SLAR

PureClareGold

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Jeez man. Get your head out of the sand. Seriously.

Yes, there are issues with the current system. But you're painting the new one like it's going to revolutionise things. It's not. It's watered down. It's unclear. It's deliberately vague. It's under funded, under thought. It's long term cost saving. That's the ultimate aim here.

You're literally the only teacher, other than those on the pdst, who say it's any use. It's going to be a massive disservice to students in the future. They will be ill prepared for third and fourth level academics. The universities and employers will be looking at us asking what sort of students are we producing. Then they'll complain and we'll revert.

Have you the lotto numbers for Wed night as well seeing as you're so good at knowing the future.
There are a lot of teachers out there who find a lot of good in the new system. If you only want to hear the bad then that's all you hear about. My school is very positive about the change and its amazing how that positivity helps the students and there engagement with it. If you tell them something is worth nothing then that is what they will think. If you tell them it's of value then that's what they will believe.

km79

PureClareGold wrote: »

And that will do Billy no good at all so in the long run Billy and his principal parent will suffer with false hopes. Their loss

But it won’t make Billy any less of a person ?
And it won’t make him suffer in the long term as the CBA/Profile of Achievements doesn’t count towards any further education entry anyway ?
So what harm will it do to “Billy” ?
False hopes of what ?
Of being able to complete a word document ? A PowerPoint ?
It will make him feel good about himself and has absolutely no impact whatsoever on progression to whatever course he chooses to do

Of course it completely undermines the integrity of the whole examination system . But sure who cares

Final point . Participation in extra curricular has not been introduced in the new Junior Cycle. Many many students participated before . They didn’t so because they needed it acknowledged on a bit of paper . They did do Cos they enjoyed it . They got their recognition in many different ways.
Now we have a situation where some students will feel under pressure to participate (they may already be doing so externally and didn’t necessarily want to in school ) just so they can get a box ticked so to speak

Over and out

Chilli Con Kearney

PureClareGold wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers for Wed night as well seeing as you're so good at knowing the future.
There are a lot of teachers out there who find a lot of good in the new system. If you only want to hear the bad then that's all you hear about. My school is very positive about the change and its amazing how that positivity helps the students and there engagement with it. If you tell them something is worth nothing then that is what they will think. If you tell them it's of value then that's what they will believe.

Have I the lotto numbers? Good one. Hilarious. Nearly as funny as the farce we are engaging in.

You're deluded if you think it's going to be effective or any better than the system we had. I hope I'm wrong but I really believe this mess will be disastrous.

PureClareGold

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Have I the lotto numbers? Good one. Hilarious. Nearly as funny as the farce we are engaging in.

You're deluded if you think it's going to be effective or any better than the system we had. I hope I'm wrong but I really believe this mess will be disastrous.

Well look to the hope you have a bit more maybe and see where it takes you. You might be surprised

deiseindublin

Only people I've encountered that (say they) see the good in this farce are the being paid to deliver it.

Will be carnage when all CBAs are in in all subjects, especially now that the timetable has been changed to lucky dip. As for being concerned about student wellbeing
…......

Chilli Con Kearney

PureClareGold wrote: »

Well look to the hope you have a bit more maybe and see where it takes you. You might be surprised

It's hard to be positive about a new education program that has major portions carved out, such as science and business studies. Or to be positive about the wellbeing programme which has no structure, guidance or training for teachers. I mean seriously, put the money into badly needed counsellors in CAMHS where they can do good work, instead of pretending it is better spent in schools.

Ive had third year PTMs this year. I was telling them about the upcoming CBA. Their response? Oh we'll be busy again this year doing those, will we? While laughing. I saw CBA presentations last week which parents put together. How do I know? Because I know my students and they were using words and terms that I know they don't understand.

