Doctors that aren't doctors. Dr. that are not Dr.

mikhail

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

Yes, it's called a doctorate, which has made you a doctor for a thousand years.

You've made no argument for this bizarre demand that everyone change their language other than that you're too dim to understand the word has two meanings.

Dim, here, is the modern slang sense of "dull of apprehension, stupid" is from 1892, and not in the Old Norse meaning of dark or gloomy. You can, however, still use it for the original meaning.

scopper

I'm an academic Dr. and to be honest it's never really come up; certainly I've never had any confusion about it.

Basically the only time you might use the title is (a) speaking at a formal event, (b) on documents and (c) some students, especially foreign ones from more traditional societies, might insist on using it.

I'd not worry about the issue so much. I mean there's for sure bigger issues.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

scopper wrote: »

I'm an academic Dr. and to be honest it's never really come up; certainly I've never had any confusion about it.

Basically the only time you might use the title is (a) speaking at a formal event, (b) on documents and (c) some students, especially foreign ones from more traditional societies, might insist on using it.

I'd not worry about the issue so much. I mean there's for sure bigger issues.

Exactly. It just doesn't come up. Few academics will ever say "I'm a doctor." An engineer or computer scientist with a PhD will still say "I'm an engineer" or "I'm a computer scientist."

mikhail

Ezra Sticky Noblewoman wrote: »

Exactly. It just doesn't come up. Few academics will ever say "I'm a doctor." An engineer or computer scientist with a PhD will still say "I'm an engineer" or "I'm a computer scientist."

It goes beyond that. It's literally illegal to falsely claim to be a medical doctor.

Somedaythefire

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

That's not very fair logic. A person could spend 5/6 years doing anything, it shouldn't 'entitle' you to anything, except the piece of paper saying you have xyz qualification.

The word doctor should be reserved for folks who make the decisions in the provision of healthcare. If someone is a master engineer or carpenter they can call themselves whatever they want, but they shouldn't be called doctors.

Why? You keep saying this but not elaborating why that word should be used in the wrong context, but banned from being used in the proper context?

mikhail

mikhail wrote: »

It goes beyond that. It's literally illegal to falsely claim to be a medical doctor.

Anyone with a PhD is fully entitled to say they are a doctor, more so than a medical “doctor” imo.

Pintman Paddy Losty

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

All I can say, in my experience both as a student and a mentor, is.....


Absolute Poppycock!

Doc07

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not the other way around, no?

MD , the higher degree by research awarded by many Ireland and British Universities that is, not the professional title in North America, is the correct form for Doctor of Medicine. Same as PhD for Doctor of Philosophy

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

That’s odd, all the gold medallists on my course (those who get a really, really good first class honours degree) did doctorates.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That’s odd, all the gold medallists on my course (those who get a really, really good first class honours degree) did doctorates.

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

I don’t think you realize how hard a PhD is and that almost every innovation ever made came from research done by researchers with PhDs.

You won’t get accepted into a PhD without excelling in your undergrad or postgrad.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Probably an arts or sociology field where the employment options are very limited? Or did you graduate during the recession. That wouldn't normally be the case.

Nope, the hard sciences. General science splitting off into subjects such as physics, astrophysics, microbiology, biochemistry, neuroscience and chemistry. The recession has the square root of fúck all do with it. I graduated at the very beginning of the recession but our lab supervisors, who were all doctoral candidates, graduated during the Tiger. They were all high-achievers in their undergrads.

I have a 2:1 degree and was rejected for every PhD programme I applied for. It was a low 2:1 and wasn’t deemed good enough. The standards are high.

HamSarris

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

Excellent example of projection - Feels threatened by those more highly educated. Narcissistic defense kicks in order to deal with feelings of inferiority - Creates belief that those who get PhDs are just nerds who can't succeed in real life (on the basis of no empirical evidence). Feels better about himself and maintains grandiose sense of self.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nope, the hard sciences. General science splitting off into subjects such as physics, astrophysics, microbiology, biochemistry, neuroscience and chemistry. The recession has the square root of fúck all do with it. I graduated at the very beginning of the recession but our lab supervisors, who were all doctoral candidates, graduated during the Tiger. They were all high-achievers in their undergrads.

I have a 2:1 degree and was rejected for every PhD programme I applied for. It was a low 2:1 and wasn’t deemed good enough. The standards are high.

I've bolded the important part.

As I said in my OP obviously the lower end of the class (low 2.1 falls in this category) aren't going to pursue PhDs. Neither are the motivated high achievers.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I've bolded the important part.

As I said in my OP obviously the lower end of the class (low 2.1 falls in this category) aren't going to pursue PhDs. Neither are the motivated high achievers.

You conveniently ignored the part where I said that my lab supervisors were doctoral candidates who graduated with excellent degrees during the boom years. They would have their pick of industry jobs but plumped for doing a doctorate.

Oh and in my class a low 2:1 was in the upper end of the results. Many people got 2:2s and a handful got third class honours degrees. I ranked 7th in a class of 28. 2:1s were not handed out easily on my course.

You’ve made all sorts of assumptions in your replies to me. All of them wrong. It’s heavily indicative of a bias. When refuted, you grasp at another straw. Anything to protect the point you made.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

jimgoose wrote: »

FYP!

mikhail wrote: »

Yes, it's called a doctorate, which has made you a doctor for a thousand years.

