Does multiculturalism ruin Santa?

RayCun

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I believe in Santa quicker than God but if we are talking about Jesus then we can only go on what the Bible says. If you want to talk about spiderman then we can only go on the comic books.

There's lots of stuff in the bible that we can be pretty sure didn't happen

I'm curious how you decide that the traditional nativity story is right about the lambs and wrong about the date.

Sleeper12

I don't. I don't believe in any of it.

Edit: the date isn't correct. No one, not even the church believe that it's the 25th December. They had to pick a day & they picked a day on or close to a pagan celebration. They did this with all souls day and Halloween. They piggybacked the pagan mid winter celebrations for Christmas day.

As for the year, again the church acknowledge that it's off. It was a monk in the 3rd or 4th century started the bc/ad Callander. Its been proven that he made mistakes with his calculations.

At the end of the day the year & date don't matter to the church. From their point of view the important thing is to celebrate the birth of christ

Irish Guitarist

I'm not usually bothered with Christmas stuff but I watched this recently and thought it was interesting.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Other aspects expand and enrich the Santa story, like Zwarte Piet :

Is it just me or does that look like Bill Murray?

pleas advice

topper75 wrote: »

What system did they use before Jesus?

The people in 6BC wouldn't know what 6BC was.

Its currently 5779 in the Hebrew calender, though I'm not sure it was brought in, id presume sometime before christ

BBFAN

Cienciano wrote: »

Exactly, I don't know why people think there's a "war on Christmas". The odd shop in America might change from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays because a team of accountants and marketing people have worked out it will make them slightly more money and everyone loses their shít.


It offends no one, no need to pretend you're making a stand against some oppressors that don't exist.

"But they want to ban Fairytail of New York". There is no "they" and some idiot making a comment to get noticed is meaningless.

Tbf, I've spent Christmas in both America and Canada and ALL the retail staff say Happy Holidays, it's very annoying. I always reply Happy Christmas and they look around them in shock in case someone cops it. :rolleyes:

realitykeeper

thegreengoblin wrote: »

What a thread. A simple one word answer to the OP's question (hint: it's No) yet before you can say 'bloody foreigners' you get people stomping in, pitchforks at the ready, telling everyone loudly and proudly that they're not changing their traditions and if anyone doesn't like it they can go back to where they came from.

Except of course, literally no one is actually forcing them to change their ways.

The reason foreigners come here is another point that needs addressing. In Ireland, we pay ourselves far far too much. This has a duel effect of making black market labour in Ireland both available and desirable to many foreigners. Our high pay, (along with that of other developed countries) increases the cost of goods for sale across the planet and so it is difficult for people from poorer countries to buy internationally when we are paying top euro for the same goods with our high salaries and in currencies that are perceived as strong.

Paying ourselves ridiculously high pay is immoral, and very foolish on so many levels.

RayCun

topper75 wrote: »

What system did they use before Jesus?

The people in 6BC wouldn't know what 6BC was.

What system did who use?

The Romans identified years according to the consuls in power.
The Egyptians, I believe, named their years rather than numbering them.
Many people used the Seleucid calendar, with the starting point being the conquest of Babylon.

RayCun

pleas advice wrote: »

Its currently 5779 in the Hebrew calender, though I'm not sure it was brought in, id presume sometime before christ

No, later

realitykeeper

Deleted User wrote: »

The only argument that _has_ given me pause was from a user of this forum who suggested Santa Make Believe and subsequent outing of the conspiracy and lies could potentially be an inoculation against other bad ideas - like the evidence devoid theist nonsense you pedal.

Aha! I was right! Your loss of faith is the consequence of being lied to as a child.

I’m married to a foreign national. Their Christmas is celebrated Christmas Eve.
He’s learned to celebrate Christmas on Christmas Day. As it should be, mainly because it’s what my kids expected. Now that they’re adults, he plays along.
Early on in our relationship, he learned to accept our customs
As for Nativity plays, he’s embraced their meaning in our culture.

nthclare

realitykeeper wrote: »

The reason foreigners come here is another point that needs addressing. In Ireland, we pay ourselves far far too much. This has a duel effect of making black market labour in Ireland both available and desirable to many foreigners. Our high pay, (along with that of other developed countries) increases the cost of goods for sale across the planet and so it is difficult for people from poorer countries to buy internationally when we are paying top euro for the same goods with our high salaries and in currencies that are perceived as strong.

Paying ourselves ridiculously high pay is immoral, and very foolish on so many levels.

I don't think you're right about Irish being well paid.

There's couples taking home maybe 100k between them living in Dublin and up to their eyeballs in it.

I think Ireland's very expensive, but we're definitely not well paid...

Franz Von Peppercorn

topper75 wrote: »

What system did they use before Jesus?

The people in 6BC wouldn't know what 6BC was.

