Brexit Discussion Thread VI

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Enzokk wrote: »

No, Labour can have as many no confidence motions as they want against the government.

lawred2 wrote: »

Nah that's just a Tory leadership party rule

Imreoir2 wrote: »

No. There could be another vote of no confidence tomorrow, though it's unlikely given the margin tonight.

thanks guys!

A Dub in Glasgo

Breakdown of the vote, I think the independent that voted for May was that ex Labour MP who is up on sex charges who clearly does not want to lose his job in an election



https://twitter.com/MammothWhale/status/1085593694022107136

Akrasia

Labour spokespeople coming out now saying that they still want to push for a general election

This is utterly utterly farcical. I hope the Labour party membership rise up immediately against the front bench and demand that the roadmap agreed at their conference is respected.

Corbyn has only a few days left to redeem himself.

j8wk2feszrnpao

As pointless a vote as the Brexit one the preceded it.
A Labour leader with the conviction to take a proper and formal stand on Brexit would be PM in no time. Corybyn is incompetent, as are those that stand behind him.

The one vote they really need, a second Brexit referendum (for the county to make a final statement after all the rubbish since the first), will be resisted by May as they country and Parliament continue to fight internally.

DOCARCH

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Breakdown of the vote, I think the independent that voted for May was that ex Labour MP who is up on sex charges who clearly does not want to lose his job in an election.

Could be Sylvia Hermon? Independent unionist?

Folkstonian

I thought Michael Gove’s speech was really excellent. His appraisal of Corbyn was absolutely spot on.

Im really not sure how things proceed now. It’s a bit late in the day for crisis talks between party leaders, but Labour and the SNP don’t seem interested in the offer anyway.

devnull

Akrasia wrote: »

Labour spokespeople coming out now saying that they still want to push for a general election

Unfortunately Corbyn and his comrades have decided that their mantra is no longer going to be 'for the many, not the few' and instead has become 'for me, not for you' as the power crazed Corbynistas have become so power crazed that they have completely took the eye off the ball and the fact that they are supposed to be doing what is best for the people of the country and what their members and their fellow MPs want.

Jeremy Corbyn wants power and this is the only thing that concerns him right now, he is thinking about it all the time and is so obsessed with trying to achieve this that he has lost the focus on what is best for the men, women and children of the UK and to keep them in jobs, keep the healthcare system running and making sure that people are looked after.

It's about time that the Labour Party stood up and was counted, but unfortunately the leadership is preventing them from doing so. This is no time for party politics and power obsessed moves, it's a time of national crisis and the politicians need to do what is right for the country rather than what is right for themselves.

Unfortunately, it seems their loyalty to their party, their obsessions to remain in power and keep their jobs and blind ideology and delusions are far more important to them than the welfare of the people in the country and that is the saddest element of all about this whole farce.

MrMusician18

Folkstonian wrote: »

I thought Michael Gove’s speech was really excellent. His appraisal of Corbyn was absolutely spot on.

Im really not sure how things proceed now. It’s a bit late in the day for crisis talks between party leaders, but Labour and the SNP don’t seem interested in the offer anyway.

Interesting in that he went on the attack rather than a defend the government's record.


Sounded more like a stump speech tbh

I have to say that it's absolutely disgraceful that MPs on the one hand overwhelmingly reject the government's flagship policy and indeed only policy then declare confidence in that same Government.

Utterly spineless.

Captain Obvious

VinLieger wrote: »

So what was the point of all that then?

I guess it puts some pressure on the DUP. That's about all really.

A Dub in Glasgo

Folkstonian wrote: »

It’s a bit late in the day for crisis talks between party leaders, but Labour and the SNP don’t seem interested in the offer anyway.

The Tories have rubber eared the SNP and Scotland on Brexit and now wants to talk :pac:

Folkstonian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Interesting in that he went on the attack rather than a defend the government's record.


Sounded more like a stump speech tbh

I have to say that it's absolutely disgraceful that MPs on the one hand overwhelmingly reject the government's flagship policy and indeed only policy then declare confidence in that same Government.

Utterly spineless.

No it isn’t. Do you really think Conservative MPs would, or should, ever back a motion of no confidence in their PM tabled by a far left opposition leader with a seriously unpalatable inner circle of influencers and advisors?

Brexit is bad. But there are worse things that could befall the country than even leaving the EU. A Corbyn led government is one such thing and I’m glad that Tory remainers voted the way they did tonight.

There are ways out of this pickle without giving Jeremy the keys to number 10

Enzokk

Folkstonian wrote: »

I thought Michael Gove’s speech was really excellent. His appraisal of Corbyn was absolutely spot on.

Im really not sure how things proceed now. It’s a bit late in the day for crisis talks between party leaders, but Labour and the SNP don’t seem interested in the offer anyway.

