Just found out my 13 year old dropped a subject in school without my prior knowledge

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Would you have tried to talk your son out of changing? Would you have told the school he wasn't allowed drop TG?

Very good question here OP. What would you have done if the school had contacted you or if your son had talked to you about it? Would have listened or just told him no? My parents told me I was to pick my own subjects when I was his age as it wasn't them that would be taking the classes.

Whats the plan now OP? Are you going to make your son switch back? Have you listened to him at all regarding the switch?

The school not informing either parent, thats a different thing especially regarding the books so speak to them about their policy on this and their policy regarding separated parents. But listen to your son about why he's made the choice he has for his life.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

And the reason people post asking advice on an Internet forum from strangers is that they know their friends are more likely to say what they want to hear.

I'm sure the OP gave a balanced recount of the story to his mates so got balanced replies as a result

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Every time I hear a teenager say they want to be "a pro gamer" or "social influencer" when they "grow up", I literally die a little inside. So it really isn't a silly comparison.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Choosing to stay home from school playing Fortnight is a world away from choosing what subjects he wants to do. It's a silly comparison.

It's still hard to tell if your issue is with the school or with your son going against your advice. Just out of interest, if the school has contacted you what would you have done? Would you have tried to talk your son out of changing? Would you have told the school he wasn't allowed drop TG?

And the reason people post asking advice on an Internet forum from strangers is that they know their friends are more likely to say what they want to hear.

Ah sure while you're at it...give him your car keys? And your bank card. Let him 'learn about choices'. Do let us know how that works out for you?

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I strongly disagree with this statement. This lad will need to learn about choices, choices which could bring fortune but also consequences in life. Being able to make such choices for himself is a valuable learning experience in itself, not just for studying the subject but also how this will influence him later in life or not.

Yes a parent needs to give guidance and support to their child but they also need to support where the child's creativity or desirable path lead to as they may have other interests or see something the parent does not see for their future.

1hnr79jr65

Kylen Numerous Vandal wrote: »

Every time I hear a teenager say they want to be "a pro gamer" or "social influencer" when they "grow up", I literally die a little inside. So it really isn't a silly comparison.



Ah sure while you're at it...give him your car keys? And your bank card. Let him 'learn about choices'. Do let us know how that works out for you?

Your post is out of context with quoting a previous comment of mine, no where did I mention or advocate that lad leaving school to pursue nonsense. I represented that the young lad could choose subjects which hold an interest for his future development and needs to be supported in his educational choices, forcing certain subjects on him could be detrimental to his development.

Perhaps you should read all comments and understand the tone and perspective that is being offered by some, instead of trying to twist previous comments into suiting the agenda you are offering.

witchgirl26

OP while I do agree that 13 is quite young, at the same time if he's unhappy with a subject, is there really any point with continuing with that particular one only to drop it coming LC time? I was let pick my own subjects but with guidance from parents. My mam strongly advised me to pick science and a business subject which I did. I hated science and dropped it straight after JC but glad I did it to then.

Honestly it's hard to tell if you're more annoyed that he dropped the subject you wanted him to do or that the school didn't tell you. Or he didn't. The school never informed parents about changes of subjects when I was there - that was down to the student. They might bring the parents in for a discussion if it was closer to JC time and a swap was requested but in first year, not really.

I know a few people who swapped subjects in first year as what they thought they loved, they actually hated!

B-D-P--

Surprised he had to do this,

Usually Wood work and Tech graphics are on different times as its a boys* subject and usually clash with Home Ec or art.

They do go hand in hand, so most schools allow for them both to be studied.

* Snowflakes need not reply, thats just the way it is in schools. And of course girls can do it.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Thanks for your valuable input. :rolleyes: What do you believe is my 'agenda'? I quoted you directly, my reply is not out of context and there was no twisting of your words.

The idea that you would advocate that a 13 year is old enough to make such life altering decisions on his own, so he can "learn about choices" and/or "support the child's creativity" , is ridiculous. Your post is ill-considered.

The OP (nor I) mentioned forcing his kid to pick particular subjects. Cut out that nonsense please.

His kid needs guidance from both the school and from his parents, we agree on that much.

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Your post is out of context with quoting a previous comment of mine, no where did I mention or advocate that lad leaving school to pursue nonsense. I represented that the young lad could choose subjects which hold an interest for his future development and needs to be supported in his educational choices, forcing certain subjects on him could be detrimental to his development.

Perhaps you should read all comments and understand the tone and perspective that is being offered by some, instead of trying to twist previous comments into suiting the agenda you are offering.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Surprised he had to do this,

Usually Wood work and Tech graphics are on different times as its a boys* subject and usually clash with Home Ec or art.

They do go hand in hand, so most schools allow for them both to be studied.

* Snowflakes need not reply, thats just the way it is in schools. And of course girls can do it.

