Garda shoots dog in Longford

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

I am fully sure that if the true extent of traveller crime was revealed then people simply wouldn't believe it.

Frankly nothing Travellers get up to would surprise me. We already know from British news that slavery is not something that they have any moral issues with.

Feisar

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I am fully sure that if the true extent of traveller crime was revealed then people simply wouldn't believe it.

LOL at your username!

Wheres Me Jumper?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Frankly nothing Travellers get up to would surprise me. We already know from British news that slavery is not something that they have any moral issues with.

LOL at your username!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Captain Obvious wrote: »

If there wasn't then why did he shoot the man in the leg and not the chest as he is trained?

People without weapons training always assume that people with weapons training are only trained to shoot to the chest (center of the mass).

Sure if the need to mortally wound someone is required then that's the easiest target but you're also instructed in verbal warnings, containing shots (that's shots fired to the ground/walls etc to contain a target/targets in a certain area) or you can shot to the persons extremities.

People are wrapped up in the fact the video doesn't show a dog. I've covered that earlier. A German Shepard is a big strong dog, shooting one with a small caliper low velocity gun like the Guard has would likely need a head shot to immediately drop him, otherwise I'd imagine the dog ran and died somewhere else.

Captain Obvious

Abram Scruffy Coriander wrote: »

People without weapons training always assume that people with weapons training are only trained to shoot to the chest (center of the mass).

Sure if the need to mortally wound someone is required then that's the easiest target but you're also instructed in verbal warnings, containing shots (that's shots fired to the ground/walls etc to contain a target/targets in a certain area) or you can shot to the persons extremities.

People are wrapped up in the fact the video doesn't show a dog. I've covered that earlier. A German Shepard is a big strong dog, shooting one with a small caliper low velocity gun like the Guard has would likely need a head shot to immediately drop him, otherwise I'd imagine the dog ran and died somewhere else.

I believe you are confusing the rules of engagement of the army with the police.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I believe you are confusing the rules of engagement of the army with the police.

I'm not.

secman

Some people have no morals at all, stealing a dead dog is just the Pitts, not saying who stole it or pointing any fingers, just saying.

tuxy

secman wrote: »

Some people have no morals at all, stealing a dead dog is just the Pitts, not saying who stole it or pointing any fingers, just saying.

The travellers say there was no dog at all in the first place.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/3476127/family-man-wounded-armed-garda-longford-no-dog/

IRE60

The Sun have a quote from Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes (relation of Blondie) saying “There was no dog anywhere near him.” (him being the Guard).


I'm sure that the Garda tie - given all the various interpretations to the events - will get the forensic treatment for traces of Dog saliva.



It's probably best to wait until that's finalised - at the moment it's he said, she said.

Captain Obvious

Abram Scruffy Coriander wrote: »

I'm not.

You are. Gardaí are not trained or allowed to shoot as you described. The military is.

Edgware

IRE60 wrote: »

The Sun have a quote from Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes (relation of Blondie) saying “There was no dog anywhere near him.” (him being the Guard).


I'm sure that the Garda tie - given all the various interpretations to the events - will get the forensic treatment for traces of Dog saliva.



It's probably best to wait until that's finalised - at the moment it's he said, she said.

Are you calling Sonny and Blondie Stokes liars?
How dare you?

Plumbthedepths

tuxy wrote:

The travellers say there was no dog at all in the first place.

To quote a well known phrase "they would say that wouldn't they".

tuxy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

To quote a well known phrase "they would say that wouldn't they".

It's just so brazen though, there were a number of witnesses that saw the dog. Not how they think this will work.
Making the claim that the dog was no where near the garda would work better.

Plumbthedepths

tuxy wrote:

It's just so brazen though, there were a number of witnesses that saw the dog. Not how they think this will work.

A traveller from near where I live lead the guards on a chase he ended up turning the car he stole onto its roof. When the door was prised open the first words out of his mouth were "it wasn't me, ya can't prove it"

Plumbthedepths

tuxy wrote:

Making the claim that the dog was no where near the garda would work better.

Except the edited video Mrs Speilberg posted online would contradict that narrative.

IRE60

Edgware wrote: »

Are you calling Sonny and Blondie Stokes liars?
How dare you?

Oh God No. I'm saying that there vagaries arising each day. I'll soon be asked to believe that they were on their way to Crufts, but at the last minute realised the'd forgotten the dog and had called their mate Tom, the local law enforcer, for a bit of help searching the bog for the animal.

facehugger99

Having watched the video and nearly being deafened by the high pitch screams, I'd say that Guard is in a whole heap of trouble.

upandcumming

facehugger99 wrote: »

Having watched the video and nearly being deafened by the high pitch screams, I'd say that Guard is in a whole heap of trouble.

