Christmas party accusation

jimmycrackcorm

Gorgeousgeorge wrote:

In this day and age you have to be fierce careful but cant go around belittling people like that either.

15 years ago I made a mistake by asking a work colleague who was single in her thirties if the shelf she was sitting on was dusty. I was hauled up in front of my manager.

You just can't say anything...

TomOnBoard

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Travellers do it as it’s supposed to bring them luck.

When they do it with hurleys, it brings them twice as much luck...

Samuri Suicide

Wouldn't stress about it OP. You are probably over thinking it a bit especially the day after an Xmas party. As a previous poster said, the 'outraged' woman has probably moved onto her next crusade and is trying to ban the expression man-flu.
People like her thrive on creating conflict in the work place, they need something to focus on. It says more about the lacking in her own personal life than anything.

NSAman

Samuri Suicide wrote: »

Wouldn't stress about it OP. You are probably over thinking it a bit especially the day after an Xmas party. As a previous poster said, the 'outraged' woman has probably moved onto her next crusade and is trying to ban the expression man-flu.
People like her thrive on creating conflict in the work place, they need something to focus on. It says more about the lacking in her own personal life than anything.

There is always a reason for "the lacking in her own personal life". Her actions prove why there is lacking...;)

mistersifter

happywithlife wrote: »

I cannot believe you think in this day & age anyone thinks its okay to "pat someone on the head" coupled with a degeratory comment or "pet name"
jezz
grow up and act in a professional manner in ALL matters work related
I've to put with crap like at work ...smart comments over something work related that the other person thought initially was just a joke and I laughed along with it. you just don't know how the other person is really feeling. in company I may opt not to make a fuss or call the person out but you bet I did stop those smart comments quietly.
bullies often use the phrases it was only a joke / it was only messing / I didn't anything by it etc etc
that other girl was dead right to pull you on your behaviour. belittling anyone over something like their height is funny ONLY to the belittler
row it in before you DO end up in hot water with HR

You think that person was right to accuse him of sexual harassment?

mistersifter

There is a bloke called Don Miguel Ruiz who thought there were four rules to living a happy life. One of those rules is

DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering

if someone says **** about your height and youre small, so what? Dont take it personally. It's their problem. It really doesn't matter.

I think if people tried this, we wouldnt have so many people going around being offended all the time.

worded

Don’t want to make little of this but there is a worldwide shortage of dwarfs

ForestFire

work wrote: »

No offence but you appear to be fluid with your honesty...I quote from you "joking I laughed and did it again and again" now that is not twice and seems your changing your story.
Simply you didn't do anything that warrants action however head patters really are usually ****. It's really disrespectful in my opinion. Just think about it and move on.

First part of sentence...
and (I) did it again

Second part of sentence...
and again she shouted the same

He did not say he done it again and again

TomOnBoard

worded wrote: »

Don’t want to make little of this but there is a worldwide shortage of dwarfs

Now you're just belittling the situation. I can't believe that you'd minimise things like that.

mistersifter

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Now you're just belittling the situation. I can't believe that you'd minimise things like that.

maybe that woman who started shouting at him just had a short fuse?

TomOnBoard

mistersifter wrote: »

maybe that woman who started shouting at him just had a short fuse?

Yeah, or maybe a slight little inferiority complex...

mistersifter

well either way ..to react the way she did is the height of ignorance IMO.

Leilak

You should be called out on ridiculing a colleague like that, it's nothing short of disgusting imo

The Oort Cloud

368100 wrote: »

It was a joke, she makes similar comments about me as I'm no 6 footer either. I never would have said it if I thought it would annoy her in the slightest.
Its dire if you can't even have an innocent joke these days.

You are grand, and don't be worrying about it, stress is a silent killer. You had a bit of fun and the person wasn't offended so I don't see a problem here. That other one with the snowflake mouth is normal these days, some people will ruin your day or life if they can, as these kind of people need to be ignored 100%.


Don't even stress yourself out over this, it's pointless. Just completely ignore that fruitcake person and enjoy your christmas celebrations with your friend.

Wanderer2010

368100 wrote: »

Are you serious?? Thats a ridiculous comment. grabbing someones knob and patting someone on the head are completely different. Thats the sort of thinking that leads to false accusations

As i said theres no issue between miriam and I, she thought it was funny, we joke like that in the office all the time.

You have a very strange sense of humour if you think thats funny. You still come off looking stupid even if it was a mutual joke. I mean how old are you 15?? The office work party is still a work environment so be aware of that.

