Is building up the solution to the housing crisis?

MarkHenderson

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No, those places are privately owned AFAIK. And anyway let them at it. The bigger issue is allowing social housing in Dublin within M50. OK I get that HAP accommodates working people too.

But I am talking about the provision of social housing which has its criteria too let it be said. And whether working or not, you can be allocated a property within the m50.

There really should be a rule that if you are not working you cannot avail of this within the M50 ring.

I don't know why this idea is so controversial. Maybe someone will elaborate.

What the hell are you talking about? The majority of people in social housing are working.

alexmalalex

The problem is not just the size of the housing stock, but the composition.

People in this country stay in their house until they die, or enter a fair deal scheme. They continue to live in a four bedroom house even after their children move out. The problem is compounded by the fact that people are now living into their late 80s and even 90s.

In the US, most people will downside to a condo, or will move to a retirement community when they reach certain age. Actually, if this happened, it would take strain off our healthcare.

The problem is also greed, greed, and more fcuking greed on the part of property owners, banks, and developers. There is no incentive to fix the problem because of our legislators are property owners.

buried

Set house prices for what they actually cost to build, not where they are. Its simple, the raw materials for a house cost X amount, let the builder add their % mark-up for the work, there is the price of the product. Same as any other product. As long as homes are viewed as a chaotic fluctuating monetary piggybank property investment gambles nothing will change.

Spanish Eyes

MarkHenderson wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about? The majority of people in social housing are working.

OK, no worries.

The slightly bigger problem might be those who are not working.

There are lots of people in inner city flats who contribute nada.

Should be for people who are working and contributing. But most of it is hereditary tenancies.

MarkHenderson

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, no worries.

The slightly bigger problem might be those who are not working.

There are lots of people in inner city flats who contribute nada.

Should be for people who are working and contributing. But most of it is hereditary tenancies.

I agree if you haven't worked in years you should be moved to ballygobackwards put please let's stop with this thing that everyone in social housing is a layabout.

alexmalalex

buried wrote: »

Set house prices for what they actually cost to build, not where they are. Its simple, the raw materials for a house cost X amount, let the builder add their % mark-up for the work, there is the price of the product. Same as any other product. As long as homes are viewed as a chaotic fluctuating monetary piggybank property investment gambles nothing will change.

But this wouldn't suit the greedy property developers....

The greedy real estate agents in their 191 BMWs....

The greedy bankers and their exorbitant interest rates...

and most all the greedy and corrupt government

They have no interest or intention of solving this problem. Leo said it last night - if you can't afford to live in Dublin fcuk off outside to Laois or the midlands.

Wheeliebin30

MarkHenderson wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about? The majority of people in social housing are working.

Yes exactly.

In very good jobs that they could easily pay a proper mortgage instead of 40 euro a week for life.

That’s the problem!!!

They should have been moved on once their income went up instead they got to buy houses at 60% discount.

And here we are wondering why there is a housing shortage?

MarkHenderson

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a click of fingers exactly. FG have ignored the housing shortage since 2012. They were very slow to see what everyone else could see. They reacted at a snails pace. This is the first year with any real building.

FG have been in power for years now and it's obvious they have little interest in fixing the housing crisis. They pander to and are the party of the rich and well heeled and tbh i have no problem with that as that's their base but it grinds my gears when they put idiots like Eoin "roll my sleeves up" Murphy out to pretend they care. Don't insult my intelligence.

Sleeper12

MarkHenderson wrote:

What the hell are you talking about? The majority of people in social housing are working.

Some see people in social housing as a lower class human species. They don't see them as equals or someone that should have equal rights.

Next thing someone will post how many million the council is owed in rent as if that justifies something or that it implies that everyone in socal housing is behind on rent.

It seems that the Dail bar has to write off politicians tabs on an annual basis. This doesn't mean that all politicians don't pay their bills though

Spanish Eyes

MarkHenderson wrote: »

I agree if you haven't worked in years you should be moved to ballygobackwards put please let's stop with this thing that everyone in social housing is a layabout.

I know you might not be referring to me (maybe!), But the so called layabouts are living in prime areas and they know it.

Imagine if they were allocated housing outside M50 if they don't work and don't care. Well why should they care if they have a nice house/apartment if there is no policy about this and no one questions it.

