Brexit Discussion Thread VI

prawnsambo

Tell me how wrote: »

Well done Caire.

Irish media following Coveney's/McEntee's lead with straightforward knives through the BS.

"you voted against the Lisbon treaty"
"We renegotiated the treaty and voted for it"
"Well, it doesn't matter really"


All the soundbites hit to the boundary with a straight bat. Well done Claire Byrne. I wouldn't have been as polite.

listermint

prawnsambo wrote: »

"you voted against the Lisbon treaty"
"We renegotiated the treaty and voted for it"
"Well, it doesn't matter really"


All the soundbites hit to the boundary with a straight bat. Well done Claire Byrne. I wouldn't have been as polite.

She should have gone for the jugular with the unelected jibe because that plank has been elected several times. Call them out on every inch of bs

Headshot

What time are the votes tomorrow?

Pocaide

7pm as far as I know.

J Mysterio

Tell me how wrote: »

I think we all need about 5 years to take a breath after this before we go in to either of these scenarios to be honest.

Better to get it all out of the way and reset.

BonnieSituation

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1090022946264023041

Hermann Kellys former master trying to spin Ireland leaving the EU...despite a close to 90% favourability rating within Ireland.

"...I want Europe out of the European Union. I want a group of democratic sovereign states working closely together..."

So Nigel wants a collective of States pooling together their sovereignty for the greater good instead of a Union of States pooling their sovereignty together for the greater good?

Now, I'm no expert, but that's the sort of 'out-of-the-box' thinking that just might work!

Strazdas

prawnsambo wrote: »

"you voted against the Lisbon treaty"
"We renegotiated the treaty and voted for it"
"Well, it doesn't matter really"


All the soundbites hit to the boundary with a straight bat. Well done Claire Byrne. I wouldn't have been as polite.

You never see the hard Brexiteers being tackled like this on the BBC - they are allowed spout their lies and rubbish at will

CrabRevolution

Gintonious wrote: »

Hermann Kellys former master trying to spin Ireland leaving the EU...despite a close to 90% favourability rating within Ireland.

The predictions of an exodus of countries from the EU have gotten a lot quieter lately. I posted it before but it's still a great cartoon from Thomas Taylor at Politico:

Is ANY option going to get a majority in the HoC tomorrow? The Cooper/Boles amendment seems to be stalling a bit now. Labour shadow ministers such as John Trickett nervous about the 9 month delay to Brexit according to the Guardian as it may be seen amongst Labour Leave voters as going against the 2016 result. This period may need to be shortened to entice more on board.

An Claidheamh

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1090022946264023041

Hermann Kellys former master trying to spin Ireland leaving the EU...despite a close to 90% favourability rating within Ireland.

Lord Haw Haw

Personally, I secretly enjoyed the fact that a pro-Provo Derryman was involved with UKIP.

It used to wind them up so much!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farages-key-aide-ira-8072605.amp

MrMusician18

Details of the new plan C emerging, with some remainer and ERG support
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1090024833432338432

Seems unlikely Ireland or the EU would go for this, essentially it's asking for the negotiation of the backstop to be kicked into the transition period.

Then again, who knows...

Leonard Hofstadter

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Details of the new plan C emerging, with some remainer and ERG support
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1090024833432338432

Seems unlikely Ireland or the EU would go for this, essentially it's asking for the negotiation of the backstop to be kicked into the transition period.

Then again, who knows...

To use Brexit like thinking, what's in it for us? This is just a total and utter shambles. This approach also ignores the fact that trading under WTO rules requires a border on this island.

MrMusician18

I couldn't agree more. Though I think we will need to genuinely see the public panicking before it gets resolved.

A run on the shops that leads to empty shelves in advance of Brexit could be the wake up call required. Until Brexit hits home tangibly to the average man in the street, this could remain unresolved.

lawred2

CrabRevolution wrote: »

The predictions of an exodus of countries from the EU have gotten a lot quieter lately. I posted it before but it's still a great cartoon from Thomas Taylor at Politico:

That a Swiss Domino standing at the end?

Calina

lawred2 wrote: »

That a Swiss Domino standing at the end?

Denmark.

lawred2

Calina wrote: »

Denmark.

Ah yeah.. cheers. Great cartoon alright.

lawred2

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Details of the new plan C emerging, with some remainer and ERG support
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1090024833432338432

Seems unlikely Ireland or the EU would go for this, essentially it's asking for the negotiation of the backstop to be kicked into the transition period.

Then again, who knows...

Sorry but there is quite literally nothing in that about the backstop and how it could eventually be mutually agreeable. Not even a rough framework for discussion.

Two and a half years these lads have had. And that's the sum total of their contribution.

What an absurd shower of useless politicians

20silkcut

Will a hard crash out brexit change your attitude to the UK?