Wouldn't expect anything less... :rolleyes:

tuxy

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd say that Guard is in a whole heap of trouble.

We know and not just him but his family. He will have protection at his home for the next few days but we all know travellers hold grudges for years.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You are. Gardare not trained or allowed to shoot as you described. The military is.

You've no experience of either, I have both.

People are confused because you see personnel on the ranges and they're always shooting at the chest. Then they think that's the only place you're allowed to shot.

That said, you're not trained to shoot extremities or trained in warning and containing shots. You're instructed that they're your first options.

I'm not arguing with you (I know, that's the AH way and then both sides lock horns. I can't be arsed with that).

Look at things logically, why would you mount (arm) someone and give them only one option (should they be required to discharge their weapon)?.

Just to try clear that up.

You're trained to shoot to the center of the mass (chest) but you're instructed in options other than that (if that makes sense)

If I try to break it down any simpler I'll only complicate things.

***Edit

People without weapons training always assume that people with weapons training are only trained to shoot to the chest (center of the mass).

In case there is any confusion in that.

Its easier to shoot there on the ranges that's all. But bullets will go wherever the firer points their weapon.

Plumbthedepths

facehugger99 wrote:

Having watched the video and nearly being deafened by the high pitch screams, I'd say that Guard is in a whole heap of trouble.

If you mean professionally..nope, if you mean with certain members of an ethnic minority yes if they are stupid enough to make good on their threats. Watch the crackdown they will experience if they do though. I can see the gloves finally coming off.

Auguste Comte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

tuxy wrote:

Making the claim that the dog was no where near the garda would work better.

Except the edited video Mrs Speilberg posted online would contradict that narrative.

Does the video show the dog?

BattleCorp

Abram Scruffy Coriander wrote: »

.

People are wrapped up in the fact the video doesn't show a dog. I've covered that earlier. A German Shepard is a big strong dog, shooting one with a small caliper low velocity gun like the Guard has would likely need a head shot to immediately drop him, otherwise I'd imagine the dog ran and died somewhere else.

A .22lr is a small calibre low velocity round. A 9mm certainly isn't.

tuxy

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Does the video show the dog?

It does not but they did edit it.
Would be amazing performance from the Traveller to pretend he is holding a dog. And another oscar winning performance to talk about about a dog that's not there under such stressful circumstances.

Plumbthedepths

Auguste Comte wrote:

Does the video show the dog?

Shows nothing below waist height, as already discussed multiple times here.

Grayson

having just hopped into this thread, I had thought a thread about a garda shooting a dog would be far funnier.

DEFTLEFTHAND

An Alsatian could legitimately kill a man. Especially one which has been bred to be vicious.

You couldn't blame the Garda for his actions if this attack did in fact occur.

BattleCorp

The moral of the story.

Don't give your vehicle to travellers to repair.

BattleCorp

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

An Alsatian could legitimately kill a man. Especially one which has been bred to be vicious.

You couldn't blame the Garda for his actions if this attack did in fact occur.

Either way, if there was no dog, someone had hold of the Garda's tie.

Plumbthedepths

BattleCorp wrote:

The moral of the story.

Or..

BattleCorp wrote:

Don't give your vehicle to travellers to repair.

Don't bring a slash hook to a gunfight.

arybvtcw0eolkf

BattleCorp wrote: »

A .22lr is a small calibre low velocity round. A 9mm certainly isn't.

Against a big aggressive dog like a German Shepard its smaller and slower than I'd prefer

Right, I'm home now. My boots are off and stinking up my locker so I'm not spending too much longer talking shop [for me].

tuxy

Yes there has been cases of people shot up to 10 times with 9mm and still walking around for a few minutes after then eventually falling over from blood loss.
A German Shepard is about half the weight of a person.

Mad_maxx

tuxy wrote: »

We know and not just him but his family. He will have protection at his home for the next few days but we all know travellers hold grudges for years.

It's about all that sustains many of them.

ohnonotgmail

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Does the video show the dog?

You can hear them giving commands to the dog. you can hear the guard referring to the dog.

jjmcclure

Its the dog I feel sorry for.


Imagine having to live with travelers.... uuuuuggggghhhhhhh


I'd say the dog jumped in front of the bullet to get relief from his miserable existence!

Minnie Snuggles

BattleCorp wrote: »

Either way, if there was no dog, someone had hold of the Garda's tie.