He might not want to study tech graphics at all though. Then it does become an issue if woodwork is on at a different time. It would require a bit of timetable jiggerypokery.

As for picking his subjects by himself, is it really that surprising to some? I distinctly remember telling my parents what my elective subjects were going to be, not asking them. And I was 12 at the time.

witchgirl26

Kylen Numerous Vandal wrote: »

The idea that you would advocate that a 13 year is old enough to make such life altering decisions, so he can "learn about choices" and/or "support the child's creativity" , is ludicrous. Your post is ill-considered.

Oh come on. If the child wanted to drop out of school it'd be one thing but it's switching subject. Ultimately they can be of little relevance to the career the child ends up in. I know accountants who didn't do a business subject in school or college but just did the professional ones.

Also the "life-altering" is a bit much - it's subjects for the JC. If needs be, subjects can often be picked up for LC.

I think it's worse for the child to be forced to continue a subject in which they may have absolutely no interest at all and maybe aren't good at just because it may led to a career that they may or may not even want in the future.

Kylen Numerous Vandal wrote: »

The OP did not mentioned forcing his kid to pick subjects. Cut out that nonsense please.

No he didn't but he did say that he really wanted his child to do Tech Graph but never mentioned the child's view on the subject.

seamus

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Also the "life-altering" is a bit much - it's subjects for the JC. If needs be, subjects can often be picked up for LC.

Or not, even. You could pick 8 subjects for the leaving cert and end up in a career that uses none of them.

"Future-proofing" any child through their subject choices will not work, and changing TG for woodwork is not a "life-altering" change by any stretch of the imagination. There is no career path that you will find yourself excluded from by not picking a particular subject in school.

School is annoying and boring enough without having to do subjects you hate.

Cushie Butterfield

I can understand that it’s a bit of a kick in the teeth for the OP to realise that it seems that his son feels that he can’t confide in him. It can be difficult for divorced parents in these situations.

Either parent could still be harbouring some resentment towards the other & using the offspring to get at the other. Equally, kids can play one parent against the other. So, there could be a bit of either at play here somewhere.

If only for the sake of the son’s happiness/contentment/emotional growth it’s not worth making a big deal over choosing one subject over another - especially when he did take the father’s wishes into account by choosing the subject to begin with. It wasn’t for him, he didn’t like it, it’s not a core subject, he has now chosen an alternative subject that he’s more interested in doing.

OP needs to tread very carefully & try to improve the lines of communication with his son. This can be difficult even for parents that are still together.

It should have come as no surprise that the kid wasn’t happy doing the subject. Both parents should learn a valuable lesson from this episode & do their level best to ensure that the next time their son has a problem that he feels he can approach them both without fear.

Ursus Horribilis

This is pointing to two issues that are going on here. Your relationship with your ex and your co-parenting of your son. And your relationship with your son. The decision to drop Technical Graphics isn't something that happened overnight. Did he ever say anything to you about the subject and how he was finding it? If so, did you listen? Or did he feel that all he'd get from you was "suck it up, you can be an engineer"?
As an aside, schools don't always join up the dots for you. I know a couple who let their daughter drop French in school, only to find out later that she couldn't apply for some university courses she'd otherwise gone for. That was the first they knew of this and they'd not been warned.

There's also an inherent danger in pushing your child into a career they may not be suited for. I've a cousin who "forgot" to post an important form because his parents were pushing him so much towards something they wanted but he didn't. If he was older he probably would've told them No and done his own thing. Who is it who thinks your son could be an engineer or an architect? Has he ever expressed an interest in either career and does he have an aptitude for it? It's also worth remembering that at 13, lots of kids don't have a clue what they want to do later on in life. More crucially, they don't yet know enough about themselves to make these big decisions.

As you can see here, not having Technical Graphics as a school subject didn't stop the people here on this thread. Maybe it's time to lay off the heavy stuff and listen to the lad, not lecture him.

Big Bag of Chips

Kylen Numerous Vandal wrote: »

Every time I hear a teenager say they want to be "a pro gamer" or "social influencer" when they "grow up", I literally die a little inside. So it really isn't a silly comparison.

A 13 year old choosing to stay home from school all day playing computer games is no comparison to a 13 year old choosing what subjects he wants to do in school. So it really is a silly comparison. And what subjects to do in first year is a choice most 12/13 year olds should be capable of making for themselves, and indeed in the school my children attend is a choice they are encouraged to make for themselves.

MrMusician18

OP, Tech Graphics is probably less relevant than you think for Engineering or Architecture. At JC level the subjects are so broad that nothing really limits future choices. It's good that you're taking an interest though, but that's really for senior cycle, where poor subject choices can mean students do not have the subjects for minimum entry requirements for courses. This can be a particular issue for STEM in third level.

