Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

klose

When cap grabs mjolnir was the first time I went oh sh!t in a cinema and plenty around me did too, brilliant scene.

Tazzimus

Mokuba wrote: »

He had no gauntlet vs two superpowered weapons. And Cap. And Tony who was able to draw blood from a Thanos with almost full gauntlet.

Nothing you can say about weight changes that. They messed with the power scales that they had established in the last movie for dramatic effect.

Tony drew blood from a Thanos that was pulling his punches as he didn't want to kill them, he didn't feel he needed to.

The weapons themselves aren't super powered per say, more they're a way to focus the power of Thor through them.

Thanos beat the piss out of the Hulk without using any of the stones, the dude is very powerful on his own.

Mokuba

And out of nowhere it's Scarlet Witch who is the strongest Avenger as she is on the verge of killing Thanos before he calls down the fire to save himself.

Which I would see as reasonable only:

Tony + Thor + Steve lost to him minutes before.

Not saying she wasn't established as powerful previously, but she struggles against two of his order in the last movie.

Gbear

Mokuba wrote: »

And out of nowhere it's Scarlet Witch who is the strongest Avenger as she is on the verge of killing Thanos before he calls down the fire to save himself.

Which I would see as reasonable only:

Tony + Thor + Steve lost to him minutes before.

Not saying she wasn't established as powerful previously, but she struggles against two of his order in the last movie.

She's a glass cannon.

She can level a city but unlike Thor or Hulk, single bullet to the head would put her down.

She was simultaneously killing Vision while holding off Thanos with 5/6 stones in the last film.

Her issue (as was part of the plot in Civil War), was that she's too powerful.

pjohnson

Wanda is probably underpowered in the MCU tbh.

brianregan09

Nebula did not know about the sacrifice on Vormir , she just knew Thanos killed Gamora somewhere between there and Titan

Also Clint and Natasha were the closest so obviously they would have went together same way Tony and Cap went together and Rocket and Thor , Rhodey and Nebula drew the short straws

Tazzimus

Mokuba wrote: »

And out of nowhere it's Scarlet Witch who is the strongest Avenger as she is on the verge of killing Thanos before he calls down the fire to save himself.

Which I would see as reasonable only:

Tony + Thor + Steve lost to him minutes before.

Not saying she wasn't established as powerful previously, but she struggles against two of his order in the last movie.

She held off five stones Thanos with one hand in IW, she's massively powerful.

Mokuba

brianregan09 wrote: »

Nebula did not know about the sacrifice on Vormir , she just knew Thanos killed Gamora somewhere between there and Titan

Also Clint and Natasha were the closest so obviously they would have went together same way Tony and Cap went together and Rocket and Thor , Rhodey and Nebula drew the short straws

No way did she not know about that. Watch Infinity War again and she displays a clear understanding that something had to go down there for him to get the stone. No way did she have no idea.


https://youtu.be/xZbOn3q_9Co?t=119


I'll say still convenient for them to end up together and convenient for them to end up on Vormir also. They could have gone to 2 out of the 3 other locations. It happened that they were the only two people who could have gotten the soul stone, yet had no idea of this. Very fortunate unless Nebula pushed them to go there together in which case she is far from good.

Mokuba

Tazzimus wrote: »

She held off five stones Thanos with one hand in IW, she's massively powerful.

Fine, but Thor almost killed Thanos with full gauntlet and got kicked around with two superpowered weapons + Cap + Tony vs no gauntlet. You can't have it every way. Massive power variance whatever lengths people will go to justify it.

Gbear

Mokuba wrote: »

Fine, but Thor almost killed Thanos with full gauntlet and got kicked around with two superpowered weapons + Cap + Tony vs no gauntlet. You can't have it every way. Massive power variance whatever lengths people will go to justify it.

He sucker punched him when his guard was down.

Thanos already kicked Thor around the place at the start of IW, so it's hardly that surprising.

Mokuba

Gbear wrote: »

He sucker punched him when his guard was down.

Thanos already kicked Thor around the place at the start of IW, so it's hardly that surprising.

When his guard was down. Just fought Hela, saved his people, lost his planet. Ambushed in space. Ship being attacked. All of Thanos' order there. Seeing as the bulk of that fight happened offscreen not really fair to point to anything.

pjohnson

Gbear wrote: »

He sucker punched him when his guard was down.

Thanos already kicked Thor around the place at the start of IW, so it's hardly that surprising.

Thor was also fully charged and ready for War when he arrived with Tree and Rabbit to Wakanda. Endgame......yeah not really.



But I think this is destined to go for multiple pages at this point Mokuba has decided so canon/power sets/actual scenarios/reasons be damned.

Mokuba

pjohnson wrote: »

Thor was also fully charged and ready for War when he arrived with Tree and Rabbit to Wakanda. Endgame......yeah not really.



