Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

Fann Linn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Sitting on someone is one way to keep someone the ground who’s determined to fight you. The fault is with the farmer who started it by resisting.

As regards numbers, your point being what? A greater numerical advantage decreases the chance of resistance and the chance of them being injured themselves. What’s so sinister about that?

The 70 that landed up last night obviously applied your logic.

Mrsmum

JCJCJC wrote: »

It was said here earlier that the loan was used to expand the farm, so they’re only recently on part of it. It could have been somebody else’s since the time of Fiona McCool before that but so what. How unreasonable is it for the bank to expect full repayments? If you put ten grand on deposit in a bank, would you be happy to get three grand back and go whistle for the rest of it?

The original part they will likely care about as much as you would care about your children. That's farmers I know anyway.

I don't mean they shouldn't pay but lesser payments over a longer term with reviews along the way. Farms can be very up and down over the long term so what's not possible to pay in lean times changes completely a few years later.

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

The original part they will likely care about as much as you would care about your children. That's farmers I know anyway.

I don't mean they shouldn't pay but lesser payments over a longer term with reviews along the way. Farms can be very up and down over the long term so what's not possible to pay in lean times changes completely a few years later.

you know many farmers put their children up as loan collateral, do you

Sean.3516

Omackeral wrote: »

tHeY WeReN't ReAl SeCuRiTy MeN

(Good way to avoid your question)

But they worked for a security company did they not?

tayto lover

Nobody has explained -

1. How much was owed?
2. Was there efforts made to recoup the losses rather than evict?
3. Is there proof the security people were Northern Loyalists?
4. Why was a retired garda assaulted and why no arrests if true?

JJayoo

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

Well obviously violence like this isn't gonna help resolve anything.

But at the same time, if it was my mother or father being hurt and there was a video of it doing a loop in my brain and they were in the house, I would want to hurt the security guys very very badly.

This is the problem, you are expecting very emotional people to act rational and these things don't blend well.

Graniteville

Seems this case has been going on for over 5 years and legal fees are well in 6 figures

And people wonder why banks charge higher rates here that elsewhere?

If this was any other country, they would have been evicted within 3 months of not coming to a reasonable agreement and new owners would be in situ within 6 months.


So next time you look at your 3% to 4.5% mortgage, think of how much is subsidising non payers like this.

Guy:Incognito

JJayoo wrote: »

No I asked you a direct question and you avoided answering it, no problem thankfully boards has an ignore function

You asked a horesjit emotive question with nothing to do with the thread. Do you follow gards around shouting at them asking if they'd be ok with their father being handcuffed and thrown in a garda car when arrested?
Your question is only designed to deflect and try get something you can point at and say "see see, you admit it's a disgrace"

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody has explained -

1. How much was owed?
2. Was there efforts made to recoup the losses rather than evict?
3. Is there proof the security people were Northern Loyalists?
4. Why was a retired garda assaulted and why no arrests if true?

5. why does it matter what he was retired from

pablo128

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't mean they shouldn't pay but lesser payments over a longer term with reviews along the way. Farms can be very up and down over the long term so what's not possible to pay in lean times changes completely a few years later.

Several posters here have enquired as to how it came to this but no one is willing to give any info. One poster claiming to be a local said it's none of his business.

Guy:Incognito

Fann Linn wrote: »

. There was 8 of them against 2 men and a woman.

How many "non gender defined possible humans" were looking after the house when 70 people attacked it? Presumably unless there were 70 of them , you completely condemn every one of them and their actions?

Sean.3516

Fann Linn wrote: »

The 70 that landed up last night obviously applied your logic.

Only in terms of their numbers. They carried out an actual beating. And they committed a crime. They’re the real scum in this issue.

eagle eye

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Yep. Shut off access Irish companies have to operate and tender for business in 26 other countries. Bloody foreigners.........

Don't get your knickers in a twist
I'm only pointing out that it's the type of thing that could be used by a pro-Irexit crowd.

mulbot

ismat wrote: »

If they refuse to leave then what do you do ? Tbf the guards were there and didn’t see anything wrong with what the security guys did (from the reports ive seen). You would need a hardy crew of guys going on to repossess if you were expecting the response that came. We are going down s dangerous road if you can’t execute a court order due to being in fear of a gang of local thugs

Then you need to have the law enforcement of said country to act on removing the evictees.


We are going down a dangerous road when evictions can take place by private (illegally unidentified)"security personnel" using physical force.

Lefty Bicek

the_syco wrote: »

The video that I've seen is low res, but I'm wondering if the person being wrestled to the ground at the gate was even one of the people being evicted, or a neighbour?

I wonder if that is the ex-Guard ?

As that's going on there's someone on the video shouting 'That's one of yere own'.

Might be addressing the Guards there on duty ?

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

5. why does it matter what he was retired from

It would explain that maybe he thought what was happening was over the top and there was no justifiable reason for excessive force.

tayto lover

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I wonder if that is the ex-Guard ?

As that's going on there's someone on the video shouting 'That's one of yere own'.

Might be addressing the Guards there on duty ?

Have you a link to that video please?

