Retailer demanded Visa Debit card !!

nim1bdeh38l2cw

D3V!L wrote: »

I am not talking about the duration of the transaction with the retailer. I'm talking about the amount of time it takes for the money to be debited from my account.

Completely non consequential in this case.

You need a new bank so, it's immediate with my bank (Ulster Bank)

D3V!L

LeakingLava wrote: »

This is simply untrue. :pac: :pac: :pac:

Well some lad on the internet said so so it must be true.

Kenny B

Every time I use tap - it shows on my online banking almost immediately, so any issue with the Tap would an issue to take up with your bank, not the shopkeeper but because you have an issue with your bank you decide to waste the time of the shop keeper,

I own a card machine and I generally put the card in the machine instead of the customer doing it, I'd say 90% hand me the card when I give them a total, (more office than shop setup tbf) but I see people pulling and dragging at the machine and have to tell them to be careful as I don't want it damaged and have to replace it,

The Self Entitlement is strong in this one.

lawred2

you ok hun XxX

VeryTerry

Kenny B wrote: »

Every time I use tap - it shows on my online banking almost immediately, so any issue with the Tap would an issue to take up with your bank, not the shopkeeper but because you have an issue with your bank you decide to waste the time of the shop keeper,

I own a card machine and I generally put the card in the machine instead of the customer doing it, I'd say 90% hand me the card when I give them a total, (more office than shop setup tbf) but I see people pulling and dragging at the machine and have to tell them to be careful as I don't want it damaged and have to replace it,

The Self Entitlement is strong in this one.

Yeah, yours obviously! You have no business handling other people's property. If you don't want to take the payment then don't. I wouldn't hand you my card.

Dalomanakora

Kenny B wrote: »

Every time I use tap - it shows on my online banking almost immediately, so any issue with the Tap would an issue to take up with your bank, not the shopkeeper but because you have an issue with your bank you decide to waste the time of the shop keeper,

I own a card machine and I generally put the card in the machine instead of the customer doing it, I'd say 90% hand me the card when I give them a total, (more office than shop setup tbf) but I see people pulling and dragging at the machine and have to tell them to be careful as I don't want it damaged and have to replace it,

The Self Entitlement is strong in this one.

That's fine if someone wants to hand you the card, but they're well within their rights to want to do it themselves. And yeah, you're entitled to then refuse the sale, but ultimately we're not supposed to be handing our cards to people in shops.

Kenny B

VeryTerry wrote: »

Yeah, yours obviously! You have no business handling other people's property. If you don't want to take the payment then don't. I wouldn't hand you my card.

Did you see the part where I said 90% hand me the card, you're too busy typing indignantly to bother reading,

I find the vast majority of people have no issue with handing someone a card, it is not as if it leaves their eyesight,

Shopkeepers tend to remember trouble customers, maybe that was why the op was dealt with the way he was.

Varik

Unless it's the fixed reader that's facing the customer and I'm not handed or presented the reader I'd usually hand the card over. Also find contact less faster in general.

Never had a none chip & pin card, but from what I remember most for the old carbon copy and the swipe the cards were normally handed over.

D3V!L

Kenny B wrote: »

maybe that was why the op was dealt with the way he was.

I haven't been in the shop in about 2 years and this chap didn't work there then. Thanks for the input though.

amcalester

VeryTerry wrote: »

Yeah, yours obviously! You have no business handling other people's property. If you don't want to take the payment then don't. I wouldn't hand you my card.

Pretty sure the issuing bank owns the card and not the account holder.

Kenny B

Dalomanakora wrote: »

That's fine if someone wants to hand you the card, but they're well within their rights to want to do it themselves. And yeah, you're entitled to then refuse the sale, but ultimately we're not supposed to be handing our cards to people in shops.

We're not supposed to cross on a red man either, but reality is what it is,

The op has a personal banking issue but chooses to blame a shopkeeper, it's always someone else's fault for some.

eoghan104

Pelvis wrote: »

If it's that important for a €2 purchase to show up on your account immediately then you've probably got far bigger problems.

This.

You said "How do I know he is not typing in €30" get a grip. Do you think the shop would be open still if the worker had a habit of doing this?

You were just being awkward and a pain in the arse.

SweetCaliber

eoghan104 wrote: »

This.

You said "How do I know he is not typing in €30" get a grip. Do you think the shop would be open still if the worker had a habit of doing this?

You were just being awkward and a pain in the arse.

The OP has every right to put his card into the machine himself. I'd never hand my card over to someone else. It's unlikely the shopkeeper would put in a different amount but its not impossible.

