Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

twowheelsonly

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

As long as the UK is still part of the EU, they have to award the contract to the cheapest consortium, regardless of which member state they are from.

Not true. Any EU based companies can apply for cotracts in any other EU State but there's no obligation to award the contract to the cheapest tender.

Sean.3516

joe swanson wrote: »

The amount of people (scum) on social media promoting and encouraging this is disgusting. What is so hard to understand that if you don't pay your mortgage or loan this is what happens. Being evicted does not condone attempted murder. Scumbags

Totally agree. A disgrace that this sort of “oo aa up the ra” infantile gob****tery can prevail over respect for law and order.

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

This is the sort of thing that could lead to Irexit

Yep. Shut off access Irish companies have to operate and tender for business in 26 other countries. Bloody foreigners.........

the_syco

twowheelsonly wrote: »

They cannot instigate the use of force and just grab random people and throw them out. That applies whether it's in a nightclub in Limerick or Dublin or a farm in Strokestown. A High Court order does not mean that they can ignore the laws of the land.

They were to evict people from a house. To evict, you have to physically move them. How would asking nicely achieve this? The bank already got the courts to tell them to leave, but they didn't.

blueythebear

twowheelsonly wrote: »

They can execute a Debtors warrant. They can also assist with a Distress Order. Why did the bank not go down this route ?

Because a Debtors Warrant is a very different thing... that only applies after getting a judgment against the homeowner and they fail to pay on an installment order. This process takes years and is largely ineffective. Order for possession allows you to retake the security and sell it to repay the debt.

The Distress Order is nothing to do with this. It applies to a breach of bail conditions.

Omackeral

h2005 wrote: »

The Irish tax payer didn’t bail out KBC. So unless you pay your taxes in Belgium that post is total rubbish.

Ah don't let that stop everyone blaming de bankers. I reckon a lot of people who say that don't even know what they're referencing to be honest.

JCJCJC

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Not true. Any EU based companies can apply for cotracts in any other EU State but there's no obligation to award the contract to the cheapest tender.

That only applies to Government contracts, and it's not the lowest/cheapest, its the most economically advantageous.

0cp71eyxkb94qf

joe swanson wrote: »

The amount of people (scum) on social media promoting and encouraging this is disgusting. What is so hard to understand that if you don't pay your mortgage or loan this is what happens. Being evicted does not condone attempted murder. Scumbags

Course not. Being evicted violently by hired scum however...

JJayoo

From watching the video off the older guys being pinned to the ground and dragged around, although I don't condone violence, if it was my dad being thrown around and if I knew the guys were in the house I would want to fcuk them up.

Hard to be rational when sh1t gets personal

twowheelsonly

blueythebear wrote: »

Because a Debtors Warrant is a very different thing... that only applies after getting a judgment against the homeowner and they fail to pay on an installment order. This process takes years and is largely ineffective. Order for possession allows you to retake the security and sell it to repay the debt.

The Distress Order is nothing to do with this. It applies to a breach of bail conditions.

In my (limited) experience I've found that a Debtors Order, and subsequent jailing, can be highly effective in focussing the mind and getting people to confront the issues at hand.

A distress order is not limited to breach of bail conditions and can be used to empower the Sheriff to seize goods 'to the value of.....'
Obviously this would usually only be effective in the case of smaller loans etc.

Omackeral

pablo128 wrote: »

If you could provide some evidence that those lads were loyalists that would be great.

P_1 wrote: »

he was somewhat round and had the sort of moustache you'd associate with a traditional DUP voter

There you have it in black and white.

enricoh

Sean.3516 wrote: »

If it is shown that these specific men have committed murder or some serious violent crime or that they were not licensed security then I’ll say they shouldn’t have been there. I don’t think you would care if they were former IRA or any other group of scumbags that agree with you politically

Uvf men n serious violent crime - say it aint so sean. Yeah i can just imagine former ira men evicting elderly farmers in roscommon.
What age did u say u were again?

bb12

sounds like there's a lot of bankers or people with pro-bank agendas on here for some reason.

the banks do not always follow the rules or recommendations when dealing with problem mortgages. there are countless stories in the media and on social media of people desperate to engage with banks to restructure only to be stone walled. sure just look at the tracker mortgage scandal...people actually lost their homes as a direct result of the banks sharp actions and nobody ever was really held accountable for this malpractice.

so i find it strange on this thread when some people seem to be advocating that banks are the good guys when all evidence supports that they themselves have behaved reprehensibly over the last 10 years.

anyhow here's an example of a farmer that got into difficulty with a farm loan and is still doing his best to save his farm but the banks and vulture funds refuse to engage with him
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/landowner-in-race-against-time-to-prevent-vulture-fund-selling-his-farm/

Omackeral

pablo128 wrote: »

Anyone else got any proof these lads were loyalists?

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any proof they weren't?