TomOnBoard

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

You are grand, and don't be worrying about it, stress is a silent killer. You had a bit of fun and the person wasn't offended so I don't see a problem here. That other one with the snowflake mouth is normal these days, some people will ruin your day or life if they can, as these kind of people need to be ignored 100%.


Don't even stress yourself out over this, it's pointless. Just completely ignore that fruitcake person and enjoy your christmas celebrations with your friend.

Good idea. Just invite Lil' X out to yer local at Christmas and tell her the drinks are on you... No pints... Only shorts...

bellylint

368100 wrote: »

So I was at the company Xmas party last night.


Theres a girl works with me and she is very short, like very very short. Her name is Miriam. I get on very well with her.

Early in the night (but I had a fair few in me) I patted her head and christened her " Lil Mim" ....still think its quite funny, but when I did it another girl who ive never met before and who was in the conversation roared at me that it was sexual harassment.

Thinking she was joking I laughed and did it again and again she shouted the same. Ive never ever been even remotely been accused of something like that. I was in shock so just walked away and enjoyed the rest of the night, but i'm fairly annoyed about it.

Miriam took it the way it was intended, as a joke....and I said to her afterwards that I hoped she didnt think that, and she said to forget about it, the other girl is just a bit odd.

Does anyone think it would even be close to being called out for sexual harassment? Im thinking of saying it to HR next week to cover myself, and make sure they know that there was nothing to it, as its a serious allegation to be thrown at someone.

Any thoughts?

It is in no way sexual harassment, but that doesnt make it funny. Yes you may have a particular dynamic with your friend, but if you saw somebody doing the same between two people you didnt know what would you think? Would you view one of them as just being a twat??? Your friend may be of good enough nature to put it up to a joke but that doesnt change the fact you are a dick for making jokes about something that most likely they are conscious off. Glad you are not my "mate". With friends like you...
Support your mates ffs. If you want banter, have a bit of a ****ing judge about what you should and shouldnt take the piss out of. Change your dynamic with your friend and you will have a better relationship and also stop being a **** at the same time. Win win.

fritzelly

Office parties should always be classed as an extension of work and all the rules still apply. Its a work do so you can't suddenly start acting like an arsehole because someone else gets your humour
Saying that some people seem to have problems understanding what the OP actually said

mistersifter

bellylint wrote: »

It is in no way sexual harassment, but that doesnt make it funny. Yes you may have a particular dynamic with your friend, but if you saw somebody doing the same between two people you didnt know what would you think? Would you view one of them as just being a twat??? Your friend may be of good enough nature to put it up to a joke but that doesnt change the fact you are a dick for making jokes about something that most likely they are conscious off. Glad you are not my "mate". With friends like you...
Support your mates ffs. If you want banter, have a bit of a ****ing judge about what you should and shouldnt take the piss out of. Change your dynamic with your friend and you will have a better relationship and also stop being a **** at the same time. Win win.

Why would it matter what the onlooker thinks? If the two people having the discussion are enjoying it, the onlooker should mind their own business. If they are concerned about bullying, they can always have a quiet word with the person they believe to be the victim, rather than assuming they know everyones inner thoughts and then mouthing off in front of everyone at an Xmas party (at which they might be drunk themselves and not in the best form to judge).

You don't know whether OP looked like a dick or not. You weren't there and you have no idea of the dynamic between the two people in question. Youre assuming that his friend is "just putting up with the joke" but deep down is really offended. Maybe this is not the case. OP has said that it's an "in joke" between him and his friend. It might even be a flirtatious or affectionate manner of "slagging".

qwerty13

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Gorgeousgeorge wrote:

In this day and age you have to be fierce careful but cant go around belittling people like that either.

15 years ago I made a mistake by asking a work colleague who was single in her thirties if the shelf she was sitting on was dusty. I was hauled up in front of my manager.

You just can't say anything...

Actually I think that’s pretty horrible. I wouldn’t go to HR about it, but it’s a hurtful comment and I’d give you a very wide berth if you’d said that to me or any of my friends. Dickish behaviour.

AllForIt

If it were me and if I felt that annoyed about it I would most certainly complain to HR, just at least to have it noted.

Firstly girl 2, lets call her Louise, embarrassed you in front of your work colleagues. Secondly she accuses you of a a very serious offense and thirdly she really pissed you off and ruined to a degree you once a year xmas party which is supposed to bring work colleagues together but her outburst served to do the exact opposite, hardly in the spirit of the event. Who knows she may even be badmouthing you to other work colleagues or friends.