Physics and maths are two important subjects for engineering, and having Art, rather than tech draw makes getting into architecture school easier.

SortingYouOut

D13exile wrote: »

And this is where Boards differs from the real world:rolleyes:

Had an xmas work party last night and mentioned to the folks what my son had done. 20 colleagues there and they were all gobsmacked at the school not informing me about this. All said they'd be straight onto the school to find out why he'd changed subjects without a parent being advised (asked the ex and she wasn't aware either). Furthermore, the year head took the tech graphics books I'd bought and gave them to another pupil when my son switched.

So, thanks for the personal attacks (yawn), I'll stick with my own gut instinct and advice of friends and colleagues from here on out. "He's old enough to choose for himself". At 13??? Says it all really. Maybe I'll let him choose to stay at home and play Fortnite 24/7 perhaps as that's what he'd choose if I let him.

I think you'll find that people will say what you want to hear to your face. You'll get a real opinion quicker when it's anonymous.

Dravokivich

I picked what I wanted to do in School and College. When I showed an interest in something and had the environment that allowed it, i'd say I did quite well.

Last thing a kid needs is a parent doubting their choice. By all means challenge it to a degree that the kid knows what they want. From there, help'em out with it, would be more or less what I'd be inclined to do.

1hnr79jr65

Kylen Numerous Vandal wrote: »

Thanks for your valuable input. :rolleyes: What do you believe is my 'agenda'? I quoted you directly, my reply is not out of context and there was no twisting of your words.

The idea that you would advocate that a 13 year is old enough to make such life altering decisions on his own, so he can "learn about choices" and/or "support the child's creativity" , is ridiculous. Your post is ill-considered.

The OP (nor I) mentioned forcing his kid to pick particular subjects. Cut out that nonsense please.

His kid needs guidance from both the school and from his parents, we agree on that much.

My input is based on my experience, i picked the subjects i wished to do in school, i sat with my father and discussed the options and what each choice could mean and when he understood my rationale he supported.

How about you explain what is so wrong with a 13 year old making a decision for themselves?

This young lad while executing his decision has had difficulty, he has shown a great maturity to take the step to discuss with his year head/teacher to see what suits. Yes the op may be upset and i can understand his point of view but the reality is a discussion between them and the mother on his sons development would be beneficial to understand the teens direction and focus.

Many kids these days have little interest in going to school let alone making decisions that will keep them interested in education. And the op did point out he wanted TG for his teenager to study. Helping a young person grow in their life and develop means also at times allowing them to make decisions, that is life experience.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

seamus wrote: »

Or not, even. You could pick 8 subjects for the leaving cert and end up in a career that uses none of them.

"Future-proofing" any child through their subject choices will not work, and changing TG for woodwork is not a "life-altering" change by any stretch of the imagination. There is no career path that you will find yourself excluded from by not picking a particular subject in school.

School is annoying and boring enough without having to do subjects you hate.

Well, not quite. Some third-level courses do have prerequisite subjects - Higher Maths for engineering, Higher Chemistry for veterinary etc.

But it’s not clear whether the OP’s son has expressed any interest in architecture or engineering. Though when I looked into doing architecture, the architects I spoke to said that Art was a more valuable LC subject to have than Tech Graphics. And Maths is king if you want to do engineering.

Forcing a kid to do a subject they don’t like is a bad idea. My mother leaned on my brother to do LC French because she was afraid it would limit his choice of college courses. He failed it.

Baggly

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, not quite. Some third-level courses do have prerequisite subjects - Higher Maths for engineering, Higher Chemistry for veterinary etc.

But it’s not clear whether the OP’s son has expressed any interest in architecture or engineering. Though when I looked into doing architecture, the architects I spoke to said that Art was a more valuable LC subject to have than Tech Graphics. And Maths is king if you want to do engineering.

In fairness, you dont pick those subjects in JC.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Pter wrote: »

In fairness, you dont pick those subjects in JC.

In some schools, there’s an option to drop science after first year actually. I was surprised to learn that, but there you go. It’s not treated as a core subject up to JC in every school. The science education of one of my good friends ended at 13, believe it or not.

Baggly

I did not know that! Thank you for the info!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Pter wrote: »

I did not know that! Thank you for the info!

I was a bit horrified to discover that. I think everyone should have a little bit of science knowledge. But I have a science degree so I’m biased.

I think the option to drop science is more prevalent in girls’ schools. That’s what I gather anyway.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

My brother did woodwork to LC and it seemed to me that it was a subject that would help build spatial awareness. I still remember all the diagrams and drawings he did. They were quite impressive. I can’t see woodwork as being detrimental to somebody wanting to study engineering.

rainbowtrout

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Surprised he had to do this,

Usually Wood work and Tech graphics are on different times as its a boys* subject and usually clash with Home Ec or art.

They do go hand in hand, so most schools allow for them both to be studied.