His government still doesn't have support for their deal, there isn't any time to negotiate another deal and they still have the record of being accused multiple times of misusing statistics, being in contempt of parliament and losing a vote by a record margin. Other than everything is fine as he spelled out with such fire and conviction.

MrMusician18

Folkstonian wrote: »

No it isn’t. Do you really think Conservative MPs would, or should, ever back a motion of no confidence in their PM tabled by a far left opposition leader with a seriously unpalatable inner circle of influencers and advisors?

Brexit is bad. But there are worse things that could befall the country than even leaving the EU. A Corbyn led government is one such thing and I’m glad that Tory remainers voted the way they did tonight.

There are ways out of this pickle without giving Jeremy the keys to number 10

It doesn't have to be Corbyn. Where is the coalition of the willing? Why is no one trying to build one?

Enzokk

May will have a meeting with the other leaders of their respective parties later but Labour will not be present. They want her to take no-deal off the table and her refusal to do that means he will not meet with her.

https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1085626375812403200

I would guess that meeting will be interesting with May having to eat the DUP threats of her job in their hands (their 10 votes is the swing vote in a no confidence motion) but at the same time having the SNP and Lib Dems fighting for a soft Brexit. Still won't have enough votes to get a deal through because if she goes with what the DUP wants then her rebels in her party votes it down.

Strong and Stable indeed.

Roanmore

I'm surprised this wasn't done earlier. Having said that with the brass neck some of these politicians have I'd say they don't care.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/billboard-campaign-reminds-voters-of-mps-brexit-promises?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR1IpUagvYzPanRARizRFER4gVrhnUkfVP1Ao4KFQtC0Gm_pMnyGexnUHXU

Donald Trump

Enzokk wrote: »

May will have a meeting with the other leaders of their respective parties later but Labour will not be present. They want her to take no-deal off the table and her refusal to do that means he will not meet with her.

https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1085626375812403200

I would guess that meeting will be interesting with May having to eat the DUP threats of her job in their hands (their 10 votes is the swing vote in a no confidence motion) but at the same time having the SNP and Lib Dems fighting for a soft Brexit. Still won't have enough votes to get a deal through because if she goes with what the DUP wants then her rebels in her party votes it down.

Strong and Stable indeed.

A swing of 10 would have been 316-315.




Now imagine if only there was another party in Northern Ireland with at least two seats who could take over the mantle of having the sway of power from the DUP. That would be interesting wouldn't it. But surely they'd be over there already representing their voters....wouldn't they?

Akrasia

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately Corbyn and his comrades have decided that their mantra is no longer going to be 'for the many, not the few' and instead has become 'for me, not for you' as the power crazed Corbynistas have become so power crazed that they have completely took the eye off the ball and the fact that they are supposed to be doing what is best for the people of the country and what their members and their fellow MPs want.

Jeremy Corbyn wants power and this is the only thing that concerns him right now, he is thinking about it all the time and is so obsessed with trying to achieve this that he has lost the focus on what is best for the men, women and children of the UK and to keep them in jobs, keep the healthcare system running and making sure that people are looked after.

It's about time that the Labour Party stood up and was counted, but unfortunately the leadership is preventing them from doing so. This is no time for party politics and power obsessed moves, it's a time of national crisis and the politicians need to do what is right for the country rather than what is right for themselves.

Unfortunately, it seems their loyalty to their party, their obsessions to remain in power and keep their jobs and blind ideology and delusions are far more important to them than the welfare of the people in the country and that is the saddest element of all about this whole farce.

The irony is that if Corbyn delivered a 2nd referendum and pulled remain out of the jaws of a May driven crash out, he would probably win the next General election and the Tories would be lost for a generation.

The vast majority of the UK population do not want to crash out. May is refusing to take that off the table and can be quoted over and over again saying that she supports 'no deal' over 'a bad deal'


Corbyn can swoop in and save the day, rescue the UK from the trainwreck while having the political cover that he tried everything he could to get brexit through, but the Tory party themselves voted confidence in their government so he had no choice but to go for a 2nd referendum.

He has so much political cover, the only remaining explanation for why he's refusing to call for a referendum is his own personal ideology.

The last hope is that his own party revolt against him and he is forced to respect the conference against his will.

Enzokk

Donald Trump wrote: »

A swing of 10 would have been 316-315.




Now imagine if only there was another party in Northern Ireland with at least two seats who could take over the mantle of having the sway of power from the DUP. That would be interesting wouldn't it. But surely they'd be over there already representing their voters....wouldn't they?

The result was 325 to 306. If they voted against her it would have been 316-315 and the motion would have carried.

Edit:

You are right, I misread your post a bit. The DUP looks even more powerful now than they did before and that is scary.

A Dub in Glasgo

Donald Trump wrote: »

Now imagine if only there was another party in Northern Ireland with at least two seats who could take over the mantle of having the sway of power from the DUP. That would be interesting wouldn't it. But surely they'd be over there already representing their voters....wouldn't they?

