Christmas party accusation

sydthebeat

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Hmm, pretty sure 'priest's ruler' was a euphemism.

Nope... It was an actual thing

OMM 0000

Edward M wrote: »

He called her lil mim if I remember correctly!

Honestly can't tell at this stage if you're joking or if you think "Lil Mim" is a racial slur or something like that...

happywithlife

happywithlife wrote: »

I cannot believe you think in this day & age anyone thinks its okay to "pat someone on the head" coupled with a degeratory comment or "pet name"
jezz
grow up and act in a professional manner in ALL matters work related
I've to put with crap like at work ...smart comments over something work related that the other person thought initially was just a joke and I laughed along with it. you just don't know how the other person is really feeling. in company I may opt not to make a fuss or call the person out but you bet I did stop those smart comments quietly.
bullies often use the phrases it was only a joke / it was only messing / I didn't anything by it etc etc
that other girl was dead right to pull you on your behaviour. belittling anyone over something like their height is funny ONLY to the belittler
row it in before you DO end up in hot water with HR

This needs repeating. Read it and heed it, OP.

sydthebeat

Edward M wrote: »

He called her lil X if I remember correctly!

Are you upset cos he shortened her name to X?


Oops... I shouldn't say 'shortened' .... In case I upset someone who wants to take offence on behalf of X again.....

Sittingpretty

sydthebeat wrote: »

Completely agreed.

The sense of entitlement here is smothering.
Who are these people to say what is and isn't funny when they are completely remote to the situation and context.
Numerous times the poster has said its a running joke between him and mim and she gives a good as she gets.... But no, THEY are the ones who must take offense on her behalf and dictate that it's demeaning and patronising.

Well I accuse THEM of being demeaning and patronising for assumming she cannot speak up for herself.... Are they doing that because the see her as small and somehow 'lesser'??? Shameful

This. 100%.

I’m 5’2”. I get this ALL the time. It’s a joke amongst colleagues/friends at a party where everyone is relaxing and letting their collective hairs down. The OP and X are not just colleagues they’re friends. Do the perpetually perennially offended not understand the concept of context?

Absolute nonsense claiming this as at the least bullying and at the worst, harassment. NONSENSE.

The sub section of society so ready to be offended on their own, and others’ behalf need a pretty serious dose of perspective. It won’t be long before conversation/wit/joviality is considered offensive to some pink haired, beanie sporting, non binary “activists”. Seriously. **** off.

anewme

A lot of people are missing the point.

The person who works in personnel is spot on. I've worked in offices for almost 30 years and have seen this scenario many times. Anyone who thinks this is unique to snowflake generation or whatever label you want to put on it, it's not.

The third party witness is just as entitled to report the incident. She was involved in the conversation too and was more than likely embarrassed. I would not like to be in company where someone is patted on the head like that. The "patter" is at best a Grade A dickhead best avoided. We used to call behaviours like these CLM,s. (Career limiting moves). While not sexual harassment, it is definitely a no no.

Never burn your bridges, as you have to cross the river many times. You may encounter witness lady again at some time in the company or if you move company within the same sector.

The word banter and the word bullying can be interchangeable as they have a very fine line between them. At an office party, best not to put yourself in that position at all.

By the way, OP, still thinks the joke is funny. Can you explain what the joke actually is? The OP said lil X and then patted lil X on the head. He did it twice. I don't get the punchline between any of these words and actions. Lil X- pat head - repeat. Maybe it's one of those, you'd have had to have been there moments?

The office party is an extension of the office. Someone said why do they use the term party- why do they use the term office then? Remember this conversation took place with someone OP does not know at all.

OP, I don't think much will come of it. You have already apologised and have a good relationship with X. I would NOT bring it up again and no more head pats or lil Xs and I would stay away from personal remarks as banter. In work. Outside of work.