* Snowflakes need not reply, thats just the way it is in schools. And of course girls can do it.

Some schools have more than one woodwork class in first year. In my school it's popular enough that we often have three classes on different blocks. It's probably the same in this school.


With regard to subject choice for first years: most students are actually quite sensible about the subjects they pick. They know they are going to be studying the subject for three years. If it was based on their experience in primary school, then they would all be doing art as it was the fun treat on Friday afternoons in primary. Yet this isn't the case. From seeing it in my own school, we typically only have one art class in first year.

We are also one of the schools that is offering PE as an exam subject this year. I did wonder when we offered it to the incoming fifth years a year ago if there would be lots of students opting for it because they thought it would be a bit of craic being able to do sport for 5 classes a week instead of geography or french or accounting etc. There's probably about 18 in the class, those that have a genuine interest in sport, rather than viewing it as a doss class.

Students do tend to gravitate towards subjects that they like and to subjects that will bring them in a general direction career wise.

the_syco

D13exile wrote: »

I feel there’s more to this than he’s letting on but he said that’s what happened.

Consider that if you go full nuclear on him, and he'll either tell you less in future, or try to avoid spending time with you.

GalwayGrrrrrl

seamus wrote: »

Or not, even. You could pick 8 subjects for the leaving cert and end up in a career that uses none of them.

.... There is no career path that you will find yourself excluded from by not picking a particular subject in school.

School is annoying and boring enough without having to do subjects you hate.

If you don’t choose chemistry you can’t be accepted into the degree courses for veterinary medicine or pharmacy (and probably other careers). I had a work experience girl recently who wanted to be a vet but didn’t do chemistry to leaving cert. i know you can take a subject later in life but much simpler to choose the correct subjects at age 15-16.

skooterblue2

Pter wrote: »

In fairness, you dont pick those subjects in JC.

I went to one of those VEC school where you were told "shurr - up and be grateful for what you got". Straight out of Dickensian squalor.

Then we had a psycho Irish teacher who the parents were terrified of, he was summarily dismissed at his next school for being a prick. If I only knew what I know now I could gotten out of his backward class.

Simi

Pressuring a child to do subjects they're not interested in, could actually have a detrimental effect on their future studies / career path.

I wanted to do woodwork and was pressured to study TG. I relented and spent 3 years doing something I had no faculty for. It was by far my worst result in the Junior cert and I dropped it.

For leaving cert I wanted to study all 3 sciences. Again I was pushed to do at least one business subject to keep my options open, and geography for "the points". I loathed Accounting, scraped a pass but I did get loads more points than I needed for my college choice - Science.

I had to work hard in college to build up a basic knowledge of biology and chemistry that I missed out on. Luckily my course assumed no fore knowledge and first year was dedicated to the fundamentals of each subject, as I assume most college courses are.

Kids should be encouraged to pursue subjects they enjoy, not those that keep their options open or for "points".

lawred2

Gileadi wrote: »

I’m an engineer, did woodwork instead of tech graphics, calm down

I'm an engineer, did art instead of tech drawing

rainbowtrout

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

If you don’t choose chemistry you can’t be accepted into the degree courses for veterinary medicine or pharmacy (and probably other careers). I had a work experience girl recently who wanted to be a vet but didn’t do chemistry to leaving cert. i know you can take a subject later in life but much simpler to choose the correct subjects at age 15-16.

Most schools do offer information to third years about subject choice and where specific subjects may be necessary for certain careers. Chemistry is one that sticks out a lot for pharmacy, veterinary and medicine. Not all schools offer chemistry.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Simi wrote: »

Pressuring a child to do subjects they're not interested in, could actually have a detrimental effect on their future studies / career path.

I wanted to do woodwork and was pressured to study TG. I relented and spent 3 years doing something I had no faculty for. It was by far my worst result in the Junior cert and I dropped it.

For leaving cert I wanted to study all 3 sciences. Again I was pushed to do at least one business subject to keep my options open, and geography for "the points". I loathed Accounting, scraped a pass but I did get loads more points than I needed for my college choice - Science.

I had to work hard in college to build up a basic knowledge of biology and chemistry that I missed out on. Luckily my course assumed no fore knowledge and first year was dedicated to the fundamentals of each subject, as I assume most college courses are.

Kids should be encouraged to pursue subjects they enjoy, not those that keep their options open or for "points".

Not all! I did science in college and didn’t do LC Chemistry. Anyone who hadn’t studied LC Chemistry was required to do a two-week crash course laid on by TCD before the start of term because the first year chemistry course was more advanced than higher LC Chemistry and we would have been totally lost. The lecturers moved through the material fast too so the pre-term crash course was absolutely essential.

LC Higher Chemistry should have been listed as a prerequisite for the course if they saw the need to give a crash course to anyone who didn’t study it.