Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

whisky_galore

None of this looks good, but if the 'poor oul lad' made an effort to pay his way he would have a nice uninterrupted Xmas.
The bank sure as sh1t could have handled it a hell of a lot better optics-wise.

Is there any 'nice' way of evicting someone who is not going to go quietly, I'd like to know? Or how are banks supposed to get something out of people who refuse to play ball?

The manner in which the eviction was carried out...... This is the big issue with many posters.
But, if the residents just left the house as per court order, there wouldn't have been any issues.

The residents decided before the eviction that they would fight it they brought any problems on themselves.

gandalf

STB. wrote: »

The banks did not know how to recover monies they gave out in the late 90s early 2000s so their solution was to sell them off to vulture funds, 10 years later. We will have a lot more of this over the next while.

Serious question here. Given the back story and mob behaviour after the eviction do you think banks are any more likely to deal with bad debtors like Mr McGann themselves or to sell those debts off to vulture funds and let them deal with them.

Up until this I found the idea of vulture funds buying up distressed loans wrong but this whole situation in Strokestown is leading me to reevaluate that feeling. If you have someone who drew down a loan and didn't bother to repay anything off it for 14 years then I think the bank is well within their rights to sell the loan off to another company to recover some of their investment.

BattleCorp

Anybody any idea how much was owed on the mortgage?

The reason I'm asking is that out of the sale of the farm, surely the revenue would get first call on the money they are owed (almost €500k) and then the bank get the rest towards the mortgage if there's anything left.

Is that the way it works?

gctest50

STB. wrote: »

Everything else is a a side show including:

Cheating the taxpayer. There is no need to raise this as a point. There are TD's in the Dáil who are repeat offenders in this area yet......

side show ?

that post is straight out of the bowels of facebook

same as this one :

other people drive too fast and get away with it, why should you get done for speeding ?

gctest50

Plenty houses to rent in Roscommon :

https://touch.daft.ie/search/results?search%5Bareas%5D%5B%5D=%7B%22id%22%3A21%2C%22name%22%3A%22Co.+Roscommon%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22county%22%7D&search%5Bad-type%5D=rental&search%5Bsale-or-rental%5D=&search%5Bmin-price%5D=&search%5Bmax-price%5D=1000&search%5Bmin-bed%5D=&search%5Bmax-bed%5D=&search%5Bmin-size%5D=&search%5Bmax-size%5D=&search%5Bmin-bath%5D=&search%5Bmax-bath%5D=&search%5Broom%5D=&search%5Bsort%5D=best-match&search%5Baddress%5D=

blueythebear

The chap did not pay his debts and the Bank repossessed the property. The Garda, the Sheriff and the Courts all oversaw the process. The Bank went about this within the law. The borrower breached contract law while the mob were in breach of criminal law.

You can say all you want about the eviction on Tuesday but there was nothing on video of any law broken in my view and the Gardai oversaw everything.

There will be one outcome of this whole fiasco however that will be of concern to all of the supporters of this type of scumbag action... you will have the non-irish Banks leaving Ireland and more vulture funds moving in. AIB and the other Irish banks will become more circumspect with their lending and there will not be any letup on the mortgage lending rules, which the Banks may even lobby to be tightened. Interest rates will remain high for everyone also, so it looks like Joe Public are going to pay again for this chancer.

I said it before also but it's worth repeating. This individual is laughing at everyone as he thinks he has gotten away with not repaying yet another debt he has incurred. The level of public support for a tax defaulter and serial non-payer is shocking and if this is the way rural Ireland thinks, then I for one welcome a rural / urban divide.

