Brexit Discussion Thread VI

L1011

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

From my reading of the subject, he didn't seek all that much. Passports weren't even mentioned and the emergency brake thing was there already. The UK was never going to enter the Eurozone without its own consent and the "Ever closer union" concession was utterly meaningless considering that EU states have to ratify the treaties.

Passports as in the colour, which they were free to change anyway; or something else?

ancapailldorcha

L1011 wrote: »

Passports as in the colour, which they were free to change anyway; or something else?

Color. Half-baked not to factor that in but then half-baked describes the whole process to be honest.

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

From my reading of the subject, he didn't seek all that much. Passports weren't even mentioned and the emergency brake thing was there already. The UK was never going to enter the Eurozone without its own consent and the "Ever closer union" concession was utterly meaningless considering that EU states have to ratify the treaties.

Britain had it all and it looks like it's being thrown away,for what?-"castle in the sky"trade deals with timbuk too and other nonentity places..

Mr.Nice Guy

Hurrache wrote: »

The DUP are not in the least bit interested in those they claim to represent.
https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1090282465388908544

The sad thing is they feel they can get away with this stuff because of their core support. I listened to BBC's Talkback show yesterday where they discussed the recent nationalist conference this past weekend. I was struck by the amount of unionist callers, have to say many sounding 50 or over, who staunchly defend and believe in Brexit. One lady saying it was wrong to believe a no-deal Brexit would be a bad thing before it has happened. One fellow saying it was all the fault of May the remainer being at the helm.

The only way I can see them suffering at the ballot box in a future election is if all those who don't vote because they're apathetic towards NI politics, especially young voters, dramatically change their stance and mobilise to get them out. Might the DUP's anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, and now anti-soft border stance be enough to do this? I'm sceptical but can only hope so. I think the change is coming inevitably sooner or later.

Hermy

J Mysterio wrote: »

I dont think the EU can or should reopen negotiations.

On that, has there been any comment from Brussels re May's intention to go back and renegotiate?

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

Britain had it all and it looks like it's being thrown away,for what?-"castle in the sky"trade deals with timbuk too and other nonentity places..

Nobody voted Leave for trade deals. In my experience, the guff about trade is a red herring because nobody wants to say immigration because they can't concoct a logical argument against it or sovereignty because they can't name any EU laws they want to be rid of. It was also a helpful way to counter people who were worried about their incomes.

Britain had it all but it's being thrown away for a needle and thread to knit an increasingly fractious Tory party back together. And we won't even get that.

Water John

The response has already been leaked, 2 sources one being Bloomberg, variation of, forget it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/29/eu-rule-out-brexit-renegotiation-brady-amendment-pass

ancapailldorcha

Water John wrote: »

The response has already been leaked, 2 sources one being Bloomberg, variation of, forget it.

So we have yet another case of the EU doing what it said it would do while the clock continues to tick. Excellent.

Professor Moriarty

Hermy wrote: »

On that, has there been any comment from Brussels re May's intention to go back and renegotiate?

Apparently Juncker emphatically ruled out renegotiation in a phone call with May this afternoon before she spoke in the HoC. All about party unity.

J Mysterio

Hermy wrote: »

On that, has there been any comment from Brussels re May's intention to go back and renegotiate?

In the last number of days, Michel Barnier, Sabine Weyand, Guy Verhofstadt, Claude Juncker, i think Selmayr and numerous other officials and PM's from within Europe have all said the Withdrawal Agreement is as negotiated and won't be reopened.

The olive branch is a whisper that renegotiation could only be achieved through the removal of a TM red line e.g. Customs Union as it is the UK red lines which formed the bastard WA.

If May literally goes back to the EU, I expect it to be very embarassing for her, the UK and parliament. It's time to wake up, 59 days to go.

prawnsambo

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

From my reading of the subject, he didn't seek all that much. Passports weren't even mentioned and the emergency brake thing was there already. The UK was never going to enter the Eurozone without its own consent and the "Ever closer union" concession was utterly meaningless considering that EU states have to ratify the treaties.

I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that he wanted a derogation from the tax directive. Or at least a further delay to its implementation.

ilovesmybrick

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So we have yet another case of the EU doing what it said it would do while the clock continues to tick. Excellent.

There are patently a number of individuals in Westminster that are playing for time so that the UK drops out by default on a hard Brexit, but I think there are far more that are waiting for the EU to blink, as is the case in parliamentary politics the world over.

I'm wondering, are they playing British (and Irish) parliamentary politics at an EU level? Honestly at this stage the only rationale I can come up with is that they don't just misunderstand how the EU works and operates, but also that EU politics is the same as on a national level, only bigger. As a country with really no history of coalition governance and essentially a two party system you could see how such a fundamental misreading would lead to where they now find themselves.

Water John

May is in effect misleading Parliament as she has been distinctly told, no reopening the WA. She should update HOC on this phone call before the votes this evening.

Hurrache

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Apparently Juncker emphatically ruled out renegotiation in a phone call with May this afternoon before she spoke in the HoC. All about party unity.