But I think this is destined to go for multiple pages at this point Mokuba has decided so canon/power sets/actual scenarios/reasons be damned.

Just had one of the most powerful interactions of his life with his mother - I'd say he was plenty motivated.

Tazzimus

Mokuba wrote: »

Fine, but Thor almost killed Thanos with full gauntlet and got kicked around with two superpowered weapons + Cap + Tony vs no gauntlet. You can't have it every way. Massive power variance whatever lengths people will go to justify it.

Stormbreaker had enchantments built in to counter the infinity gauntlet and he caught Thanos off guard.
Thanos is easily as strong as Thor, if not stronger, and much stronger than a peak physical human like Cap or human in a metal suit like Tony.

Guy:Incognito

Mokuba wrote: »

And any comment on how convenient it was that the only two characters who loved each other ended up going to Vormir? What if any other two characters had gone. Was it just chance? A 45/1 chance by the way.
.

Plenty of comment if you read the thread.

Mokuba

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Plenty of comment if you read the thread.

Yes, plenty of comment pointing out the same thing that I did with no decent response.

Baggly

You don't think iron man and cap love each other?

You don't think a bond of love exists between most of the team?

You don't think it's more likely BW and Barton are more likely to team up because they have been a unit before?

Its a plot device for sure but it's not as far fetched as all that.

alchemist33

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

Or I'm just still confused about how one of the Valkyries got to be called Valkyrie. Were they all called Valkyrie or has she the name as a nickname only?

Mokuba

Pter wrote: »

You don't think iron man and cap love each other?

You don't think a bond of love exists between most of the team?

You don't think it's more likely BW and Barton are more likely to team up because they have been a unit before?

Its a plot device for sure but it's not as far fetched as all that.

Nat and Clint had a relationship spanning years before the events of the original Avengers. They even refer to Budapest again in this movie. They are the most obvious candidates for sharing a love for each other.

I think there were very few combinations that would have been successful.

I think it is convenient that those two people ended up on that planet. Yes it is a plot device and it is a poor one which is what I am getting at. Quite a few things in this movie are poor plot devices.

I wonder again why Nebula said nothing about something she had a fair idea about. One of 2 characters that we know of that know about Vormir in the whole universe. The way she reacts here - https://youtu.be/xZbOn3q_9Co?t=119. It's quite clear to me at least that she knows whats up.

I could go on and talk about alternate realities and how they don't make sense with the Captain America scene at the end. Or how they doomed many other realities in order to get their desired outcome (ethics?). Why even bother putting the stones back if there were alternate realities.

I wanted to love this movie but I just can't ignore the various holes and missteps. I'm just pointing out a few inconsistencies that nobody has given any adequate answer for yet. Maybe we should rename the thread "Avengers: Endgame [Positivity Only]"

paulbok

alchemist33 wrote: »

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

Or I'm just still confused about how one of the Valkyries got to be called Valkyrie. Were they all called Valkyrie or has she the name as a nickname only?

I'd say it's just a plot device so Thor doesn't have to stay on in New Asgard and go off on a gap year for GotG 3

Baggly

You have been given an answer. It's a plot device. You have even agreed with it. Case closed.

Baggly

alchemist33 wrote:

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

5 or 6 years of sea air and minding the Asgardians (by Valkyrie) must have done it for Thor.

That or he really just didn't want to hang around.

Ferajacka

Tazzimus wrote: »

Stormbreaker had enchantments built in to counter the infinity gauntlet and he caught Thanos off guard.
Thanos is easily as strong as Thor, if not stronger, and much stronger than a peak physical human like Cap or human in a metal suit like Tony.

I agree, and power differences aside there was 1 in 14 million chance of winning the war and it was beat with smarts not power. Thanos knew for the most part what he was up against but wasn't until his amour started to break he started to get worried.

Shred

I saw it yesterday and thought it was great. Like IW, I think I'll like it even more once I've seen it another couple of times, there's a lot to take in. There was some brilliant humour and it was sad to see Tony buying the farm, even though everyone was probably expecting it.

irish_stevo815

I posted my reactions earlier but 24 on from seeing it, something just feels empty.

It's like anything really, the build up and anticipation and not knowing adds to the excitement. Watching it is an experience, but now that I have watched it, the excitement is gone.

There is different excitement of course, for the future, but never expected it to have such an impact.

As someone earlier posted, listening to the soundtrack this morning actually brought tears to my eyes again

I look forward to going through journey with my son who is not yet old enough to understand but know it will be a journey I intend to take all over again through different eyes.

Sudden Valley

I felt worse at the end for Tony as he could have waited a few more years to try to bring back the people and could have had more time with his family. His happy ending was sacrificed while the technology resulted in Captain America getting his happy ending.

