his base is largely made up of very conservative evangelicals, I would expect that they will lap that up. It is afterall the premise of a lot of their religion. I have a problem, Preacher says pray and make donations, if my problem is solved YaY God, if my problem persists, Preacher says mustn't have prayed hard enough or donated enough. Its a self supporting cycle of delusion.


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    #2768
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    This is such a hilarious mess for Trump. Obviously it's not good for those getting unpaid but his popularity is decreasing as this goes on and he has no way out except for the biggest climbdown in American political history.

    I'm really curious to see what the hell he comes up with next. This was an awful move and I'd say he'd give anything for a dignified exit strategy right now.

    The 5bn for the wall is nonsense. He just needed control with the house gone and he calculated that this stand off would be the way to get it. Otherwise lame duck and no 2020 reeleection. But then the clown went and claimed the shutdown on TV.


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    #2769
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Cohen's Feb 7th testimony before congressional committee has now been put off as Cohen has pulled out due to repeated threats against his family from Trump and Giuliani.


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    #2770
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,939 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Penn wrote: »
    Cohen's Feb 7th testimony before congressional committee has now been put off as Cohen has pulled out due to repeated threats against his family from Trump and Giuliani.

    Giuliani is part of it ? The news alert I got was that it was just Trump. So the president of the United States is treatening witnesses going before congress to give testimony that is not favourable to him ? How is that actually okay ?


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    #2771
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Giuliani is part of it ? The news alert I got was that it was just Trump. So the president of the United States is treatening witnesses going before congress to give testimony that is not favourable to him ? How is that actually okay ?

    Giuliani was saying on CNN over the weekend that Cohen is lying about the President in the hopes his father in law won't be investigated.


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    #2772
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Penn wrote: »
    Giuliani was saying on CNN over the weekend that Cohen is lying about the President in the hopes his father in law won't be investigated.

    Looks like the Dems will subpoena him.

    Btw Whitaker is up the next day. He has been furnished with the questions in advance and asked to notify the committee of any questions which he believes are covered by executive privilege.


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    #2773
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,939 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Looks like the Dems will subpoena him.

    Btw Whitaker is up the next day. He has been furnished with the questions in advance and asked to notify the committee of any questions which he believes are covered by executive privilege.

    Ah good call by the committee giving the questions early so there isn't a repeat of the intelligence chiefs committee hearing where Angus king nearly lost it, because they wouldn't answer, and couldn't give even a good reason why they wouldn't.


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    #2774
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Pelosi has responded to Trump's latest letter requesting the SOTU go ahead, and told him "no".

    She knows the public are on her side and she'll get support for putting it up to Trump


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    #2775
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Penn wrote: »
    Cohen's Feb 7th testimony before congressional committee has now been put off as Cohen has pulled out due to repeated threats against his family from Trump and Giuliani.

    https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1088151842712899585?s=19


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    #2776
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1088151842712899585?s=19
    Quite a ways through the looking glass aren't we? It's a little disconcerting to see such things posted here and it hardly causes a ripple. This is the new normal apparently.


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    #2777
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,939 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So is Ted lieu a congressman or was a member of obamas cabinet or am I mixing him up with someone else ?


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    #2778
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So is Ted lieu a congressman or was a member of obamas cabinet or am I mixing him up with someone else ?


    He is a congressmen in the house. Never in the cabinet as far as I know. He responds to Trump's tweets on a daily basis. Worth a fellow on twitter. He can be quite humorous.


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    #2779
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,939 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    He is a congressmen in the house. Never in the cabinet as far as I know. He responds to Trump's tweets on a daily basis. Worth a fellow on twitter. He can be quite humorous.

    You're right and I tried to edit my post but I couldn't. The funny thing is imagine the uproar if Hillary Clinton was president and was doing what Trump did/is doing ? Imagine the uproar for the right ? Either it's wrong or it isn't.


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    #2780
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Midlife wrote: »
    This is such a hilarious mess for Trump. Obviously it's not good for those getting unpaid but his popularity is decreasing as this goes on and he has no way out except for the biggest climbdown in American political history.

    I'm really curious to see what the hell he comes up with next. This was an awful move and I'd say he'd give anything for a dignified exit strategy right now.

    The 5bn for the wall is nonsense. He just needed control with the house gone and he calculated that this stand off would be the way to get it. Otherwise lame duck and no 2020 reeleection. But then the clown went and claimed the shutdown on TV.
    Is it?

    In my view shutting down the government is exactly what he wants to do.

    He wants to "smash the state".

    Steve Bannon described himself as a Leninist, remember.

    I think this sort of thing is what he has been after since he took office.

    All that nonsense about "small government" quasi-religious doctrine for Republicans.

    They aren't "conservatives", they are destructivists.