Wheeliebin30

MarkHenderson wrote: »

FG have been in power for years now and it's obvious they have little interest in fixing the housing crisis. They pander to and are the party of the rich and well heeled and tbh i have no problem with that as that's their base but it grinds my gears when they put idiots like Eoin "roll my sleeves up" Murphy out to pretend they care. Don't insult my intelligence.

Who’s the rich you are talking about??

MarkHenderson

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes exactly.

In very good jobs that they could easily pay a proper mortgage instead of 40 euro a week for life.

That’s the problem!!!

They should have been moved on once their income went up instead they got to buy houses at 60% discount.

And here we are wondering why there is a housing shortage?

You'd have to be earning peanuts to be paying 40 euro a week. Don't be talking pony. I grew up in social housing and know plenty who still live in social housing who pay 120 a week and more on very small wages like 25k a year.

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Some see people in social housing as a lower class human species. They don't see them as equals or someone that should have equal rights.

Next thing someone will post how many million the council is owed in rent as if that justifies something or that it implies that everyone in socal housing is behind on rent.

It seems that the Dail bar has to write off politicians tabs on an annual basis. This doesn't mean that all politicians don't pay their bills though

You think 60 million owed to taxpayers is not worth talking about?

MarkHenderson

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I know you might not be referring to me (maybe!), But the so called layabouts are living in prime areas and they know it.

Imagine if they were allocated housing outside M50 if they don't work and don't care. Well why should they care if they have a nice house/apartment if there is no policy about this and no one questions it.

If they don't work they are layabouts. Sling them out and leave the housing for those who contribute.

Wheeliebin30

MarkHenderson wrote: »

You'd have to be earning peanuts to be paying 40 euro a week. Don't be talking pony. I grew up in social housing and know plenty who still live in social housing who pay 120 a week and more on very small wages like 25k a year.

So there is people paying 40 a week!!

Thanks for clarifying that.

https://www.fm104.ie/news/housing-agency-in-homes-plegde/

55 a week.

alexmalalex

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Who’s the rich you are talking about??

Probably the ones filling Liffey Valley (pick any shopping mall) with BMWs, filling their trunk with M&S food, etc. etc.

Sleeper12

I'd love to see a bedroom tax brought in here in Ireland. It would encourage people to downsize council housing. There are thousands of OAPs in 3 bed council housing. I'd like to see tax breaks for OAPS in private housing to downsize. Possibly have no stamp duty on the smaller home when downsizing

Wheeliebin30

alexmalalex wrote: »

Probably the ones filling Liffey Valley (pick any shopping mall) with BMWs, filling their trunk with M&S food, etc. etc.

And they pay more tax than lower and middle class earners.

What’s the problem???

Is it the BMW or the m and s food I don’t follow???

MarkHenderson

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

You think 60 million owed to taxpayers is not worth talking about?

You sound like the sort who'd give out all day long about those in social housing whilst simultaneously hiding behind your mammies couch if someone brought up the banking debt interest repayments.

Funny that.

MarkHenderson

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So there is people paying 40 a week!!

Thanks for clarifying that.

https://www.fm104.ie/news/housing-agency-in-homes-plegde/

55 a week.

Okay Leo

Wheeliebin30

MarkHenderson wrote: »

You sound like the sort who'd give out all day long about those in social housing whilst simultaneously hiding behind your mammies couch if someone brought up the banking debt interest repayments.

Funny that.

Ahhhhh da bankers ay.

Sure da bankers done this so it’s ok for people to rip the bolox out of taxpayers money.

Some logic that.

pablo128

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So there is people paying 40 a week!!

Thanks for clarifying that.

https://www.fm104.ie/news/housing-agency-in-homes-plegde/

55 a week.

My best mate growing up lived in a council house as did I. Both of us are from big families. My folks bought their house from the council, his didn't. When his brothers and sisters all started working, their rent combined was 400 pounds per week. In the mid 90s.

MarkHenderson

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Ahhhhh da bankers ay.

Sure da bankers done this so it’s ok for people to rip the bolox out of taxpayers money.

Some logic that.

You need to brush up on the spelling Leo

alexmalalex

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And they pay more tax than lower and middle class earners.

What’s the problem???