In our gang, one guy had dropped his fitness and put on a lot of weight. He just said ah fck it. One of the others start slagging him and calling him Chunky. He laughed it off. However the other guy kept it up each time we were out and would mention it every time. The bigger guy lost it one night and a big row ensued. It had been getting to him all along. Banter continually mocking anyone's shortcomings is never recommended.she might not actually give a ****e, but she might and is too polite to say. No one really knows exactly what's going in inside other people's heads and to be honest, it could even depend on how the person is actually feeling about themselves at that particular point in time as we all have good days and bad days.

TheQuietFella

I was at an office party many years ago now and myself and a girl were disturbed by a woman who threatened to go to personnel because of what
we were doing so I gave her one also and that was the end of the problem!

So you see, you should have patted the other one on the head also, you discriminated!! :cool:

cannotlogin

For the love of "Chosen person of worship!*", is this really the type of world we want to live in?

Where everyone has to watch every single thing they do or say for fear of unintentionally offending someone.

Bullying & sexual harrassment are two very deliberate nasty behaviours & anyone who has suffered from either knows the clear distinction between them and any form of banter or joking.

Whether offence was caused or not also comes into play. Whether something is deliberate, whether it continues when asked to stop etc.

2018 - the year of the offended

*God removed because of complaints!

Gonad

That should have been your reaction

Cork Boy 53

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I was at an office party many years ago now and myself and a girl were disturbed by a woman who threatened to go to personnel because of what
we were doing so I gave her one also and that was the end of the problem!

So you see, you should have patted the other one on the head also, you discriminated!! :cool:

I am 100% sure this happened.:rolleyes:

Cork Boy 53

Back sometime during the 80s, at the company Christmas party, I remember the boss had taken a lot of drink on board and was eyeing up one of the female employees. Now in fairness this girl was a real looker with a great body and was wearing a low cut top and short dress. So anyway the boss got very friendly with her to the point where he started kissing and groping her, and eventually she had enough of this and told him to **** off. He reluctantly did so and that was the end of things. Imagine if something like that happened between boss and staff member these days and the ****storm that would follow on from it.

Pkiernan

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Do we really need to have this conversation?

1. Miriam appears to be his friend at work. Someone he jokes around with. They have one of those male/female relationships which are heavy on teasing.

This is totally different to his relationship with his boss, especially since we know nothing about his relationship with his boss.

2. WTF are you talking about.

Do you genuinely think the OP walks up to random black people on the street, or the CEO of the place he works at, and starts rubbing their heads?

Obviously if the OP is friends with a black guy, and they do mock racism with each other, then they have their own rules about what they can joke about. I am friends with a Kenyan girl and we slag each other all the time about me being white / her being black. It's a joke and it's fun. But obviously I don't walk up to random black women and say "what's up nigga".

How is this complicated.

You're out of your mind.

Your behaviour with that girl, if true, is so far beyond stupid. It will catch up with you.

Your reading comprehension is also sub par. Where did I mention random strangers?

If you think making racist jokes because you have black friends is okay, then you're not long for a P45.

Happy Christmas Benny Hill.

Defaulter1831

I agree with elements from a lot of posts. Context, the thin line between banter and bullying a boundary we generally can't see.

I disagree with a few points.

1. The OP is a dickhead. No dickhead would get stressed over a scenario like this. It's not in their nature. They wouldn't start a thread here.

2. The use of the term 'scumbag'. That's a term that should only be applied to gangland, drug dealers, Graham Dwyers of this world, Matin Callinan and his ilk.

Sunflower 27

Pkiernan wrote: »

You're out of your mind.

Your behaviour with that girl, if true, is so far beyond stupid. It will catch up with you.

Your reading comprehension is also sub par. Where did I mention random strangers?

If you think making racist jokes because you have black friends is okay, then you're not long for a P45.

Happy Christmas Benny Hill.

So in-jokes between friends is not on? She calls him out for being white. Sounds fair to me.

The Oort Cloud

It's mad to see so many people regurgitate nonsensical's in regards to the OP having an enlightened time with his friend of which had no problem with the pat on the head.



Yes, some folk say the world is ****ed up, but the world is fine and beautiful, it's the people that are ****ed up. Well some people, the rest are real true human beings of common sense and intelligence.