Hard to see many positives in this I'm afraid. Except from the PDST instructors.

solerina

The JCSP certs are available for download from tomorrow....I discussed this with my TY group last week and what did they think....... they didn’t give a damn, they have absolutely no interest in them, as far as they were concerned the JC results came in Sept and this Cert is a waste of time, so CBA, SLAR etc.....do they really matter ???? I def don’t think so at this stage anyway.

acequion

Just came across this thread this evening and found it hugely enjoyable as it so brilliantly expressed. Fair play to those posters with their no holds barred,tell it as it is perspective which so eloquently reveals the glaring truth of this farce. And then you have that one poster and you'd have to wonder if he or she is for real or has some vested interest in all this. It's such a monumental shambles that you'd have to distrust anybody so blatantly sugaring it up.

But wanna hear more stories of the farcical? My class do their AT tomorrow. And because they still haven't been issued with exam numbers I've to stick a post it on all the exam booklets for them to put their names on!

Could you actually make this stuff up! :rolleyes:

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

Just came across this thread this evening and found it hugely enjoyable as it so brilliantly expressed. Fair play to those posters with their no holds barred,tell it as it is perspective which so eloquently reveals the glaring truth of this farce. And then you have that one poster and you'd have to wonder if he or she is for real or has some vested interest in all this. It's such a monumental shambles that you'd have to distrust anybody so blatantly sugaring it up.

But wanna hear more stories of the farcical? My class do their AT tomorrow. And because they still haven't been issued with exam numbers I've to stick a post it on all the exam booklets for them to put their names on!

Could you actually make this stuff up! :rolleyes:

In my school we have our exam numbers. If your own school got their returns in on time then you should have your exam numbers. Sometimes it's easy to blame others.
No vested interest, just an ordinary teacher who is actually enjoying and valuing the change. Nothing wrong with that.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

In my school we have our exam numbers. If your own school got their returns in on time then you should have your exam numbers. Sometimes it's easy to blame others.
No vested interest, just an ordinary teacher who is actually enjoying and valuing the change. Nothing wrong with that.

Wow you should be running the country you've got it all so sussed!

Maybe if everyone in my own school like pretty much everyone in every school weren't so overworked from the sheer volume of new stuff flung at them they'd manage time better!! Time is finite after all!

You're about the only cheerleader of this disaster I've come across on line or off line and the cynic in me just doesn't buy it,sorry!

paddybarry

I was skeptical about the new junior cycle but I can see lots of merit in it. Initially I thought the content of my own subject (Business Studies) was very dumbed down.

However, the objective of the new Junior Cycle is to move away from an exam focus to one of developing skills. It requires a different approach to teaching. Now, I've been teaching the guts of 18 years and change is not easy but as professionals we need to be able to adapt.

Instead of class tests, we now must give a mix of individual and group projects as assignments. I can definitely see the benefit of this for students. The skills they learn will stand to them for the rest of their life.

Overall, there are a lot more pros than cons in my opinion.

acequion

paddybarry wrote: »

I was skeptical about the new junior cycle but I can see lots of merit in it. Initially I thought the content of my own subject (Business Studies) was very dumbed down.

However, the objective of the new Junior Cycle is to move away from an exam focus to one of developing skills. It requires a different approach to teaching. Now, I've been teaching the guts of 18 years and change is not easy but as professionals we need to be able to adapt.

Instead of class tests, we now must give a mix of individual and group projects as assignments. I can definitely see the benefit of this for students. The skills they learn will stand to them for the rest of their life.

Overall, there are a lot more pros than cons in my opinion.

In your opinion what skills are they learning?

While there are some merits in the new course, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages imo and the whole thing is a study on how not to implement something.

And the few merits I see could have been incorporated into the old course, without this mania for outcomes based education which has at least as many and possibly more critics than fans. And without the huge volume of extra work on hard pressed teachers.

I'm also not convinced about project work. There are all sorts of creative assignments kids can do which will teach them valuable skills. And things like pair and group work can easily be incorporated into the old system as I would do it quite frequently in senior cycle.

So with the exception of the oral presentation, which in my subject,English, is good for them, I'd like to hear what these skills are that we haven't always taught them?

Icsics

An update...our SLARs are starting in school time, but it took 2 emails from Kieran Christie to sort it out!

deiseindublin

Fair dues to KC, I'd be surprised and delighted with that level of backup.

Inspector Coptoor

They MUST start within school time.

A 2 hour SLAR should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out.

