Brexit Discussion Thread VI

prawnsambo

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the UK. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

Most of the abuse he got on that thread is from his own countrymen. Not sure you have a point here, Mogg is telling porkies in public again and getting called on it. Robustly. And there are a few on there telling similar lies about the border, so it's not as though it's not catching. Femi posted a very good response though. You should read it.

Harika

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the EU. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

Jrm brings his own ducks in a row. He was pushing for a no deal Brexit himself and as this will cause havoc to the UK he is now on record to have been against that. And it is the fault of the Irish ofc not himself and his crew.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the EU. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

I wonder why he is getting abuse for pretending there is no problem with the NI border, and pretending that the disastrous performance of the UK gov in the Brexit negotiations is due to bullying by Ireland.

This is the UK that wants to thrash out great advantageous trade deals with real giants like China, India and the USA. And they can't even get a deal with Ireland next door.

cryptocurrency

prawnsambo wrote: »

Most of the abuse he got on that thread is from his own countrymen. Not sure you have a point here, Mogg is telling porkies in public again and getting called on it. Robustly. And there are a few on there telling similar lies about the border, so it's not as though it's not catching. Femi posted a very good response though. You should read it.

Femi, oh please.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/03/police-reinforcements-for-northern-ireland-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit-1000-officers-training-trouble-hard-border

This looks like it is getting serious with a 1000 new police trained for NI unrest if required.

josip

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

According to the German association of the automotive industry, in 2017 the country exported 769,000 cars to the UK, its single largest export market. The US came second with 494,000 cars. German carmakers also export 258,000 German-made vehicles to China. So for German made cars the UK buys more cars in a year than the second and third largest market combined.

But I accept your superior knowledge, the German motor industry will not be concerned by that at all.

Anytime I've been over, I've been struck by the amount of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes on British roads.
I haven't noticed the same with VWs/Opels.
In Germany the percentage of VWs/Opels are much higher.
So, rightly or wrongly, I've formed the opinion that the British motorists are very badge conscious.
I think that in the event of a hard Brexit, even if the price is much higher, they will continue to buy premium German cars in large numbers because they can't get the same badge effect from US/Asian manufacturers.

Hurrache

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Femi, oh please.
.

There's a reply the type everyone was expecting. And unsurprisingly devoid of facts, again.

cryptocurrency

josip wrote: »

Anytime I've been over, I've been struck by the amount of BMWs, Audis, Mercedes on British roads.
I haven't noticed the same with VWs/Opels.
In Germany the percentage of VWs/Opels are much higher.
So, rightly or wrongly, I've formed the opinion that the British motorists are very badge conscious.
I think that in the event of a hard Brexit, even if the price is much higher, they will continue to buy premium German cars in large numbers because they can't get the same badge effect from US/Asian manufacturers.

They are also ones who can turn on a sixpence. Germany/EU start their funny buggers then I can see it changing very fast.

fly_agaric

cryptocurrency wrote: »

So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

It is a pity, but actions of the UK towards Ireland (2016 democratic vote itself, and then actions of Conservative govt. to pursue as "hard" a Brexit as possible) have not exactly being those of a friend.

Capt'n Midnight

First Up wrote: »

If the UK car industry can't rely on the supply of components it depends on from suppliers across the EU, tariffs on finished cars won't be a problem because there won't be any finished cars to export.

Even if the UK can get the parts then under the rules of origin the finished cars may not even qualify as "UK" and so be subject to full tariffs regardless.

This is the reason why the UK parts industry is so important. And some of those companies are moving back to the EU.



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Seriously , if cars need too many imported parts then they lose the Made in UK status and good look with the trade deals.

ThePanjandrum

blanch152 wrote: »

As I understand it, under WTO rules, the UK would have to operate the same tariffs for all countries, so the EU would not be under any disadvantage.

You only have to apply the same tariffs if there is no other agreement. If there is an agreement then the tariffs can be altered or removed.

igCorcaigh

John Burton losing the rag here with Graham Gudgin at 52:30

https://youtu.be/3MMTYyqnDTI

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Femi, oh please.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/03/police-reinforcements-for-northern-ireland-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit-1000-officers-training-trouble-hard-border

This looks like it is getting serious with a 1000 new police trained for NI unrest if required.