It's interesting how complex people are in any forum discussion. Psychology at work.

OMM 0000

Pkiernan wrote: »

You're out of your mind.

Your behaviour with that girl, if true, is so far beyond stupid. It will catch up with you.

Your reading comprehension is also sub par. Where did I mention random strangers?

If you think making racist jokes because you have black friends is okay, then you're not long for a P45.

Happy Christmas Benny Hill.

I think you're the one with the reading comprehension issues, because no where did I say my Kenyan friend is a work mate and I make racist jokes at work. So there isn't going to be a P45 coming my way.

She's an old friend (20 odd years) and we're close friends. Close friends don't need to be politically correct with each other. It's absolutely bizarre some people here think friends should not joke with each other.

Cork Boy 53

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

It's mad to see so many people regurgitate nonsensical's in regards to the OP having an enlightened time with his friend of which had no problem with the pat on the head.



Yes, some folk say the world is ****ed up, but the would is fine and beautiful, it's the people that are ****ed up. Well some people, the rest are real true human beings of common sense and intelligence.

Maybe so but IMO the amount of the former are increasing while the latter are diminishing.

bucketybuck

368100 wrote: »

Try reading the posts, she took it as a joke and she gives as good as she gets. A laugh between colleagues....you obviously dont understand that. As for not being funny....she thought it was very funny so try not making blanket judgements about people's sense of humour.
I wouldnt have done it unless I waa sure it would be received how it was intended.

Sure, you tell yourself that.

One common trend among people who make those sort of inane "jokes" is that they are convinced that they are funny and that everybody else is laughing. The reality is that most of the time the other person is just politely letting it slide because they don't want the drama involved with reacting negatively.

Its possible I suppose that your work friend spent the rest of the night giggling at how funny you were when you tapped her on the head and laughed at how short she was, maybe she thought that one was a real zinger. Maybe. So I guess you can convince yourself that it was hilarious and that she thought it was brilliant craic.

But the only time I've ever met anybody who thought that type of "banter" :rolleyes: was funny was when I was in the room with a gobshite.

TheQuietFella

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I am 100% sure this happened.:rolleyes:

She wasn't as agile as the first but I didn't discriminate against her over her age!

OMM 0000

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sure, you tell yourself that.

One common trend among people who make those sort of inane "jokes" is that they are convinced that they are funny and that everybody else is laughing. The reality is that most of the time the other person is just politely letting it slide because they don't want the drama involved with reacting negatively.

Its possible I suppose that your work friend spent the rest of the night giggling at how funny you were when you tapped her on the head and laughed at how short she was, maybe she thought that one was a real zinger. Maybe. So I guess you can convince yourself that it was hilarious and that she thought it was brilliant craic.

But the only time I've ever met anybody who thought that type of "banter" :rolleyes: was funny was when I was in the room with a gobshite.

You're being too harsh.

The only data we have to go with is what the OP told us.

It's absolutely true that she could have been uncomfortable, but she's an agreeable person so she goes along with it, but from what we've been told it sounds like they tease each other a lot, so I'm inclined to think they're pals who mess around.

Based on some of the reactions here you'd swear he groped her. It makes me wonder where this line of thinking is coming from. Is it jealousy someone is happy at work? Is it that toxic far left way of thinking where everything has to be seen through the eyes of victimhood? Like seriously, he patted her head and made a joke. I don't think it's a good joke, and personally if someone did that to me I'd laugh because it's such a crap joke (like it's funny someone thinks that would be funny) but in no way would I think I'm being harassed.

Eggs For Dinner

I get on well with my colleagues and there is usually good natured banter most days. Do I socialise with them? Never, no exceptions. It can"t end well, as the OP and others here can testify.

mistersifter

anewme wrote: »

....No one really knows exactly what's going in inside other people's heads and to be honest, it could even depend on how the person is actually feeling about themselves at that particular point in time as we all have good days and bad days.