BattleCorp

gctest50 wrote: »

Plenty houses to rent in Roscommon :

https://touch.daft.ie/search/results?search%5Bareas%5D%5B%5D=%7B%22id%22%3A21%2C%22name%22%3A%22Co.+Roscommon%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22county%22%7D&search%5Bad-type%5D=rental&search%5Bsale-or-rental%5D=&search%5Bmin-price%5D=&search%5Bmax-price%5D=1000&search%5Bmin-bed%5D=&search%5Bmax-bed%5D=&search%5Bmin-size%5D=&search%5Bmax-size%5D=&search%5Bmin-bath%5D=&search%5Bmax-bath%5D=&search%5Broom%5D=&search%5Bsort%5D=best-match&search%5Baddress%5D=

Honest question. As a landlord, would you rent to this crowd given their history when it comes to paying for stuff?

odyssey06

BattleCorp wrote: »

Honest question. As a landlord, would you rent to this crowd given their history when it comes to paying for stuff?

Or as a bank lend any money to businesses in the area?

boombang

Young SF were protesting outside the KBC branch on Dame Street in Dublin. I was really tempted to ask them what the consequences of stopping evictions would be. I'd also like to know if they support the vigilantes.

I really wonder about people who spend time protesting about such issues: how much reflection have they engaged in at all.

gctest50

BattleCorp wrote: »

Honest question. As a landlord, would you rent to this crowd given their history when it comes to paying for stuff?

He seems very popular up there

Maybe one of the 70 that came to help has a house for rent

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

In some cases yes, these guys - probably.
Things that would need to be done to level the playing field, take the wind out of violent mobs sails, and take the wind out of the sails of people like me would be:

More non recourse lending - put the weight of responsibility on the banks
No issuing mortgages that extend beyond the working life of someone (i.e you are 50 and they issue you a 30 year mortgage)
Make it illegal for a bank to seek a guarantor for lending - no more bankrupting mammy and daddy if you default etc. The banks need to assess if a borrower can stand on their own two feet and not seek to stack the game 100% in their favour.
If a bank is found to be in breach of lending standards and IF the defaulter is all out of assets and the last thing left if their home then the courts should be able to determine if a write down up to X% is appropriate.
If you lend for something like farm machinery or a car - you can seize the assets but nothing else - i.e you cant go after someones home, but you could go after say an investment property or maybe even the surrounding farm land.

But above all - equality in the justice system. Its a vital part of a functioning democracy to see justice handed out evenly. You cant have Sean Fitzpatrick in a mansion still with millions after going bankrupt while dragging people out of their homes for what is the same thing. I`d argue that Fitzpatrick deserves harsher treatment because it affected the whole country. Anyway I know it can sound like whataboutery but this is what the violent mobs see and this is what creates the feeling of injustice that gives the evictees the backing.

KBC were bailed out by Belgium (the HQ in Belgium pumped the money into the Irish branch as per my posts with full links the other day) because their landing practices were so bad their business would have failed. They have never had to take any punishment for these landing practices. So in a perverse way I`m glad to see the banks hitting a wall.

You do know what will happen if the things you suggest above were implemented? There would quite frankly be no retail banking whatsoever. None.

Make all loans non-recourse? Remind us how expensive credit card debt is, and how you'd think that would be fine for a mortgage. It's clowns like you that are putting out ill thought out, stupid and populist ideas that will only lead to ruin.

STB.

gandalf wrote: »

Serious question here. Given the back story and mob behaviour after the eviction do you think banks are any more likely to deal with bad debtors like Mr McGann themselves or to sell those debts off to vulture funds and let them deal with them.

Up until this I found the idea of vulture funds buying up distressed loans wrong but this whole situation in Strokestown is leading me to reevaluate that feeling. If you have someone who drew down a loan and didn't bother to repay anything off it for 14 years then I think the bank is well within their rights to sell the loan off to another company to recover some of their investment.

If the banks had been dealt with correctly, we wouldn't have known about the McGanns or the vulture funds or that a lot of regulation is still missing including how private security companies can operate when it comes to evictions.

The banks gave out loans, that they were inept at collecting on over a considerable period. Vulture funds were never the answer. If someone is blatantly taking the piss, then they should have been dealt with by the banks. Unfortunately you know it and I know it, the Irish banks lost the high moral ground when they were bailed out. Coupled with poor regulation it was inevitable what was next.

