Brexit Discussion Thread VI

Lemming

bilston wrote: »

No, the BBC do this on lots of their online content. I think it's so you can watch the content without turning the volume up, so for example you're on a train or bus and you haven't any headphones, but you want to watch a news report then hey presto, you can and not annoy anyone else at the same time.

It's also down to accessibility guidelines issued for UK government/public services digital content, whether it be the DVLA website, BBC, NHS, etc. Used to work on the NHS website a few years back and there was always accessibility requirements attached for any work wanting done. Provision for subtitles for the hard-of-hearing would fall under such requirements; that it means you can watch a video with no sound on is a benign knock-on effect for everyone else. So I really wouldn't be reading too much into the matter.

FrancieBrady

PeadarCo wrote: »

That wouldn't surprise me if their was a referendum. However what do the DUP have to lose with their stance? They can come out with whatever statements they want but will they be punished by voter's? If the north's voting patterns remain similar to a tribal headcount why would they change their policy. Business bodies can say whatever they want but politicians won't change unless they feel they will be voted out. In the Brexit situation it's especially true as alot of leavers don't care and or believe the warnings from a whole range of experts in different fields.

I genuinely think the UUP would make big gains if it ever came to a head count. The predominance of the DUP is only a fairly recent thing.
Of course that would require a leader emerging in the UUP that can lead on the Remain issue.
With business and farming interests literally crapping themselves about the ****storm ahead it isn't hard to see tbh.

amacca

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I genuinely think the UUP would make big gains if it ever came to a head count. The predominance of the DUP is only a fairly recent thing.
Of course that would require a leader emerging in the UUP that can lead on the Remain issue.
With business and farming interests literally crapping themselves about the ****storm ahead it isn't hard to see tbh.

do elected representatives represent their electorate........ironic that brexit was touted as being a solution to a similar (perhaps largely imagined) problem.

road_high

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sky reporting the following from a poll of 'grassroots Tories':

57% No Deal 23 % May Deal 15% Remain 5% No Preference

Idiot Andrew Bridgen going on about Project Fear still. Bottomly supporting May Deal.

Sure if they want “No deal” let them at it. A sizeable majority want just that, very little us looking in can do to change that. They’re so rabid in their hatred of Europe and the EU they’ll cut off economic limbs just for the sake of it at this stage.
Course the %s amongst all other parties are likely very different but they’re not the ones in power over there

prawnsambo

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sky reporting the following from a poll of 'grassroots Tories':

• 57% No Deal
  23 % May Deal
  15% Remain
  5% No Preference

Idiot Andrew Bridgen going on about Project Fear still. Bottomly supporting May Deal.

Just for clarity, it was a poll of Tory party members and there are only 125k of them anyway. A subset of a subset of a subset of a subset of voters. And a very particular subset at that.

Charles Babbage

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I genuinely think the UUP would make big gains if it ever came to a head count. The predominance of the DUP is only a fairly recent thing.
Of course that would require a leader emerging in the UUP that can lead on the Remain issue.
With business and farming interests literally crapping themselves about the ****storm ahead it isn't hard to see tbh.

They should bring back Nesbitt, who accurately forecast the present direction of things.

If the UU does not get a distinct take on Brexit then a lot of their more realistic voters will drift off to Alliance, who have been clearly pro EU all along. There is a bloc of people represented by Sylvia Hermon who don't have a good outlet in other constituencies.

10000maniacs

bilston wrote: »

No, the BBC do this on lots of their online content. I think it's so you can watch the content without turning the volume up, so for example you're on a train or bus and you haven't any headphones, but you want to watch a news report then hey presto, you can and not annoy anyone else at the same time.

If that's the case, why didn't they have subtitles for Nancy Pelosi today.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46754048

Enzokk

prawnsambo wrote: »

Just for clarity, it was a poll of Tory party members and there are only 125k of them anyway. A subset of a subset of a subset of a subset of voters. And a very particular subset at that.

The absolute crazy thing is this subset of a subset will choose the next leader for the country if Theresa May resigns.

Strazdas

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sky reporting the following from a poll of 'grassroots Tories':

57% No Deal 23 % May Deal 15% Remain 5% No Preference

Idiot Andrew Bridgen going on about Project Fear still. Bottomly supporting May Deal.

There was a guy from The Times on Newstalk this evening and he says the No Deal fans simply don't believe any of the warnings about it. They prefer to believe what Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg are telling them.

josip

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but from this article it would seem that Ryanair is in a better position, apart from its British operations, regarding Brexit than Aer Lingus.



https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brussels-cuts-iberia-and-aer-linguss-wings-to-fly-in-eu-after-brexit/

listermint

road_high wrote: »

Sure if they want “No deal” let them at it. A sizeable majority want just that, very little us looking in can do to change that. They’re so rabid in their hatred of Europe and the EU they’ll cut off economic limbs just for the sake of it at this stage.
Course the %s amongst all other parties are likely very different but they’re not the ones in power over there

The Tories have a smaller membership that the SNP so 53 percent of grassroots Tories is about roughly 60 thousand people. Not alot and certainly not enough to allow them have their way.

