Advise on buying apartment vs house

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Hi there,

I'm in my late twenties and considering a property purchase close to the city center (20mins) in a decent area.

No kids or anything yet just a partner so one plan is to buy a 2 bed apartment and rent out the other room. Use this rent to pay most of the mortgage. Then save for 4/5 years and hopefully have enough of 20pc deposit on a home if needed, for 1/2 kids in 5-10 years time.

Would it make financial sense to do this or just to initially buy a 2/3 bed home right now also?

The only other option is to rent for 3/4 years and see where are then.

Any advice much appreciated.

the_syco

Pheonix10 wrote: »

No kids or anything yet just a partner so one plan is to buy a 2 bed apartment and rent out the other room. Use this rent to pay most of the mortgage. Then save for 4/5 years and hopefully have enough of 20pc deposit on a home if needed, for 1/2 kids in 5-10 years time.

Late 20's means her clock may be ticking shortly. If you plan to have kids, go with the house now. Otherwise you'll just end up renting the apartment whilst buying a house after you have lost your First Time Buyers mortgage conditions.

Also, living with couples isn't fun (it's always two people against you), and thus most people will try to avoid this.

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Would it make financial sense to do this or just to initially buy a 2/3 bed home right now also?

Buy the house now.

Moonjet

With kids on the horizon, personally I would go straight for the house with enough bedrooms and space for your future plans. A lot of people got burned during the recession with apartments. Children come along and you're stuck in negative equity in a 1/2 bed shoebox. That's assuming there will be another crash though which looks unlikely in the short/medium term.

You also have to consider costs of buying the apartment then moving again in future.

1) 5 years of management fees
2) double the costs involved in buying again (paying solicitor and stamp duty twice) + additional cost of paying estate agent to sell your apartment
3) emotional cost of moving again, can be a stressful and drawn out process

One last point, nobody can accurately predict the Irish property market over that length of time. Whether the market crashes or booms in that period, you're in trouble either way with the apartment when it's time to move. Your only hope would be that prices remain exactly the same over that period.

catrionanic

Buy the house. The best laid plans of mice and men.... well, life rarely goes to plan. We bought a teeny tiny starter home a few years ago, planning to stay there 5 years and move on. Children came along a lot faster than we thought and we ended up with two small children there and it was very tough. We escaped a few weeks ago... It really did feel like an escape! Fortunately we bought and sold at a time when we made a decent but if money on the property, but there are many people who have ended up trapped in these properties over the years.

Also, the stress of a house move with young kids is unreal. And expensive. Between solicitors, stamp duty, moving expenses, estate agent fees etc, our house move cost us 20k. Money we wouldn't have had to spend had we just bought the bigger house in the first place.

PhoenixParker

I would buy a 2 bed in which you could happily live with kids. Something in the 800sqft+ range with a small park within 500m.

Young kids don't need a garden and there's no need to subject yourself to a commute for years longer than necessary.

cloneslad

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm in my late twenties and considering a property purchase close to the city center (20mins) in a decent area.

No kids or anything yet just a partner so one plan is to buy a 2 bed apartment and rent out the other room. Use this rent to pay most of the mortgage. Then save for 4/5 years and hopefully have enough of 20pc deposit on a home if needed, for 1/2 kids in 5-10 years time.

Would it make financial sense to do this or just to initially buy a 2/3 bed home right now also?

The only other option is to rent for 3/4 years and see where are then.

Any advice much appreciated.

I had a similar predicament about 18 months ago. We were paying €1,500 a month in rent and decided we were better off to buy as we had a good deposit and it was better than constantly saving to add to it while also paying rent for a small apartment we didn't like.

We had set out to buy an apartment as, just like you, there was nly two of us. We averaged out at late 20's...thanks to her being 26 We don't want kids so a 2 bedroom apartment suited us. We also wern't looking to rent out any rooms either - we aren't 'people' people.

ANyway, long story short, we bought a new build house that was in our budget, but quite a bit more than we would have spent on an apartment. We now have a living room we don't use, a couple of bedrooms we rarely use excpet when we have the odd guest and we turned one into an office which sometimes gets use.

We have three bathrooms - the main one upstairs (th eone with the bath) is never ever used.

We have a back garden which got great use during the summer for BBQs and giving me something to do by painting the fence / cutting grass etc.

We also have an attic that we can convert should we wish to make more rooms we won't ever use.

Would we have gotten on okay in an apartment? Yes

Do we have rooms we don't use in the house? Yes

Do I regret not buying a smaller apartment and saving some money? Nope, not event a little.

I love having the house. It's only when you move into it after years and years of apartment living do you realise what you missed.

Having neighbours chatting outside (not to us obviously - see not 'people' people comment above), hearing kids play out the front etc and having an actual community feel to the place is also an added extra I never got when I lived in apartment buildings before.