You have to ask the question what the banks were doing for those not paying their mortgages ? The vulture funds are turning these around fairly quickly. And their debt is not at the level the banks had who sold it off at a considerable discount no doubt.

I dont have a solution, but the behavoural template not to follow is to needlessly raise the local community or let it get to a stage where dissidents within the state take advantage and it all becomes a side show.

BattleCorp

It's been mentioned here that no payments were made on the mortgage for 14 years. Is that true? Has that been printed in the media anywhere?

gctest50

Anthony McGann is the sole owner of five portfolios of land in Co Roscommon against which judgment orders have been registered.

In 1997, a Circuit Court judgement for £6,994 (€8,853) was obtained against him following a dispute with ACC Bank.It appears the debt was cleared five years later.

A further debt of €37,960 with ACC Asset Finance became the subject of a High Court order in 2009, and still stands against Mr McGann.

Co Roscommon business Hanly Brothers Ltd registered a debt of €18,236 against McGann after securing an order the same year. It also remains outstanding, according to Land Registry records.

There were further High Court orders for undisclosed amounts made against him in favour of ACC Asset Finance in 2010,

and Bank of Ireland Leasing Ltd, trading as Land Rover Financial Services, in 2011.

A mortgage debt was also registered against McGann by ICS Building Society in 2012, and has yet to be repaid.

Then three years ago, the taxman made a settlement over a debt of €429,501 for under-declared VAT, of which more than half was interest and penalties.

It is not clear what business activity McGann was involved in.

gandalf

boombang wrote: »

Young SF were protesting outside the KBC branch on Dame Street in Dublin. I was really tempted to ask them what the consequences of stopping evictions would be. I'd also like to know if they support the vigilantes.

I really wonder about people who spend time protesting about such issues: how much reflection have they engaged in at all.

There is a serious lack of critical thinking at all levels in Irish Society these days. Populism and Social Media poison are influencing a significant minority and it's pushing them towards a very unsavory destination.

We've already seen it in this thread, anti-foreigner rhetoric, lack of personal responsibility, willingness to support and even engage in vigilantism at the drop of a hat without a true picture of the situation.

I don't know if the eviction could have been handled better, as others have said if people don't leave after a valid court order what are the steps then? Was there a problem with who carried out the eviction, I don't know but I doubt that there is a massive choice of sub contractors out there for what is very unpleasant and possibly dangerous work.

blueythebear

I note that Ben Gilroy is also involved claiming that if you live in a house for 12 years then you defeat the Banks mortgage. Once again, Gilroy gets the legal information totally wrong.

He's also making threats to anyone who attempts to evict anyone in Ireland.

Anyone who cannot see this type of intimidation and thuggery as a threat to law and order in the state is deluding themselves.

gandalf

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's been mentioned here that no payments were made on the mortgage for 14 years. Is that true? Has that been printed in the media anywhere?

No to be fair someone mentioned it here from a contact they had "who was in the know" so it could be bull****e as well. However from reading what has been put in the press it sounds consistent with the behaviour exhibited by this "farmer".

STB.

gctest50 wrote: »

side show ?

that post is straight out of the bowels of facebook

same as this one :

Yes a side show.

You were one of those that started the tax dodging.

Our country is full of them, including ones will holding positions in the Dáil.

The debt and refusal to pay the bank was enough.

gctest50

STB. wrote: »

Yes a side show.

You were one of those that started the tax dodging.

Our country is full of them, including ones will holding positions in the Dáil.

The debt and refusal to pay the bank was enough.

STB. wrote: »

Yes a side show.

You were one of those that started the tax dodging.

