Brexit Discussion Thread VI

Hurrache

Watching Prime Time I only now realise the Malthouse Compromise is named after an MP and not a restaurant or pub it was devised in.

Imreoir2

This kind of shyte is why we need a backstop.

FrancieBrady

Verhofstadt having none of it either
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1090364759982198789

Paranoid Bob

Enzokk wrote: »

The EU has rejected May asking for new negotiations and we have as well it seems.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1090355988153155584

According to Laura Kuenssberg, "Irish govt reaction - 'The Withdrawal Agreement is not open for re-negotiation'"

So May will go back to Brussels to get nothing next week. In the mean time we are then one week closer to Brexit day and even if she gets to somehow get her deal passed with some magic dust, how will they have enough time to get it passed through parliament to make it law in the UK? They will need to ask for an extension of article 50 and I suppose the EU will grant it to them to get it passed.

I think that is very disappointing and there is a much better response to the Brady amendment.


The Irish government and EU should welcome the passing of that amendment with enthusiasm, and absolutely guarantee that once alternative arrangements to prevent a hard border are agreed then the backstop will not apply.


That was always the plan anyway ...

boggerman1

Angry brexiteer on lbc just now."ye can have your £39bn but you'll never take our freedom".jesus wept

tuxy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who gives a crap what they call themselves. Sir, Lord, Dame, Honorable, whatever. They're just human beings. No better or worse than anyone else. A load of manure that only works if you buy into their rubbish.

I saw just replying to a post that said these old terms were necessary and I was unsure why.

maynooth_rules

The only renegotation that the EU should offer the UK is that it returns to a Northern Ireland only backstop, i.e. what she originally agreed to. Then let her grow a pair and throw the DUP under the bus. It will come down to what is more important, peace and an open border in ireland, or a relationship with the dinosaurs in the DUP whom she wouldnt think twice of throwing under the bus were there no balance of power

hotmail.com

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Hurrache

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

She was absolutely fine.

hotmail.com

More money will now be spent on a no deal outcome.

For Forks Sake

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

A politician briefed on their remit? It's a look a lot of MPs at Westminster could do with following tbh

hotmail.com

Hurrache wrote:

She was absolutely fine.

That's the problem.

BonnieSituation

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Where was she?

lawred2

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

She was perfectly fine

What are you specifically refer to?

blanch152

Surely, alternative arrangements to the backstop include staying in the Customs Unions and Single Market.

The EU could offer to reopen negotiations on that basis.

nc6000

BonnieSituation wrote:

Where was she?

Just been on Prime Time discussing the Brexit events from today.

blanch152

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Which British MP would you take instead of her?

blackcard

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

hotmail.com

lawred2 wrote:

What are you specifically refer to?

It's just my observation. I respect that you disagree.

awec

blanch152 wrote: »

Surely, alternative arrangements to the backstop include staying in the Customs Unions and Single Market.

The EU could offer to reopen negotiations on that basis.

Brexiteers would never accept it.

The whole reason we have the backstop is they don't wan the customs union or the single market.

Imreoir2

Sam Russell wrote: »

Have you seen the Swiss guards at the Vatican? That is real medieval.

Renaissance actually.

View

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This kind of shyte is why we need a backstop.

Nope, this kind of shyte is why we need to clearly state we will roll out the barbed wire after Brexit day, join Schengen and start making legal provisions for doing this.

It is precisely because we have given the impression that a hard border is completely unthinkable to us that Brexiters believe they can get away with this shyte. So long as they think we will do anything to avoid a hard border, they believe that we will eventually capitulate if they just prove awkward enough. To their mind, they don’t need to compromise if we are going to cave sooner or later to avoid a hard border.

maynooth_rules

blackcard wrote: »

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

I found that so laughable. I dont think the British even realise how much of a laughing stock they have become, and how as a country, their respectability is on the floor

J Mysterio

Ian Dunt is getting pretty blunt https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090365295150141442

I think we need the light relief though.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090366183499579393

Cover of the Metro: "Over to EU".
The EU won't take this on though. The WA is ready to go and wont be reopened. The UK need to own their horrible mess.

Hurrache

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I found that so laughable. I dont think the British even realise how much of a laughing stock they have become, and how as a country, their respectability is on the floor

I suspect they mean control over her government and parliament? They've been pretty decent all evening as to the realities of the situation, I don't believe they think for a moment she's in control of negotiations.

View

blackcard wrote: »

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

The whole was nicely summarised by one commentator as the Conservatives had finally united behind a common position - just one that had no relation to reality. :-)

Bit cynical

View wrote: »

Nope, this kind of shyte is why we need to clearly state we will roll out the barbed wire after Brexit day, join Schengen and start making legal provisions for doing this.

It is precisely because we have given the impression that a hard border is completely unthinkable to us that Brexiters believe they can get away with this shyte. So long as they think we will do anything to avoid a hard border, they believe that we will eventually capitulate if they just prove awkward enough. To their mind, they don’t need to compromise if we are going to cave sooner or later to avoid a hard border.

But (seeming to) rule out a hard border even in the event of a no deal brexit is Ireland's way of putting a bit of pressure on the EU to be flexible. It is a way of weakening the EU's position in Ireland's favour whilst maintaining the appearance of being tough on the border at home.

briany

So, to sum up - Parliament can find a majority on a condition that's already been rejected by the EU. What alternative arrangements regarding the border can May propose, with two months to go to get them ready, that the EU would agree to? Are there any? There can't be. The UK would have proposed them by now as the backstop wasn't even something they wanted in the first place (or at least not since the 2017 GE).

The delicious kicker is that the other passing amendment - that the UK must not leave without a deal - is only advisory. And when the UKgovernment reminds us of this on no-deal Brexit day, everyone would do well to remind them it was an advisory referendum that started this whole mess.

Imreoir2

Bit cynical wrote: »

But (seeming to) rule out a hard border even in the event of a no deal brexit is Ireland's way of putting a bit of pressure on the EU to be flexible. It is a way of weakening the EU's position in Ireland's favour whilst maintaining the appearance of being tough on the border at home.

The Irish government has started to pivot to arguing that the GFA means that in a no-deal situation the UK government will still have to maintain customs and regulatory alignment with the EU in NI. That is the basis of statements claiming that even in a no-deal scenario a hard border will not be erected.

The government will want the EU to show flexibility during the period of chaos when these arangements, should the UK abide by its obligations under the GFA, are not underpined in law by any trade agreement with the EU.

Water John

Sky News getting it right in saying both sides pulled back.
The next round will be the 14th Feb. That could be a St Valentine Day massacre.
The Spellman Dromey Motion getting approved shows everybody incl the ERG that when push comes to shove No Deal will not get the HOC support.
TM knows full well thatthe EU will give her nothing, but she'll take the humiliation again.
They'll end up voting for TM's Deal as it now stands.