Another reason I would personally complain is that in this age of feminists and Influencers who seem quite successful at creating the narrative in young minds that sexual assault propensity is one of the default traits of every man on the planet , one needs to hit back and show up this nonsense for what it is, and what better way to do it than by showing up one particular individual who has fallen for it.

Louise needs to understand that when one claims that a pat on the head is sexual harassment you belittle the real seriousness of sexual harassment.

So my advice would be in you feel you are in good standing with your work colleagues and to date have a good reputation then I would report her.

The Oort Cloud

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Good idea. Just invite Lil' X out to yer local at Christmas and tell her the drinks are on you... No pints... Only shorts...

There we go, a person of which has personality and a good laugh out of this tiny non-problem. Cheers, It's nice to know that someone is left that can see it in a clear light. I hate that word 'Snowflake' really, but I have to say some folk out there are just that, maybe they're flat-earthers, who know's, there's something flat about them, as flat as my two day old beer. Ah sure, there's more to life than worrying over the little things.

begbysback

fritzelly wrote: »

Office parties should always be classed as an extension of work and all the rules still apply.

Would that not be called “work” then, rather than “party”?

doolox

...and the food better be good and the drinks free.

Otherwise all bets are off.

ChikiChiki

That's a serious accusation and worthy of a trip to HR.

I'd also suggest OP checks his own behavior ridiculing a colleague in such a way. To find it funny is a bit bizarre.

Joe Don Dante

368100 wrote: »

I patted her with my hand, two taps.

had you an erection at the time of patting?

OMM 0000

The person who accused you of sexual harassment is unstable and dumb. She was probably waiting all night hoping something like this would happen. You made her week.

If you look for sexual harassment everywhere, you will think you're surrounded by harassers. She's one of these people.

No doubt she thinks she's surrounded by racists and rapists too.

Just ignore her and move on with your life.

OMM 0000

To comment on the bullying angle:

Obviously this depends.

If X is your friend, and you have this sort of relationship (teasing each other), then it's totally fine. This appears to be the case here.

But if is some girl you barely know, and you went up and did this to her, it would be bad. But that's not the case here, so no worries.

I think we should be allowed have a bit of a laugh. I know it's "safer" to walk on egg shells, but that's a depressing way to live your life, and a depressing way to run an office.

The Bishop Basher

begbysback wrote: »

Would that not be called “work” then, rather than “party”?

A lot of people run into issues because they think office parties offer immunity from being sanctioned for poor behavior.

They don’t.

We had someone climb up on a table and take a piss once so maybe that’ll help make you feel a bit better op..

What you did was risky in this day and age. Patting people on the head can easily be interpreted as demeaning and you never really know how it affects someone deep down.

But as you’ve just found out, all it takes is for someone else to get offended and your in the ****..

Free bars, booze and work nights are a bad mix..

rn

I have formal training and experience in this area as I'm a personnel manager in my day job, with a large number of people reporting to me.

What op has described is an unprofessional incident, that could be interpreted as harassment. The "third party" is as entitled to report it as the person directly targeted in the incident. It is not sexual harassment, but is harassment as it can be interpreted as demeaning behavior.

Where this gets very serious is that op in another post says this is not the first time it's happened. So there is more than one incident. Unfortunately for op that falls under the definition of bullying.

This is a serious matter.

You are right to be concerned about the accusations, however they are not false as you admit the behaviour. Do not report the witness lady.

I recommend this sort of joke stop immediately. Enough ppl on here are telling you it can be interpreted as offensive by a third party. Under natural justice that applies here, there's enough to say its serious and it's harassment.

I hope the witness lady doesn't report you to HR, but do recognise her right to do so as harassment is not acceptable in workplace. FYI the company Christmas party is considered the workplace.

There are three websites that are useful to you. First is your own companys policy on harassment and bullying. Then these two.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/Are_you_being_Bullied/
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/bullying_in_the_workplace.html

If you are unlucky enough that this goes HR, my opinion is this is on the lower spectrum of serious incidents, so i would say you are looking at having to make an apology and a formal verbal warning (which is actually given on paper as well.)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would at least stop the joke. If it goes to HR cooperate fully and get process over as fast as possible.

sydthebeat

^
Tldr


The world is fcuked, the perm-offended have the power, don't make jokes in work as its only third parties who determine if your funny or not.

Its 1984

Blud

Was the shouty one dressed as a panda by any chance?

You shouldn't worry. Grabbing a tit would be sexual harassment, being a tit doesn't count.

kaymin

rn wrote: »

I have formal training and experience in this area as I'm a personnel manager in my day job, with a large number of people reporting to me.