Because it's the same guy

The guy central to all this

Mrsmum

I think the bank should have been pragmatic here ie jump on the chance to work with the offer of €1000 at least per month. That means €1000 every month and multiples of that in productive months ie spring/summer. If the family have no notion of paying that either, well the bank are no worse off a few months down the line. Even putting them out on a fine day in July has way better optics than putting them out in winter two weeks before Christmas. And repossessing will bring in not one euro for the bank. This isn't some house in Blanchardstown or Glasnevin where people will queue to snap it up. No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

Mrsmum

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the bank should have been pragmatic here ie jump on the chance to work with the offer of €1000 at least per month. That means €1000 every month and multiples of that in productive months ie spring/summer. If the family have no notion of paying that either, well the bank are no worse off a few months down the line. Even putting them out on a fine day in July has way better optics than putting them out in winter two weeks before Christmas. And repossessing will bring in not one euro for the bank. This isn't some house in Blanchardstown or Glasnevin where people will queue to snap it up. No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

How long would it take to clear all his debts at €1,000 a month? (Assuming that he’d actually pay it)

runawaybishop

Gardaí are probing whether the vigilante gang who attacked security guards at a repossessed Co Roscommon farmhouse at the weekend had been given the go-ahead by local criminals.

It is now being probed if the vigilantes’ involvement in the attack was “sanctioned” by a number of crime groups operating in the area who are heavily involved in cattle smuggling.

“Dissidents from the North and Dublin are suspected of involvement. They reached a deal with local crime groups allowing for them to carry out the attacks on their turf,” one source said.

The ‘local’ criminals include a CAB target who is originally from Sligo, as well as a notorious crime family operating in north Roscommon.

runawaybishop

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the bank should have been pragmatic here ie jump on the chance to work with the offer of €1000 at least per month. That means €1000 every month and multiples of that in productive months ie spring/summer. If the family have no notion of paying that either, well the bank are no worse off a few months down the line. Even putting them out on a fine day in July has way better optics than putting them out in winter two weeks before Christmas. And repossessing will bring in not one euro for the bank. This isn't some house in Blanchardstown or Glasnevin where people will queue to snap it up. No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

Would you ever **** off. He's had over a decade to pay money and hasn't, as if he would start now.

Mrsmum

Deleted User wrote: »

How long would it take to clear all his debts at €1,000 a month? (Assuming that he’d actually pay it)

Farms bring in nothing during the winter but a lot in spring/summer. So €1000 as a minimum. They'll get nothing otherwise.

gandalf

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the bank should have been pragmatic here ie jump on the chance to work with the offer of €1000 at least per month. That means €1000 every month and multiples of that in productive months ie spring/summer. If the family have no notion of paying that either, well the bank are no worse off a few months down the line. Even putting them out on a fine day in July has way better optics than putting them out in winter two weeks before Christmas. And repossessing will bring in not one euro for the bank. This isn't some house in Blanchardstown or Glasnevin where people will queue to snap it up. No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

Let's be honest here. Looking at this guys repayment history, the fact he has a default judgement against him by Revenue. The fact that this offer was only forthcoming when he knew the bailiffs were on the way are you surprised that the bank/sheriff ignored it? I certainly wouldn't blame them.

RossieMan

Deleted User wrote:

How long would it take to clear all his debts at €1,000 a month? (Assuming that he’d actually pay it)

41 years for just the tax he hasn't paid.
It's also complete bollocks and they'd probably not pay that after a couple of months.

It's crazy these people have such protection. I don't agree with how they were thrown out, but they do not deserve the farm or house.

Mrsmum

runawaybishop wrote: »

Would you ever **** off. He's had over a decade to pay money and hasn't, as if he would start now.

He might when his back is to the wall. Some people are like that. But say you're right. Better to put them out in July.

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

How long would it take to clear all his debts at €1,000 a month? (Assuming that he’d actually pay it)

Unless it was a very low interest rate, he'd never clear it at that level (assuming this debt is valuable enough to warrant a full-time security detail on the property). €1000 wouldn't cover interest on a debt of 500k, although we don't know the full picture or size of the debt in this instance.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod: riemann, don't post here again

Boggles

runawaybishop wrote: »

Gardaí are probing whether the vigilante gang who attacked security guards at a repossessed Co Roscommon farmhouse at the weekend had been given the go-ahead by local criminals.

It is now being probed if the vigilantes’ involvement in the attack was “sanctioned” by a number of crime groups operating in the area who are heavily involved in cattle smuggling.