PureClareGold

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

They MUST start within school time.

A 2 hour SLAR should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out.

We do block supervision for our end of year exams and did our SLAR during one of those when we were all off. Is that not allowed now so if the union are saying they should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out. The flexibility suits my setting. If it's being dictated to us by the union then I end up worse off

km79

PureClareGold wrote: »

We do block supervision for our end of year exams and did our SLAR during one of those when we were all off. Is that not allowed now so if the union are saying they should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out. The flexibility suits my setting. If it's being dictated to us by the union then I end up worse off

Have given you the benefit of the doubt until now
Won’t be seeing anymore of your posts now

Inspector Coptoor

PureClareGold wrote: »

We do block supervision for our end of year exams and did our SLAR during one of those when we were all off. Is that not allowed now so if the union are saying they should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out. The flexibility suits my setting. If it's being dictated to us by the union then I end up worse off

If all of your SLAR is inside school time when students are doing exams - then you’re better off.
CLEARLY.

Icsics

PureClareGold wrote: »

We do block supervision for our end of year exams and did our SLAR during one of those when we were all off. Is that not allowed now so if the union are saying they should be 40 mins in and 80 mins out. The flexibility suits my setting. If it's being dictated to us by the union then I end up worse off

The union are not saying that, the union are saying they must start within school time. However, Principals seem to be taking an alternative view & pick & choose which bits of circulars they like, along with their defacto union the JMB.

PureClareGold

Icsics wrote: »

The union are not saying that, the union are saying they must start within school time. However, Principals seem to be taking an alternative view & pick & choose which bits of circulars they like, along with their defacto union the JMB.

Very generalised sensational statement like many made on the reform. Our principal is a very approachable person who believes in us as professionals and also supports the much needed changes in our education system.

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

Very generalised sensational statement like many made on the reform. Our principal is a very approachable person who believes in us as professionals and also supports the much needed changes in our education system.

I don't often have great reason to thank my lucky stars. But I sure am thanking them big time that I don't work with you lot.

Thank god for unions and for reasonable people who support workers and their rights.

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

I don't often have great reason to thank my lucky stars. But I sure am thanking them big time that I don't work with you lot.

Thank god for unions and for reasonable people who support workers and their rights.

I feel sorry for you. I work in a very innovative school, with great support from management. Teachers support each other professionally and challenge each other to improve our craft. And all of this for the benefit of the students we care for. I can tell you that by doing so our wellbeing is catered for in many many ways. Students respect us, some still challenge but the culture in our school doesn't allow this get out of hand and we are so supported by management. If we are struggling for whatever reasons they may take our last class to let us get home earlier. They care, we care and that is how we work together. We take on this job knowing the workload. If we thought we could keep doing the same thing every year for 30 plus years without having to change then we are deluded. I love my job and find it very fulfilling

evolving_doors

PureClareGold wrote: »

I feel sorry for you. I work in a very innovative school, with great support from management. Teachers support each other professionally and challenge each other to improve our craft. And all of this for the benefit of the students we care for. I can tell you that by doing so our wellbeing is catered for in many many ways. Students respect us, some still challenge but the culture in our school doesn't allow this get out of hand and we are so supported by management. If we are struggling for whatever reasons they may take our last class to let us get home earlier. They care, we care and that is how we work together. We take on this job knowing the workload. If we thought we could keep doing the same thing every year for 30 plus years without having to change then we are deluded. I love my job and find it very fulfilling

But if you were told that you had to do SLARs starting after school, and had kids to look after would you be ok with it. I.e. pay the extra childcare.
Also the given situation was that the teacher COULD do the SLARS during school time, but the principal was insisting that other parties with no involvement should attend so it would have to be after school.



The question also still remains unanswered . Is the school allocated extra sub cover for slars ?

Icsics

Extract from advice issued by JMB :

7. The Department is seeking to achieve an agreed position on the use
of teacher professional time for SLAR meetings with the teacher unions
and there is ongoing discussion and advocacy by the management bodies
in this regard. In the interim, as was the case last year, school
management will be required to employ scheduling arrangements which
may require, for example, drawing on the Supervision & Substitution
Scheme for one class period of the 2-hour SLAR meeting.

