What kind of ftp/Watts per kg do I need to ride the junior tour/any big A3,A2 races?

RowanHarley

So I'm currently training on trainerroad but I'd like to know what power I need to have to compete in these bigger events.

dahat

Really? Same sort of stuff from last season.

RowanHarley

dahat wrote: »

Really? Same sort of stuff from last season.

Yes but last year I had no power meter. I invested in one at September and am now following structured plans, rather than just doing some KOM hunting

dahat

To be competitive in the big A3 races my guess would be easily 5-6 watts/kg.

*a guess*

Get a coach or see one as a once off consultation maybe is my best advice.

JimmiesRustled

5 sec - 19.2 w/kg
1 min - 11.7 w/kg
5 min - 6.9 w/kg
20 min - 5.3 w/kg

That's pretty typical of A4.

J Madone

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

5 sec - 19.2 w/kg
1 min - 11.7 w/kg
5 min - 6.9 w/kg
20 min - 5.3 w/kg

That's pretty typical of A4.

I doubt it

JimmiesRustled

J Madone wrote: »

I doubt it

No seriously. They won't even let you sign on to race with anything less.

dahat

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

5 sec - 19.2 w/kg
1 min - 11.7 w/kg
5 min - 6.9 w/kg
20 min - 5.3 w/kg

That's pretty typical of A4.

A4? I doubt that as well, was a decent A4 with no way near those figures.

JimmiesRustled

dahat wrote: »

A4? I doubt that as well, was a decent A4 with no way near those figures.

Thought it was pretty clear that was a piss take. The question gets asked every winter coming into the new season in one guise or another. "What ftp do I need to start racing?"
"what max power do I need to win a race?"
"What power do I need so that I'm never out of breath in a race?"

To answer OP's question ftp and w/kg are only part of the overall picture and without your race data or training data no one here can give you a hard fast answer. Sure we could come out and give a ridiculous answer like the one I gave in my first post and it'd be pretty hard to drop you in any race bar pro races.

There's so much more to it. Having your best 20 minute effort be 6w/kg is fantastic or having your 1 minute power up at 12w/kg is unreal but what's your repeatability like? Does that 12w/kg drop to 2w/kg after the first effort?

It's not as simple as have x w/kg for 1/5/20 minutes and you're grand. Commit to a programme either from a coach or whatever you're looking to use and sticky with it. You'll find out soon enough come race season if you're ready.

CramCycle

Get on the bike and race, you'll soon find out if your good enough. If your not, you will be at A4 level if you keep going. If you are, you'll soon be A3 once you learn how to race.

c.p.w.g.w

You can have amazing power numbers, but if you can't handle yourself in the group, you won't go far. The level of bike handling at A4 is scary. Only raced twice many moons ago, scared the bejaysus out of me. Lads braking for anything small thing. Dropping water bottles, taking silly lines around corners.

Would like to do a few next year to challenge myself, but I need to keep my OH from finding out about the crashes at A4 or she won't allow me ride ha ha

Lumen

Get a coach. Your club should be supporting your training at this age. If it isn't, change club.

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

Get a coach. Your club should be supporting your training at this age. If it isn't, change club.

He has got us, what does he need a coach for :cool:

Taxuser1

RowanHarley wrote: »

So I'm currently training on trainerroad but I'd like to know what power I need to have to compete in these bigger events.

Best of luck for Year ahead. When you mean compete, do you mean challenge to win or just to get around? Are you first or second year junior and did you ride 2 years under 16. How did you get on?

To answer your question frankly, power numbers will need to be really good to place or win junior races towards A2 and onto A1 level. But you also need a good brain and be exceedingly resilient, fit and strong which isn't actually just power based. The best juniors last year were regularly placing in top senior Irish classics. I'm thinking Liam Curley and Aaron Doherty in the John Beggs and the Laragh Classic. And they were far from the best in the country. The twins will and archie Ryan are awesome climbers and fit and I expect them to be the main guys next year. Both of them are already at a serious A1 level.

Keep the head down and do your training. Don't worry so much about results. You'll get better as the year goes along.

Miklos

How did you get on racing last season?

Plastik

Those bloody Ryan kids have been breaking my heart since they were about 14.