“Dissidents from the North and Dublin are suspected of involvement. They reached a deal with local crime groups allowing for them to carry out the attacks on their turf,” one source said.

The ‘local’ criminals include a CAB target who is originally from Sligo, as well as a notorious crime family operating in north Roscommon.

Let me take a wild guess, the Indo? Am I right?

I do laugh at the reported sophisticated level of planning that went into this attack.

The evidence? They blocked a small road with 2 silage bales. :rolleyes:

Had to be MI6, that is just genius.

Suckler

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the bank should have been pragmatic here ie jump on the chance to work with the offer of €1000 at least per month. That means €1000 every month and multiples of that in productive months ie spring/summer. If the family have no notion of paying that either, well the bank are no worse off a few months down the line. Even putting them out on a fine day in July has way better optics than putting them out in winter two weeks before Christmas.

Yeah give the lad that's giving two fingers to debts for the best part of twenty years ANOTHER break. This time he'll definitely pay the month every month....

Mrsmum wrote: »

And repossessing will bring in not one euro for the bank. This isn't some house in Blanchardstown or Glasnevin where people will queue to snap it up. No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

Repossessing it won't bring in any money (did that need to be said) but selling it on will. Repossessing it was the first step. The house is small and could be demolished easily if it doesn't sell or interest the buyer. There looks to be substantial sheds at the back and farmland is still in demand. I doubt selling it will be an issue, locals will have a short memory if they fancy a piece of it.

BattleCorp

Mrsmum wrote: »

No one will buy this. The house will go to wreck and ruin and the land will be a wasteland.

I've thought long and hard about typing this but I'm going to go ahead and type it anyway.

I couldn't give a fcuk about yer man, or his house or land. I have zero sympathy for him. So what if it's Christmas week. He had 14 years to start paying and he didn't bother his hole. He owes money left, right and centre. And if he doesn't pay his mortgage, I have to pay his mortgage. And so does every other person who gets up and goes to work to pay their mortgage.

Yes, the banks fcuked up. But that doesn't give everyone else free reign to act the bollix and saddle us all with their debts.

I have sympathy for anybody struggling to make ends meet and pay a mortgage, but this cute hooooooor, nah. I couldn't give a sh1te that he's out on the side of the road.

gctest50

Mrsmum wrote: »

....

and the land will be a wasteland.

No it won't, wait till the auction is on


Were any of the five portfolios of land Anthony McGann owns bought from repos ?

Anthony McGann is the sole owner of five portfolios of land in Co Roscommon against which judgment orders have been registered.

RossieMan

BattleCorp wrote:

I have sympathy for anybody struggling to make ends meet and pay a mortgage, but this cute hooooooor, nah. I couldn't give a sh1te that he's out on the side of the road.

You haven't been following the story then. He's back in the house.

BattleCorp

RossieMan wrote: »

You haven't been following the story then. He's back in the house.

What I read was that his siblings were back in the house. But if he's back in the house, he's in breach of a court order. So another eviction is in the offing.

To be honest, if I was him I wouldn't feel safe in that house either. I don't imagine the security guards who got a hiding would be inclined to leave things be. Especially if they have links to the UV????? or whatever organisation people here claim that they belong to. Maybe not this week or next. But at some point in time I'd expect him to get a visit.

They'd be the type to hold grudges.

MrMusician18

Suckler wrote: »

Yeah give the lad that's giving two fingers to debts for the best part of twenty years ANOTHER break. This time he'll definitely pay the month every month....



Repossessing it won't bring in any money (did that need to be said) but selling it on will. Repossessing it was the first step. The house is small and could be demolished easily if it doesn't sell or interest the buyer. There looks to be substantial sheds at the back and farmland is still in demand. I doubt selling it will be an issue, locals will have a short memory if they fancy a piece of it.

There are 5 land portfolios, it's really only the one with the farmhouse that would be particularly toxic and no one would buy. The rest would be split and sold in lots.

Everything has a buyer at the right price

Boggles

BattleCorp wrote: »

So another eviction is in the offing.