Sean.3516

JJayoo wrote: »

Well obviously violence like this isn't gonna help resolve anything.

But at the same time, if it was my mother or father being hurt and there was a video of it doing a loop in my brain and they were in the house, I would want to hurt the security guys very very badly.

This is the problem, you are expecting very emotional people to act rational and these things don't blend well.

Being emotionally upset doesn’t entitle you to break the law. You say your against violence but try to excuse their actions.

Guy:Incognito

Mrsmum wrote: »

The original part they will likely care about as much as you would care about your children. That's farmers I know anyway.

I don't mean they shouldn't pay but lesser payments over a longer term with reviews along the way. Farms can be very up and down over the long term so what's not possible to pay in lean times changes completely a few years later.

But are they not "elderly" ? How long can you extend loans to old people and realistically expect to see your money?

Mrsmum

Also re the bank taking over the farm with presumably the intention to sell it - good luck with that.

JCJCJC

Deleted User wrote: »

5. why does it matter what he was retired from

It matters because he should have had more respect for the rule of law, he should have known from experience what was coming when he didnt pay back what he borrowed, he shouldn’t have put serving members in the horrible position he did, and he should have had enough common sense to walk away peaceably when the crunch finally came.
And, he should be on the media this evening condemning the vigilantes who have committed criminal acts in his cause.

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

Don't get your knickers in a twist
I'm only pointing out that it's the type of thing that could be used by a pro-Irexit crowd.

You were only "pointing out" about banks being loaned money too but you ignored the reply to that.

the_syco

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I wonder if that is the ex-Guard ?

As that's going on there's someone on the video shouting 'That's one of yere own'.

Might be addressing the Guards there on duty ?

If the Guards knew who he was, and let the security firm do whatever, I'd wonder was he a local troublemaker/annoyance since leaving the force?

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

If the Guards knew who he was, and let the security firm do whatever, I'd wonder was he a local troublemaker/annoyance since leaving the force?

Was he not one of the “elderly” brothers?

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

Was he not one of the “elderly” brothers?

No. He's not even from Roscommon. He's a Longford man.

Lefty Bicek

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you a link to that video please?

https://www.facebook.com/vinbpeoplesinternetradio/videos/2262124647191556/

eagle eye

Guy:Incognito wrote:

You were only "pointing out" about banks being loaned money too but you ignored the reply to that.

There's been a lot if posts in this thread and it's easy to miss one.
I seen one reply but just dismissed it as unimportant.

JCJCJC

The seventy baseball bat artistes is down to twenty according to the RTÉ nine o’clock news this evening.

Lefty Bicek

the_syco wrote: »

If the Guards knew who he was, and let the security firm do whatever, I'd wonder was he a local troublemaker/annoyance since leaving the force?

No idea. For all we know, he was a whistleblower when he was in it.

ismat

mulbot wrote: »

Then you need to have the law enforcement of said country to act on removing the evictees.


We are going down a dangerous road when evictions can take place by private (illegally unidentified)"security personnel" using physical force.

I’m not sure as to the legalities of the eviction. I assume the Garda present would of intervened if an illegal eviction taking place or if the security personnel are not allowed work in the country. This would possibly be a matter for the sheriff that is enforcing the court warrant if his subcontractors were not entitled to work in the country.
Evictions are a civil matter as far as I am aware so the Garda input is limited to protecting the personnel enforcing the warrant and they cannot by law interfere with the process

eagle eye

JCJCJC wrote:

The seventy baseball bat artistes is down to twenty according to the RTÉ nine o’clock news this evening.

If it's the crowd from the north I have it from a good authority that it was 26.

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

There's been a lot if posts in this thread and it's easy to miss one.
I seen one reply but just dismissed it as unimportant.

A lot of that going around when replies don't suit

ArchXStanton

Should have left the dogs out of it... Bastards

Omackeral

Graniteville wrote: »

Seems this case has been going on for over 5 years and legal fees are well in 6 figures

If this was any other country, they would have been evicted within 3 months of not coming to a reasonable agreement and new owners would be in situ within 6 months.

Disgrace.
Bankers.
Leo.
Moustache.

eagle eye

Guy:Incognito wrote:

A lot of that going around when replies don't suit

Well as I said I only remember seen one reply and it wasn't important enough yo reply to imo.

koheim

Graniteville wrote: »

Seems this case has been going on for over 5 years and legal fees are well in 6 figures

And people wonder why banks charge higher rates here that elsewhere?

If this was any other country, they would have been evicted within 3 months of not coming to a reasonable agreement and new owners would be in situ within 6 months.


So next time you look at your 3% to 4.5% mortgage, think of how much is subsidising non payers like this.

This is just not true, and not the reason we pay 100% more in interest rates than rest of Europe. Do not defend the punitive high interest rates we have as this has nothing to do with this. Bank might want you to believe this is the reason.

Billcarson

JCJCJC wrote: »

The seventy baseball bat artistes is down to twenty according to the RTÉ nine o’clock news this evening.