Foxtrol

alchemist33 wrote: »

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

Or I'm just still confused about how one of the Valkyries got to be called Valkyrie. Were they all called Valkyrie or has she the name as a nickname only?

On the name, she's the last Valkyrie left. The rest died during the previous fight with Hella, Thor himself thought they were legends.

He explains why he's leaving during the tidy up at the end, he's spent his whole life following the path set out for him (being a defender of Asgard and preparing to be king) and he now wants to set his own path. As for choosing Valkyrie to take his place, she's a) she's likely sobered up over the 5/6 years, b) given what we know about their culture, as an old warrior she probably has the respect of the people, c) from a plot perspective they were quite stuck as she's the last Asgardian left that we know

gmisk

Saw this morning rammed screening.
I really enjoyed it, it's a tremendous achievement to keep there many plates spinning at once!
It was funny and hit me in the feels a few times.

loved seeing the characters from Ragnarok popping up again in new Asgard.
It was always going to be the end for Ironman and captain America. I must admit I was shocked Hawkeye survived the whole thing though and Black widow didn't. Maybe there is a way back for her? I am glad cap got his life that he really wanted, and Ironman was the hero.

It was a little overlong and I am sure if you look at plot you can find holes but tbh it didn't matter to me. A couple of the effects as well ...hulk was poor in small bits.
I'd give it 8.5/10.
Looking forward to seeing it again.

NuMarvel

Mokuba wrote: »

I wanted to love this movie but I just can't ignore the various holes and missteps. I'm just pointing out a few inconsistencies that nobody has given any adequate answer for yet. Maybe we should rename the thread "Avengers: Endgame [Positivity Only]"

You must be reading one of those alternate time lines threads, because I've seen plenty of plausible responses. But for some reason, you don't seem to want to consider them.

Maybe you don't want to agree with the replies, but that's not the same as saying as saying nobody's given adequate answers.

Tazzimus

alchemist33 wrote: »

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

Or I'm just still confused about how one of the Valkyries got to be called Valkyrie. Were they all called Valkyrie or has she the name as a nickname only?

Valkyrie are the elite, so makes sense for her to take over from Thor, there's no one else left that could really.

Baggly

Tazzimus wrote:

Valkyrie are the elite, so makes sense for her to take over from Thor, there's no one else left that could really.

Korg could give it a shot....

paulbok

Tazzimus wrote: »

Valkyrie are the elite, so makes sense for her to take over from Thor, there's no one else left that could really.

Did Lady Sif show up? Don't recall her, but then hard to keep track on all the characters in it

The White Wolf

Pter wrote: »

Korg could give it a shot....

If he wants to stage a revolution he has my support.

Tazzimus

Pter wrote: »

Korg could give it a shot....

I would love to see that film.
Oh hi guys, we're just going to destroy this guy's house now, cos he called me a dickhead online again, no big deal.

pjohnson

Pter wrote: »

Korg could give it a shot....

Miek could be Royal Printer of Pamphlets

Slydice

$1 Billion and Sunday hasn't even been counted!

Day 4: $1015 Million
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

Now at position 2 on the 2019 board:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?view2=worldwide&yr=2019&p=.htm

All-Time Worldwide. Position 38 (they have a typo by still saying 131):
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Slydice wrote: »

Day 3: $643 Million - position 3 on the 2019 board - All-Time Worldwide. Position 131

Slydice wrote: »

Day 2: $305 Million - position 7 on the 2019 board - All-Time Worldwide. Position 452

Slydice wrote: »

Day 1: $169 Million - 2019 board at number 10

TheIrishGrover

Enjoyed that. Sure there are time travel plotholes all over the gaff (Nebula killing her earlier self, the whole thing couldn't have happened as past Thanos died before he got all the stones etc.) but I just leave that all down to wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

It was good to see so many secondary characters around (Right down to Agent Carter's Jarvis). I did notice that Natalie Portman didn't say anything I believe she was unhappy being in the movies so I assume it was CGI. Great bit of composite work at the funeral. I don't think for one second that they got them all in one place for real but it was nicely done. I couldn't place one character at first. The young man you see after Hawkeye's family but I assume that was the jid from Iron Man 3.

The effects work was amazing: From Robert Downey Junior's emaciated body right up to the amazing facial work for Hulk.

I mean there was NO surprises there (Apart maybe for Natasha). I mean we all knew everyone was coming back..... But it was very satisfying to see them all back.

I tell you what: They really love f*cking around with Chris Hemsworth. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his idea in the first place: From the Nice-but-Dim Thor in one. The too-serious misfire of the second. The simply bonkers and hilarious three. To the Big Lebowski here. Brilliant. Fair play to Hemsworth. I mean I assume when you see him shirtless that it's prostethics or CGI but still funny.