Obvously do what makes sense for you but if you are planning to have kids in 4-5 years anyway and you can afford a house you like in an area you like then go for it.

incentsitive

Only ever buy somewhere that you are happy to live for 20+ years, especially in our current price scenario (probably overpriced). At least that way negative equity etc doesn't have the same impact other than the lad next door buying a cheaper house and you'll have a property to suit your children and family life.
Just ask the 07 buyers who bought apartments and are still stuck in them. Thankfully, I am not one of them as I delayed buying.
Buy the house I would say. It'll suit your needs long-term. Either that or keep renting and see what happens.

kippy

If you can afford the house, buy the house.

cloneslad

incentsitive wrote: »

Only ever buy somewhere that you are happy to live for 20+ years, especially in our current price scenario (probably overpriced). At least that way negative equity etc doesn't have the same impact other than the lad next door buying a cheaper house and you'll have a property to suit your children and family life.
Just ask the 07 buyers who bought apartments and are still stuck in them. Thankfully, I am not one of them as I delayed buying.
Buy the house I would say. It'll suit your needs long-term. Either that or keep renting and see what happens.

This ^^

We bought in an area we both really like and can see ourselves living in for the forseeable. That doesn't mean we won't ever move somewhere else but we are happy to live here and pay what we are paying.

We also have the upshot of there being no more new builds in here that some smug bugger can buy at 50% of our house should the market tank.

JustMe,K

Buy the house, its always going to be easier to trade down than trade up if thats what you want to do. Like others have said, no one knows what way the property market will go so if you are buying anything it should be with a long term view.

Diemos

cloneslad wrote: »

...thanks to her being 26 We don't want kids so a 2 bedroom apartment suited us.

If I had a euro for everytime I heard that one......but I'm sure you will be different. :pac::pac:

cloneslad

Diemos wrote: »

If I had a euro for everytime I heard that one......but I'm sure you will be different. :pac::pac:

ha ha, if I had a euro for evertime I had someone tell me that we'd change our minds...

Who knows what the future holds but I'm almost 35 and I don't intend changing mine anytime soon. We both like kids but just for an hour or two then we can go back to taking naps whenever we want.

Idbatterim

Id be very wary of apartments here. Any noise issues? good luck. Many issues that arise, maintenance wise, will be totally out of your control... You might pay the management fee, will your neighbours? I would be very wary of apartments having lived in several of them and currently living in one!

GreeBo

Either way, dont buy anything that you wont be happy to still be in 10 years down the road.

This country is full of people commuting from places they dont want to live in but are stuck ni due to negative equity.

Dont buy somewhere miles away from where you want to be in the future, just because you are getting more space for less money.

Cushie Butterfield

I’d advise to skip the apartment stage altogether.

Find a house a bit further out from city than the 20 mins you mentioned. Somewhere with decent primary & secondary schools & perhaps somewhere not too far from a family member. An area with plenty of sporting facilities eg GAA clubs that cater for both girls & boys, or other facilities such as swimming, karate, music or whatever. If you don’t have these facilities close to you you’re going to spend a large chunk of your time commuting anyway.

An earlier poster suggested that a spacious two bed where kids could happily live with a park nearby - that’s fine, but bare in mind & imagine the reality of hawking a baby/toddler along with all the trappings from a second or third floor apartment, through numerous fire doors & out into a car park. Forget one item after strapping the child in.....nightmare, numerous trips up & down to car park to unload shopping etc. Add numerous other disadvantages & you’d be driven crazy - just my opinion of course, but something to consider.

Do your research now as if you have a one year old & another on the way :eek:

dubrov

Whatever you go for, consider if you had to live in it for 10 years with 1-2 kids.
You can live fine in a 2 bed apartment with 1 child. 2 might be doable for a couple of years.

You should run the numbers yourself to see what will put you in a a better financial position in a few years.

Here are a few things to consider:

Buy apartment then house - Management fees, Solicitor Fees, Monthly mortgage payment, Equity in property, Loss of FTB status
Wait and buy house - Would need 10% instead of 20% deposit, Rent

dubrov

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

I’d advise to skip the apartment stage altogether.


An earlier poster suggested that a spacious two bed where kids could happily live with a park nearby - that’s fine, but bare in mind & imagine the reality of hawking a baby/toddler along with all the trappings from a second or third floor apartment, through numerous fire doors & out into a car park. Forget one item after strapping the child in.....nightmare, numerous trips up & down to car park to unload shopping etc. Add numerous other disadvantages & you’d be driven crazy - just my opinion of course, but something to consider.

I don't think the above are major issues in relation to living with a toddler in an apartment. On the plus side, apartments have no stairs to worry about and are generally warmer than houses. A lift for the buggy is a must though.

mrslancaster

agree with others, there's no contest imo.

