This is why we can't have nice things

Lumen

Spent last weekend replacing my living room subfloor. Blowerproof paint on the masonry, windproof membrane over the joists, 200mm rockwool, smartply OSB glued and screwed, taped to the wall.

Carpet fitters come in. Now it's freezing, draughts everywhere. Why? This. They've cut the carpet all the way through the tape.

DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF?!?!?!??!

Rage.

Metric Tensor

100% not surprised!

I know from your posts here Lumen that you know what you're doing so the following does not apply to you -

But this is a good example of the issues a direct labour job faces. If there was a contractor doing the whole project he'd have to fix it at his own expense or prevent it from happening in the first place. Whereas in your case the carpet fitters are paid and gone and leave you with the bill of fixing it!

Lumen

I'm increasingly of the belief that the best system is the most idiot proof one. That tape is super fragile.

It's not a hard fix, but the annoying thing is that if I'd just lashed the skirting back, or if I'd done the work in mid summer rather than mid winter, I probably wouldn't have known how bad the leaks were.

Lumen

Just a quick update on this, for completeness.

The dude who sold me the carpets, who has been in business a long time, has a good reputation and isn't an idiot, said he'd never seen air tightness tape before in new or old houses, so he was not surprised that the carpet fitters didn't know what it was. Of course houses aren't being built with suspended floors any more, so presumably in a new build there's no tape visible when the carpet fitters come in.

He also said that carpets are usually fitted after skirting goes down, and if I'd had the skirting fitted this wouldn't have happened.

Which is interesting and somewhat reasonable, except that the tape would still have been sliced, just 18mm or so from the edge of the wall in the glued section, so it wouldn't have been quite so leaky but is hardly ideal.

Anyway, moral of the story is: assume total ignorance and explain everything.

All's well that ends well. My living room is relatively cosy now....

Luckysasha

To be honest coming from a carpet fitting background i cant see how this could have been avoiding by the fitters. It’s unusual to fit a carpet with the skirting removed because of the grippers that hold the tension on the carpet when stretched. The grippers are usually a fingers width from the skirting or in your case the wall so when you fit the skirting it will effectively be sitting on top of the grippers which isnt ideal. I have often seen skirting removed for vinyl or tiles but not carpet. Looking at your picture it seems to be a very poor quality “rubber back” carpet you have so chances are there was no grippers used and it was just glued or stapled around the edges. But certainly leaving the skirting off was the cause of this not the fitting.

Lumen

It turned out that the job was quoted without gripper or underlay, possibly because I asked for the cheapest possible carpet as it's only a temporary job until next year. So the carpet was laid with spray adhesive. Fine.

But I disagree that the cause of the cut tape is my poor preparation. The cause of the cut tape is running a knife through it.

The professional thing to do would be to say "this isn't prepared right, the tape is going to get cut, do you want us to fit it anyway and then re-tape it afterwards, or come back once you've fitted the skirting, but if we do that it's going to cost more".

From the chats I've had with construction professionals, this happens all the time, previous trades causing problems for the next guy.

But to say nothing, feck it up and leave without a word is just cowboy stuff.

Luckysasha

How do you suggest they trim the carpet to fit then if they cant run the stanley knife along the wall ?. It’s possible from your picture that they didnt know they cit through the tape as the carpet would hide the cut. Im not trying to start an argument but from the carpet fitters point of view the room was ready to be done. Did you tell them about the tape and advise them not to cut through it ? I have witnessed carpet fitters getting caught out numerous times from non communication from the home owners. Under floor heating used to be a big problem when it came out first. The homeowners forget to tell the lads there is underfloor heating and bang a nail from the grippers goes through a pipe. Particularly at doorways where the door strip (naplock) was fitted. I saw a lad one time nick a qualpex pipe with the knife that was feeding a rad again qualpex was only new and the homeowner never told the lads it was only plastic. Things like that catch you out but in fairness if you where that concerned about your tape staying in tact particularly with the skirtings off then you should have made it your business to communicate that to the fitters. Could have saved yourself a lot of hassle in the long run

BryanF

If there was no skirting the normal thing would be to lay a board to cut on, you’ve a half inch from the wall tolerance. whatever, they KNEW they were cutting something and said nothing.