LeinsterDub

Water John wrote: »

Peston says Tory MPs have said to him they have lost all faith in TM.

They should have voted as such when they had the chance so

VinLieger

20silkcut wrote: »

Will a hard crash out brexit change your attitude to the UK?

In what way do you mean?

Peregrinus

20silkcut wrote: »

Will a hard crash out brexit change your attitude to the UK?

Yes. I will regard the country with mingled pity and horror.

Christy42

So this is why they are not worried about a no deal. Even the harshest they want effectively sees them in the union till 2021!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47037365

However it does seem to read like a deal would be required to extend the transition arrangement like this?

Wonder if we will see howls of betrayal over this.

lawred2

Christy42 wrote: »

So this is why they are not worried about a no deal. Even the harshest they want effectively sees them in the union till 2021!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47037365

However it does seem to read like a deal would be required to extend the transition arrangement like this?

Wonder if we will see howls of betrayal over this.

They can vote for whatever they like. Doesn't mean much without an agreement with the remaining EU members.

And the EU won't agree to that.

So this is just more meaningless nonsense.

prawnsambo

That ERG plan

It's pretty short on detail actually. In fact it's probably unkind to say that a junior cert student would have done a better job of producing a plan like that. It really looks like something that started life on the back of a fag packet and was padded out a bit to fill a page.

VinLieger

Christy42 wrote: »

So this is why they are not worried about a no deal. Even the harshest they want effectively sees them in the union till 2021!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47037365

However it does seem to read like a deal would be required to extend the transition arrangement like this?

Wonder if we will see howls of betrayal over this.

That article held absolutely nothing of substance, just a lot of ifs and buts from Laura and Katya who have been shown to be pretty awful with judging their sources of information in the last few months

Leroy42

I really like this line from the BBC article:

Conservative MPs have been told to back a proposal for an alternative to the Irish backstop - the insurance policy against the return of a hard border.

So what is the alternative to the backstop that has been proposed? Seems to me that the alternative is to simply remove it and take up the option of the additional year of transition that was already provided for the WA.

But what will the EU make of this? Effectively, the UK is putting off leaving the EU until at least Jan 2022. That would the UK more than enough to quite down the more extreme elements within the HoC and possibly even cancel the whole thing altogether. It may be hoped that putting it off until at least 2022, and probably further, will end up with the majority simply giving up on the whole thing.

But it avoids a hard border, at least until 2022, avoids any change in the budget, avoids any problems with trade etc.

But all it really does it push the can down the road. But there is a lot to be said for pushing things like this down the road.

lawred2

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really like this line from the BBC article:



So what is the alternative to the backstop that has been proposed? Seems to me that the alternative is to simply remove it and take up the option of the additional year of transition that was already provided for the WA.

But what will the EU make of this? Effectively, the UK is putting off leaving the EU until at least Jan 2022. That would the UK more than enough to quite down the more extreme elements within the HoC and possibly even cancel the whole thing altogether. It may be hoped that putting it off until at least 2022, and probably further, will end up with the majority simply giving up on the whole thing.

But it avoids a hard border, at least until 2022, avoids any change in the budget, avoids any problems with trade etc.

But all it really does it push the can down the road. But there is a lot to be said for pushing things like this down the road.

Is part of this amendment to formally seek an extension?

FrancieBrady

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really like this line from the BBC article:



So what is the alternative to the backstop that has been proposed? Seems to me that the alternative is to simply remove it and take up the option of the additional year of transition that was already provided for the WA.

But what will the EU make of this? Effectively, the UK is putting off leaving the EU until at least Jan 2022. That would the UK more than enough to quite down the more extreme elements within the HoC and possibly even cancel the whole thing altogether. It may be hoped that putting it off until at least 2022, and probably further, will end up with the majority simply giving up on the whole thing.

But it avoids a hard border, at least until 2022, avoids any change in the budget, avoids any problems with trade etc.

But all it really does it push the can down the road. But there is a lot to be said for pushing things like this down the road.

Meanwhile they continue to rip themselves apart internally? Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

That ERG plan

It's pretty short on detail actually. In fact it's probably unkind to say that a junior cert student would have done a better job of producing a plan like that. It really looks like something that started life on the back of a fag packet and was padded out a bit to fill a page.

I just love how it refers to allowing both parties to prepare for WTO rules - they still can't get that they're the tiny party in a discussion with, effectively, an economic superpower (for all its faults). The EU doesn't have to concern itself with WTO issues.
As for their term "mutually beneficial" - that seems to really mean "what we want ourselves". Off the wall crazy.

Hurrache

Christy42 wrote: »

So this is why they are not worried about a no deal. Even the harshest they want effectively sees them in the union till 2021!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47037365

However it does seem to read like a deal would be required to extend the transition arrangement like this?

Wonder if we will see howls of betrayal over this.

Thats been already debunked last night by people who appeared to be in the know.