Many posters on this forum think apartment living is great and I agree it was, before we had a family. I think a house is more practical.

A house gives you more options down the line if you plan on having kids. with kids you will be glad to have a garden, even a small one. If you have a car, you'll be glad to be able to park outside your front door if you have a small baby, toddler or a few kids.

It's all well and good having a park nearby but if you want your kids to spend time outdoors when they are young then your own garden is more practical.

Our back garden was used constantly during school holidays. There's no way we could have organised daily trips to a park with all the kids stuff. there's a lot of extra stress right there before you even get to the park, then packing it all up to get home, No thanks!

Gardens are great for summer and winter to enjoy the weather, family bbq's, parties, or even growing your own veg or having space for a dog to run around if you want a pet. Over the years we had many kids parties and family celebrations where we used the extra space in the garden.

If you ever need more room you can extend the house or convert the attic and you have space for a shed to store things like bikes.

No annual management fees which can increase over time.

as another poster said there are huge costs and lots of stress to sell an apartment and buy a house and there is never an ideal time to do that especially with kids and schools.

We lived in both and i agree with others who said go for the house if you can afford it. depending on your budget there are many established areas 20 minutes from Dublin with great transport links, good schools, creches, shops, sports facilities etc. Best of luck.

PhoenixParker

I personally know plenty of people living in apartments with children. The troubles you describe are the most minor of inconveniences. Most barely use their car because they live a short walk from all the amenities they need, including shops. A big shop, by one of them, once every fortnight for the bulky stuff and theyre grand.

Most Irish apartments are too small to be comfortable for long term living but since 2006 or so, the new building regs have resulted in apartments that are suitable for long term living and kids.

People obsess about a garden, but if you're both working, commuting long distances, and your kids are in creche, at best you'll get ten afternoons a year to enjoy it and youll spend another 5-10 on garden maintenance. Under 3s cant be kicked out to the garden alone so there's little difference to a nearby park and over 8s are mostly going to want to be out with friends - something well facilitated by an apartment block with an enclosed courtyard.

Is it better to get home at 530 and spend an evening with kids sans garden or at 630 for the house with a garden? The equation changes if one of you is home full time, but that's not the norm these days.

As a nation we have to start stopping amd thinking about the whole lifestyle that goes with our property purchases, not just our fantasy ideal that if we look at too closely we discover we don't want too much.

kippy

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I personally know plenty of people living in apartments with children. The troubles you describe are the most minor of inconveniences. Most barely use their car because they live a short walk from all the amenities they need, including shops. A big shop, by one of them, once every fortnight for the bulky stuff and theyre grand.

Most Irish apartments are too small to be comfortable for long term living but since 2006 or so, the new building regs have resulted in apartments that are suitable for long term living and kids.

People obsess about a garden, but if you're both working, commuting long distances, and your kids are in creche, at best you'll get ten afternoons a year to enjoy it and youll spend another 5-10 on garden maintenance. Under 3s cant be kicked out to the garden alone so there's little difference to a nearby park and over 8s are mostly going to want to be out with friends - something well facilitated by an apartment block with an enclosed courtyard.

Is it better to get home at 530 and spend an evening with kids sans garden or at 630 for the house with a garden? The equation changes if one of you is home full time, but that's not the norm these days.

As a nation we have to start stopping amd thinking about the whole lifestyle that goes with our property purchases, not just our fantasy ideal that if we look at too closely we discover we don't want too much.

Apartment living in Ireland, even with the new regs, is not suitable for a family in an ideal scenario.
Anyone who suggests it is has never lived in an apartment in Ireland with a family.
Granted people do, but if you were to ask them they would prefer to life elsewhere.

Things on the continent may be different in fairness.

Moonjet

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I personally know plenty of people living in apartments with children. The troubles you describe are the most minor of inconveniences. Most barely use their car because they live a short walk from all the amenities they need, including shops. A big shop, by one of them, once every fortnight for the bulky stuff and theyre grand.

Most Irish apartments are too small to be comfortable for long term living but since 2006 or so, the new building regs have resulted in apartments that are suitable for long term living and kids.

People obsess about a garden, but if you're both working, commuting long distances, and your kids are in creche, at best you'll get ten afternoons a year to enjoy it and youll spend another 5-10 on garden maintenance. Under 3s cant be kicked out to the garden alone so there's little difference to a nearby park and over 8s are mostly going to want to be out with friends - something well facilitated by an apartment block with an enclosed courtyard.

Is it better to get home at 530 and spend an evening with kids sans garden or at 630 for the house with a garden? The equation changes if one of you is home full time, but that's not the norm these days.

