Brexit Discussion Thread VI

intellectual dosser

ambro25 wrote: »

I was in Oxford earlier this week for business, taking the time to chat with locals (business types, but also others: hotel, bar, pub, petrol station, bus staff; British hotel guests...) and to catch national news between meetings and work. First time back in the U.K. nearly a year after brexoding, in a neck of the woods I don’t know much at all.

It didn’t seem that many cared that much about Brexit. There wasn’t active disengagement from the topic as such, more like a mix of disinterest and fatalism not conducive of pursuing about the topic. At street level, it very much felt like the country’s got Brexit fatigue and has relegated the affair to background noise / ‘whatever-ism’.

Not a good thing.

My experience as well when visiting before Christmas.

I have a family member working over there who says that her work colleagues not only don't talk regularly about Brexit, but are completely oblivious as to whats coming down the road in the next few months.

BonnieSituation

And some of us get criticised for having the temerity to say that English people are less engaged politically than Irish people?

Sam Russell

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

On Pat Kenny on newstalk this morning they had a piece asking locals in Strabane about Brexit. Some gems like

Q. How do you feel about Brexit?
A. What is Brexit?

Q. What do you know backstop?
A. Yes, we are going back to stop and search

Listen back on newstalk should have these

My reaction to hearing those - particularly the first - was that we are in for some paramilitary activity on the border if it is reimposed as a hard border.

J Mysterio

ambro25 wrote: »

I was in Oxford earlier this week for business, taking the time to chat with locals (business types, but also others: hotel, bar, pub, petrol station, bus staff; British hotel guests...) and to catch national news between meetings and work. First time back in the U.K. nearly a year after brexoding, in a neck of the woods I don’t know much at all.

It didn’t seem that many cared that much about Brexit. There wasn’t active disengagement from the topic as such, more like a mix of disinterest and fatalism not conducive of pursuing about the topic. At street level, it very much felt like the country’s got Brexit fatigue and has relegated the affair to background noise / ‘whatever-ism’.

Not a good thing.

I think many dont want to discuss it as it risks an argument, so it's avoided, and brushed under the carpet. Its split families etc. down the middle.

BonnieSituation

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

On Pat Kenny on newstalk this morning they had a piece asking locals in Strabane about Brexit. Some gems like

Q. How do you feel about Brexit?
A. What is Brexit?

Q. What do you know backstop?
A. Yes, we are going back to stop and search

Listen back on newstalk should have these

I actually did hear that.

Yer man saying "what is Brexit?" Was clearly displaying nationalist facetiousness.

Sam Russell

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I actually did hear that.

Yer man saying "what is Brexit?" Was clearly displaying nationalist facetiousness.

Exactly.

An Ciarraioch

Article 50 to be extended past the European elections? Ironically, Farage could prove the first casualty, given the UK system for electing MEPs, unless he joins another party:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1083699422591176706

Seth Brundle

And yet another financial institution decides to move part of its operations out of the UK...

One of Japan’s largest banks has blamed Brexit for its decision to move part of its business to Amsterdam, 24 hours after Theresa May sought to enlist the Japanese prime minister in the fight to save her deal with the EU.

Norinchukin bank announced plans to set up a wholly owned subsidiary in the Dutch capital, a move that critics of the prime minister’s deal cited as evidence that both a no-deal Brexit and her deal were likely to damage the UK economy.

The bank said in its statement on Friday morning that the decision had been made “in response to the planned withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union, and other changes to the economic environment in Europe”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/11/japanese-bank-blames-brexit-for-move-to-amsterdam

robinph

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Article 50 to be extended past the European elections? Ironically, Farage could prove the first casualty, given the UK system for electing MEPs, unless he joins another party:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1083699422591176706

Could she then be cancelling the vote scheduled for next Tuesday again so that she doesn't go on the history books with being defeated?

Would be a major change of tactic if applying to extend article 50 though, and she'd need to have something other than going back to the EU for clarifications. Such as needing time to hold a referendum.

Laois_Man

Not sure if Bryan Dobson's interview with Boris has been mentioned here.