Yeah, that will totally cover it. 40,000 troops are clearly less effective.

A Dub in Glasgo

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the EU. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

The majority of people in the UK are no friends of the likes of JRM and are telling him so

cryptocurrency

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The majority of people in the UK are no friends of the likes of JRM and are telling him so

Don't confuse the large social media presence of die-hard remainers and Corbyn fans and the reality on the ground.

Mogg is extremely popular.

Midlife

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Don't confuse the large social media presence of die-hard remainers and Corbyn fans and the reality on the ground.

Mogg is extremely popular.

Not taking the piss but can I ask what you're basing this on given you seem to live in Ireland.

A Dub in Glasgo

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Don't confuse the large social media presence of die-hard remainers and Corbyn fans and the reality on the ground.

Mogg is extremely popular.

Really popular with his own type - the majority of people in the UK have no truck with him as they recognise a self serving coward when they see one

Infini

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the EU. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

I'd be honest considering the ways he's acted and the damage him and his cohorts risk causing I wouldn't be suprised if he ends up with a permenant police escort or forced to live under armed guard for the rest of his days. There's being an idiot and then theres been a incompetent fool and theres plenty of suspicions hes got financial motivations to cause a car crash Brexit.

Honestly trying to blame Ireland for his governments failures isn't gonna fly with anyone except the willfully ignorant who refuse to accept the factual truth before them.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Don't confuse the large social media presence of die-hard remainers and Corbyn fans and the reality on the ground.

Mogg is extremely popular.

The likes of Mogg being 'extremely popular' is very much not to the UK's credit. It rather confirms a lot of stereotypes.

An Claidheamh

Midlife wrote: »

Not taking the piss but can I ask what you're basing this on given you seem to live in Ireland.

Or he's a Brit, with a chip on his shoulder.

Something I've noticed in this whole Brexit process, is that the only way the British can try to persuade people of Brexit ... is to pretend they're Irish.

Rather a hilarious end to Britain as a medium sized power/influencer.

Anthracite

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Or he's a Brit, with a chip on his shoulder.

The really weird thing is that he appears to have been a student in IT Tallaght. I wonder was that important in forming his British identity?

What say you, Cryptocurrency? When did you find you had these right wing British opinions, did they form before or after your stint in ITT? Very interested to hear about how you formed these views.

FrancieBrady

Mogg is useful to the Brexit crowd. But he has smelt the future, the mob turning n him (and they will) and is desperately trying to deflect. Much like Arlene does up north.

cryptocurrency

Anthracite wrote: »

The really weird thing is that he appears to have been a student in IT Tallaght. I wonder was that important in forming his British identity?

What say you, Cryptocurrency? When did you find you had these right wing British opinions, did they form before or after your stint in ITT? Very interested to hear about how you formed these views.

short course, pharma based.

I am not so much pro-British as I am anti-EU and see the moves we have made against them and their democratic vote as nuts.

10000maniacs

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

No, the component industry is not based completely on EU membership, components come from all around the world including China, Japan. India and the USA to give examples.

One of the likely effects of Brexit is that more component production will move to Britain for better provision of vehicle parts. The UK motor industry might well grow - despite what the British government gets businesses to say in an attempt to remain in some kind of Customs Union.

Not very likely. Unless discoveries of bauxite, chromite, copper, anglesite, cerussite, magnetite and hematite are found under the UK in the next three months, I see your plan floundering.
The EU will still have 3rd country deals with the countries that mine these raw materials so it would be a lot cheaper to import these raw materials and produce these car parts in say Poland than the UK if there is a no deal Brexit.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

short course, pharma based.

I am not so much pro-British as I am anti-EU and see the moves we have made against them and their democratic vote as nuts.