This is a tiny section of South east England and mainly over 50 their demographic makeup of the membership is hilarious obvious.

You could actually draw it with a pencil and it would be accurate. A Tory parody if you will.

Strazdas

road_high wrote: »

Sure if they want “No deal” let them at it. A sizeable majority want just that, very little us looking in can do to change that. They’re so rabid in their hatred of Europe and the EU they’ll cut off economic limbs just for the sake of it at this stage.
Course the %s amongst all other parties are likely very different but they’re not the ones in power over there

Good article by the guy who conducted the ESRC poll :

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-poll-conservatives-theresa-may-no-deal-tories-betrayal-eu-a8711551.html

He's clearly taken aback by the findings but he warns that this could mean crazy times ahead in 2019 if such off the wall opinions are the norm.

bilston

10000maniacs wrote: »

If that's the case, why didn't they have subtitles for Nancy Pelosi today.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46754048

No idea, but believe me or don't believe me, but as someone from NI who uses the BBC website every day I can assure you this is not unusual and is not a sleight in anyway against Leo Varadkar.

bilston

Strazdas wrote: »

There was a guy from The Times on Newstalk this evening and he says the No Deal fans simply don't believe any of the warnings about it. They prefer to believe what Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg are telling them.

It's practically fanatical at this stage. The more you tell them that a No Deal will be a disaster the more they think it's great.

I had lunch with a mate yesterday who actively wants No Deal, he literally couldn't answer any of the points I threw at him, he just kept saying it would be great for the economy and that Britain would be an independent nation again. Given he is a mate I didn't push it too far as I didn't want to fall out with him, I'm actually starting to think he was trolling me. Maybe all Hard Brexiteers are trolls and don't really believe anything they say...

igCorcaigh

I'd have more respect for the hard Brexit fans if they could argue that in the long term historical perspective, it would be the right thing to do, despite the initial disastrous effects in the short to medium term.

I don't think Irish republicans in 1916 were arguing for independence in economic terms.

PeadarCo

Charles Babbage wrote:

If the UU does not get a distinct take on Brexit then a lot of their more realistic voters will drift off to Alliance, who have been clearly pro EU all along. There is a bloc of people represented by Sylvia Hermon who don't have a good outlet in other constituencies.

To be honest I am a bit surprised the UU changed tack after the vote. Now it might be a bit naive but surely their remain vote would give themselves something to set them apart from the DUP. If there isn't some change on the ground we can expect more crazy statements from the DUP over the next few months.

Fann Linn

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'd have more respect for the hard Brexit fans if they could argue that in the long term historical perspective, it would be the right thing to do, despite the initial disastrous effects in the short to medium term.

I don't think Irish republicans in 1916 were arguing for independence in economic terms.

I think James Connolly actually was.

Strazdas

bilston wrote: »

It's practically fanatical at this stage. The more you tell them that a No Deal will be a disaster the more they think it's great.

I had lunch with a mate yesterday who actively wants No Deal, he literally couldn't answer any of the points I threw at him, he just kept saying it would be great for the economy and that Britain would be an independent nation again. Given he is a mate I didn't push it too far as I didn't want to fall out with him, I'm actually starting to think he was trolling me. Maybe all Hard Brexiteers are trolls and don't really believe anything they say...

Yes, it's like a religion or an ideology for them. Goodness knows how they came to believe in it so passionately but believe in it they do.

First Up

igCorcaigh wrote:

I don't think Irish republicans in 1916 were arguing for independence in economic terms.

No, but it was a very different world - a time of political and economic nationalism.

igCorcaigh

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think James Connolly actually was.

Well yes, but it was a historical perspective on class relations; I don't think he was on about GDP.

igCorcaigh

First Up wrote: »

No, but it was a very different world - a time of political and economic nationalism.

I think some of the Brexit argument is in those terms.

First Up

igCorcaigh wrote:

I think some of the Brexit argument is in those terms.

Entirely on those terms.

demfad

Strazdas wrote: »

There was a guy from The Times on Newstalk this evening and he says the No Deal fans simply don't believe any of the warnings about it. They prefer to believe what Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg are telling them.

This is key. The goal of Information warfare is to stop people believing sources of information and journalism. People start believing authority figures and their messages are hyped and propagandized by those behind the war.

Remember Bannon meeting Johnson and Mogg?

For Bannon read: Aaron Banks, Farage, LeaveEU, Breitbart, whatever Cambridge Analytica is calling itself now etc. etc.