Boris, caught in a corner with the line of questioning, takes Dobbo's notes to scoff at them

Dobbo's retort was fabulous and drew a loud ovation.

https://twitter.com/SweetLikeAli/status/1083397600311734272

amacca

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Article 50 to be extended past the European elections? Ironically, Farage could prove the first casualty, given the UK system for electing MEPs, unless he joins another party:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1083699422591176706

If most of the tweets/comments below are indicative of what the majority feel:(

Tell me how

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

VinLieger

Tell me how wrote: »

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

Thats last guy...... i just can't.... the complete lack of understanding and refusal to accept how international trade works and how trade deals are negotiated is mind boggling.


Fine the rest of the world is great to trade with but you need a bargaining chip like size of market. Outside the EU the UK has literally one bargaining chip and thats Visa's, its all anyone from asia will be looking for when negotiating a trade deal which is beautifully ironic due to brexit being sold to people as reducing immigration.

robinph

Tell me how wrote: »

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

Nope, that is fake news right there.

I only caught bits of it but they have just creatively edited it. For starters there is @femmi_sorry on the end of one of the rows who is undoubtedly not a leaver.

MrMusician18

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And some of us get criticised for having the temerity to say that English people are less engaged politically than Irish people?

There are few people going to talk politics with a random stranger outside the context of an interview.

When you look at equally controversial topics here like abortion, you'd only ever get a few bland sentences from the average Joe before the conversation would end.

When you surround yourself with the politically engaged it gives the false impression that everyone is. Look at how many voted for Casey on the back of one remark.

ambro25

Folkstonian wrote: »

Probably more to do with the fact that it doesn’t come naturally to English people to unload all their personal views on as controversial a topic as Brexit to a literal stranger.

I know that I’d feel quite uncomfortable if I was in a pub (or a petrol station!) and a man I didn’t know asked me about Corbyn, or immigration or universal credit etc. I expect I’d politely try and bat it off!

I wouldn’t confuse an outward display of apathy towards debate with being completely disinterested in the future of the country though.

There’s a world of difference between ‘asking strangers about Corbyn, immigration, universal credit’ and holding general and free-flowing conversations with a brief aside or mention of Brexit (in as broad, unspecific and uncontentious a form as it gets).

Likewise there is a perceptible difference between an elephant in the room everyone wilfully ignores, and ‘nothing’ in the room.

I hardly need introducing to the British character: it’s not as if I didn’t live in the (provincial, northern, non-London) U.K. for the last 20+ years, nor wasn’t married to a Brit for the last 25 years.

J Mysterio

Tell me how wrote: »

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

Shocking

LeinsterDub

Tell me how wrote: »

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCiCcF47RhQ

bilston

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My experience as well when visiting before Christmas.

I have a family member working over there who says that her work colleagues not only don't talk regularly about Brexit, but are completely oblivious as to whats coming down the road in the next few months.

To be fair there is a very good reason work colleagues wouldn't talk about it. It is incredibly divisive.

Strazdas

bilston wrote: »

To be fair there is a very good reason work colleagues wouldn't talk about it. It is incredibly divisive.

It's probably far easier for us in Ireland to discuss Brexit (and we 'are' discussing it). Try and bring it up in conversation with someone in the UK and you've no idea if they have the polar opposite opinion and are very annoyed by what you are saying - in Ireland, most people think the thing is nuts, so it is easy to discuss.

lawred2

Tell me how wrote: »

Did anyone see the young peoples debate on C4?

This video is from Leave.EU but I am wondering what was the full show like.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1083481920900599814

That's been edited to death

Tell me how

robinph wrote: »

Nope, that is fake news right there.

I only caught bits of it but they have just creatively edited it. For starters there is @femmi_sorry on the end of one of the rows who is undoubtedly not a leaver.

Femmi was part of a group of 4 who were activists on Brexit who were taking part in the discussion. Two leave, Two remain.

lawred2 wrote: »

That's been edited to death

Just watched the whole thing. If you had no knowledge of Brexit, you'd say that there was probably a majority in favour of leaving even within that group.

The strongest most passionate speakers who probably spoke the most were all for leaving. I suspect that it was not a simple cross section of society however, either the production team tried to ensure that there was an equal number or activists groups made sure that they got people in the door. Jon Snow did make a point in it that polls indicate that 60% of 18-20 year olds want a second vote and 87% want to remain.