The Romans used the Julian calendar by then. In terms if years they tended to date from consulships.

All googled from.

https://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/roman.php

Franz Von Peppercorn

realitykeeper wrote: »

The reason foreigners come here is another point that needs addressing. In Ireland, we pay ourselves far far too much. This has a duel effect of making black market labour in Ireland both available and desirable to many foreigners. Our high pay, (along with that of other developed countries) increases the cost of goods for sale across the planet and so it is difficult for people from poorer countries to buy internationally when we are paying top euro for the same goods with our high salaries and in currencies that are perceived as strong.

Paying ourselves ridiculously high pay is immoral, and very foolish on so many levels.

Let’s pay everybody less and see what happens to aggregate demand. Your economics is not even wrong. You’d have to work at it to make it just wrong.

ohnonotgmail

RayCun wrote: »

No, later

The hebrew calendar predates christ. The method of calculating did change after he was "born" though.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The hebrew calendar predates christ. The method of calculating did change after he was "born" though.

So it didn’t really predate Jesus. Not in its current form. And Jesus was definitely born.

ohnonotgmail

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So it didn’t really predate Jesus. Not in its current form. And Jesus was definitely born.

It went from being calculated by observation to being calculated mathematically but the calendar is the same.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Carry wrote: »

I don't know what most of you are afraid of.

Where I come from we had loads of multicultural festivities, the more the merrier. There was of course the Christian Christmas, the Jewish Hannukkah and the Islamic Eid al-Fitr, also aptly called Sugar Festival in the Turkish community (they have the most delicious sweets...).
Now I have also friends who celebrate the pagan winter solstice.
Any occasion to party was (and is) welcome - to everyone.

All festivities have one thing in common: It's a wonderful get-together with lots of food and merriment, celebrated sometimes with different cultures.

We should get days off for all these festivals. That would encourage people to support multi culturalism. Carrot rather than stick.

The Rape of Lucretia

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We should get days off for all these festivals. That would encourage people to support multi culturalism . Carrot rather than stick.

Surely moving towards more days off based on religious festivals is a backward step for modern societies ? Europe, and Ireland even more recently, have not long left the grip of superstitious ritual governing celebrations and holidays. There is a lot more to culture than than that particular legacy, and the importing of more from elsewhere in the world is the last thing we need.

Franz Von Peppercorn

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Surely moving towards more days off based on religious festivals is a backward step for modern societies ? Europe, and Ireland even more recently, have not long left the grip of superstitious ritual governing celebrations and holidays. There is a lot more to culture than than that particular legacy, and the importing of more from elsewhere in the world is the last thing we need.

Working Christmas are we? No. I thought not.

It doesn’t have to be religious festivals but of course many cultures do in fact have religion as (traditionally) part of their culture, but you can enjoy your Diwali day off nevertheless. Go shopping. Nobody is asking you to believe.

You have, possibly inadvertently, exposed the lie in multi cultural ideologies. It isn’t about celebrating cultures and adding to the cultural mix in any given country, but reducing every country down to a deracinated bloodless secularism where people are born merely to shop, work, pay taxes and then shop again.

Rather than remove the mangers from the schools, throw in the odd Hindu God at Diwali. This would annoy two groups: fundamentalist catholics and fundamentalist atheists - a consumation devoutly to be wished.

emptyhouse2222

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The Rape of Lucretia

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

.

Ah yes. The traditional German WeihnachtsBetonPoller, such an integral part of Christmas markets since the middle ages.

emptyhouse2222

das is vollig normal
wir hatten immer polizei mit maschine gewaehr auf den weihnachtsmarkt

that is completely normal
we always had police with automatic weapons at the christmas market

uck51js9zml2yt

My kids know Santa's not real. I did however draw the line at one of their pals telling them the tooth fairy wasn't real and I just threw their teeth in the bin.

I will hate that child forever for telling my son the truth.

NSAman

As many have said Multiculturalism and PC BS ruin everything.

emptyhouse2222

NSAman wrote: »

As many have said Multiculturalism and PC BS ruin everything.

where are the threads complaining about the Chinese (great lads), or the polish, or the finnish
why do nazis only pick on africans and muslims

emptyhouse2222

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Ah yes. The traditional German WeihnachtsBetonPoller, such an integral part of Christmas markets since the middle ages.

christmas concrete explosions???

NSAman

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

where are the threads complaining about the Chinese (great lads), or the polish, or the finnish
why do nazis only pick on africans and muslims

Better ask Angela Merkel that!

emptyhouse2222

NSAman wrote: »

Better ask Angela Merkel that!

right before she steps off the trapdoor

Pauliedragon

What I want to know is who gave this fat North pole fcuker a visa to my country, drink flying all over the place. Are the guards doling out the breath test to this menace.

RayCun

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The hebrew calendar predates christ. The method of calculating did change after he was "born" though.