You've made no argument for this bizarre demand that everyone change their language other than that you're too dim to understand the word has two meanings.

Dim, here, is the modern slang sense of "dull of apprehension, stupid" is from 1892, and not in the Old Norse meaning of dark or gloomy. You can, however, still use it for the original meaning.

Somedaythefire wrote: »

Why? You keep saying this but not elaborating why that word should be used in the wrong context, but banned from being used in the proper context?

I am willing to die on this hill. Old Norse God crap means nothing. If you call yourself a doctor but only know a lot about something irrelevant than you're not a doctor.

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

CinemaGuy45

mikhail

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

I don't see why not. Knowing nothing about anything certainly hasn't stopped you from being the gatekeeper for the English language.

feargale

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I am willing to die on this hill. Old Norse God crap means nothing. If you call yourself a doctor but only know a lot about something irrelevant than you're not a doctor.

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

You seem to have a problem with history.

So, apart from the fact that you don't have a doctorate what do you have?

pleas advice

feargale wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with history.

i presume you think a 'gay fággot' is a lovely bunch of sticks....?

jimgoose

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

Have you ever actually met anyone with a doctorate?? :pac:

jimgoose

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I am willing to die on this hill. Old Norse God crap means nothing. If you call yourself a doctor but only know a lot about something irrelevant than you're not a doctor.

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

AtomicHorror

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

In my experience those that have studied for and achieved a PhD tend to be those who weren't the brightest in their undergraduate or post graduate studies. Not the dumbest by any means but very much the mediocre. The ones who couldnt secure well paying employmeng outside and decided to stay in the safe cocoon of academia.

They also often suffer from an inferiority complex as a result and try to compensate by using their title.

This is especially true in the sciences.

Your experience is limited very in that case- I've known a few mediocre PhDs but they were very much in the minority- 5% or so at most- of the total I'd have had direct dealings with. The rest were top of their class types, mostly went into industry rather than post-doc (the recession tanked all the post doc opportunities anyway) and were very successful there- software development for the financial services, blockchain tech entrepreneur, NASA, Johns Hopkins... they've done very well.

I also don't know any PhDs who use the title of Doctor outside of their specific area of expertise. Typically use it when they go to conferences. Most of them sign off with PhD on emails, if it's for business, and again only if they wen't into business in the area they studied. Otherwise they just ignore the title entirely.

I don't know any Dr, medical or academic, who uses the title except in the most formal circumstances or on certain documentation.

I would assume the people with big problems with the mere existence of the title are probably a bit insecure. You have to work hard for a PhD, it's not awarded for clipping toenails and daydreaming.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Knowing a lot about a certain part of ancient history does not make you a doctor. :rolleyes:

The public seems quite aware of the distinction, OP. At least, I've never heard of anyone confusing a university history department with a hospital.

Ger Roe

Panthro wrote: »

Exactly what kind of doctor was Dr Who?

Ok, here is the nerd in me coming out.

Timelords have a tradition of keeping their actual name secret and picking an alternative name that is appropriate to their nature. In the case of our well known blue box travelling character, he chose the name 'The Doctor' because of his vocation to travel through time and space to help people.*

It is a name she/he picked to identify with throughout all of time.

* not sure how that intention holds out when 'The Doctor' regularly wipes out entire civilisations and destroys planets on a whim.

Mrs OBumble

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I am willing to die on this hill.

If you think you're in danger of death, I'd suggest consulting a physician: they can diagnose disease and recommend treatment, or refer you to a surgeon if a hands on intervention is needed.

jimgoose

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you think you're in danger of death, I'd suggest consulting a physician: they can diagnose disease and recommend treatment, or refer you to a surgeon if a hands on intervention is needed.

Apparently surgeons aren't doctors at all, preferring as they do the address of "Mr" or "Ms". :pac:

hynesie08

jimgoose wrote: »

Ah, good ol' Mr Cox........

bnt

The word "doctor" is from the Latin for "to teach", and academic doctorates have been awarded since the 13th century. Its use as a medical title only came later. So it's a bit late to start arguing this now. In the USA they use "MD" after the name to indicate a medical doctor - why not do that?

ProfessorPlum

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Except that most doctors on this side of the pond don’t have an MD. More confusion!



Most medical doctors will have 3 degrees. At least. And any who are fully trained (ie to consultant level) will have further postgraduate degrees, diplomas, and also may have a doctorate. Becomes cumbersome to insist on all of them being used when addressing them.

Three degrees at level 8 versus one degree at level 8, one masters at level 9 and a doctorate at level 10. The latter is still more entitled to the Dr in my opinion.

764dak

http://www.aswedeingermany.de/50LanguageAndWriting/50RealDoctors.html

The Tetrarch

Dr Vinny Boombatz
Every day when I wake up I look in the mirror and want to throw up. What's wrong with me?
I don't know, but your eyesight's perfect.

I told him I think my wife has VD.
He gave himself a shot of penicillin.

riclad

if you are famous you will get offered an honary degree from some university.i,m not sure what the point of this is, maybe good pr for the university.

buckwheat

.

Necro

Mod:

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