Do you work? ... In work?

Wildly Boaring

zephyro wrote: »

From Revenue (backed up by several employment law cases). If OP is told when and where he has to work, legally speaking he's highly likely to be a fixed-term employee, not a self-employed contractor, regardless of what his contract says or how he is classified by the employer (employment law takes precedence over both).



They can't legally withhold payment from you on this basis if they're classifying you as a contractor. If they did, you'd have an easy case against them via both the Department of Employment Affairs and the WRC. However it'd obviously be better if you pointed this out to them first so you get what you want (i.e. work from home unless you need to be in the office) rather than going through the legal process.

Ha ha. Yep contractors always in a nice position pointing things out to s company.

Don't let door hit you on way out..........

zephyro

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Ha ha. Yep contractors always in a nice position pointing things out to s company.

Don't let door hit you on way out..........

Would be an expensive mistake for a company to do this if a contractor knew about their legal rights (which unfortunately pretty much none of them do), unless of course they meet more of the criteria for self-employment.

AndrewJRenko

zephyro wrote: »

From Revenue (backed up by several employment law cases). If OP is told when and where he has to work, legally speaking he's highly likely to be a fixed-term employee, not a self-employed contractor, regardless of what his contract says or how he is classified by the employer (employment law takes precedence over both).

That's a bit of a leap that you've made, from one of 13 possible factors to being an absolute requirement.

Regardless, that doesn't set out how they can or cannot treat contractors. It sets out the tests for determining whether they are a contractor or not.

AndrewJRenko

zephyro wrote: »

Would be an expensive mistake for a company to do this if a contractor knew about their legal rights (which unfortunately pretty much none of them do), unless of course they meet more of the criteria for self-employment.

In this particular case, where they have no work for the contractor, the company would be on fairly solid ground in terminating the contract.

zephyro

zephyro wrote: »

From Revenue (backed up by several employment law cases). If OP is told when and where he has to work, legally speaking he's highly likely to be a fixed-term employee, not a self-employed contractor, regardless of what his contract says or how he is classified by the employer (employment law takes precedence over both).



They can't legally withhold payment from you on this basis if they're classifying you as a contractor. If they did, you'd have an easy case against them via both the Department of Employment Affairs and the WRC. However it'd obviously be better if you pointed this out to them first so you get what you want (i.e. work from home unless you need to be in the office) rather than going through the legal process.

late entrant for worst advice seen on boards, 2018

.G.

Imagine getting paid 625 quid a day and moaning about it.

superg

superg wrote: »

Imagine getting paid 625 quid a day and moaning about it.

Did you even bother to read the thread? OP is not moaning about his job. He can stay or he can go and sounds highly employable. He was just curious about whether others get well paid and feel completely stagnated & unchallenged in their jobs. Not everybody works for the basic minimum wage, or even the average industrial wage.

Some people are extremely well paid for what they do and why would you resent that ? It’s their field of expertise, not mine or yours, so good for them. Why the begrudgery ?

I myself work (contract) in a job that is unbelievable unchallenging . It’s well paid (not €625 per day league! ) but very little room to progress . I have paid sick leave, paid holidays, increments . I ask myself every week should I leave and get something more challenging, with more job satisfaction and with a route to progression , or just sit there take my money and vegetate. At the moment I’m studying with a view to leaving in 2019.

As a previous poster said there’s more to a job than money.

The J Stands for Jay

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

Until I lose the wage and have to interview against the coders who have been pushing themselves!

Could you not manage to save up enough cash to not need to ever work again? That'd end your worries for getting a new job.

zephyro

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's a bit of a leap that you've made, from one of 13 possible factors to being an absolute requirement.

Not making a leap or saying it's an absolute requirement, however if OP is required to be in their office 9-5, he already meets 4 of the criteria for employment (1, 9, 10, 11). Having worked in a very similar situation and company, I would also be confident that he meets at least another 5 of them too.

@OP how many of the criteria for employment do you meet?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Regardless, that doesn't set out how they can or cannot treat contractors. It sets out the tests for determining whether they are a contractor or not.

So if the Department/WRC/Revenue applied these tests and determined that "contractors" at a company were actually employees, could the company then continue to treat them in exactly the same way or not?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In this particular case, where they have no work for the contractor, the company would be on fairly solid ground in terminating the contract.

