Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

Spanish Eyes

On another note, I think KBC and many other banks sold off their debts to places like Cabot.

They are the entities to be castigated if you wish to do so. But in reality they are at the end of a long road with some people, and difficult decisions/mechanisms must be made. For the sake of others who tried and are still trying to keep up their repayments.

Danzy

Naos wrote: »

Well you do. You said KBC should be locked up for who they are hiring. Now you are saying the bank messed this up.

Who did KBC hire exactly?

How did KBC mess this up?

Where is the personal responsibility from the tax-dodging farmer?

How do you imagine I said KBC should be locked up, how? No matter.

He should pay his way, hiring a goon squad was only ever going to make this an epic mess and it turned out that way.

What'll happen now is no one will buy it and he'll go back in and run the place paying off debt till he dies and they inherit enough to clear it.

He made his bed and is lying in it and they have done the same.

martingriff

JI think I heard yesterday it is the county registrar/bailiff that are tasked with the eviction so they hire not the bank

greenpilot

Firstly, KBC bank handled this incident completely inappropriately using heavy handed techniques in removing the family and it is clear to most that there are other avenues which could have been explored with regard to the debts. In that regard, it's all about optics, and they got theirs completely wrong.
Secondly, and I'm speaking as someone who moved to the West from Kildare 20 years ago, most folks in and around the Pale have no clue whatsoever of the dynamics, foibles, demographics nor way of life in what they most ignorantly refer to as "Rural Ireland" ( a term which really gets my goat up). The actions of many from the communities outside the Pale often horrify, bewilder and confuse our softer, sensitive cousins within the M50, and therefore we see the press spin many stories about country folks as if they are a bunch of pig-rearing, illiterate, ultra ignorant gombeens. As most of us know, nothing could be further from the truth. The problem with this is that, when it comes to picking Spokes Persons to chat to the Dublin Press, they choose whom they believe to be "a good talker", and of course, he/she is not, and is further ridiculed by the press. In these Instances, especially in the interest of garnering public support, it is essential to have as spokesperson someone who knows what to say, when to say it and how to say it. To play the game, as it were. Unfortunately for those speaking on behalf of the evictees, this ain't happening, resulting in negative craic in the media.......HOWEVER, I've worked in the farming arena in Roscommon for quite a number of years and the whole country is full of gob****es, living in the past with complete disregard for the status quo who love to give two fingers up to the establishment or those bastards " up in Dublin". You see it in the way they dress, farm, conduct themselves and carry themselves every day. Tractors with no tax. No herd numbers, green diesel in their cars, animal cruelty...you get the picture. Now, I'm not at all saying that the poor creatures in question were any of the above, but they were very quick to accept loans from the banks and to accept a line of credit with certain companies. It seems to have escaped their attention that these facilities come with conditions and this week, after many years in flight, the pigeons have come home to roost. From KBC's point of view, I would have chosen alternative pigeons. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Optics. Get those right and you get the people.

Danzy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If this happened in a city no one would give a sh!t really.

But in a rural community it is different. That is not to say that some in that community are not impressed with these defaulters either. But it may be an anti establishment thing going on or something.

Either way, there are a good number of people from all walks of life that have lived mortgage/repayment free for many years now, and have lived in the properties that they held up as security.

Many, many others worked their socks off to keep up their repayments. I know which cohort I admire anyway.

I'd say there is a greater contempt for those who do not pay or ask for bailouts in rural Ireland than in urban Ireland.

Most People here would starve rather than take a handout. Not all but there is definitely a greater shame in rural Ireland for not paying your dues than elsewhere

I'd actually say it is an unhealthy obsession with judging down on those who don't or can't pay their way back. Great though for making people highly work conscious though.

The way this was handled turned in to the news story it is.