Not this shite again

Donald Trump

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Not this shite again

What's shite about it?


Fair enough if they are happy to allow the DUP free reign to have huge influence over the future of the entire island of Ireland.



No point MLMcD going on RTE afterwards to moan about Leo et al if the UK government disintegrates by a single vote and results in a hard Brexit now is there?


But then again, maybe that is what the people up North want - to stay under the Union Jack.


If I was in such a position I'd be phoning the bould Theresa and telling her I'd send over enough votes to save her but it's either remain in the customs union or the backstop stays and a border down the Irish sea followed by a border pole in 10 years.

A Dub in Glasgo

Donald Trump wrote: »

What's shite about it?


Fair enough if they are happy to allow the DUP free reign to have huge influence over the future of the entire island of Ireland.



No point MLMcD going on RTE afterwards to moan about Leo et al if the UK government disintegrates by a single vote and results in a hard Brexit now is there?


But then again, maybe that is what the people up North want - to stay under the Union Jack.


If I was in such a position I'd be phoning the bould Theresa and telling her I'd send over enough votes to save her but it's either remain in the customs union or the backstop stays and a border down the Irish sea followed by a border pole in 10 years.

This is a post of mine from October in the last thread when the topic of SF abandoning their absentionist policy came up so that they can vote in the HoC pertaining to Brexit

'People should not be naive to think that the minute SF steps into Westminster to participate in parliamentary votes, that all the other MPs will vote the same way they would have if SF were not there. There is more liklihood of plenty more MPs voting against anything SF vote for than the number of votes SF bring to the table. With this in mind it is a total irrelevance to include SF in any calculation'

Enzokk

Donald Trump wrote: »

What's shite about it?


Fair enough if they are happy to allow the DUP free reign to have huge influence over the future of the entire island of Ireland.



No point MLMcD going on RTE afterwards to moan about Leo et al if the UK government disintegrates by a single vote and results in a hard Brexit now is there?


But then again, maybe that is what the people up North want - to stay under the Union Jack.


If I was in such a position I'd be phoning the bould Theresa and telling her I'd send over enough votes to save her but it's either remain in the customs union or the backstop stays and a border down the Irish sea followed by a border pole in 10 years.

SF campaigns on not taking up their seats. We can postulate about what would and could have happened but it will not change anything. All they have to do now is just let the DUP do what they are doing as they are promoting a united Ireland more than SF ever could by taking up their seats in Westminster.

We have had this same discussion a few times on here already so it is a repeat for those that have been posting here a while. It pops up every few months when there is close votes in Westminster.

Anthracite

prinzeugen wrote: »

Punishment. But there is a wee flaw in the EU plan.

As one poster said "exploding toasters". The likes of Lidl and Aldi will be fecked.

Aldi and Lidl are both growing like gangbusters.

Strange British consumers, thrilled by cheaper (lower standard) food, but also thrilled by more expensive toasters from...where?

J Mysterio

They are representing their constituents by not sitting in Westminster.

Aidric

Akrasia wrote: »

He has so much political cover, the only remaining explanation for why he's refusing to call for a referendum is his own personal ideology.

Nail on the head. Grudgingly you have to almost give him credit for sticking to his principles but this is politics. If he really believed in Brexit when has he articulated his views as to how it could be a success?

He is a no mark to beat all no marks.

Capt'n Midnight

Donald Trump wrote: »

What's shite about it?


Fair enough if they are happy to allow the DUP free reign to have huge influence over the future of the entire island of Ireland.

During one of the referendums down here (Lisbon?) when there were lots of claims and counter-claims, there was more than one person who voted for it because "if SF are against it ..."

The only vote I could see SF voting in would be in the final one that removes NI from the UK, and even then it's unlikely.

Lady Silvia is the only Anti-Brexit MP from NI, even though they voted to remain and every organisation , apart from the DUP, want to remain in the EU.

super_furry

Corbyn wants Brexit, that's clear now, whether the Labour members do is the real question because the only way to stop it is to replace him.

Capt'n Midnight

Anthracite wrote: »

Aldi and Lidl are both growing like gangbusters.

Strange British consumers, thrilled by cheaper (lower standard) food, but also thrilled by more expensive toasters from...where?

TBH I'm not even sure you can use the lower standard thing. Both have won awards.

Used to shop in Superquinn, only went back to Supervalu once , when they gave vouchers after the takeover. Everything was at least twice the price and some of the own-brands were muck.

Hurrache

British politik continues on that downwards trajectory
https://twitter.com/DavidCoburnUKip/status/1085637096172335105?s=19

Water John

SNP, LibDems & Plaid Cumyru are also telling TM that she needs to take No Deal Brexit. They'll be telling her that tonight. Don't think there'll be any further talks until she does. Not a remarakably diff stance to Lb.