Exactly, nobody knows what's going on inside the heads of the two involved, which is why the one who accused him of sexual harassment should not have done so publicly. If she was concerned, she should have handled it quietly or went directly to management rather than throw about accusations at a Christmas party. Falsely accusing someone of sexual harassment is very serious - more serious than slagging someone's height. What would happen if Lil X wasn't offended by this name or a pat on the head and took OP's side and reported big mouth to HR for false accusations?

I'm surprised posters listing off the rules of the HR Book dont seem to understand this and are more worried about telling OP how terrible he is for patting someone on the head. I hope I never have to work in a place where all common sense goes out the window because of fear of not appearing politically correct. It's stifling.

The worse case scenario here is that OP unintentionally offended X. What's the worse that should happen to him in that case? Maybe he should be told "don't say that to her again, it's patronizing". End of. Even if inappropriate, it's a minor incident.

alexmalalex

happywithlife wrote: »

I cannot believe you think in this day & age anyone thinks its okay to "pat someone on the head" coupled with a degeratory comment or "pet name"
jezz
grow up and act in a professional manner in ALL matters work related
I've to put with crap like at work ...smart comments over something work related that the other person thought initially was just a joke and I laughed along with it. you just don't know how the other person is really feeling. in company I may opt not to make a fuss or call the person out but you bet I did stop those smart comments quietly.
bullies often use the phrases it was only a joke / it was only messing / I didn't anything by it etc etc
that other girl was dead right to pull you on your behaviour. belittling anyone over something like their height is funny ONLY to the belittler
row it in before you DO end up in hot water with HR

It is a frickin party, will you lighten up for god sake. If it were in the office in front of a client, different matter. But it was a joke between friends...

Jeez louise

rn

kaymin wrote: »

There's such a thing as context and you have ignored it. It was banter and any level headed person would see it that way especially as that's how lil X viewed it.

I'd initiate defamation proceedings against the busy body who shouted sexual harassment just to teach her a lesson

The OP is guilty of form of harassment by their own admission. They are guilty of bullying, as it has been repeated on more than one occasion.

I've considered context in likely punishment... Note punishment in most companies policies for bullying is "up to and including dismissal".

It's not sexual harassment. It can be considered harassment.

Harassment is not just limited to the victim and head patter. The other witnessing employee has right to report and have the incident dealt with. Also incidents cannot be simply explained or excused by "it was just banter".

It's at a work party, which means all company policies apply.

I'm just giving the text book of how a company deals with it. Victim can still go down legal route. In which case natural justice applies.

OMM 0000

rn wrote: »

The OP is guilty of form of harassment by their own admission. They are guilty of bullying, as it has been repeated on more than one occasion.

I've considered context in likely punishment... Note punishment in most companies policies for bullying is "up to and including dismissal".

It's not sexual harassment. It can be considered harassment.

Harassment is not just limited to the victim and head patter. The other witnessing employee has right to report and have the incident dealt with. Also incidents cannot be simply explained or excused by "it was just banter".

It's at a work party, which means all company policies apply.

I'm just giving the text book of how a company deals with it. Victim can still go down legal route. In which case natural justice applies.

HR are wrong on this one.

It sounds like the kind of thing HR does to justify the existence of their job.

I do accept though this stuff is complex.

alexmalalex

rn wrote: »

The OP is guilty of form of harassment by their own admission. They are guilty of bullying, as it has been repeated on more than one occasion.

I've considered context in likely punishment... Note punishment in most companies policies for bullying is "up to and including dismissal".

It's not sexual harassment. It can be considered harassment.

Harassment is not just limited to the victim and head patter. The other witnessing employee has right to report and have the incident dealt with. Also incidents cannot be simply explained or excused by "it was just banter".

It's at a work party, which means all company policies apply.

I'm just giving the text book of how a company deals with it. Victim can still go down legal route. In which case natural justice applies.

Sentencing is starting early OP...

Don't listen to this tripe. You made an innocent remark at a party, and it was taken in good humour. Not a biggie...and not worth a second thought...