Alrigghtythen

As per tradition, when someone within the family dies, their bedroom is locked and the key hidden. When the McGann’s returned to the home, the door to the siblings’ late mother’s bedroom, which had been locked since 2015, had been smashed open.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/roscommon-siblings-home-traumatized-after-violent-eviction




I never heard of this tradition. Half the houses in the country must be empty.

pablo128

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

As per tradition, when someone within the family dies, their bedroom is locked and the key hidden. When the McGann’s returned to the home, the door to the siblings’ late mother’s bedroom, which had been locked since 2015, had been smashed open.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/roscommon-siblings-home-traumatized-after-violent-eviction




I never heard of this tradition. Half the houses in the country must be empty.

It was the banks' bedroom, not the late mother's or anyone else. They had plenty of notice to pack everything up but chose not to.

People should be getting more annoyed about this tbh....

https://www.independent.ie/business/former-anglo-irish-bank-bondholders-to-be-paid-267m-by-liquidators-37637981.html

cameramonkey

h2005 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/mortgage-rates-in-ireland-are-highest-in-europe-1.3564370

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/mortgage-rates-higher-ireland-compared-eu.html

A particularly relevant quote:

"One of the reasons for higher rates cited by the Central Bank – is that there is more risk of default on mortgages in Ireland. For example – in France, they have 3% of loans classed as “Non Performing” . In Germany it is 1.87% , Spain 4.53%. Here in Ireland the rate is much higher at 11.23% ( Figures from ECB). So the banks try to get more revenue from mortgage payers to cover the higher general risk of non payment."

How come the rates in Ireland were always high even when there were few non performing loans?
people on here are really willing to swallow all the guff the banks pump out, we really deserve to get ridden sideways by the banks.

markodaly

simongurnick wrote: »

or the UDA? You left them out.

I asked before for proof of this before and was told to just go on Twitter.
I call bull**** to the UDA/Loyalist link.

Bonzo Delaney

So what happens now what's the banks next move ?obviously the bailiffs goon squad was their last resort they just weren't counting on the evectie or sympathisers of his hiring a more viscious goon squad in retalation.
Surely the bailiffs aren't just going to back away now especially with such media attention focused on the case. What message does that send out .

cameramonkey

pablo128 wrote: »

What would happen if someone dared to buy this farm? Could you give me a few examples?

HaHa, you are funny.

pablo128

cameramonkey wrote: »

HaHa, you are funny.

Why thank you.

Have you worked out what I was referring to in those 2 posts the last time, or will you let on you have no idea what I'm talking about again?

cameramonkey

pablo128 wrote: »

It was the banks' bedroom, not the late mother's or anyone else. They had plenty of notice to pack everything up but chose not to.

What are the banks going to do with the property? I can guess who is going to end up there in the end one way or another.


The bank have lost this war, maybe they should just withdraw before they make it worse.

Spanish Eyes

Again, most banks have sold off their NPLs to debt collectors like Cabot. The banks have to conform to EU rules on NPLs or something.

I am very sorry, but I have no time for people who have not made any effort to pay their debts for years but still have a place to live in rent/repayment free.

Mad_maxx

Drifter50 wrote: »

Bank may own the property now but it is never going to be sold in the future. This fiasco will stay with this property forever and no-one will buy it and if anyone does try to buy it, see what happens.

Seriously, there is extraordinary naievety being shown in some of the posts here. At the end of the day, the history of land being stolen, taken etc by British and foreign landlords goes away back in the west of Ireland.

If it was`nt so serious an issue, the stuff flying about on the Whats App trails down here show what the local people really think although its thinly veiled behind a "jokey" sort of description. " Hard border west of the Shannon from Athlone to Carrick" and " LVF out of Roscommon " etc etc

Poor decision making by KBC tho. It was clearly a non Irish approach to an Irish problem caused the issue. No-one thinking clearly and locally would employ this Craigavon bunch to collect a debt in the most Republican area of Leitrim / Roscommon. You only need to scratch the surface to see the underlying issues here and when you mix a bank into it, you might as well throw petrol on a chemical bonfire

"most republican area of roscommon"

It's not North monaghan we are talking about here.

pablo128

cameramonkey wrote: »

What are the banks going to do with the property? I can guess who is going to end up there in the end one way or another.


The bank have lost this war, maybe they should just withdraw before they make it worse.

Do you want to know what I genuinely think? I'd say your man has a few quid salted away and when it comes to the crunch he will pay.