Is it the BMW or the m and s food I don’t follow???

The problem is that some sectors of society have it all, some have very little, and some have nothing.

And the problem is that they don't necessarily pay more tax....

Wheeliebin30

pablo128 wrote: »

My best mate growing up lived in a council house as did I. Both of us are from big families. My folks bought their house from the council, his didn't. When his brothers and sisters all started working, their rent combined was 400 pounds per week. In the mid 90s.

And i applaud this.

My parents also grew up in council houses.

But the narrative has changed nowadays.

It seems don’t work put your hand out or go to the media and get your house for life without any contribution.

Don’t deny this is what happens now or I’ll have to quote you Margaret Cash.

MarkHenderson

pablo128 wrote: »

My best mate growing up lived in a council house as did I. Both of us are from big families. My folks bought their house from the council, his didn't. When his brothers and sisters all started working, their rent combined was 400 pounds per week. In the mid 90s.

I think you are wasting your time with that one. He's too busy looking for the blue-tack for the Leo poster he ordered online. Or was it the Kylie poster

Evening gents, i'm off to the pub with my friends from social housing.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

You think 60 million owed to taxpayers is not worth talking about?

Is there no personal responsibility here? Why do the councils allow this? Why hasn't the government brought in legislation to allow wages or social welfare payments to be garnished? This can be fixed if we had a government willing to get it's hands dirty instead of taking the easy options

Spanish Eyes

Bottom line.....

There are lots of "entitled" in the inner City (and elsewhere too) laughing at us for contributing to everything for them.

OK Bud. I will just go down the mines again for you. Honestly.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

So there is people paying 40 a week!!

He didn't say that. You take what you want from people's comments don't you?

Wheeliebin30

MarkHenderson wrote: »

I think you are wasting your time with that one. He's too busy looking for the blue-tack for the Leo poster he ordered online. Or was it the Kylie poster

Evening gents, i'm off to the pub with my friends from social housing.

Yes Leo Varadkar is to blame for these morons who can’t make any sort of sensible decision in their life.

It’s all about personal responsibility.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Yes Leo Varadkar is to blame for these morons who can’t make any sort of sensible decision in their life.

What's he doing about it then?

Spanish Eyes

Very civilized thread, so far!

Good to see an exchange of views like this. Has everyone grown up or what!

pablo128

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And i applaud this.

My parents also grew up in council houses.

But the narrative has changed nowadays.

It seems don’t work puy your hand out or go to the media and get your house for life withouy any contribution.

Don’t deny this is what happens now or I’ll have to quote you Margaret Cash.

Get to fcuk. 'Well my mammy and Daddy grew up in a council house but because they don't anymore I'll rip the piss out of council tenants.' It looks like you're forgetting where you came from.

Back to your post. Give me an example of a council tenant who is exempt from paying rent, as you appear to be under the assumption that no one pays for council housing.

Wheeliebin30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What's he doing about it then?

Heard a good one today.

Can’t feed them don’t breathe them.

The government isn’t your babies daddy.

Sleeper12

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

The government isn’t your babies daddy.

You moan about everything that is wrong with this country. The government are the ones that can change these things yet for some strange reason you don't criticise them for failing to act.

alexmalalex

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Heard a good one today.

Can’t feed them don’t breathe them.

The government isn’t your babies daddy.

No, no, no...lower my tax rate so I can buy another bottle of wine for dinner every night, and can send my mediocre children to private school so they will be awarded 543 points in the leaving...

Oh...and we must keep up with the Windsors across the road and upgrade the BMW...so that we can show off how well off we are

nim1bdeh38l2cw

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd suggest leveling much of the area around the IFSC and Connolly building several new high rise towers in their place instead.

Those current residents can be offered alternative accommodation outside the core city centre area if on housing lists.

It seems crazy to me that working people have to spend hours in traffic or on public transport each day so that others who aren't working can live next door to the jobs they aren't doing.

Somewhere around Ballymun perhaps? Wouldn't that be repeating the mistakes of the past?

whisky_galore

Malaysia Aggressive Boss wrote: »

Somewhere around Ballymun perhaps? Wouldn't that be repeating the mistakes of the past?