Lumen

Luckysasha,

It's not an argument, it's a discussion. I'm here to learn.

So that's the thing, I thought it was obvious.

I expected that people who spend all day around floors would know what air tightness tape was for.

As far as I know it's a completely normal construction detail. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Luckysasha

BryanF wrote: »

If there was no skirting the normal thing would be to lay a board to cut on, you’ve a half inch from the wall tolerance. whatever, they KNEW they were cutting something and said nothing.

Never saw that being done. Carpet is fitted tight to the wall you would never cut it with a half inch gap to the wall. What if the homeowners fitted a thinner skirting or no skirting at all. Areyou supposed to come back and try to fit in a half inch strip all the way around

Luckysasha

Lumen wrote: »

Luckysasha,

It's not an argument, it's a discussion. I'm here to learn.

So that's the thing, I thought it was obvious.

I expected that people who spend all day around floors would know what air tightness tape was for.

As far as I know it's a completely normal construction detail. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

As i said it highly unusual to fit carpet with no skirting on. The skirting in this case would have hidden the tape and sat tight to the floor so cutting the carpet along the skirting would have had no effect on your tape

kerryjack

Intresting this who is to blame, i think its 50/50 maybe they should have know; maybe you should have skirting on.

jaykayphd

Lumen wrote: »

Spent last weekend replacing my living room subfloor. Blowerproof paint on the masonry, windproof membrane over the joists, 200mm rockwool, smartply OSB glued and screwed, taped to the wall.

Carpet fitters come in. Now it's freezing, draughts everywhere. Why? This. They've cut the carpet all the way through the tape.

DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING MYSELF?!?!?!??!

Rage.

Hi Lumen

I need to do this job to one of our rooms. Was there a reason you chose rockwool over solid PIR boards?

Thanks

Lumen

jaykayphd wrote: »

Hi Lumen

I need to do this job to one of our rooms. Was there a reason you chose rockwool over solid PIR boards?

Thanks

Upstairs I'd used acoustic rockwool and that worked really well because the joists were over 200mm deep and there were loads of pipes and wires, so I could pack the rockwool loosely around those complications.

Downstairs the joists I had were only 110mm deep (same as yours?) so I had to batten underneath them to get the 200mm I wanted, and then batten the windproofing membrane over the joists and to the side of those battens to create the void for the rockwool.

It was a PITA but I didn't know they were so shallow until I'd ripped up the floor, and at that stage I was short of time and had all the materials.

If you don't have much space under the joists then I can see why PIR is attractive, but just bear in mind that you won't easily be able to work around complications like pipes and wires, and try and avoid gaps which can invite draughts up to your warm floor above.

jaykayphd

Lumen wrote: »

Upstairs I'd used acoustic rockwool and that worked really well because the joists were over 200mm deep and there were loads of pipes and wires, so I could pack the rockwool loosely around those complications.

Downstairs the joists I had were only 110mm deep (same as yours?) so I had to batten underneath them to get the 200mm I wanted, and then batten the windproofing membrane over the joists and to the side of those battens to create the void for the rockwool.

It was a PITA but I didn't know they were so shallow until I'd ripped up the floor, and at that stage I was short of time and had all the materials.

If you don't have much space under the joists then I can see why PIR is attractive, but just bear in mind that you won't easily be able to work around complications like pipes and wires, and try and avoid gaps which can invite draughts up to your warm floor above.

Thanks Lumen for your detailed reply.

I don't know yet what depth my joists are however I think Im going to go for the PIR boards method and use expanding foam for the tricky gaps. I may also go with a membrane or some form of airtightness sheeting and tape over the PIR and joists before relaying the floorboards on top.