Well it's obvious what happened our cultured friend was having a conversation with his friend in the van, probably showing him what Santa gave him last year (slash hook) but spotted a leprechaun, he had a devil of a time trying to hold the leprechaun (Toby O'Gill the grandson of Darby O'Gill). Then Toby in an effort to escape by swinging off of the Detectives tie was shot.

Reati

tuxy wrote: »

The travellers say there was no dog at all in the first place.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/3476127/family-man-wounded-armed-garda-longford-no-dog/

Do travelers only nickname based on color schemes?

Blondie?
Blackie?

etc

Plumbthedepths

Minnie Snuggles wrote:

Well it's obvious what happened our cultured friend was having a conversation with his friend in the van, probably showing him what Santa gave him last year (slash hook) but spotted a leprechaun, he had a devil of a time trying to hold the leprechaun (Toby O'Gill the grandson of Darby O'Gill). Then Toby in an effort to escape by swinging off of the Detectives tie was shot.

Well said sir as believeable as any story put forward by our cultured friends.

Auguste Comte

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Does the video show the dog?

You can hear them giving commands to the dog. you can hear the guard referring to the dog.

But you can't see or hear a dog? Not exactly black and white.
No one could blame the guard for pulling the trigger if he was being attacked by a German shepherd.
Maybe they should be equipped with and carry a less lethal option, taser possibly, because “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,".

The Garda in this case was working with what he had, it would be the ministers fault he hadn't got appropriate equipment.

Captain Obvious

Abram Scruffy Coriander wrote: »

You've no experience of either, I have both.

Man, you are condescending. I have trained in both.

tuxy

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Maybe they should be equipped with and carry a less lethal option, taser possibly, because “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,".

This Garda was called to deal with a dangerous gang on his own. They can only carry so much. I think a gun is an ok response to bill hooks and a large dog.

ohnonotgmail

Auguste Comte wrote: »

But you can't see or hear a dog? Not exactly black and white.
No one could blame the guard for pulling the trigger if he was being attacked by a German shepherd.
Maybe they should be equipped with and carry a less lethal option, taser possibly, because “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,".

If there was no dog there then who or what were they talking to? Unless you think there was some mass hallucination occurring?

Auguste Comte wrote: »

The Garda in this case was working with what he had, it would be the ministers fault he hadn't got appropriate equipment.

The guard had a pistol and used it appropriately.

Plumbthedepths

Auguste Comte wrote:

The Garda in this case was working with what he had, it would be the ministers fault he hadn't got appropriate equipment.

What would you deem as appropriate equipment to deal with a traveller armed with a slash hook and a guard dog? A bigger slash hook and doggie treats?

seamus

Auguste Comte wrote: »

The Garda in this case was working with what he had, it would be the ministers fault he hadn't got appropriate equipment.

Standard equipment for the role he has tbh.

Arguably even a taser may not be appropriate. It's a separate discussion really. The pistol is known to be lethal, so Gardai equipped with them use them only with the utmost seriousness.

A less-lethal option like a taser carries a connotation that it's safe to use, so an officer is more likely to use it when it's inappropriate to do so. Criminals will also be less afraid of them, so violence is more likely to escalate.

So in this case, for example, Garda pulls taser, woman doesn't drop the slash hook, so he tases her. She goes down, husband and dog lose the plot and make a lunge at the Garda who now has two attackers to try and stun.

Whereas at least with the gun, some form of sense took over and the weapon was dropped.

It is a different discussion though, it would be worth looking at the UK and whether the introduction of tasers made any real difference.

gozunda

jjmcclure wrote: »

Its the dog I feel sorry for....
I'd say the dog jumped in front of the bullet to get relief from his miserable existence!

They have a term for this in the US - 'suicide by cop' whereby someone will deliberatly put themselves in a situation where they are likley to be shot.

Did the dog in fact commit suicide? An interesting angle on the situation tbh

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What would you deem as appropriate equipment to deal with a traveller armed with a slash hook and a guard dog? A bigger slash hook and doggie treats?

Easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1JXhSYfLNE

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

Easy

Prefer a Sig or a Whalter myself.

Gravelly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What would you deem as appropriate equipment to deal with a traveller armed with a slash hook and a guard dog? A bigger slash hook and doggie treats?

Perhaps the Gardaí could be trained in the use of chairs and bull whips a lá lion tamers.

emptyhouse2222

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Prefer a Sig or a Whalter myself.

That guard should run for president

selectamatic

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What would you deem as appropriate equipment to deal with a traveller armed with a slash hook and a guard dog? A bigger slash hook and doggie treats?

I believe Bill Burr covered this topic.

Although he was referring to zombies not Travellers, however...