I honestly don't see why such negativity towards the OP in this thread. If a shopkeeper is that afraid of his/her machine being broken then maybe he/she should stop accepting cards then.

micks_address

SweetCaliber wrote: »

The OP has every right to put his card into the machine himself. I'd never hand my card over to someone else. It's unlikely the shopkeeper would put in a different amount but its not impossible.

I honestly don't see why such negativity towards the OP in this thread. If a shopkeeper is that afraid of his/her machine being broken then maybe he/she should stop accepting cards then.

happened to me once... i was buying the paper and something else that came to 6.28... shop keeper missed out on the decimal point and took 628... only noticed when i checked my online banking later.. i had dumped the receipt... who keeps receipts of a paper? In fairness the next day went up they handed me out the cash and a major apology..... they could see the transaction on their system

SortingYouOut

Contactless payments can take longer than chip+pin, but this has improved over the last year or so and it now depends on the merchant.

I was at a pub recently in the shticks who accepted contactless but the bar man told me himself that due to their connection, it won't debit until during the week but that chip+pin went straight out?

Strange enough

MarkR

I would normally hand over the card. Particularly in drive throughs. Really, we should all be confirming the value is correct on the terminal before tapping..

flexcon

Dominik Lively Self-improvement wrote: »

You need a new bank so, it's immediate with my bank (Ulster Bank)

Also with Ulster and it's instant. In fact I use Apple Pay and that gets annoying as I get one notification from Apple Pay that I paid, and another immediately from Ulster bank app.

D3V!L wrote: »

I don't use the tap facility because it takes forever for transactions to go through.

My first reading of this was you were implying the actual wait time in the store for the transaction to go through is longer which is inherently false. It is nearly always faster.

But now the discussion has moved into how long it takes to show up in the account. By this definition we are now down to how each bank shows the transaction in the account. This is now ambiguous so I think people should give this dude a chill and realize that in his working life, the contactless transactions don't factually show up in his account as fast as the chip and pin.End off.

The OP who's other half works with the payment provider is right but also wrong at the same time since the arguments here are crossed to what you are actually discussing.

greenwaving

eoghan104 wrote: »

This.

You said "How do I know he is not typing in €30" get a grip. Do you think the shop would be open still if the worker had a habit of doing this?

You were just being awkward and a pain in the arse.

Actually my mum was overcharged by a shop assistant in Dublin mistyping the amount into the card machine. The till receipt was correct but as the till didnt link to the machine the assistant had to type in the amount. He added an extra zero. It was a genuine mistake that my mum didnt pick up on at the time - she had checked the amount on the till which was correct but not the card machine - until checking her bank account later. What was a 95 euro transaction suddenly became a 950 euro one. It took a lot of work with the shop to get the refund issued because their till receipt was correct so they werent aware of the error and then there was of course the usual 3-5+ day wait for the refund to appear. So it is possible for the wrong amount to appear on the machine and a 3 euro transaction to become a 30 euro one.

I can't count the amount of times a shop assistant has tried to take the card off me to process a contactless payment without the machine being visible to me to check the amount. For chip and pin transactions the amount being charged can of course be checked when entering your pin but they should still never be handed over as that is how cards are often skimmed - the card is taken off the customer and held against a skimming machine without the customers knowledge. I have had occasions where my card has been taken out of my hand and done a trip through a bar or restaurant to the card machine only for both to be brought back and presented to me for my pin - really bad practice and a potential fraud risk.

However, when I do come across either instance I just try to hold onto my card, ask to do it myself and explain why instead of storming off or looking to report the person for daring to touch my card. Most shop assistants just don't understand and are happy enough once you explain this to them.

killanena

TheMilkyPirate wrote:

I'm with AIB and contactless payments definitely do take much longer to leave my bank than chip and pin. It's always the case in lidl I live across the road so I'm always in there, if I pay chip and pin money is gone straight away. If I pay contactless it can take anything up to 4-5 days sometimes for it to come out.

I am with AIB too. For 2 or so years mine was exactly like this. I could spend 30e in my account 4 times, 3 times by contactless and the last with chip and pin. Last transaction came out straight away. 3-5 days later the first 3 would.

But the last few months all my transactions no matter how big or small come out instantly. Maybe the bank flagged me for going minus and not having an overdraft. I get paid weekly so would just pay it back in end and they never applied a levy for going negative.

vandriver

flexcon wrote: »

Also with Ulster and it's instant. In fact I use Apple Pay and that gets annoying as I get one notification from Apple Pay that I paid, and another immediately from Ulster bank app.




My first reading of this was you were implying the actual wait time in the store for the transaction to go through is longer which is inherently false. It is nearly always faster.