What op has described is an unprofessional incident, that could be interpreted as harassment. The "third party" is as entitled to report it as the person directly targeted in the incident. It is not sexual harassment, but is harassment as it can be interpreted as demeaning behavior.

Where this gets very serious is that op in another post says this is not the first time it's happened. So there is more than one incident. Unfortunately for op that falls under the definition of bullying.

This is a serious matter.

You are right to be concerned about the accusations, however they are not false as you admit the behaviour. Do not report the witness lady.

I recommend this sort of joke stop immediately. Enough ppl on here are telling you it can be interpreted as offensive by a third party. Under natural justice that applies here, there's enough to say its serious and it's harassment.

I hope the witness lady doesn't report you to HR, but do recognise her right to do so as harassment is not acceptable in workplace. FYI the company Christmas party is considered the workplace.

There are three websites that are useful to you. First is your own companys policy on harassment and bullying. Then these two.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/Are_you_being_Bullied/
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/bullying_in_the_workplace.html

If you are unlucky enough that this goes HR, my opinion is this is on the lower spectrum of serious incidents, so i would say you are looking at having to make an apology and a formal verbal warning (which is actually given on paper as well.)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would at least stop the joke. If it goes to HR cooperate fully and get process over as fast as possible.

There's such a thing as context and you have ignored it. It was banter and any level headed person would see it that way especially as that's how lil X viewed it.

I'd initiate defamation proceedings against the busy body who shouted sexual harassment just to teach her a lesson

Edward M

368100 wrote: »

So I was at the company Xmas party last night.


Theres a girl works with me and she is very short, like very very short. Her name is Miriam. I get on very well with her.

Early in the night (but I had a fair few in me) I patted her head and christened her " Lil Mim" ....still think its quite funny, but when I did it another girl who ive never met before and who was in the conversation roared at me that it was sexual harassment.

Thinking she was joking I laughed and did it again and again she shouted the same. Ive never ever been even remotely been accused of something like that. I was in shock so just walked away and enjoyed the rest of the night, but i'm fairly annoyed about it.

Miriam took it the way it was intended, as a joke....and I said to her afterwards that I hoped she didnt think that, and she said to forget about it, the other girl is just a bit odd.

Does anyone think it would even be close to being called out for sexual harassment? Im thinking of saying it to HR next week to cover myself, and make sure they know that there was nothing to it, as its a serious allegation to be thrown at someone.

Any thoughts?

I wouldn't call it sexual harrasment.
But that said, I wouldn't call it funny either.
Using someone else as a kind of joke figure because of their stature or whatever is wrong imo.

Pkiernan

Very poor form to make fun of someone's physical appearance.


Two questions for you OP.

1. Would you pat your bosses boss on the head the same way if he or she was short?

2. Is it okay to rub a person of African descent on the head and jokingly say it's for good luck?

Ninthlife

Jesus Christ theres some amount of over reactions on here..

I hate these threads as its always who can be the most righteous or most PC

Its called a joke get over yourselves with the 'bad form' bollox

OMM 0000

Pkiernan wrote: »

Very poor form to make fun of someone's physical appearance.


Two questions for you OP.

1. Would you pat your bosses boss on the head the same way if he or she was short?

2. Is it okay to rub a person of African descent on the head and jokingly say it's for good luck?

Do we really need to have this conversation?

1. X appears to be his friend at work. Someone he jokes around with. They have one of those male/female relationships which are heavy on teasing.

This is totally different to his relationship with his boss, especially since we know nothing about his relationship with his boss.

2. WTF are you talking about.

Do you genuinely think the OP walks up to random black people on the street, or the CEO of the place he works at, and starts rubbing their heads?

Obviously if the OP is friends with a black guy, and they do mock racism with each other, then they have their own rules about what they can joke about. I am friends with a Kenyan girl and we slag each other all the time about me being white / her being black. It's a joke and it's fun. But obviously I don't walk up to random black women and say "what's up nigga".

How is this complicated.

sydthebeat

Ninthlife wrote: »

Jesus Christ theres some amount of over reactions on here..

I hate these threads as its always who can be the most righteous or most PC

Its called a joke get over yourselves with the 'bad form' bollox

Completely agreed.

The sense of entitlement here is smothering.
Who are these people to say what is and isn't funny when they are completely remote to the situation and context.
Numerous times the poster has said its a running joke between him and X and she gives a good as she gets.... But no, THEY are the ones who must take offense on her behalf and dictate that it's demeaning and patronising.