Ballymun was state of the art of its day, people from abroad came to see the tower blocks after they were completed. Fell victim to the half assed nature of many things here, failures to put in facilities and maintenance. There are large blocks of apartments all over Europe and they all don't turn into ghettoes.

pablo128

I'm reading Ballymun, Tallaght, etc for these tower schemes. Why not Foxrock, Howth, Dundrum, nice areas that people actually want to live in?

Grab All Association

The solution to the housing shortage is to stop building family homes for social housing. It’s only encouraging women to go out and get pregnant to jump the queues. An 18 year old girl in Nenagh has 2 already and another on the way. Overheard her big mouth in the Citizens Info office “my oldest has asthma I want tiled floors and a room for the youngest who may have Down syndrome” I’m pretty sure that can be determined prenatal these days. We’re been bled dry by scum.

Wheeliebin30

Grab All Association wrote: »

The solution to the housing shortage is to stop building family homes for social housing. It’s only encouraging women to go out and get pregnant to jump the queues. An 18 year old girl in Nenagh has 2 already and another on the way. Overheard her big mouth in the Citizens Info office “my oldest has asthma I want tiled floors and a room for the youngest who may have Down syndrome” I’m pretty sure that can be determined prenatal these days. We’re been bled dry by scum.

Nah we’re not that’s all a myth we’re told.

_Kaiser_

Grab All Association wrote: »

The solution to the housing shortage is to stop building family homes for social housing. It’s only encouraging women to go out and get pregnant to jump the queues. An 18 year old girl in Nenagh has 2 already and another on the way. Overheard her big mouth in the Citizens Info office “my oldest has asthma I want tiled floors and a room for the youngest who may have Down syndrome” I’m pretty sure that can be determined prenatal these days. We’re been bled dry by scum.

On this...

One thing I've become aware of is how many of these disadvantaged kids seem to have serious medical issues from very young ages.

Is it down to their parents being not much more than kids themselves and their mother's lifestyle during pregnancy, or is it the trend these days that ANY issue must be diagnosed as a medical condition?

Given that nowadays everything negative in someone's life seems to be attributed to things that are "not their fault", I wonder if some doctors are jumping the gun with these diagnosis?

The alternative would seem to be a significant rise in serious and lifelong illnesses among children of the unemployed and that has significant implications for the health and welfare of not just those children but the country as a whole.

whisky_galore

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm reading Ballymun, Tallaght, etc for these tower schemes. Why not Foxrock, Howth, Dundrum, nice areas that people actually want to live in?

Because the people that live in nice houses in the nice areas don't want to live next to them.

Grab All Association

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On this...

One thing I've become aware of is how many of these disadvantaged kids seem to have serious medical issues from very young ages.

Is it down to their parents being not much more than kids themselves and their mother's lifestyle during pregnancy, or is it the trend these days that ANY issue must be diagnosed as a medical condition?

Given that nowadays everything negative in someone's life seems to be attributed to things that are "not their fault", I wonder if some doctors are jumping the gun with these diagnosis?

The alternative would seem to be a significant rise in serious and lifelong illnesses among children of the unemployed and that has significant implications for the health and welfare of not just those children but the country as a whole.

Lifestyles I’d imagine. Relationships with first/second cousins too.

suicide_circus

MarkHenderson wrote: »

You'd have to be earning peanuts to be paying 40 euro a week. Don't be talking pony. I grew up in social housing and know plenty who still live in social housing who pay 120 a week and more on very small wages like 25k a year.

a home for 480 per month? hang on til I tune my tiny violin

Brian?

mammajamma wrote: »

Believe me, I know plenty of people in similar situations, and its compete fookery.

Do you remember when we had a recession and there was plenty of housing to go around (even barring the stupid estates built in the middle of nowhere)?

Strange how it all filled up at the drop of a hat, isn't it?

Did you know that some of the multinationals employ as many as 70%+ non-irish people? Just one example.

Hmmmmmmmm! Maybe there is plenty of housing, but not enough housing to accommodate vast amounts of non-irish people. I cant remember where I got the number, but a couple years ago there were over 200'000 non-nationals living in Dublin? That's a big chunk (if I remember correctly)

So when someone looks around at the housing situation and feel completely dumbfounded by how it reached these proportions, there are a few join-the-dots to be considered.