8. There may equally be time availability where, for example, house
examinations or other school events are underway. During these times,
SLAR meetings could be scheduled without impacting on class contact
time."

acequion

PureClareGold wrote: »

I feel sorry for you. I work in a very innovative school, with great support from management. Teachers support each other professionally and challenge each other to improve our craft. And all of this for the benefit of the students we care for. I can tell you that by doing so our wellbeing is catered for in many many ways. Students respect us, some still challenge but the culture in our school doesn't allow this get out of hand and we are so supported by management. If we are struggling for whatever reasons they may take our last class to let us get home earlier. They care, we care and that is how we work together. We take on this job knowing the workload. If we thought we could keep doing the same thing every year for 30 plus years without having to change then we are deluded. I love my job and find it very fulfilling

You know what PureClareGold, I'm highly suspicious about everything you post. It's just all too good to be true. It's like your whole school is an extended version of the Von Trapps with ye all odlaying through dewy mountains in some wonderful brave new world. Where is this utopia?

1. Nothing ever in your posts about the decade long barrage of attacks on teachers.
2. Nothing in your posts about our huge class sizes.
3. Nothing in your posts about how Irish teachers have the highest class contact hours in the EU.
4. And nothing in your posts about how these so called reforms were bulldozed through despite all of the above difficulties and despite a majority of teachers in the largest second level union not being on board with them.
5. Nothing in your posts about the disastrous implementation. Everything basically being made up as we go along,with, for example, the Dept deciding at the last minute this year to extend the English CBAs.
6. Nothing in your posts about the grossly inadequate training for your great new JC.
7. Nothing in your posts about the huge volume of older teachers retiring well before retirement age, basically cutting their losses and out the gap because they just can't cope with the unreasonable workload.
8. And nothing in your posts about the huge volume of extra work on teachers, from CP hours,to all these new initiatives and reforms.
9. Nothing in your posts about how many teachers are trying to juggle this with an extra curricular activity or two which they give for free to their students.
10. And nothing in your posts about low pay and inadequate sick leave in a job which is causing more and more people to be sick, not to mention the injustice to the NQTs

It is against this backdrop that the rest of us posters speak the truth about how difficult it has become to work in second levels schools in Ireland, yet still go in every day and do our very best because actually we also care very much about our students. Your school seems to be up there in the dewy mountains.

Feel sorry for me all you like, I could say the same about you!

PureClareGold

acequion wrote: »

You know what PureClareGold, I'm highly suspicious about everything you post. It's just all too good to be true. It's like your whole school is an extended version of the Von Trapps with ye all odlaying through dewy mountains in some wonderful brave new world. Where is this utopia?

1. Nothing ever in your posts about the decade long barrage of attacks on teachers.
2. Nothing in your posts about our huge class sizes.
3. Nothing in your posts about how Irish teachers have the highest class contact hours in the EU.
4. And nothing in your posts about how these so called reforms were bulldozed through despite all of the above difficulties and despite a majority of teachers in the largest second level union not being on board with them.
5. Nothing in your posts about the disastrous implementation. Everything basically being made up as we go along,with, for example, the Dept deciding at the last minute this year to extend the English CBAs.
6. Nothing in your posts about the grossly inadequate training for your great new JC.
7. Nothing in your posts about the huge volume of older teachers retiring well before retirement age, basically cutting their losses and out the gap because they just can't cope with the unreasonable workload.
8. And nothing in your posts about the huge volume of extra work on teachers, from CP hours,to all these new initiatives and reforms.
9. Nothing in your posts about how many teachers are trying to juggle this with an extra curricular activity or two which they give for free to their students.
10. And nothing in your posts about low pay and inadequate sick leave in a job which is causing more and more people to be sick, not to mention the injustice to the NQTs

It is against this backdrop that the rest of us posters speak the truth about how difficult it has become to work in second levels schools in Ireland, yet still go in every day and do our very best because actually we also care very much about our students. Your school seems to be up there in the dewy mountains.

Feel sorry for me all you like, I could say the same about you!

