Brexit Discussion Thread VI

Zubeneschamali

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

May rules out a customs union, which suggests the plan is simply to carry on the same course

May is in no position to rule anything in or out.

Frank Bullitt

Foster said: "There is no need for the backstop. Lord Lilley has already made reference to the fact that the Irish Prime Minister has indicated that he will not be putting up a hard border on the island of Ireland.

"You know, as someone who lived through The Troubles, we never had a hard border in Ireland."

The DUP's Sammy Wilson says that the only hard border on the island of Ireland was due to the "actions of Republicans".

Good to see consistency within the DUP.

nice_guy80

The problem for the lib dems is that the voting system in the UK completely favours the two big parties, especially Tories

Folkstonian

Leroy42 wrote: »

I always find this hard to understand.

Yesterday on C4 news, a Labour shadow minister was havig a go at the Lib Dems for the failings on the LibDems in the coalition. It is right that they are held accountable, but they were junior partners in a coalition. Coalitions have no real history in the UK, so it is clear that the LibDems played their hand really badly.

But if voters are going to hold parties to account for ever on how they performed in government, then surely Labour taking the UK into Iraq is a far worse betrayal of voters than third level fees. Surely the poll tax, the bedroom tax, the universal social scheme etc are far worse. Why the lib dems being held to such a high standard when they were junior partners in the first place

That was Richard Burgon, I think?

He’s as dense as tungsten and a thoroughly unpleasant individual too.

But he’s of the far left, so inevitably he’s a member of the shadow cabinet in the era of Corbyn.

He got that interview really wrong. Bawling nastily at poor Jo Swinson, using really aggressive rhetoric, I think on multiple occasions calling the tories ‘enemies’. Not appropriate, not helpful and totally not befitting of a supposedly senior politician in the current climate.

It’s been discussed a lot in this thread whether the Labour Party are any less inept than May’s government. Burgon, among others, are compelling arguments for labour being the most hapless of them all.

Professor Moriarty

Gintonious wrote: »

Good to see consistency within the DUP.

They're lying. There was a customs border from 1923 to 1993 until the advent of the Single Market.

Panrich

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

May rules out a customs union, which suggests the plan is simply to carry on the same course:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/no-10-rules-out-customs-union-before-cross-party-talks-begin

She confirmed this in her speech, saying:


"What I want to see is what the British people voted for. They voted for an end to free movement, they voted for an independent trade policy, they voted to end the jurisdiction of the European court of justice. And it is incumbent on this parliament to ensure that we deliver on that."

What really grinds my gears on this line of argument is if even 1 in 25 leave voters wanted to leave the bureaucracy of the EU but remain in the customs union, then there is a majority in the country for that view overall.

ToBeFrank123

Northern Ireland has far more to lose from a hard border, customs checks, delays etc than the south on the island of Ireland.

In 2016, 30 per cent of Northern Ireland’s exports – £2 billion (€2.3 billion) – were sent to the Republic; a much greater percentage than the goods going the other way. Just 1 per cent of the Republic’s exports, worth £1 billion, went to Northern Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/report-reveals-extent-of-north-s-dependence-on-trade-with-the-republic-1.3539430

That being said we will suffer from transporting to the UK mainland and using it as a land route to the continent.

There's no real winners with a hard border and no deal Brexit. The DUP are shooting themselves and their voters in the foot.

J Mysterio

Hurrache wrote: »

An excellent website on the border, with a great interactive map to each border crossing and associated terrorist incidents that occurred at each one.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/borderlands/keeping-peace
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/borderlands/the-border

That's a great resource. Nice one.

Winters

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

They're lying. There was a customs border from 1923 to 1993 until the advent of the Single Market.

And trade has changed so much in the 25+ years since then also.

Risteard81

Thomas_IV wrote: »

I'd rather reckon with the UK not requesting an extension but just go full no-deal Brexit by 29th March 2019.

I believe No Deal would be the best outcome, and it's about time someone taught the so-called "EU" this lesson. Theresa May's "deal" (it wasn't actually agreed given that it was rejected) is appalling and a no deal hard Brexit frankly was always the best outcome. It is a nonsense to suggest that no-one supports a no deal scenario.

lawred2

Risteard81 wrote: »

I believe No Deal would be the best outcome, and it's about time someone taught the so-called "EU" this lesson. Theresa May's "deal" (it wasn't actually agreed given that it was rejected) is appalling and a no deal hard Brexit frankly was always the best outcome. It is a nonsense to suggest that no-one supports a no deal scenario.

What's with all this so called nonsense?

MrMusician18

lawred2 wrote: »

What's with all this so called nonsense?

The laundry must be done with all the socks around here

thefishone

Has anyone asked the people of NI something like this.

Now that brexit is going to happen,which would you prefer,

1-Hard border
2-Backstop

Give them a say in brexit and possibly a way around the DUP.
Although Scotland might not be happy.

Calina

Risteard81 wrote: »

I believe No Deal would be the best outcome, and it's about time someone taught the so-called "EU" this lesson. Theresa May's "deal" (it wasn't actually agreed given that it was rejected) is appalling and a no deal hard Brexit frankly was always the best outcome. It is a nonsense to suggest that no-one supports a no deal scenario.