Rigor Mortis

368100 wrote: »

It wasnt all night, it was twice! And we spent most of the rest of the night having a laugh about other things.
Given some of the comments coming out here, im less surprised by the whole thing.....

Funny. You ask a question then you get annoyed by the answer.
Your actions are inappropriate, not sexual harassment. They would be grounds for a talking to and potentially a verbal warning in a HR heavy company. Name calling in work ain’t okanymore. You’d do well to realise that.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote:

You're out of your mind.

bucketybuck wrote:

But the only time I've ever met anybody who thought that type of "banter" was funny was when I was in the room with a gob****e.

Oh dear.

I see that context is no longer more important than being politically correct anymore.

Posts like these make me fear for the future

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh dear.

I see that context is no longer more important than being politically correct anymore.

Posts like these make me fear for the future

You're right. Two good pals can't have the craic on a night out without some gobsh1te sticking their oar in.

OMM 0000

Let's imagine it's not a work Christmas party.

So OP and his friend are out having drinks in a bar.

They're having a bit of craic and they're a bit drunk.

OP pats his friend on the head and says "Ah my little friend".

A person at a table nearby witnesses this, walks over to the OP, and tells him to stop being a bully / violent.

Honestly now, what would be your reaction if you witnessed this?

Would you be thinking, oh that person is misunderstanding what's happening.

Or would you be thinking good on that person, we need to stand up to these bullies?

If you think it's the latter, then we need to define the rules for men and women working together. It's can't simply be "don't harass people", as we can see from this thread that that is totally subjective. We have people saying what happened was horrific, and other people saying it's totally harmless.

So what should the rules be?

Zero physical contact except for handshakes?

Jokes must not be about the following: staff, the company, politics, religion...?

The Bishop Basher

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Let's imagine it's not a work Christmas party.

That’s an entirely different scenario...

No work, no HR..

OMM 0000

Rennaws wrote: »

That’s an entirely different scenario...

No work, no HR..

Surely harassment is harassment?

I could be wrong on this.

andekwarhola

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd think you were a bit of a knob patting anyone on the head really

It is in a normal working situation but this is in the context of two friends.

That said, given the endless capacity of other people to take offence, I just steer well clear of doing anything like this around other work colleagues, even with friends.

Fann Linn

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Let's imagine it's not a work Christmas party.

So OP and his friend are out having drinks in a bar.

They're having a bit of craic and they're a bit drunk.

OP pats his friend on the head and says "Ah my little friend".

A person at a table nearby witnesses this, walks over to the OP, and tells him to stop being a bully / violent.

Honestly now, what would be your reaction if you witnessed this?

Would you be thinking, oh that person is misunderstanding what's happening.

Or would you be thinking good on that person, we need to stand up to these bullies?

If you think it's the latter, then we need to define the rules for men and women working together. It's can't simply be "don't harass people", as we can see from this thread that that is totally subjective. We have people saying what happened was horrific, and other people saying it's totally harmless.

So what should the rules be?

Zero physical contact except for handshakes?

Jokes must not be about the following: staff, the company, politics, religion...?

Id be asking why is someone getting up from their own table & picking on two friends who are having a drink and a bit of craic?


And I'd probably tell him to fcuk off and mind his own business.

The Bishop Basher

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Surely harassment is harassment?

Of course it is..

But if it occurs outside your work environment then it has nothing to do with your employer.

A work night out is considered a work environment.

OMM 0000

Rennaws wrote: »

Of course it is..

But if it occurs outside your work environment then it has nothing to do with your employer.

A work night out is considered a work environment.

So then it comes down to how do you define, objectively, what is harassment.

It's an odd one.

I think it needs to be defined by HR, pre-offence.

Based on this thread it seems about half the people think what happened is harassment, and the other half think it wasn't harassment.

To have that sort of reaction from people, something is wrong somewhere...

I'm not a fan of "I know it when I see it".

thecomedian

rn wrote: »

The OP is guilty of form of harassment by their own admission. They are guilty of bullying, as it has been repeated on more than one occasion.