One thing that was refreshing about it was that most people were able to speak about the issue without resorting to party politics which we see happen amongst those elected to Parliament. They have yet to be corrupted to perform as such.

Like watching underage hurling/football where they haven't been coached to be cynical as we see with senior teams.

10000maniacs

prawnsambo wrote: »

He's had worse. Only the other day he tweeted this:

Disgraceful. I am glad I don't live in that environment. Very hostile over there now.

Russman

I watched that C4 news segment and was shocked at how little they seemed to "get" what was coming down the line at them if/when they leave. There was one guy in particular going on and on about making their own trade deals with the world, and nobody picked him up on a) what the rest of the world might want to buy from Britain and b) why they would buy it when they can get it from the EU already.
TBH I'm still struggling a little to believe they can be that misinformed/uninformed over there. Unless the dangers are, in fact, overstated by everyone else, which is unlikely - nobody has a reason to do that.

10000maniacs

Tell me how wrote: »

Femmi was part of a group of 4 who were activists on Brexit who were taking part in the discussion. Two leave, Two remain.


Just watched the whole thing. If you had no knowledge of Brexit, you'd say that there was probably a majority in favour of leaving even within that group.

The strongest most passionate speakers who probably spoke the most were all for leaving. I suspect that it was not a simple cross section of society however, either the production team tried to ensure that there was an equal number or activists groups made sure that they got people in the door. Jon Snow did make a point in it that polls indicate that 60% of 18-20 year olds want a second vote and 87% want to remain.

One thing that was refreshing about it was that most people were able to speak about the issue without resorting to party politics which we see happen amongst those elected to Parliament. They have yet to be corrupted to perform as such.

Like watching underage hurling/football where they haven't been coached to be cynical as we see with senior teams.

I don't buy the argument that most 18 year old kids will vote for remain. If you are an 18 year old lad from Leeds, Sheffield or Newcastle with very little prospects and your family much the same, they will be asking "What has the status quo of being in the EU ever done for me or my family?" Remain = more of the same.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

I watched that C4 news segment and was shocked at how little they seemed to "get" what was coming down the line at them if/when they leave. There was one guy in particular going on and on about making their own trade deals with the world, and nobody picked him up on a) what the rest of the world might want to buy from Britain and b) why they would buy it when they can get it from the EU already.
TBH I'm still struggling a little to believe they can be that misinformed/uninformed over there. Unless the dangers are, in fact, overstated by everyone else, which is unlikely - nobody has a reason to do that.

It is quite extraordinary how ill-informed people are. I saw a youngish labour supporter tweeting that they could just make everything in Britain and didn't need imports. It was so off the wall it was hard to respond to. You'd wonder how you can get through an education and come out the other side so ill-equipped for the world.

Tell me how

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't buy the argument that most 18 year old kids will vote for remain. If you are an 18 year old lad from Leeds, Sheffield or Newcastle with very little prospects and your family much the same, they will be asking "What has the status quo of being in the EU ever done for me or my family?" Remain = more of the same.

It wasn't my poll but Jon Snow using it in a question to Jeremy Corbyn and Jeremy not challenging it gives it some credence in my view.

I mean, he didn't tell him "You know nothing, Jon Snow."

lawred2

Russman wrote: »

I watched that C4 news segment and was shocked at how little they seemed to "get" what was coming down the line at them if/when they leave. There was one guy in particular going on and on about making their own trade deals with the world, and nobody picked him up on a) what the rest of the world might want to buy from Britain and b) why they would buy it when they can get it from the EU already.
TBH I'm still struggling a little to believe they can be that misinformed/uninformed over there. Unless the dangers are, in fact, overstated by everyone else, which is unlikely - nobody has a reason to do that.

Why would you expect them to be any more informed than their older country folk?

Tell me how

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would you expect them to be any more informed than their older country folk?

Do you think that the general Irish population is less or more informed on political matters than we perceive the UK population to be?

ancapailldorcha

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that the general Irish population is less or more informed on political matters than we perceive the UK population to be?

I don't know if it's this. Ireland's media isn't dominated by a few oligarchs who have been spreading anti-EU propaganda for decades.