I really do not think you know what you are talking about.

Why do you believe No deal would be best?

Calina

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake! How EXACTLY is the leader of the opposition supposed to avert Brexit without first defeating the Government?

And he just did it by 230 votes!

Remainers would apparently prefer him to label Labour the Remain party even if that costs him votes next time and leaves the Tories in power.

I struggle to give Labour credit for last night's defeat. How exactly did he get 118 tories to vote with him?

Risteard81

Calina wrote: »

I really do not think you know what you are talking about.

Why do you believe No deal would be best?

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

Also the so-called "EU" is a despicable organisation which seeks to force its will on every country. Let us not forget the crimes of Nice 2 and Lisbon 2. I support every effort to ensure the destruction of the so-called "EU" and I believe a no deal scenario is the best way forward. When I voted for Brexit I was voting for the hardest Brexit possible. That hasn't changed.

Metroid diorteM

You say “its will” is “on” every country, but I would suggest that “its will” is actually *of* every country.

J Mysterio

Risteard81 wrote: »

I believe No Deal would be the best outcome, and it's about time someone taught the so-called "EU" this lesson. Theresa May's "deal" (it wasn't actually agreed given that it was rejected) is appalling and a no deal hard Brexit frankly was always the best outcome. It is a nonsense to suggest that no-one supports a no deal scenario.

God, posts like this just boggle the mind.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea the damage a 'No Deal Brexit' would cause.

Popping in here on the day of the No Confidence vote in May to leave that little nugget will not be well received.

If you want to be educated, pay heed to those who have the energy to set you straight here - I don't. If you're not willing to do that, best just take that useless soundbyte and cut your losses now. Same for everyone else of that vein.

I'm struggling to keep up with the absolute madness of Brexit now, its just becoming too taxing after 2.5 years of lies, damn lies, ignorance and incompetence. The UK have set a new bar for ridiculousness in politics and they are just about ready to destroy their country for generations.

micosoft

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

Also the so-called "EU" is a despicable organisation which seeks to force its will on every country. Let us not forget the crimes of Nice 2 and Lisbon 2. I support every effort to ensure the destruction of the so-called "EU" and I believe a no deal scenario is the best way forward. When I voted for Brexit I was voting for the hardest Brexit possible. That hasn't changed.

And what happens when it destroys the United Kingdom instead as appears apparent?

I am bemused that you regard Irelands democratic vote as a crime but I suspect you are one of those who supports final "enabling" act...

A Dub in Glasgo

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-eu-ready-to-delay-withdrawal-until-next-year-j20f9rm3h

photo website hosting

Captain Obvious

Risteard81 wrote: »

I believe No Deal would be the best outcome, and it's about time someone taught the so-called "EU" this lesson. Theresa May's "deal" (it wasn't actually agreed given that it was rejected) is appalling and a no deal hard Brexit frankly was always the best outcome. It is a nonsense to suggest that no-one supports a no deal scenario.

The first line makes this sound like satire. Why do you call it the "so called "EU""?

prawnsambo

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The first line makes this sound like satire. Why do you call it the "so called "EU""?

He never answers this question. But he doesn't recognise the Irish government either, so I really wouldn't bother.

A Dub in Glasgo

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

Also the so-called "EU" is a despicable organisation which seeks to force its will on every country. Let us not forget the crimes of Nice 2 and Lisbon 2. I support every effort to ensure the destruction of the so-called "EU" and I believe a no deal scenario is the best way forward. When I voted for Brexit I was voting for the hardest Brexit possible. That hasn't changed.

Good for you

The use of so-called "EU" marks you out as an immature lad

FrancieBrady

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

No you didn't because it simply wasn't an option on the ballot paper.

You may have voted to leave the EU but there are many ways to do that, as we have seen and the referendum campaign was as confused and befuddled as the UK political class is now.
As we have seen also, there were others who were way ahead of the game in terms of understanding the ramifications of leaving.

judeboy101

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-eu-ready-to-delay-withdrawal-until-next-year-j20f9rm3h

photo website hosting

Unless its for a referendum or a GE, postponing will just give the impression that the EU are afraid of losing the UK, nothing will change if may keeps her job, her "red lines" and while the DUP hold the leash. This will only give the brexiteers more time to push the "they need us more than we need them".

Bit cynical

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-eu-ready-to-delay-withdrawal-until-next-year-j20f9rm3h

Ireland is also in favour of extending A50.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

Also the so-called "EU" is a despicable organisation which seeks to force its will on every country. Let us not forget the crimes of Nice 2 and Lisbon 2. I support every effort to ensure the destruction of the so-called "EU" and I believe a no deal scenario is the best way forward. When I voted for Brexit I was voting for the hardest Brexit possible. That hasn't changed.

It is called the EU.
Or do you refer to the UK as the so called UK?
The so called UK has a far greater despicable past than the so called EU.
You want the hardest Brexit possible, that financially will hurt so many people reliant on the state. Sums you up really.

A Dub in Glasgo

Bit cynical wrote: »

Ireland is also in favour of extending A50.

for another 12 months?

artanevilla

Is there any point in extending? Does anyone actually believe a deal can be reached that the British parliament will approve?

branie2

I think they should cancel Brexit