I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet. Was just too busy. But yeah, I can see why they had difficulty with the character: She's just too powerful. But of a Superman issue. Clever explanation on why she didn't turn up sooner: Big universe out there and Earth has you lot. But yeah, they had to go full on Poochie really to get her out of there (Note: Captain Marvel died on the way back to her home planet).

Victor

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Loved the quill and Thor "who's the captain now" scene ..

Hilarious.

They should have used that as a mid-credit scene.

Uncharted wrote: »

So,ancient gods,who have lived for millenia,are at a massive loss of power,because they gain 4or5 stone weight? Nah. No chance.

He wasn't exactly in great mental shape.

It was a lazy plot device to install Iron man front and centre as the saviour. (Which was inevitable,I don't know anyone who didn't already know the outcome for Stark prior to seeing AE).

I didn't know. I'n not sure if some people knowing he was out of contract would be important for that.

Riddle101

When I first saw the scene where Captain Marvel arrives for the big battle at the end and Thano's fleet is looking up at the sky at some unknown enemy I thought it was going to be a big surprise like the Nova Corp fleet arriving. Something that would have been unexpected but totally awesome to see because Thanos destroyed Xandar before Infinity War which we didn't get to see, but i'd imagine that there were probably survivors.

Drumpot

Saw it again and still not sure how I feel about it. 7-10 still feels fair. I think noisy people don’t help also in convinced the sound was a millisecond behind the visual.

One thing I noticed was Tony being a bit confused when his dad said his wife was pregnant(in the lift). Almost like the date didn’t match up with what Tony thought or something like that. Not sure if that’s an opening for something else maybe?

Also makes a difference when you are at a screening with people who get all the jokes and the nods. The Crowd today were more casual viewers who didn’t get some of the nods like the Cap in the lift with hydra or even the Cap v Cap “yeh I know”!!!

Unearthly

The box office numbers are incredible

I think it will catch Avatar

kerplun k

Wowzers, 1.2bl over a weekend.

Enzokk

alchemist33 wrote: »

On a minor point, I didn't get Thor giving the keys of Asgard to Valkyrie, and telling her she was a leader. The first time we saw her she was like alcoThor, doing a bit of bounty hunting between binges, to cope with a life-shattering defeat. Since then she stepped up but until the big battle she seemed to be just fishing and farming with the rest of them in Scotland.

Or I'm just still confused about how one of the Valkyries got to be called Valkyrie. Were they all called Valkyrie or has she the name as a nickname only?

You can infer that when she says Thor only comes down to resupply his beer when he has run out someone has been in charge and it was most likely her. Seeing that all warriors were killed in Ragnarok she was the only fighter left and thus probably took a leading role. I don't think there was 10 minutes to add this in to explain it though.

martingriff

Riddle101 wrote: »

When I first saw the scene where Captain Marvel arrives for the big battle at the end and Thano's fleet is looking up at the sky at some unknown enemy I thought it was going to be a big surprise like the Nova Corp fleet arriving. Something that would have been unexpected but totally awesome to see because Thanos destroyed Xandar before Infinity War which we didn't get to see, but i'd imagine that there were probably survivors.

Nova Corp will either be GOTG 3 of Captain Marvel sequel when we get a more space problem

Slydice

kerplun k wrote: »

Wowzers, 1.2bl over a weekend.

:eek: Looks like they hadn't added the USA numbers when I was posting!

Up to $1209 Million now

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

Slydice wrote: »

$1 Billion and Sunday hasn't even been counted!

Day 4: $1015 Million
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

dudara

Saw it this morning in IMAX 3D. We re-watched IW last night in anticipation.

Have to admit that it hit me emotionally harder than I had expected and I’m still feeling a bit wobbly afterwards. I think it was a fitting conclusion to the current series of films, while also paving the way for the next generation. Really enjoyed the scenes from prior films but told with new angles & interactions.

Yes, there were some plot holes, and there will always be the frustration at the flip-flopping of power levels. But comics have always done that to make the story work. But overall, the 2 hours, 50 minutes flew by for me.

NuMarvel

Unearthly wrote: »

The box office numbers are incredible

I think it will catch Avatar

They have creams that can cure that now.

#SorryNotSorry

micks_address

Unearthly wrote: »

The box office numbers are incredible

I think it will catch Avatar

I reckon 3 billion after all told..will put it number 1.. 5 billion plus between it and infinity wars..

Amazing how many marvel movies in top 12

kerplun k

I wanna see a film with Cap bringing back mjolnir and the infinity stones. I’d say the meeting with Red Skull was interesting

Overheal

Nailed it

https://youtu.be/HRqsC4UuY_A?t=353