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    #2781
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    In relation to the house majority, I'd say this shutdown terrifies Trump to no end. It's just a broader sign that he won't be able to get anything through, basically dooms him to an even worse second term.(With exception of appointing Kavanaugh although that doesn't really help with his perception)


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    #2782
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    batgoat wrote: »
    In relation to the house majority, I'd say this shutdown terrifies Trump to no end. It's just a broader sign that he won't be able to get anything through, basically dooms him to an even worse second term.(With exception of appointing Kavanaugh although that doesn't really help with his perception)

    I genuinely don't think he cares abut getting anything through Congress.

    He's working in Russia's interests, not America's.

    He can fire out executive orders and tweets that give the impression that he'd doing something.

    His whole presidency is a propaganda campaign which aims to effectively burn down democracy in America.

    Sarah Kendzior is worth a follow on this:

    https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


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    #2783
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    B0jangles wrote: »
    That's completely insane - you are arguing that it's better to give in to the demands of a hostage-taker and chance him doing it again and again and again, whenever he feels like it?

    If you make it expensive enough, yes.

    It's not just "Here's the money, give us the hostage and go your own way." It should be "Here's the money. Give us the hostage, and your accomplice's arm, we'll see you again in a few days". All of a sudden, the Republicans will have a lot more reason to ensure that there won't be an again if they want to keep their other arm. Why do you keep forgetting about the other part of the equation? Diplomacy isn't just saying 'nice doggie', it's saying 'nice doggie' whilst looking for a big stick.

    And, as mentioned, standing on principle doesn't help the hostages.

    Further, though the US has an official policy of not negotiating with hostage-takers, many European countries do so, and 75% of Fortune 500 companies do so. It's not that far an outlier.


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    #2784
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,685 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If you make it expensive enough, yes.

    It's not just "Here's the money, give us the hostage and go your own way." It should be "Here's the money. Give us the hostage, and your accomplice's arm, we'll see you again in a few days". All of a sudden, the Republicans will have a lot more reason to ensure that there won't be an again if they want to keep their other arm. Why do you keep forgetting about the other part of the equation? Diplomacy isn't just saying 'nice doggie', it's saying 'nice doggie' whilst looking for a big stick.

    And, as mentioned, standing on principle doesn't help the hostages.

    Further, though the US has an official policy of not negotiating with hostage-takers, many European countries do so, and 75% of Fortune 500 companies do so. It's not that far an outlier.

    That's true. However, the problem here is that Don - where it comes to NOT keeping his word - is a recidivist offender and the two houses of Congress should be obliged to act like a parole board or an adult in respect of anything Don says he'll do if he gets what he's asked for. The notion of having a street cop nearby tapping a baton off the wall comes to mind when dealing with the likes of Don.


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    #2785
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Make my hands bigly!

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46977712?fbclid=IwAR2QVc1qaK6iGIBM3u9DtiOR91hPOz4URuvhRBAQ4vkE2QFZthe7V1ZdYWI


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    #2786
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If you make it expensive enough, yes.

    It's not just "Here's the money, give us the hostage and go your own way." It should be "Here's the money. Give us the hostage, and your accomplice's arm, we'll see you again in a few days". All of a sudden, the Republicans will have a lot more reason to ensure that there won't be an again if they want to keep their other arm. Why do you keep forgetting about the other part of the equation? Diplomacy isn't just saying 'nice doggie', it's saying 'nice doggie' whilst looking for a big stick.

    And, as mentioned, standing on principle doesn't help the hostages.

    Further, though the US has an official policy of not negotiating with hostage-takers, many European countries do so, and 75% of Fortune 500 companies do so. It's not that far an outlier.


    You remember that the hostage-taking person that you want the democrats to negotiate with isn't a hostile foreign power, it's the republican President of the United States, all of whose hostage-taking power is given to him by the support of elected republicans?



    They could end all this by simply refusing to support him.


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    #2787
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Make my hands bigly!

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46977712?fbclid=IwAR2QVc1qaK6iGIBM3u9DtiOR91hPOz4URuvhRBAQ4vkE2QFZthe7V1ZdYWI
    Does that give carte blanche for photoshopping any political opponents' images now?

    If so we could start with the size and shape of the current POTUS' proboscis.

    tbh all I noticed in that was the whitening...


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    #2788
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    amandstu wrote: »
    Does that give carte blanche for photoshopping any political opponents' images now?

    If so we could start with the size and shape of the current POTUS' proboscis.

    tbh all I noticed in that was the whitening...

    They made his fingers longer and made him less fat looking. There's a fair number of changes but the hands gave me a giggle.


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    #2789
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Trump has backed down over plans to do the SOTU elsewhere and has agreed to postpone it until after the Government shutdown.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088288311922307072

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088289916826648577


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    #2790
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    They made his fingers longer and made him less fat looking. There's a fair number of changes but the hands gave me a giggle.
    I noticed the (one) finger but not the supposed work on the neck and the greatest torso.

    This is an extremely important story, I would argue.

    (is it sabotage,I wonder?)


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    #2791
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    amandstu wrote: »
    I noticed the (one) finger but not the supposed work on the neck and the greatest torso.

    This is an extremely important story, I would argue.

    (is it sabotage,I wonder?)

    By his own team? I don't really care, it's an amusing story, no more no less.


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