As a nation we have to start stopping amd thinking about the whole lifestyle that goes with our property purchases, not just our fantasy ideal that if we look at too closely we discover we don't want too much.

Are you trying to sell an apartment or something? :pac: 10 afternoons a year? I spent the evenings of nearly 5 months (April-August) in my back garden this year with all the heatwaves.

Moonjet

dubrov wrote: »

On the plus side, apartments have no stairs to worry about

Except the stairs you have to haul your baby/pram/shopping/bikes up when the lift is out of order.

mrslancaster

PhoenixParker wrote: »

... The troubles you describe are the most minor of inconveniences.

....Is it better to get home at 530 and spend an evening with kids sans garden or at 630 for the house with a garden? ....

Imo, it is certainly not a minor inconvenience to grapple on a daily basis with all the additional work, responsibilities and equipment that goes with kids of any age.

If both parents are working then anything that makes life a little less stressful is good including something like unpacking buggies or bags of groceries and bulky stuff outside your own front door.

Nobody likes commuting long distances to work but I would rather get home at 6.30 and be able to use our own garden for the rest of the evening, every evening or every weekend all year round, instead of the occasional trip to a nearby park or enclosed courtyard.

Each to their own i suppose.

dubrov

kippy wrote: »

Apartment living in Ireland, even with the new regs, is not suitable for a family in an ideal scenario.
Anyone who suggests it is has never lived in an apartment in Ireland with a family.

Are you basing that on experience or some generic idea of apartments in your head? Not all apartments are suitable to raise families but plenty are.

Everyone has different priorities and I'd certainly put location, size of indoor spaces and build quality way ahead of things like a garden and proximity of the car to the front door.

The gardens for new builds in Dublin are tiny these days suggesting a lot of people feel the same

Idbatterim

“Everyone has different priorities and I'd certainly put location, size of indoor spaces and build quality way ahead of things like a garden and proximity of the car to the front door.”

Build quality ? In Irish apartments? It’s reason number one I wouldn’t touch them. Endless doors and gates banging. Pumps , impact noises , lifts, neighbors potentially above and below you and both sides! What happens if apartment is let out on short term basis like Airbnb , your “home” will turn into a **** show, likewise with **** neighbors. Ireland is the Wild West , people can do as they like , while you go through your “legal Channels “ when you’re at your wits end and and it will still come to nothing ! that is why I wouldn’t touch an apartment unless there is no other option. At least if the house is only of average construction, you’ll only have one or two direct neighbors! Ideally go detached, that’s the dream !

An_Toirpin

Buying a property should be expected to be a rare event so bear that in mind.

A lot people point to management fees as a argument against apartments but all houses being built these days have management fees. You have to look at it case by case.

kippy

dubrov wrote: »

Are you basing that on experience or some generic idea of apartments in your head? Not all apartments are suitable to raise families but plenty are.

Everyone has different priorities and I'd certainly put location, size of indoor spaces and build quality way ahead of things like a garden and proximity of the car to the front door.

The gardens for new builds in Dublin are tiny these days suggesting a lot of people feel the same

I am basing that on experience of Irish apartments.
I've been in plenty apartments, lived in a few. Thankfully a long time ago.

JimmyMW

Have recently built a house with a large kitchen/dining/play area internally. Only the house is finished, externally the whole place is still a site and while it is great to have the space internally, especially on the wet days, we cant wait to have some outside garden space for the little ones especially in the summer. Private outside space was well missed by us this past summer, even with a playground and green space within walking distance.

An_Toirpin

Idbatterim wrote: »

“Everyone has different priorities and I'd certainly put location, size of indoor spaces and build quality way ahead of things like a garden and proximity of the car to the front door.”

Build quality ? In Irish apartments? It’s reason number one I wouldn’t touch them. Endless doors and gates banging. Pumps , impact noises , lifts, neighbors potentially above and below you and both sides! What happens if apartment is let out on short term basis like Airbnb , your “home” will turn into a **** show, likewise with **** neighbors. Ireland is the Wild West , people can do as they like , while you go through your “legal Channels “ when you’re at your wits end and and it will still come to nothing ! that is why I wouldn’t touch an apartment unless there is no other option. At least if the house is only of average construction, you’ll only have one or two direct neighbors! Ideally go detached, that’s the dream !

Very few people mind living near an AirBnb place. Ireland is actually excessively regulated. We are the wet blanket west of Europe.

Mike3549

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Buying a property should be expected to be a rare event so bear that in mind.

A lot people point to management fees as a argument against apartments but all houses being built these days have management fees. You have to look at it case by case.

This is true, but houses usualy pay 300 a year, where 2-3 bed apartments with lifts are 1500 - 2k

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

A house, a house, a house a thousand times! Too many variables with an apartment, especially in Ireland.