And if I went into work everyday thinking all those things I'd hate it. Luckily I don't and I'm happy. Nothing wrong with seeing the others point of view. There are a lot of issues in Irish education. I'm lucky where I am and appreciate it. Often feel bullied here for being positive and genuine about something I do find good. And as I teach the students you should never be afraid to stand up to bullies

amacca

PureClareGold wrote: »

And if I went into work everyday thinking all those things I'd hate it. Luckily I don't and I'm happy. Nothing wrong with seeing the others point of view. There are a lot of issues in Irish education. I'm lucky where I am and appreciate it. Often feel bullied here for being positive and genuine about something I do find good. And as I teach the students you should never be afraid to stand up to bullies

For god sake this is a forum for debate not a school yard.....posters are not bullying you...

Its simply that not many of them agree with your points of view and they are entitled to put theirs across without being accused of bullying imo

You might stop to consider why many of them don't seem to agree with your point of view and how damaging these reforms might be to the system given that most of the teachers that post here do not seem to agree with them. I would imagine its at least somewhat of a representative sample given conversations Ive had with colleagues that still work in the system etc

Being in the minority isn't being bullied......its an opportunity to stop, reflect and consider the possibility (no matter how hard you might find it to accept) that not everyone shares the same opinion as you and maybe just maybe they may have a valid point......that would be the positive, constructive thing to do......very much in line with the ethos of this new JC btw

PureClareGold

amacca wrote: »

For god sake this is a forum for debate not a school yard.....posters are not bullying you...

Its simply that not many of them agree with your points of view and they are entitled to put theirs across without being accused of bullying imo

You might stop to consider why many of them don't seem to agree with your point of view and how damaging these reforms might be to the system given that most of the teachers that post here do not seem to agree with them. I would imagine its at least somewhat of a representative sample given conversations Ive had with colleagues that still work in the system etc

Being in the minority isn't being bullied......its an opportunity to stop, reflect and consider the possibility (no matter how hard you might find it to accept) that not everyone shares the same opinion as you and maybe just maybe they may have a valid point......that would be the positive, constructive thing to do......very much in line with the ethos of this new JC btw

And if you turn all that around its makes the same sense. I accept that I'm in the minority but that doesn't make my beliefs any bit less. Maybe just maybe I have some valid points also

SligoBrewer

PureClareGold wrote: »

And if you turn all that around its makes the same sense. I accept that I'm in the minority but that doesn't make my beliefs any bit less. Maybe just maybe I have some valid points also

Maybe you don't.

I've been calling out your shtick for months, if not years and what is apparent is your rose tinted spectacle view of the Junior Cycle is ridiculous to the point where you want to do SLAR meetings outside of school time because you hate unions so much?

idk man, this course, the methods of assessment and the specification for my subject is a disaster and the knock on is that I genuinely can't be sure if my students will be able to take the LC subject that I teach. The vagueness of the specification is atrocious and will never be reviewed?

But look, i'm not looking to move up the chain in the NCCA/JCT/DES or internally so I can call this out for what it is, an utter disaster for Leaving Certificate and the learning of my students. My classroom was already a social constructivist one, I didn't need the DES and the NCCA to strip back my subject to the bare bones.

PureClareGold

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Maybe you don't.

I've been calling out your shtick for months, if not years and what is apparent is your rose tinted spectacle view of the Junior Cycle is ridiculous to the point where you want to do SLAR meetings outside of school time because you hate unions so much?

idk man, this course, the methods of assessment and the specification for my subject is a disaster and the knock on is that I genuinely can't be sure if my students will be able to take the LC subject that I teach. The vagueness of the specification is atrocious and will never be reviewed?

But look, i'm not looking to move up the chain in the NCCA/JCT/DES or internally so I can call this out for what it is, an utter disaster for Leaving Certificate and the learning of my students. My classroom was already a social constructivist one, I didn't need the DES and the NCCA to strip back my subject to the bare bones.

Such bitterness. The only reason someone could see good in the reform is if they want promotion!! We really need to look at ourselves and our bitterness towards people who see the good in this. No wonder no one ye know is willing to speak in favour of it. Imagine the backlash and derision they would receive from ye.