I don't see many tenders for it, do you?

runawaybishop

RossieMan wrote: »

You haven't been following the story then. He's back in the house.

He'll get hoofed out again once this has quietened down. It's happened before with evictions.

Anyone watch any of ammm, ahhhh, Anne Kavanaghs videos on ah Facebook? So many poor farmers are victims of banks! Does she not understand the deal when one borrows money, it’s got to be paid back with interest. Same goes for business people charging VAT. It HAS to be paid over to the Revenue. Simples.

Edgware

If the banks and whoever was hired to take possession of this place following a court order had done the job properly there would be no fuss. This isnt some 1880 eviction with a family heading for Queenstown and New York.
The sums of money involved, including massive tax debts, show this. Those of us who pay large tax sums every year will have little sympathy for tax dodgers. What were Revenue doing to try and get their due? I'm not worried about KBC. If they follow poor lending practices thats their lookout.
Also Fitzmaurice TD has quietened down a bit when he got the full story about the monies due.
He was elected on a turf cutting vote. People are barred from cutting turf on bogs that no British landlord stopped them from using. Of course we must do what Europe tells us.

Fann Linn

Dail to discuss amendment to bill with regard to having security firms licensed when dealing with court orders and evictions.

Mrsmum

Imo things are hardly ever as straightforward as they seem. I was speaking to a farmer I know yesterday. His attitude to this was, effing banks, you can't live with them, you can't live without them. He was saying that he goes into the bank for a loan (regularly), machine broke down, unexpected winter fodder etc. Bank will only give him the small loan he needs, that he can't do without at that moment, provided he will take a bigger loan to develop. That's how banks make their money, by upselling. He needs the loan so is between a rock and a hard place. Therefore it would seem to me that banks are part of the problem with regard to farmers' debts.

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Dail to discuss amendment to bill with regard to having security firms licensed when dealing with court orders and evictions.

Hahaha it's going to be made practically impossible to do evictions. IV no doubt that security men wearing ID badges would be plastered all over social media and maybe even have their family paid a visit at home.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall the next time any farmer from Roscommon goes to the bank to look for a loan! :-)

MrMusician18

Edgware wrote: »

If the banks and whoever was hired to take possession of this place following a court order had done the job properly there would be no fuss. This isnt some 1880 eviction with a family heading for Queenstown and New York.
The sums of money involved, including massive tax debts, show this. Those of us who pay large tax sums every year will have little sympathy for tax dodgers. What were Revenue doing to try and get their due? I'm not worried about KBC. If they follow poor lending practices thats their lookout.
Also Fitzmaurice TD has quietened down a bit when he got the full story about the monies due.
He was elected on a turf cutting vote. People are barred from cutting turf on bogs that no British landlord stopped them from using. Of course we must do what Europe tells us.

I think in ten or 15 years time, the children living in that area will have the same contempt for the people that destroyed their natural heritage that I have for the people that leveled national monuments in the 60s in the name of progress in my area

blinding

bubblypop wrote: »

Who's the pensioner?

Do keep up !

The Retired Garda of course .

Edgware

Fann Linn wrote: »

Dail to discuss amendment to bill with regard to having security firms licensed when dealing with court orders and evictions.

All aboard the Sinn Fein bandwagon. Thankfully some party is against the use of masked men with weapons attacking people and taking the law into their own hands

blinding

mikeym wrote: »

A United Ireland is a bit expensive for the tax payer at the moment.

Banks are Blooming Expensive for Irish Taxpayers .

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone watch any of ammm, ahhhh, Anne Kavanaghs videos on ah Facebook? So many poor farmers are victims of banks! Does she not understand the deal when one borrows money, it’s got to be paid back with interest. Same goes for business people charging VAT. It HAS to be paid over to the Revenue. Simples.

Why don't you ask her on Facebook?

She will hardly find your question here.

FredFunk

Boggles wrote: »

Why don't you ask her on Facebook?

She will hardly find your question here.

And risk being threatened by the mob? no chance. FB is a no go territory for anybody with common sense and willing to read all the facts.