The idea of calculating the year since the day of creation appears to be from the middle ages
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Mundi

Days and months within the year are much older, yes

realitykeeper

nthclare wrote: »

I don't think you're right about Irish being well paid.

There's couples taking home maybe 100k between them living in Dublin and up to their eyeballs in it.

I think Ireland's very expensive, but we're definitely not well paid...

But don`t you see the folly of it all. First we borrow billions from abroad to outbid each other on whatever houses were for sale, and if that was not stupid enough we are now using borrowed billions to pay ourselves higher and higher wages when our work does not justify it. Sure we pretend to be worth it but cleaning an office in Dublin requires no more skill or effort than cleaning an office in Mali, yet we choose to pay the Dublin worker a hundred times more.

Also, the only reason we are paying these high wages is because people have a lot of debt, in other words we are borrowing to reblow a property bubble.

Common sense dictates that economies grow in a real way when work gets done and to get a lot of work done, work has to be at bargain basement prices, not at rip off prices. I just don`t see this ending well for Ireland.

BeerWolf

I got plenty of Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist friends that celebrate Christmas with the family.

Hell, a lot of Atheists do too.

Yay commercialism! Bringing everyone together!

RayCun

realitykeeper wrote: »

cleaning an office in Dublin requires no more skill or effort than cleaning an office in Mali, yet we choose to pay the Dublin worker a hundred times more.

that is crazy.

not the wage difference, your point.

topper75

realitykeeper wrote: »

But don`t you see the folly of it all. First we borrow billions from abroad to outbid each other on whatever houses were for sale, and if that was not stupid enough we are now using borrowed billions to pay ourselves higher and higher wages when our work does not justify it. Sure we pretend to be worth it but cleaning an office in Dublin requires no more skill or effort than cleaning an office in Mali, yet we choose to pay the Dublin worker a hundred times more.

Also, the only reason we are paying these high wages is because people have a lot of debt, in other words we are borrowing to reblow a property bubble.

Common sense dictates that economies grow in a real way when work gets done and to get a lot of work done, work has to be at bargain basement prices, not at rip off prices. I just don`t see this ending well for Ireland.

You can drop what you offer your Dublin cleaner. But then they decide it is not worth their while and the office stays dirty. That cleaner faces Dublin prices in shops, not Mali prices. The wage is arrived at the same way any price is arrived at: supply and demand.

Your thinking smacks of a command economy, where the forces of supply and demand are ignored and the state decides the price of everything. There aren't many left these days, maybe N. Korea. They are not doing well either.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

Aha! I was right! Your loss of faith is the consequence of being lied to as a child.

I never had faith in a god at any point - even as a child. So you are attempting to explain the loss of something that was never lost and I never had. Which is an odd approach to make to reality.

Is your need to type "I was right" so strong that it does not matter how wrong you actually were when typing it?

Sleeper12

BeerWolf wrote:

I got plenty of Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist friends that celebrate Christmas with the family.

It's definitely not just a Christian holiday that's for sure. The Christian part is the mass. The rest can be celebrated by anyone

NSAman

Ask anyone here where I am in the States:

Is it Happy Christmas? or is it Happy Holidays?

The VAST majority say it is Happy Christmas.

Despite the other religious holidays around the same time, most people will say that Christmas is Christmas.

It can be forced down our necks that we should not be celebrating simply Christmas but at the end of the day, jewish pals, still send me a Christmas card, indian mates wish me Happy Christmas.... much of it is PC gone completely flipping mental...

RayCun

If you say that most of the people you know say Happy Christmas, what exactly is being forced down your neck?
Are you outraged because there are some people who say Happy Holidays? Are they doing it just to annoy you?

realitykeeper

topper75 wrote: »

You can drop what you offer your Dublin cleaner. But then they decide it is not worth their while and the office stays dirty. That cleaner faces Dublin prices in shops, not Mali prices. The wage is arrived at the same way any price is arrived at: supply and demand.

Supply and demand? Are you for real? How expensive would milk be if farmers got their way and had a minimum price for milk and that is just one commodity. What if every single commodity had a minimum price? Price fixing the cost of labour is a manipulation of the labour market and it is a really bad idea.

Duck Soup

Santa is an illegal immigrant. Send him back to the North Pole.

realitykeeper

Duck Soup wrote: »

Santa is an illegal immigrant. Send him back to the North Pole.

The elves don`t have a minimum wage and see how productive they are.

Sky Blue 20

It is well known Santa is a ( white male )Protestant.

Zorya

27% of 4000 people surveyed in US and UK in 2018 believed that Santa should be female (10%) or gender neutral (17%). Multiculturalism may be way too slow in the race to ruin Santa.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zg6IGcFpVRsvytj0Ns0xsYeW8cOFbXC5_wxEn-WRPoU/edit#gid=0