But now the discussion has moved into how long it takes to show up in the account. By this definition we are now down to how each bank shows the transaction in the account. This is now ambiguous so I think people should give this dude a chill and realize that in his working life, the contactless transactions don't factually show up in his account as fast as the chip and pin.End off.

The OP who's other half works with the payment provider is right but also wrong at the same time since the arguments here are crossed to what you are actually discussing.

How do you get notifications on the Ulster Bank app?Mine certainly doesn't do it.

EdgeCase

SortingYouOut wrote: »

Contactless payments can take longer than chip+pin, but this has improved over the last year or so and it now depends on the merchant.

I was at a pub recently in the shticks who accepted contactless but the bar man told me himself that due to their connection, it won't debit until during the week but that chip+pin went straight out?

Strange enough

They send the transactions in bulk by carrier pigeon once a week?!? Even on dial up it would be going through fairly regularly.

rock22

Kenny B wrote: »

We're not supposed to cross on a red man either, but reality is what it is,

The op has a personal banking issue but chooses to blame a shopkeeper, it's always someone else's fault for some.

No the issue is with the shopkeeper, as any reading of the OP would make clear.

I would never hand over my card either. But I would not use it for such small purchases considering what the banks charge for tansaction

Graniteville

Without going into the OP's issue (I think both OP and store were having an off day), the way contactless works is that all contactless transactions are stored by the merchant machine until an end of day report is done and then is debited from the cardholder then next day.

Some machines do automatic updates overnight, so if its done at 4am in the morning, it could be the day after that a debit is seen.

Where people perceive a delay is on weekend transactions from Friday to Sunday. They only come off an account on a Monday or Tuesday depending on the card.

However when a pin is used, contact is made with the cardholders bank and funds are reserved for that transaction immediately and whilst it won't show up immediately as a standalone transaction, it does immediately show in the "available funds" amount.

Graniteville

rock22 wrote: »

I would never hand over my card either. But I would not use it for such small purchases considering what the banks charge for tansaction

Its now cheaper for a store to take a debit card than to take cash - even for a €2 transaction. And credit cards are not much more expensive than cash. Cash costs 0.45% to lodge and banks don't discount from that. Debit cards are less than 0.4% for most stores, credit cards are about 0.75%.

Unfortunately some stores don't realise that.

Sleeper12

Shopkeeper is perfectly right to me ask for the card. There is no law that says that the client use the card machine. Traditionally the shopkeeper does the business with the card and machine. All that is required by the client is to input their pin number.

I would be wary of anyone taking the card out of site.

Sounds like the shopkeeper acted correctly

Auguste Comte

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Shopkeeper is perfectly right to me ask for the card. There is no law that says that the client use the card machine. Traditionally the shopkeeper does the business with the card and machine. All that is required by the client is to input their pin number.

I would be wary of anyone taking the card out of site.

Sounds like the shopkeeper acted correctly

Surely it would be best practice to avoid any one else handling your card in order to avoid card skimming and cloning?

uptothetop

Looks like guy wanted to scam you. It is called dumping. Basically the terminal apart from processing transaction, actually records all the data like card number, exp date, cvv, your name, etc. Set of this data, together with the pin code can be found on dark net and be sold for anything between 10 - 100 euros. These details can be recorded on the blank card and be linked to your bank account.

Dial Hard

uptothetop wrote:

Looks like guy wanted to scam you. It is called dumping. Basically the terminal apart from processing transaction, actually records all the data like card number, exp date, cvv, your name, etc. Set of this data, together with the pin code can be found on dark net and be sold for anything between 10 - 100 euros. These details can be recorded on the blank card and be linked to your bank account.

That's quite the leap.

Spook_ie

D3V!L wrote: »

I'm far from fragile, I assure you. Debiting does take longer , try it yourself rather than relying on hearsay.

He wouldn't let me put the card in and demanded the card to do it himself. Sorry I wasn't more specific.

Just as a side, I've had people want to use chip n pin on my sum up device, when they've gone to insert the card they've actually been within range of contactless and paid before they even got the card in the slot.

bertsmom

I wouldn't hand my debit card over to a person. If they were pleasant and there was a problem with the machine reading it etc I do just let them take it out and reinsert it or whatever needs doing but Im standing right there chatting at the same time.
To the poster tho who said if you only have two euros in your account you have bigger worries I often pnly have two or five euros in my current account whilst I work full time I have a mortgage to pay ESB and petrol to get etc I HAVE to budget to the last few euros and be careful dont see why that would cause the OP any more worries than the average person on the street.
Im with AIB and if I just tap the card in Lidl it takes longer to show up and be deducted from my available balance.