Thanks for the information. It's very evident that you are fairly rabidly anti-EU, but in a manner that you can't quite seem to express in actual arguments that can actually be rebutted.

cryptocurrency

Anthracite wrote: »

Thanks for the information. It's very evident that you are fairly rabidly anti-EU, but in a manner that you can't quite seem to express in actual arguments that can actually be rebutted.

I am a libertarian and love freedom. It is what pulled me into the Crypto in 2012 as most libertarians were looking for money that could not be debased by the state.
My love of freedom means the vote in my eyes must be respected and should also explain why I don't like the EU. Libertarians all hate the EU, it's against everything they hold dear.

The EU is doomed to fail and is holding back many nations. The real future is the developing world and Ireland should join the UK in taking it to them.

I understand it would not be wise for Ireland to leave the EU right now but its collapse would mean we can remain friends with our neighbours and say at least we tried and hung in there with them...but now we need to head off and make some real cash.

Enzokk

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

According to the German association of the automotive industry, in 2017 the country exported 769,000 cars to the UK, its single largest export market. The US came second with 494,000 cars. German carmakers also export 258,000 German-made vehicles to China. So for German made cars the UK buys more cars in a year than the second and third largest market combined.

But I accept your superior knowledge, the German motor industry will not be concerned by that at all.

Ah, statistics. Yes the UK is the biggest market for Germany when you look at the EU and other countries. They exported as you said 769,000 cars to the UK but that is from a total of 4.3m and from a total of 2.4m to the EU. So the UK market is significant to Germany, but last time I checked 1/3 is less than 2/3 so as others have pointed out the statement that the single market is more important to German auto makers is backed up by the numbers.

Also, if you take into account their domestic production as well, which is also in the EU, then the numbers look even worse for the assertion that many politicians have made that the German car makers will force a deal.

Enzokk

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I am a libertarian and love freedom. It is what pulled me into the Crypto in 2012 as most libertarians were looking for money that could not be debased by the state.
My love of freedom means the vote in my eyes must be respected and should also explain why I don't like the EU. Libertarians all hate the EU, it's against everything they hold dear.

The EU is doomed to fail and is holding back many nations. The real future is the developing world and Ireland should join the UK in taking it to them.

I understand it would not be wise for Ireland to leave the EU right now but its collapse would mean we can remain friends with our neighbours and say at least we tried and hung in there with them...but now we need to head off and make some real cash.

That is interesting. Would you say the EU has held back Ireland? What do you make of the market that countries in the EU has to sell its goods to? Should that be ignored and should we be looking at countries like South Africa, Lesotho, Philippines and Vietnam to buy our goods instead of France, Spain, Italy and Germany?

What exposure does those developing nations have to Irish products that will make trade better for exporters here than the EU?

Finally, Europe is experiencing the longest period of peace since WW2, is this just an co-incidence and has nothing to do with the establishment of the EU and we should try and test that theory?

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The EU is doomed to fail and is holding back many nations. The real future is the developing world and Ireland should join the UK in taking it to them.

Did you know that Germany is per capita the world's greatest exporter? How is the UK being held back while Germany isn't? Especially considering that Germany is even more enmeshed in the evil EU than the UK is?

lawred2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

JRM has caused quite a stir with his latest tweet. https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1080837722208636929

I have been quite shocked at how much abuse the man has got for that tweet and the strong opinions that the UK can't survive or won't survive without being in bed with the EU. So many people are showing serious dislike towards the UK that its a little disturbing. Who needs friends hey.

Sure when all else fails, nothing like resorting to stirring up a bit of anti Irish sentiments.

Blame the Irish government for a problem entirely of the makings of a cabal of disaster capitalists, charlatans, elitists, racists and snake oil salesmen ably abetted by millions of useful fools.

Imagine him being your representative and having voted for him.

Midlife

cryptocurrency wrote: »

My love of freedom means the vote in my eyes must be respected and should also explain why I don't like the EU. Libertarians all hate the EU, it's against everything they hold dear.

I don't think this is very thought through.

The UK are free to leave Europe so your love of freedom is intact.

So what's the problem? Lack of individual decision making and basic liberty?

But then how is a United Kingdom any more Libertarian than a United Europe?