I'm my opinion, and I don't know the man, is that he is that pig headed that he purposely left it to the last minute even if it costs him more in the end.

fryup

cameramonkey wrote: »

The bank have lost this war, maybe they should just withdraw before they make it worse.

they lost the battle not the war,

no fan of the banks but i back KBC to the hilt in this case

nullzero

markodaly wrote: »

I asked before for proof of this before and was told to just go on Twitter.
I call bull**** to the UDA/Loyalist link.

One of the security personnel identified himself as British in Northern Irish accent, so that would make him a loyalist as for his being affiliated to the UDA that's really supposition.

https://youtu.be/jOvMEVlQhIQ (skip to 3.10 for the "British" part).

What gets me about these "security guards" is that they are clearly not displaying PSA licenses (which carries a fine of between €1500 - €3000).
Why do we bother having a regulated security industry when personnel from other countries can just waltz into Ireland and do whatever they please?

Whatever their perceived political affiliations they shouldn't be operating in this country.

368100

simongurnick wrote: »

I'm not talking about it as defence for the borrower. I'm talking about from the standpoint that KBC is a poorly run bank that does not effectivelly manage its loan portfolio,

What evidence have you got to state that?

pablo128

nullzero wrote: »

One of the security personnel identified himself as British in Northern Irish accent, so that would make him a loyalist as for his being affiliated to the UDA that's really supposition.

What gets me about these "security guards" is that they are clearly not displaying PSA licenses (which carries a fine of between €1500 - €3000).
Why do we bother having a regulated security industry when personnel from other countries can just waltz into Ireland and do whatever they please?

Whatever their perceived political affiliations they shouldn't be operating in this country.

You don't need to be licenced to carry out an eviction. This has already been established.

the_syco

cameramonkey wrote: »

The bank have lost this war, maybe they should just withdraw before they make it worse.

They lose future evictions by withdrawing.
They gain an asset by evicting them.

nullzero

pablo128 wrote: »

You don't need to be licenced to carry out an eviction. This has already been established.

Well they're being described as security guards not bailiffs, I've not read the entire thread so am open to correction, but a security guard is by definition required to be licensed.

fullstop

Billcarson wrote: »

Well for starters not getting thugs down from the north. Surely the bank could have come to some agreement. Im not condoning people not paying debt. Me and my wife work to to pay debts etc as most people do.

Yeah what a bunch of pricks the banks are, he only had 9 years to know this was coming down the tracks. But it’s grand, he offered to pay €1000 per month at the last minute, sure the debt would be cleared in 40 or 50 years. Then he could start paying of the €400k he probably still owes the revenue.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/roscommon-eviction-kbc-seeking-debt-repayment-since-2009-1.3736042%3fmode=amp

cameramonkey

pablo128 wrote: »

Why thank you.

Have you worked out what I was referring to in those 2 posts the last time, or will you let on you have no idea what I'm talking about again?

Well it seems that since you misrepresented what was said in those two posts you are now trying to get a poster to justify that error and in some way exonerate you.


I would have ask a physiologist to really understand what is going there.

pablo128

nullzero wrote: »

Well they're being described as security guards not bailiffs, I've not read the entire thread so am open to correction, but a security guard is by definition required to be licensed.

Yes, a security guard needs to be licenced and resident in the state he is working in. You don't need to be licenced or resident here to carry out an eviction however. There are plans to change this, but that's how it is at the moment.

HamSarris

This was a stunning victory for the Roscommon rebels over the British loyalists. Despite inferior weaponry, the rebels caught the Shankhill regiment in a classic pincer movement forcing a retreat. At the sight of their fallen comrades, the morale of the Grand Orange infantry collapsed, leaving their canons to be captured by the rebels.

Lord Varadkar had now called on his Landlord nobles to join forces and ruthlessly quell the peasant uprising. However, there is whispers that Ming the Merciless will return from his conquests in Gaul, lead a direct attack on the Pale and force Lord Varadkar to fight on two fronts.