I've considered context in likely punishment... Note punishment in most companies policies for bullying is "up to and including dismissal".

It's not sexual harassment. It can be considered harassment.

Harassment is not just limited to the victim and head patter. The other witnessing employee has right to report and have the incident dealt with. Also incidents cannot be simply explained or excused by "it was just banter".

It's at a work party, which means all company policies apply.

I'm just giving the text book of how a company deals with it. Victim can still go down legal route. In which case natural justice applies.

The OP was accused of sexual harassment, which it wasn’t and it was a false accusation.
Now since you work in HR or management, what should happen to someone making a false sexual harassment claim on a fellow colleague?

The Bishop Basher

OMM 0000 wrote: »

So then it comes down to how do you define, objectively, what is harassment.

Exactly. And we’re all different which is why patting someone on the head and calling them Lil X in front of everyone on a work night out is never going to be a good idea.

What op and Lil X get up to in their own time is no one else’s business.

Rennaws

Rennaws wrote:

Exactly. And we’re all different which is why patting someone on the head and calling them Lil X in front of everyone on a work night out is never going to be a good idea.

What if someone mad a joke about getting an electric shock and someone who overheard had a family member die of electrocution? What if someone said jokingly that they'd murder a pint and someone's family member had been murdered? What if people just minded their own ****ing business and stop being perennially offended?

The Bishop Basher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What if someone mad a joke about getting an electric shock and someone who overheard had a family member die of electrocution? What if someone said jokingly that they'd murder a pint and someone's family member had been murdered? What if people just minded their own ****ing business and stop being perennially offended?

I don’t disagree but the reality is that people do get offended and if it happens on a work night out it can land you in the sh1t..

sydthebeat

Rennaws wrote: »

I don’t disagree but the reality is that people do get offended and if it happens on a work night out it can land you in the sh1t..

No problem at all with people getting offended with something said to / about them....

I have a serious problem however with a third party taking offence on someone else's behalf, especially when the second party obviously does not have an issue.

Those people are dangerous and need to be taught boundaries

The Bishop Basher

sydthebeat wrote: »

No problem at all with people getting offended with something said to / about them....

I have a serious problem however with a third party taking offence on someone else's behalf, especially when the second party obviously does not have an issue.

Those people are dangerous and need to be taught boundaries

I agree.. life would be simpler if people kept their nose out of other people’s business.

TomOnBoard

Rennaws wrote: »

Of course it is..

But if it occurs outside your work environment then it has nothing to do with your employer.

A work night out is considered a work environment.

If that is the case, then consumption of alcohol to the extent of having 'had a few' should have been clearly understood to have been unacceptable to the OP also. Which is patently ridiculous. You can't create social situations involving alcohol that continue workplace rules into such situations. If HR organisations facilitate such social outings and bring the office rulebook along with them, then they are likely to create behaviour traps for employees. Further, if a Christmas party is in fact a work 'do', then the employers should be paying for everything, including overtime for the participants.

The Bishop Basher

TomOnBoard wrote: »

If that is the case, then consumption of alcohol to the extent of having 'had a few' should have been clearly understood to have been unacceptable to the OP also. Which is patently ridiculous. You can't create social situations involving alcohol that continue workplace rules into such situations. If HR organisations facilitate such social outings and bring the office rulebook along with them, then they are likely to create behaviour traps for employees. Further, if a Christmas party is in fact a work 'do', then the employers should be paying for everything, including overtime for the participants.

I don’t make the rules.

But I’ve worked in a large corporate multinational for 20 years and I’m just saying how it works. Whether we like it or not, work nights out are still considered a work environment and getting drunk can get you in all sorts of trouble.

Laneyh

368100 wrote: »

So I was at the company Xmas party last night.


Theres a girl works with me and she is very short, like very very short. Her name is X. I get on very well with her.

Early in the night (but I had a fair few in me) I patted her head and christened her " Lil X" ....still think its quite funny, but when I did it another girl who ive never met before and who was in the conversation roared at me that it was sexual harassment.