Apparently she spoke with Varadkar too giving him the gist of what her plan was.

ancapailldorcha

prawnsambo wrote: »

I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that he wanted a derogation from the tax directive. Or at least a further delay to its implementation.

I don't pretend to be an expert in this matter. I can't say no but I think maintaining Tory unity was the primary driver for his holding of the referendum.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

There are patently a number of individuals in Westminster that are playing for time so that the UK drops out by default on a hard Brexit, but I think there are far more that are waiting for the EU to blink, as is the case in parliamentary politics the world over.

I'm wondering, are they playing British (and Irish) parliamentary politics at an EU level? Honestly at this stage the only rationale I can come up with is that they don't just misunderstand how the EU works and operates, but also that EU politics is the same as on a national level, only bigger. As a country with really no history of coalition governance and essentially a two party system you could see how such a fundamental misreading would lead to where they now find themselves.

I think they're playing disaster capitalism to be honest, the book on which was written by one William Rees-Mogg, father of Jacob.

There are different Brexit factions. Some simply hate the EU, some hate the ECJ, some want to create a low tax Singapore-on-Thames and some are simply Xenophobic. If a hard Brexit occurs, May will be forced to resign. Her successor will have carte blanche to adopt radical measures as is the modus operandi of the disaster capitalist. I can't imagine the NHS surviving given how badly US healthcare firms want to carve it up. Remember we're meant to be getting a great deal from Donald Trump by the way. Workers' rights will be a thing of the past while the former possessors of said rights will be discarded in the path to the new libertarian utopia. Even if the next PM isn't Rees-Mogg, devastating cuts will be needed to compensate for the flight of capital, money and skilled labour.

Nody

Hurrache wrote: »

Apparently she spoke with Varadkar too giving him the gist of what her plan was.

That should take all of 10s; May "So I'll promise them what ever they want for me to remain in power and come back to you, ok? Cheers, love, tata".

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1090302993801588737

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1090302995143770114

Dead in the water so.

sink

Theresa May could take lessons from Sabine Weyand on what being 'clear' actually sounds like. She logically dismantles the 'alternative to the backstop'. Suffice to say, there is absolutely no possibility of the Brady amendment being accepted by the EU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNe8qK_-wUI

Water John

So she spoke with Juncker BEFORE she gave the debate opening speech to Parliament. Grossly misleading.

Tell me how

sink wrote: »

Theresa May could take lessons from Sabine Weyand on what being 'clear' actually sounds like. She logically dismantles the 'alternative to the backstop'. Suffice to say, there is absolutely no possibility of the Brady amendment being accepted by the EU

Impressive communicator in what is her second language.

At 7.43 she is commenting on what is going on in London in relation to the Withdrawal Agreement and says that "A lot of the discussion is uninhibited by any knowledge of what is in the Withdrawal Agreement". Ouch.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1090290876448997377

Sweet Jesus, I had heard about this earlier but thought it was a misquote or joke. But no...

downcow

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

lawred2

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1090290876448997377

Sweet Jesus, I had heard about this earlier but thought it was a misquote or joke. But no...

Just an idiot seeking a cheap laugh.. safe in the knowledge that no matter what it won't backfire on him because of the rabid partisan nature of his consituent voters

Could you imagine some lad in the Dail trying that?

Front page of every paper tomorrow.

Tell me how

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

No one here is taking any pleasure in watching what is happening in the UK. We are bemused and shocked and surprised and disappointed and so on.

There are some individuals who it would be nice to see get some comeuppance but as a nation I am saddened to see this whole thing happening.

ilovesmybrick

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

Honestly, what negotiating strength? The negotiations were concluded last year. The negotiations are now in Westminster. The next negotiations the UK have with the EU are to do with the trading arrangement, and good luck with those!

And I don't believe anyone in this forum wanted this situation. This is not ideal from an Irish or a European perspective, but as Westminster cannot get it's house in order this is what we're left with.

Shelga

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1090290876448997377

Sweet Jesus, I had heard about this earlier but thought it was a misquote or joke. But no...

Sammy Wilson is truly repulsive, as well as thick. With every moronic utterance of his, a united Ireland gets closer.

First Up

downcow wrote:

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength. Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

Maybe when it sinks in that the UK has no negotiating strength, you will take a different view.

GSRNBP

Shelga wrote: »

Sammy Wilson is truly repulsive, as well as thick. With every moronic utterance of his, a united Ireland gets closer.

I think I saw him on BBC News earlier claiming that the Irish Government almost collapsed last week when the EU said there would have to be a hard border in the event of no-deal Brexit. I've been following the news and that was the first I'd heard about that!

ARNOLD J RIMMER

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

It’s music to the ears of the majority of the UK population as they voted in the MPs. It only weaken the strength of the No Deal Brexiteers.

MrMusician18

lawred2 wrote: »

Just an idiot seeking a cheap laugh.. safe in the knowledge that no matter what it won't backfire on him because of the rabid partisan nature of his consituent voters

Could you imagine some lad in the Dail trying that?

Front page of every paper tomorrow.

Eh yeah, Conor kebabs Lenihan.

Our representatives aren't any better.