Spanish Eyes

Do you not all realise that practically every bank with NPLs have sold them off now and have no interest in the methods used to retrieve payment?

KBC is one, there are many others who have sold off their NPL book to debt collectors.

Blame the debt collectors first.

Either way I have absolutely no time for defaulters such as these people. half a mill to Revenue, debts to the local quarry and the pub, and obviously a huge debt to the bank that is now in the hands of debt collectors.

Sorry now, proper order. There are many who have pushed themselves to the limit to keep their modest homes. But these people?

Sometimes only a bit of a fright will work, because they are so arrogant and self righteous.

Wheeliebin30

This just highlights all these peopke going on about people in mortgage distress etc is pure bs.

People who can well afford to pay are choosing not too.

Why not?

Ten years mortgage free, **** me.

cameramonkey

fryup wrote: »

they lost the battle not the war,

no fan of the banks but i back KBC to the hilt in this case

You may back them to the hilt but KBC will not be able to sell this place to anyone but the farmer in question. I have been to auctions where there are disputes about farms, they don't go well. In this case with all the publicity they may as well give it back to the family it will save them plenty of time and money.

pablo128

cameramonkey wrote: »

Well it seems that since you misrepresented what was said in those two posts you are now trying to get a poster to justify that error and in some way exonerate you.


I would have ask a physiologist to really understand what is going there.

When all else fails, just insult someone. Good man yourself.

padd b1975

cameramonkey wrote: »

What are the banks going to do with the property? I can guess who is going to end up there in the end one way or another.

I hope they turn it into a halting site just to spite all the local gombeens.

martingriff

Do you know what will happen if KBC think no matter what we can't evict people they will just pull out of the market and sell all there mortgage portfolio to the biggest bid

cameramonkey

the_syco wrote: »

They lose future evictions by withdrawing.
They gain an asset by evicting them.

It cost to evict, the asset will be impossible to sell, so worthless.


They should cut their losses and give it back, game over.

markodaly

greenpilot wrote: »

Firstly, KBC bank handled this incident completely inappropriately using heavy handed techniques in removing the family and it is clear to most that there are other avenues which could have been explored with regard to the debts. In that regard, it's all about optics, and they got theirs completely wrong.

First of all, it was not KBC who handled this issue. The loan was sold on and it was the Sheriff who organised the security.

Secondly, what other avenue was there? The loans go back to 2004, thats 14/15 years ago. Apparently, nothing has been paid off those loans.
Should he be given another 15 years before he starts to pay anything back?
It's clear that we are dealing with a chancer and the banks were at the end of the road in regards dealing with him.

JCJCJC

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

As per tradition, when someone within the family dies, their bedroom is locked and the key hidden. When the McGann’s returned to the home, the door to the siblings’ late mother’s bedroom, which had been locked since 2015, had been smashed open.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/roscommon-siblings-home-traumatized-after-violent-eviction




I never heard of this tradition. Half the houses in the country must be empty.

Oh Jesus, you don’t believe what you read in IrishCentral, do you? It’s a wonder they didn’t say her mummified remains were eaten straight out of the bed by the security men.

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

It cost to evict, the asset will be impossible to sell, so worthless.


They should cut their losses and give it back, game over.

Why would it be impossible to sell?

cameramonkey

pablo128 wrote: »

When all else fails, just insult someone. Good man yourself.

There is no insult intended , it was just an observation. i am sorry if it hurt your feelings.

See its easy to say sorry.

nullzero

pablo128 wrote: »

Yes, a security guard needs to be licenced and resident in the state he is working in. You don't need to be licenced or resident here to carry out an eviction however. There are plans to change this, but that's how it is at the moment.

I don't know what you mean by "the state he is working in" as the PSA applies to Ireland only.
I've had a look and you are correct there is a loophole and it boggles the mind that a person can't install a cctv camera without a licence but we let this type of thing slip through the cracks.
I wouldn't usually be backing a SF proposal on anything but I see they are looking for the loophole to be closed and rightly so.
If a scrawny asisn guy can't sit at a reception desk wearing a security uniform without a licence around his neck why why should a bunch of burly men from another country be allowed to force people to the ground in a group (this pushes the bounds of reasonable force and demonstrates a lack of ability on the part of these men to carry out their duties correctly, most likely due to a lack of training).
Anyway, it boggles the mind but hopefully this loophole gets closed off and this type of thing doesn't happen again.

cameramonkey

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would it be impossible to sell?