Well I accuse THEM of being demeaning and patronising for assumming she cannot speak up for herself.... Are they doing that because the see her as small and somehow 'lesser'??? Shameful

OMM 0000

sydthebeat wrote: »

Completely agreed.

The sense of entitlement here is smothering.
Who are these people to say what is and isn't funny when they are completely remote to the situation and context.
Numerous times the poster has said its a running joke between him and mim and she gives a good as she gets.... But no, THEY are the ones who must take offense on her behalf and dictate that it's demeaning and patronising.

Well I accuse THEM of being demeaning and patronising for assumming she cannot speak up for herself.... Are they doing that because the see her as small and somehow 'lesser'??? Shameful

They are looking to be offended.

I always wonder who are these people, cause I've never met them in real life.

Maybe they have never worked before so they don't understand human relationships at work can be genuine friendships?

Teyla Emmagan

You should grow up OP and be a bit more professional. It doesn't matter if you and X are friends and slag each other off. In a work context she is a colleague. I would honestly think you were a bit thick if I had seen that.

Edward M

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Do we really need to have this conversation?

1. Miriam appears to be his friend at work. Someone he jokes around with. They have one of those male/female relationships which are heavy on teasing.

This is totally different to his relationship with his boss, especially since we know nothing about his relationship with his boss.

2. WTF are you talking about.

Do you genuinely think the OP walks up to random black people on the street, or the CEO of the place he works at, and starts rubbing their heads?

Obviously if the OP is friends with a black guy, and they do mock racism with each other, then they have their own rules about what they can joke about. I am friends with a Kenyan girl and we slag each other all the time about me being white / her being black. It's a joke and it's fun. But obviously I don't walk up to random black women and say "what's up nigga".

How is this complicated.

I'd agree to a point, have no issue with personal relationships.
But in the context of being in a crowd and in company, would you call your friend something racist in front of others you don't know?
I wouldn't anyway.
I'd have a few friends that I'd slag the ****e out of and them me too, but I wouldn't try to make a public joke of any of them.
There's a bit of fun and then there's demeaning joke making to big yourself up.

OMM 0000

Edward M wrote: »

But in the context of being in a crowd and in company, would you call your friend something racist in front of others you don't know?
I wouldn't anyway.

Of course no.

But patting a friend on the head is offensive to others because...?

I think people want to believe they're surrounded by harassers, and because the demand for harassment is greater than the supply, they have to view this banter between Miriam and OP as harassment.

Heres Johnny

There's some people on here devoid of any joy in their lives. X is fine about it, move on.
I got slagged about balding slightly in work recently, who do I talk to about this??

Avatar MIA

I've read the first page (40 posts) and the last page. Everyone is a colleague, but what is the exact relationship between the OP and X? Is the OP more senior?

Some are assuming the OP's version of the relationship is true, but how many short of stature people do we know would like to have their head tapped and called Lil'... It's all too possible X doesn't really like it and goes along with it. Someone above said 'X sounds amazing', well maybe she isn't, just accepting and playing along because it's work. The OP texting her and she saying its grand isn't really proof... could be a continuation of playing along.

Is it sexual harassment, no. Is it possibly inappropriate, yes.

OP, don't assume your 'hilarious' behaviour is appreciated, it may just be tolerated. And, could this whole scenario be a sketch from 'The office'. Easily.

Avatar MIA

Heres Johnny wrote: »

There's some people on here devoid of any joy in their lives. is fine about it, move on.
I got slagged about balding slightly in work recently, who do I talk to about this??

Your pharmacist, barber or dating agency after you get dumped

AllForIt

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

You should grow up OP and be a bit more professional. It doesn't matter if you and Miriam are friends and slag each other off. In a work context she a colleague. I would honestly think you were a bit thick if I had seen that.

Be professional at a drunken xmas party?

OMM 0000

AllForIt wrote: »

Be professional at a drunken xmas party?

No jokes or physical contact allowed.

No exceptions.

Hope you enjoy the party!

sydthebeat

OMM 0000 wrote: »

No jokes or physical contact allowed.

No exceptions.

Hope you enjoy the party!

Images of the priest at the local dance with the ruler measuring space between the boys and girls dancing....

Edward M

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Of course no.

But patting a friend on the head is offensive to others because...?

I think people want to believe they're surrounded by harassers, and because the demand for harassment is greater than the supply, they have to view this banter between Miriam and OP as harassment.

He called her lil X if I remember correctly!

Avatar MIA

sydthebeat wrote: »

Images of the priest at the local dance with the ruler measuring space between the boys and girls dancing....

Hmm, pretty sure 'priest's ruler' was a euphemism.