Checkmate.

Sean.3516

Where can I find the footage of the violent eviction?

Tommy Kelly

road_high wrote: »

Solidatory me hole. We already pay the highest interest rates in Europe thanks to the pussy footed manner evictions and non repayment of loans is handled here. Hows that for solidatory? So the rest of us already pay for these plonkers to sit in properties they can't afford/won't pay for.
The emotional guilt tripping is always rolled out in these instances of course but the truth is likely a lot different. (Flashbacks to famine evictions and so).
You're actually a perfect example of the do gooder culture pervading irish culture and it's always the middle that end up paying for it.

You're taxes are paying for the hotel accommodation of well over 3000 homeless people many of which are children at the moment.

Evictions aren't saving you jack****.

koheim

What other options did KBC have? This is a very good question as it is important for any bank to maintain a satisfactory repayment standard.

They can scare people, they can intimidate people, this time they actually used violence. They can negotiate, they can rearrange and restructure, they have so many options to them. Leaving people on the side of the road should not be one of them...

People should pay their mortgage or loans, there must be consequences for not engaging with Banks, but we are not in the dark ages, it is 2018

blueythebear

blueythebear wrote: »

I don't think that this whole scenario is very difficult to figure out...

i) the owners of the farm borrowed from the Bank and did not pay them back as per the contract
ii) the Bank brought the borrowers to court and got an order for possession
iii) the Sheriff obtained possession and several people had to be forcibly removed
iv) Security guards were put in place to protect the property
v) a bunch of people decided to retake the property despite the fact that it was subject to a court order.

It's simply a criminal act to do what the 70 strong mob did and the Gardai will have to arrest people for it. They should be charged with assault and locked up.

Nothing about this scenario has anything to do with Bank bailouts as KBC did not get bailed out by this State. It does not matter that the security guys were from the North. With the lunatic fringe heavily involved in anti eviction / anti bank rhetoric, no Irish security firm will do this work so there's no choice but to get guys in from elsewhere.

In the absence of the facts of this case, this post is worth repeating.

The 3 are referred to as being elderly, having lived in the house since it was built in the ‘50s.
A number of questions come to mind.
When did they borrow the money
How much was borrowed
How much was paid back and did they work with the bank or just ignore them.

A court order is usually a last resort.

Omackeral

end of the road wrote: »

however, when in general (forget about this particular bank) banks have not been seen to have been punished where they have been wreckless, then it's not surprising people will decide what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Change the word banks to Travellers and you'd be crying your eyes out.

Geuze

the_syco wrote: »

They were to evict people from a house. To evict, you have to physically move them. How would asking nicely achieve this? The bank already got the courts to tell them to leave, but they didn't.

There are very few repossessions in Ireland.

Years and years pass between first going into arrears and any repossession.

Borrowers would have had several chances to engage.

Repossessions are the last resort.

There is always more to these stories than is publicly available.

Lefty Bicek

enricoh wrote: »

Uvf men n serious violent crime - say it aint so sean. Yeah i can just imagine former ira men evicting elderly farmers in roscommon.
What age did u say u were again?

I think his birthday is in his username...

3/5/16

Two and a half, sounds about right.

blueythebear

twowheelsonly wrote: »

In my (limited) experience I've found that a Debtors Order, and subsequent jailing, can be highly effective in focussing the mind and getting people to confront the issues at hand.

A distress order is not limited to breach of bail conditions and can be used to empower the Sheriff to seize goods 'to the value of.....'
Obviously this would usually only be effective in the case of smaller loans etc.

The installment order process is ineffective, the reason being that if the person subject of the order cannot pay, the court can do nothing.

Guy:Incognito

koheim wrote: »

What other options did KBC have? This is a very good question as it is important for any bank to maintain a satisfactory repayment standard.

They can scare people, they can intimidate people, this time they actually used violence. They can negotiate, they can rearrange and restructure, they have so many options to them. Leaving people on the side of the road should not be one of them...

People should pay their mortgage or loans, there must be consequences for not engaging with Banks, but we are not in the dark ages, it is 2018

So what you're saying is the line that is repeated in ads and is on every mortgage contract about your home being at risk if you don't pay , should just be ignored ( only by the borrower of course).

Go apply for ho on a car and ask for the section about them taking the car if you don't pay to be removed and see how your application goes....

end of the road

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If people ****ed off out of property they haven't paid for of their own accord when the bank asked them, nevermind gathering up local vigilante scumbags, then nothing would be required.

yeah. yeah. we live in a world where what should happen, doesn't always do so. therefore stating the obvious is pointless given the discussion is around what should be done where something is required such as this case.

NIMAN

Social media and the news rarely tell you the full story.

We only hear the one they want us to hear.

mulbot

koheim wrote: »

What other options did KBC have? This is a very good question as it is important for any bank to maintain a satisfactory repayment standard.