Very solid ground if he actually meets more of the criteria for contracting, however if he doesn't they would be in a very difficult situation if he chose to pursue it.

Avatar MIA

We spend approx half our time (ignoring sleep) at work and it really is a waste of time being bored out of your mind. It sounds great until you experience it a prolonged period of time. That's how some of us discovered chat forums

So, genuinely feel your pain OP.

Up-skill and job search for your ideal role.

Good luck.

ryo.jodeci

zephyro wrote: »

@OP how many of the criteria for employment do you meet?

Not sure about that zephyro. I won't be taking anyone to court for the sake of keeping myself occupied/up to speed. It's a relatively small city and as a self employed contractor my future does depends (among other things) on referrals and people thinking about me when opportunities come up. I need to be a person who makes the lives my employers easier, not more difficult! If I'm struggling to bring in a laptop to work on side projects in front of them, I'd certainly struggle to bring them through a legal system

Can you imagine the headlines ? "Man on 150k brings employer to court after getting bored". I might as well move to Mexico now!

s7ryf3925pivug

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'll check it out. Not sure if I can access it on my work pc, would be great if I could.

It’s good practice for whiteboard interviews, and is used by some places as part of the job application process too.

ryo.jodeci

McGaggs wrote: »

Could you not manage to save up enough cash to not need to ever work again? That'd end your worries for getting a new job.

After healthcare, sick days, basic pension, it leaves me about 2k euro better off per month than my peers in permanent employment. It a great for building up stability, but a long way from retiring. However, part time down the line might be an option. With AI, I feel a normal work week for people will be 3/4 days for the same money, in the next 10/15 years depending on their industry.

zephyro

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

I won't be taking anyone to court for the sake of keeping myself occupied/up to speed.

Of course you're not actually going to take them to court and I'm not suggesting you do, however legitimate independent contractors are entitled to control where they work once the work gets done, and availing of this solved my issue and would presumably solve yours too.

Dr.Sanchez

It's the same with me OP, but I'm doing a part time postgraduate and managing to smash it out while at work! Lol

Lumen

Being paid well to do nothing is quite stressful unless you have a particular personality type. Your skills will atrophy, and even worse you may get used to it.

It's much better to be paid well to be productive. You will feel happier.

Try and find something useful to do. Seek out hard problems to solve, but try to avoid doing things that embarrass the people you work with.

Think about your next job and do things that you will be proud to talk about.

I've been running a business in this industry for a long time. The rewards vary over time. Don't take your current situation for granted.

HamSarris

These threads are really interesting as I’ve suspected for a while that there’s a bubble in the tech industry. When there’s so much money floating around the companies no longer care if they’re getting value for money. They’re just happy if there’s a guy around to solve a low frequency problem. It would be like paying a mechanic to be constantly on call in case my car breaks down.

Cases like this match up with a macro-economic data. The NASDAQ hit a peak but is now taking a nose dive. I really feel sorry for the thousands of people who switched careers into IT, attracted by the bubble. They’re starting out on bad wages and will be unemployable when the next recession hits. Others like the OP have got the maximum out of the bubble and should be able to stay employed in a recession.

The OP’s issue is really a first world problem, although one which I have some sympathy for. As human’s we have a natural motivation towards energy conservation (i.e., laziness), and the OP’s working environment is simply reinforcing this. It would be a classic example of a bull**** job – a employee does nothing but his manager also does nothing so convinces his bosses that his employee is doing something.

I’m not going to provide advice on career development as I think the work environment is so demotivating the OP will struggle to get anything extra done. I would suggest though that any extra training should be made explicit with the company as I think the OP will be too anxious or guilty to do it at work.

And that brings me to these emotions. The OP may feel a sense of anxiety about one day being found out. The second emotion is a sense of guilt that he is overpaid. When most people are stressed out working in their jobs to make 40k and I’m doing nothing to make 150k, it can feel quite unsettling. I think it’s important to recognise these emotions as they’ll tend to leave you in a demotivated stated if they lurk around in your unconscious.

Jim2007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Surely somebody in that company would question the contracting cost. Pretty good money I must say.

It is usually considered a retainer in these situations. The cost of not having them available when you need them is higher than just paying them to sit around all week.

This situation is common in banks for instance where the losses can run into tens of millions if say a trading system is down for a few hours. I'm in the same situation, weeks of nothing followed by 4 or 5 hours of sheer terror as the losses clock up and then back nothing again.

marketty wrote: »

You must have been hired on the basis of having great skills, couldn't you apply them to personal projects during 'working' hours and keep your skills sharp that way while building your own side gig?