Thinking she was joking I laughed and did it again and again she shouted the same. Ive never ever been even remotely been accused of something like that. I was in shock so just walked away and enjoyed the rest of the night, but i'm fairly annoyed about it.

X took it the way it was intended, as a joke....and I said to her afterwards that I hoped she didnt think that, and she said to forget about it, the other girl is just a bit odd.

Does anyone think it would even be close to being called out for sexual harassment? Im thinking of saying it to HR next week to cover myself, and make sure they know that there was nothing to it, as its a serious allegation to be thrown at someone.

Any thoughts?

You need to get better party tricks. It is definitely not sexual harassment but not all that funny either. Perhaps talk to X and see if she could have a quiet word with the other woman. If nothing has been said to HR and you go to them advising them an allegation was made they might be obliged to investigate it. Is it possible the accusing woman had also had lots of refreshment at that point ?

rn

Needs to be pointed out nobody has reported anyone at this point and it's likely no one will. Nothing kicks in until a complaint is made to management or HR.

In the private situation, it still could be perceived as harassment, but there no is no organisation with overall responsibility or h&s obligations.

For all those looking for clear well defined harassment definition, it's defined under law and companies are charged with implementing it. The courts can take into account any efforts by the company when making a decision, if it goes that far.

https://www.ihrec.ie/guides-and-tools/human-rights-and-equality-for-employers/what-does-the-law-say/sexual-harassment-and-harassment-in-the-workplace/

Sunflower 27

I think as well that the third party's reaction may have been alcohol-fuelled.

She may not remember the incident or feel embarrassed by her reaction on reflection

As long as your friend doesn't have a problem with what you did (and given the clear harmless nature of it) I can't see HR turning it into an issue - and it is doubtful it will come to that regardless.

Storm. Teacup.

Defaulter1831

rn wrote: »

The OP is guilty of form of harassment by their own admission. They are guilty of bullying, as it has been repeated on more than one occasion.

I've considered context in likely punishment... Note punishment in most companies policies for bullying is "up to and including dismissal".

It's not sexual harassment. It can be considered harassment.

Harassment is not just limited to the victim and head patter. The other witnessing employee has right to report and have the incident dealt with. Also incidents cannot be simply explained or excused by "it was just banter".

It's at a work party, which means all company policies apply.

I'm just giving the text book of how a company deals with it. Victim can still go down legal route. In which case natural justice applies.

Sounds a little like you've done a HR course and become an expert on all human interaction. Basing your 'assessment' on one post opening an internet thread. You don't know the context, haven't spoken to X, the OP or the 3rd party.

I think the old saying is true, 'a little learning is a dangerous thing'. If you're willing to pass judgement without seeking the facts as interpreted by all parties it's your professionalism that is in question.

Awkward moments happen. Given how upset the OP has felt and X has decided to move on I think it suggests it's probably something silly that both parties want to move on from. God help us none of us can have a silly moment without fear of job dismissal now.

Whatever happened to common sense. We're talking about adults, not kindergarten.

OMM 0000

rn wrote: »

https://www.ihrec.ie/guides-and-tools/human-rights-and-equality-for-employers/what-does-the-law-say/sexual-harassment-and-harassment-in-the-workplace/

Terrifying reading.

Can be summed up as:

If someone finds whatever you did offensive, you're ****ed.

So it's still very subjective.

rn

I have both training and experience in this area. I have been involved in handling several incidents to a conclusion.

Actually I want to clear one thing up. Because it got lost in my original post. I went straight for the formal company response in these cases.

It's most likely and best for everyone that absolutely nothing happens out of this. There's an annoyance with OP, for sure, but just let it go. All sides let it go.

The next best outcome is that OP talks directly with accuser and resolves their grievance informally and directly. This is also next most likely outcome between reasonable adults.

The worst case is both sides are making formal(written) complaints to HR, in which case I believe OP is likely to have a case to answer for harassment themselves. The accuser does have a case for mistakenly pointed out harassment as sexual harassment, however it's not a false or baseless accusation.