Capt'n Midnight

mrbrianj wrote: »

a simplified example is their car industry, the 10% tariffs for future exports to the EU will be more than covered out by reduction in the pound and labour costs, whilst they may also get a sales bounce from how european made cars are now going to be more expensive to the UK market. Great news if you own the company and whip profits out of the UK.

Not so cool if you work on the factory floor and you are now eating chlorinated chicken or hormone beef for lunch and can no longer afford your 2 weeks in Benidorm as the euro is too expensive. Not cool at all if you work in one of the other industries or services that wont survive Brexit.

When you hear mention of taking back control, you have to think taking back control of who?

Didn't the Belgian PM point this out, and isn't this why any EU agreement means the UK can't have full market access if they try to undercut EU costs by cutting standards ?

Meanwhile, the reality of the situation is that Sterling has already devalued and there hasn't been any corresponding growth in exports. Even amongst Commonwealth countries. Not cool at all.

Capt'n Midnight

Strazdas wrote: »

It has long being suggested that the main reason they can't stand the EU is because they see it as a "foreign" organisation with its HQ in a foreign country. If the EU was based in London, it would be the best thing ever.

Don't kid yourself. Look at the contempt the US and Trump in particular holds for the UN which is based in New York.

Even if the UK was in the driving seat and being paid for the privilege lots of little englanders would still be upset that they were "over here".

Capt'n Midnight

JRM is still making noises about six seconds to clear customs. (provided you apply 2 days in advance and remember the six seconds only applies to the declaration not the actual clearing.- ie. complete BS to think six seconds refers to any physical process )


Right now a truck from Switzerland can take hours to get through UK customs.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46739895

But any lorries arriving from a non-EU country, such as Switzerland, are subject to longer delays.

"If customs don't want to check anything, that would [still] delay the vehicle by about an hour or an hour and a half [while the driver waits for a decision]," Andrew Baxter, the managing director of the freight logistics company Europa Worldwide, told a House of Commons Committee last year.

"If customs wanted to do a documentary check, that could delay it by up to three hours, and if there was an inspection of the goods, that could delay it by up to five hours," he added.

Portsmouth will also be used to take pressure off Dover - my highlighting

"The distance between the freight check-in desk at Portsmouth International Port and the beginning of the motorway is just 13 lorry lengths," said a statement issued on Thursday by council leaders in Hampshire, "so a queue of 14 lorries or more would mean queuing traffic on the motorway."

bob mcbob

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I am a libertarian and love freedom. It is what pulled me into the Crypto in 2012 as most libertarians were looking for money that could not be debased by the state.
My love of freedom means the vote in my eyes must be respected and should also explain why I don't like the EU. Libertarians all hate the EU, it's against everything they hold dear.

The EU is doomed to fail and is holding back many nations. The real future is the developing world and Ireland should join the UK in taking it to them.

I understand it would not be wise for Ireland to leave the EU right now but its collapse would mean we can remain friends with our neighbours and say at least we tried and hung in there with them...but now we need to head off and make some real cash.

Ok so libertarians are either left wing (anarchists) or right wing (minarchists). I am assuming from your posting that you are the right wing variety.

You talk that you hate the EU (understandable for a minarchist) but surely the holding the views you do, you despise Irish and British states almost as much.

Spanish Eyes

Seems to me, in my totally dilletante view in comparison to many other contributors, that the UK is just on a path and will not admit they may have issues with anything.

Where are the intelligent voices in all this. I don't seem to hear them.

But hopefully they are keeping their powder dry and will reject this ridiculous nonsense.

But then again many think it is very real and not ridiculous at all. Getting back control.

OK. Of what?

josip

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Seems to me, in my totally dilletante view in comparison to many other contributors, that the UK is just on a path and will not admit they may have issues with anything.

Where are the intelligent voices in all this. I don't seem to hear them.

But hopefully they are keeping their powder dry and will reject this ridiculous nonsense.

But then again many think it is very real and not ridiculous at all. Getting back control.

OK. Of what?

I think the Rubicon has been crossed now.
Those intelligent voices you mention have been too busy getting on with making money and left it to "the politicians to sort something out" as one of our customers said to me.

Unfortunately it's now too late "to sort anything out" and the majority of those in power, including the opposition, want to have the extreme form of Brexit anyway so there's no risk of a rebellion from within.

The 21st will confirm what's already known, that May's deal is not a runner and the clock will simply sick down to a No Deal Brexit on the 29th.
I can't think of any country that has ever so readily cut off its nose to spite its face.

ThePanjandrum

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Didn't the Belgian PM point this out, and isn't this why any EU agreement means the UK can't have full market access if they try to undercut EU costs by cutting standards ?

Meanwhile, the reality of the situation is that Sterling has already devalued and there hasn't been any corresponding growth in exports. Even amongst Commonwealth countries. Not cool at all.

Sure about that?