Usually theses are secure environments where you can't do much other than read the paper and have a coffee.

ryo.jodeci

Jim2007 wrote: »

Usually theses are secure environments where you can't do much other than read the paper and have a coffee.

Yes, I don't even have a personal drive. Anything I save down is in a folder accessible by anyone in the company.

Mrs OBumble

Can you take in a laptop and access the web using your own mobile broadband?

ryo.jodeci

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Can you take in a laptop and access the web using your own mobile broadband?

Yes we were talking about that. It's just that I sit right next to my manager who seems to live in a pretend world that we're all busy. Being on BBC is fine, but actually taking in a laptop and using it in front of her could look like I'm trying to shake her out of a fantasy world she's in!

maninasia

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

100% agree. For example, when family life comes along, depending on the shape of the business account, I could see myself taking that 50% cut and going permanent. Small things like mortgages/healthcare/benefits like working from home the odd day are all permanent staff features. I'd hate to go back to appraisals and goal setting though:pac:

How much does a lot of that stuff matter ?
Healthcare ? I assume you may mean private health insurance such as VHI which a lot of salaried workers pay for anyway.

Work from home , some salaried workers can do that, a lot cannot.

You really see yourself taking a 50% cut. I wouldn't. I've always been a salaried employee but changed employer fairly often, average four years or so.

It's obvious to me though that you would be happier in a place that utilises your skillset, maybe gives you a promotion and recognizes your contribution, develop better social relations with coworkers and in that sense, a salaried position would make a lot of sense.

Being in a salaried position does not mean all these things will happen, but there's definitely a higher chance for you to enjoy your working day. And if that happens and you have job security and a decent wage, why not...

Keyzer

Tell me how wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that any company is paying circa €2.4M/annum (15 resources + manager @€;625/day) to have those people do as little as you say they do.

You'd find it even harder to believe how much of this goes on in the private, public and semi-state companies. Its madness but it happens a lot.

Sycamore Tree

This is surprisingly common in IT - Contractors with nothing to do.

They think they need a Python resource so milk it as long as you can. Swings and roundabouts.

600 per pay is also not unusual for IT contracting with sought after skills.

Avatar MIA

Keyzer wrote: »

You'd find it even harder to believe how much of this goes on in the private, public and semi-state companies. Its madness but it happens a lot.

As long as something is in budget it's not visible Who and how the budget is set in the first place is another matter.

ryo.jodeci

Maybe since the recession, departments in companies have found it hard to get a slice of the budget from the seniors. Once they have it, they do everything to hold on to it.

Sunflower 27

Prior to the recession I worked in an industry and earned decent money. Following redundancy I got a degree in another area and work part time for myself (not earning much, in fairness I am not exactly pushing myself as I have another job with the HSE. This job required a year's training and a few years experience behind me to secure. It doesn't pay great, but my job satisfaction is huge (I'm in a hospital).

I could go back to my previous career and earn more but I can't give up what I have now. I work hard, but I finish every day knowing I've made a difference. I wouldn't give that up. I never had this in my previous career (earned far more for much less work).

Some may think I'm weird, but that's OK. I'm happy

irish_goat

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

Yes we were talking about that. It's just that I sit right next to my manager who seems to live in a pretend world that we're all busy. Being on BBC is fine, but actually taking in a laptop and using it in front of her could look like I'm trying to shake her out of a fantasy world she's in!

Bring a laptop in, stick it under your desk and use your work computer as an external monitor.

The J Stands for Jay

ryo.jodeci wrote: »

After healthcare, sick days, basic pension, it leaves me about 2k euro better off per month than my peers in permanent employment. It a great for building up stability, but a long way from retiring. However, part time down the line might be an option. With AI, I feel a normal work week for people will be 3/4 days for the same money, in the next 10/15 years depending on their industry.

I'm not really looking at what you're getting compared to someone else, I'm looking at what you're getting compared to the amount you spend. If you could live on €40k a year, you'd be set in no time.

The J Stands for Jay

McGaggs wrote: »

I'm not really looking at what you're getting compared to someone else, I'm looking at what you're getting compared to the amount you spend. If you could live on €40k a year, you'd be set in no time.

8 years would probably see you retired.