What multi nationals employee 70% non Irish people?

Even if it's true, which I doubt, what do you propose we do? Load the foreigners on a boat and close down the borders?

pablo128

suicide_circus wrote: »

a home for 480 per month? hang on til I tune my tiny violin

There are people paying less on their mortgage.

NIMAN

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On this...

One thing I've become aware of is how many of these disadvantaged kids seem to have serious medical issues from very young ages.

Is it down to their parents being not much more than kids themselves and their mother's lifestyle during pregnancy, or is it the trend these days that ANY issue must be diagnosed as a medical condition?

Given that nowadays everything negative in someone's life seems to be attributed to things that are "not their fault", I wonder if some doctors are jumping the gun with these diagnosis?

The alternative would seem to be a significant rise in serious and lifelong illnesses among children of the unemployed and that has significant implications for the health and welfare of not just those children but the country as a whole.

Jez, I often had a theory but was always too afraid to post on any forum or say out loud for fear of being attacked, but I have always had an issue with this whole 'my kid has ADHD" or some other 'syndrome' to explain their bad behaviour.

If people believe that kids are born this way and its nothing to do with upbringing, how come I notice that the ratio of kids 'with issues' is a lot higher with those who don't work or depend on welfare, compared to kids of barristers, lawyers, teachers, surgeons etc?

Can't be a coincidence.

mammajamma

Brian? wrote: »

What multi nationals employee 70% non Irish people?

Even if it's true, which I doubt, what do you propose we do? Load the foreigners on a boat and close down the borders?

I cant recall where I saw the statistics (maybe a year or two ago), but they were solid and from a reputable source, but I clearly remember one of the big ones in particular had a figure of just over 70%. The reason it stuck with me is because of how shocking it was, I can understand being doubtful of it!

So a good question is where are these numbers on employment breakdown? Id be interested in seeing them again, and im sure a lot of other people would be too.

I'll tell you what though, I identify it as one of, if not the biggest, unspoken contributors to housing problems

What can be done about it, I don't know. But I DO know that just letting it continue full steam will undermine ANY effort to solve housing affordability. Just throwing hands up and pretending it doesn't exist or is unsolvable as a issue is a sure fire way to never fix this mess.

Just imagine the difference an extra 200'000 odd "spaces" would make to Dublin. Its all well and good to say that irish jobs would go with them, but whats the point of having a job when you cant afford a home/family and all your hours are simpl being converted to rent/mortgages? What happened to gainful employment, you know, where you actually get something out of it? Its a jammed system that, IMO, is damned if we have multinationals, damned if we don't.

Building more homes wont solve anything, just wait and see how it plays out. Something else needs to change!

LirW

I don't believe that high density might not be the ideal solution given Dublin's infrastructure but I think Medium density with good apartments would be a pretty good solution.
Anything up to 7 storeys is not actually that high.
My father lives on the continent in a 75sqm apartment with 2 bedrooms in a block built in the 60s which was recently refurbished. With new insulation and windows. My grandmother lives in the same block for over 40 years in a bigger 2bed unit and the apartments are honestly really really good. Amazing layouts. Every development there has 3blocks, 7 storeys with 32 units in different sizes, ranging from 1 - 3 bedrooms with basement storage. Every block has a playground and parking.
People love to live there because it's absolutely normal to have a family in apartments and the apartments cater for families.
Generally if you don't like to live in apartments, off to the countryside you go. If you'd move into the suburbs you'd also have developments catering families with blocks that have 2-3 storeys and communal greens/playgrounds.

What it needs is a developer taking the plunge building good apartments layout-wise and built quality wise. I appreciate that listening to the neighbour's water pump at night is not acceptable. I understand that most apartments here lack quality and the status quo is not encouraging people to move into apartments.
But the current way of building and housing people isn't sustainable, the city doesn't gain anything in the long run to build Semi-Ds on every patch of land they can find.
If the choice is at the moment to move to a crap apartment or a terraced/semi-D with garden, of course people want the latter.

But if there would be a good development out there suitable for families, you can raise kids there just as well and you don't have to maintain a garden. I'd have no problem ditching my current house for a good apartment, I grew up in several apartments, my family lives in apartments still.

It would just need a seasoned continental developer to build a good solution.