RowanHarley

Taxuser1 wrote: »

Best of luck for Year ahead. When you mean compete, do you mean challenge to win or just to get around? Are you first or second year junior and did you ride 2 years under 16. How did you get on?

To answer your question frankly, power numbers will need to be really good to place or win junior races towards A2 and onto A1 level. But you also need a good brain and be exceedingly resilient, fit and strong which isn't actually just power based. The best juniors last year were regularly placing in top senior Irish classics. I'm thinking Liam Curley and Aaron Doherty in the John Beggs and the Laragh Classic. And they were far from the best in the country. The twins will and archie Ryan are awesome climbers and fit and I expect them to be the main guys next year. Both of them are already at a serious A1 level.

Keep the head down and do your training. Don't worry so much about results. You'll get better as the year goes along.

Well first of all I'd just like to be able to stick in the group, but I would like to compete to a certain extent. I.E, get into breaks, maybe try a few sprint finishes or even try to form my own breakaway. I'm a smaller cyclist at like 5ft 5" so breakaways probably wouldnt work well for me but I'd like to give them a try anyways

RowanHarley

Miklos wrote: »

How did you get on racing last season?

Pretty average, didnt go near the sprints, just sat in the bunches, tried some stuff but the main aim was just to get used to riding in a tight packed group

Taxuser1

RowanHarley wrote: »

Well first of all I'd just like to be able to stick in the group, but I would like to compete to a certain extent. I.E, get into breaks, maybe try a few sprint finishes or even try to form my own breakaway. I'm a smaller cyclist at like 5ft 5" so breakaways probably wouldnt work well for me but I'd like to give them a try anyways

Keep at it. Get the training in then get the race legs and build on the confidence you have gained from last season. Each day you'll be a better racer and then you'll get there. Sounds like you're racing already which is great, sometimes getting off the front is hard enough. Staying there might mean following and Learing the riders in form, having patience and not burning matches easily on nonsensical efforts. Save for that one special effort and learn to be cute.

letape

Lumen wrote: »

Get a coach. Your club should be supporting your training at this age. If it isn't, change club.

Forgot the coach. New faster wheels would make all the difference.

Bambaata

5 min power, 5 min power!! If you're slight use it to your advantage and hurt on hills, bigger lads will be suffering too but worse!

I wouldn't be too concerned about FTP, learn to ride bunches (says me who can't to save his life)! As a point of how awfully I ride bunches I often average another zone higher than lads far better than me for NP and AP over races but because I can't ride bunches my peaks are when I'm getting back into position because I let myself slip too far back too easily and I end up finishing well back

TGD

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

5 sec - 19.2 w/kg
1 min - 11.7 w/kg
5 min - 6.9 w/kg
20 min - 5.3 w/kg

That's pretty typical of A4.

4 w/kg (estimated hour) and you will survive ‘easily’ and could be in the mix if you can surf a bunch

dahat

TGD wrote: »

4 w/kg (estimated hour) and you will survive ‘easily’ and could be in the mix if you can surf a bunch

3 w/kg would be fine for A4 once you have a kick at the end.

Lumen

dahat wrote: »

3 w/kg would be fine for A4 once you have a kick at the end.

Comparisons with A4 are irrelevant for juniors though.

dahat

Lumen wrote: »

Comparisons with A4 are irrelevant for juniors though.

This is true, I read that comment wrong.

Op needs to stop getting hung up on power etc and just get training & building his skillset for racing.

TGD

letape wrote: »

Forgot the coach. New faster wheels would make all the difference.

And don't forget the latex tube

DKmac

Average FTP for A3 is 308w or 4.22 w/kg.
A2 is 325w
A1 is 350w

sullzz

DKmac wrote: »

Average FTP for A3 is 308w or 4.22 w/kg.
A2 is 325w
A1 is 350w

Where did you get those figures?

dahat

DKmac wrote: »

Average FTP for A3 is 308w or 4.22 w/kg.
A2 is 325w
A1 is 350w

May as well not take out a license this year if these are correct.

Always exceptions but I know a few A2 with sub 300 ftp around 75kgs.

sullzz

I'd say this is accurate enough.

Taxuser1

DKmac wrote: »

Average FTP for A3 is 308w or 4.22 w/kg.
A2 is 325w
A1 is 350w

Looking forward to comparing this to the recent sticky bottle research trawl for dit. It might not be too far off.