Only wish I was one of them

Billcarson

Mr Taylor, a Castlerea native and close friend of Anthony, continued: “At about 8.30am on Tuesday we were aware that there could be an eviction. Anthony was trying to deal with the bank [KBC Bank] and he told them he was happy to pay them so much a month, at least €1,000.

“But KBC Bank wouldn’t do any discussions with him whatsoever.

“They’ve lived there for generations and they would have paid back what they could have afforded if they got a fair chance.”

Guy:Incognito

Billcarson wrote: »

Mr Taylor, a Castlerea native and close friend of Anthony, continued: “At about 8.30am on Tuesday we were aware that there could be an eviction. Anthony was trying to deal with the bank [KBC Bank] and he told them he was happy to pay them so much a month, at least €1,000.

“But KBC Bank wouldn’t do any discussions with him whatsoever.

“They’ve lived there for generations and they would have paid back what they could have afforded if they got a fair chance.”

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it"
Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

cameramonkey

the_syco wrote: »

If the Guards knew who he was, and let the security firm do whatever, I'd wonder was he a local troublemaker/annoyance since leaving the force?

A bit like Maurice McCabe?

BattleCorp

First point.

If they were in financial trouble, why not sell off some of the land to pay down debt?

Second point.

Farms aren't sacrosanct just because they belong to the same family for generations. They are businesses like any other. Many shops, pubs etc have been repossessed even though they have been owned by the same family for generations.

Farmers aren't special. They have to pay their debts just like the rest of us.

end of the road

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What were his injuries? And if he was violently resisting, why can’t the private security guys defend themselves.

they can defend themselves within reason, however one is also allowed to resist them given they are not the gards. only if one resists the police arresting or moving people on is there an issue.

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

it was unlawful and the law machinery will do it's work.

ismat

Billcarson wrote: »

Mr Taylor, a Castlerea native and close friend of Anthony, continued: “At about 8.30am on Tuesday we were aware that there could be an eviction. Anthony was trying to deal with the bank [KBC Bank] and he told them he was happy to pay them so much a month, at least €1,000.

“But KBC Bank wouldn’t do any discussions with him whatsoever.

“They’ve lived there for generations and they would have paid back what they could have afforded if they got a fair chance.”

What a generous offer to repay at least a 1,000. How about paying back what is due. Or if they can’t make repayment sell some land , possibly the land they bought with the loan, and pay down some capital

eagle eye

Guy:Incognito wrote:

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

So you'd prefer that people are turfed out on the street?
You do realise that if they agreed to take the money that they still have rights to the property until the debt is paid off?

Guy:Incognito wrote:

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it" Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

I don't think that's the same thing. Are you saying that I'm loaning the bank money when I put it in a savings account?

JCJCJC

cameramonkey wrote: »

A bit like Gerry McCabe?

Get your names right ffs.

Billcarson

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it"
Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

Why don't you go and kiss your bank managers ass since your all for the banks. At least they tried to come to some sort of arrangement. Wtf is your problem.

cameramonkey

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it"
Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

Banks dont work like that they dont keep your cash, they keep a small percentage and loan the rest, if we all wanted our money out what you describe above is exactly would happen.

bb12

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it"
Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

farming loans are structured completely differently to regular mortgages. everyone understands that farming yields and hence profits can vary a lot from year to year, depending on weather etc. just look at the disastrous year the vegetable growers have had this year due to the drought. banks are aware of this and loan repayments are usually structured to cater for this. a farmer does not repay loans on a monthly basis but often a once yearly payment in a lot of cases.

Billcarson

ismat wrote: »

What a generous offer to repay at least a 1,000. How about paying back what is due. Or if they can’t make repayment sell some land , possibly the land they bought with the loan, and pay down some capital

What's wrong with you people. The poor banks eh. They would shake you by the hand and stab you with the other. Bunch of mefeiners. Well I just hope this country changes and fights against the elite scum that are running it.

jmayo

klaaaz wrote: »

A loyalist eviction squad has been evicted in Roscommon! The comments on the video has been quite supportive of the raid, this is maybe a turning point in the eviction war.

And will you be on at some stage in future bitching and moaning because you or your kids can't get a mortgage or can't afford the high interest rates.
The problem is not enough fooking freeloaders have been evicted.

Deleted User wrote: »

back in 2008 when the government was going to bail out the banks they should have cut x% off all mortgages taken out between 2004 and 2008 (or something like that)

you know if they were going to put the money in anyway and charge us all for it and cut and tax for it all anyway

So tough shyte if you took out a mortgage some other time ehh. :rolleyes:

I am sick and fooking tired of Irish people thinking that they have some god given fooking right to walk away from their debts scot free.

First it was because they were missled, because the ar** fell out of the property prices and the loans far outweighed the property value.
Now it appears farmers are somehow immune because they lived their for generations and because of a historical context ala 150 years ago.

We had one of the world's highest rates of mortgages in default yet we had one of the lowest repossession rates.

And do you know who carries the can for that.
It is the poor dumb bastards, the honest ones that break their ar**es every month to repay their loans.
It is not as some would play it some mythical banker that suffers, it is the ones whose interest rates are high, the ones whose bank charges are high.

Pay your fooking debts or else.