Who would buy it?

markodaly

nullzero wrote: »

One of the security personnel identified himself as British in Northern Irish accent, so that would make him a loyalist as for his being affiliated to the UDA that's really supposition.

Seriously? Is that it? A man with an accent makes him a member of the UDA?
Christ, does that make every Irish man with an accent in Britain a member of the IRA.

What bigoted racist crap is that!

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

Who would buy it?

Plenty of people would buy it.
I know lots of people who have bought repossessed properties.
Don't see any issues?

Steer55

if the price is right they will always be a buyer

Spanish Eyes

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would it be impossible to sell?

Exactly. Someone bought that Jessbrook Centre (Gilligan funded) didn't they? No one could believe it would happen at the time, and many a CAB property has also been bought since.

If there is any trouble, the focus would be on the locals IMV. Shame on them supporting a defaulter for many debts. Sad really. Those who try to pay and keep their homes are actually looked after if the court reports are anything to go by. But these people?

martingriff

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would it be impossible to sell?

The "This is my Land" mentality of The Field apparently

nullzero

markodaly wrote: »

Seriously? Is that it? A man with an accent makes him a member of the UDA?
Christ, does that make every Irish man with an accent in Britain a member of the IRA.

What bigoted racist crap is that!

Did you bother to read the post you quoted?
I said he was clearly a loyalist and I then said assuming that makes him a member of the UDA is supposition. I don't think he necessarily is a UDA member, maybe he is, maybe he doesn't like jaffa cakes, I can't say.

the_syco

cameramonkey wrote: »

It cost to evict, the asset will be impossible to sell, so worthless.


They should cut their losses and give it back, game over.

The show of force will help others decide to leave when the Courts tell them to do so.

markodaly

nullzero wrote: »

Did you bother to read the post you quoted?
I said he was clearly a loyalist and I then said assuming that makes him a member of the UDA is supposition. I don't think he necessarily is a UDA member, maybe he is, maybe he doesn't like jaffa cakes, I can't say.

He was clearly a member of the UDA or a loyalist because he had an accent......

I guess all those guys with brown skin and funny beards are all members of ISIS.
Look at the crap you are posting.

Omackeral

markodaly wrote: »

I asked before for proof of this before and was told to just go on Twitter.
I call bull**** to the UDA/Loyalist link.

It's literally been thousands upon thousands of posts at this stage and it's now just become the narrative. It honestly has. It's hardly even challenged such is its ubiquity. If you question it, you're a unionist sympathiser. I've seen it stated that the man in charge of the security firm had previous links to a loyalist group. How that automatically makes every single person working for the company a paramilitary terrorist is beyond me but that's the style of debate these days. It's sad.

pablo128

nullzero wrote: »

I don't know what you mean by "the state he is working in" as the PSA applies to Ireland only.
I've had a look and you are correct there is a loophole and it boggles the mind that a person can't install a cctv camera without a licence but we let this type of thing slip through the cracks.
I wouldn't usually be backing a SF proposal on anything but I see they are looking for the loophole to be closed and rightly so.
If a scrawny asisn guy can't sit at a reception desk wearing a security uniform without a licence around his neck why why should a bunch of burly men from another country be allowed to force people to the ground in a group (this pushes the bounds of reasonable force and demonstrates a lack of ability on the part of these men to carry out their duties correctly, most likely due to a lack of training).
Anyway, it boggles the mind but hopefully this loophole gets closed off and this type of thing doesn't happen again.

What I mean by resident is that a PSA holder has to reside in the republic of Ireland, while those holding the northern equivalent of the PSA have to reside in the north. Neither can work in the other jurisdiction as a security guard.

I'm not disagreeing with you that people carrying out evictions should be licenced, by the way. It should have been sorted long ago. However, for now that's how it is.