They can scare people, they can intimidate people, this time they actually used violence. They can negotiate, they can rearrange and restructure, they have so many options to them. Leaving people on the side of the road should not be one of them...

People should pay their mortgage or loans, there must be consequences for not engaging with Banks, but we are not in the dark ages, it is 2018

So therefore it should not be necessary to carry out VIOLENT enforced evictions

Omackeral

Gringo180 wrote: »

Wait. What? Is this an Irish forum? Are you Irish? How on earth can you defend this, your a disgrace.

Check his moustache.

Sean.3516

enricoh wrote: »

Uvf men n serious violent crime - say it aint so sean. Yeah i can just imagine former ira men evicting elderly farmers in roscommon.
What age did u say u were again?

I’m talking about THESE SPECIFIC MEN. This isn’t the trial of the UVF. Are you saying no former IRA men work in private security.

Fann Linn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’m talking about THESE SPECIFIC MEN. This isn’t the trial of the UVF. Are you saying no former IRA men work in private security.

We'll know one way or another pretty soon. Their names and locations are being flung about on twitter and fb at the moment.

mulbot

NIMAN wrote: »

Social media and the news rarely tell you the full story.

We only hear the one they want us to hear.

Watch the eviction clip-Assaulting evictees tells you enough

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

yeah. yeah. we live in a world where what should happen, doesn't always do so. therefore stating the obvious is pointless given the discussion is around what should be done where something is required such as this case.

And you live in a fantasy land. But at least you admit the people were in the wrong and should be chucked out.


You really arnt worth bothering with. If I hadn't replied before I realised who I was replying to I'd have ditched it.

Omackeral

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

wouldn't it be a shame if our police force had to do some actual work outside fabricating speeding tickets and ruining whistleblowers' lives.

They do plenty of good work. Work that takes balls. Not everyone has the bottle to do the job. Easy to talk them down from behind a keyboard. Let me ask, do you face the threat of being slashed across the face every time you go to work? Do you have your family threatened?

Guy:Incognito

mulbot wrote: »

Watch the eviction clip-Assaulting evictees tells you enough

Does the clip show the people leaving the property promptly when the bank sent them notice and them getting jumped on out of the blue for no reason and assaulted? If not then what poi t is it trying to prove?

Omackeral

joe swanson wrote: »

The amount of people (scum) on social media promoting and encouraging this is disgusting. What is so hard to understand that if you don't pay your mortgage or loan this is what happens. Being evicted does not condone attempted murder. Scumbags

But it's the current year! Are you even Irish!?

mulbot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does the clip show the people,e leaving the property promptly when the bank sent them notice and them getting jumped on out of the blue for no reason and assaulted? If not then what poi t is it trying to prove?

It clearly shows "security personnel" outnumbering and assaulting members of the public,without any identification,under the direct sight of our Gardai- are you condoning this?

the_syco

Omackeral wrote: »

Check his moustache.

His moustache says that he's an ISIS Taliban rocking a AK-47 with an RPG in his man-bag... :pac:

Fann Linn wrote: »

We'll know one way or another pretty soon. Their names and locations are being flung about on twitter and fb at the moment.

If the anti-eviction group go up to harass them, they'll be coming back in body bags, if at all.

Sean.3516

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does the clip show the people leaving the property promptly when the bank sent them notice and them getting jumped on out of the blue for no reason and assaulted? If not then what poi t is it trying to prove?

Where can I find this clip

Sycamore Tree

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

Jesus somebody get me a piece of chalk...

I'm aware that the guards cant be used as security firms, however they can be used if someone is refusing to leave the house as instructed. Which is much better than getting a few jumped up scumbags to beat the evictees up. Now is that much clearer? Shall i draw you a picture to illustrate?

Also, wouldn't it be a shame if our police force had to do some actual work outside fabricating speeding tickets and ruining whistleblowers' lives.

They also fabricated over a million breathalyser tests...

Tommy Kelly

Omackeral wrote: »

They do plenty of good work. Work that takes balls. Not everyone has the bottle to do the job. Easy to talk them down from behind a keyboard. Let me ask, do you face the threat of being slashed across the face every time you go to work? Do you have your family threatened?

They as an organisation an absolute disgrace.

The future doesn't look to great either. I know 6 lads that's after getting accepted by the Guards and they are the nothing only little ****s, pure cowboys.

twowheelsonly

the_syco wrote: »

They were to evict people from a house. To evict, you have to physically move them. How would asking nicely achieve this? The bank already got the courts to tell them to leave, but they didn't.

Doesn't matter. Private individuals still can't break the law of the land in enforcing a Court Order.

I have a feeling that this case could turn out to be very interesting in legal terms and could potentially lead to changes in the laws regarding evictions. (With regard to use of security firms / gardai etc., )

BTW, I have no problem with evictions per se. It boils down to how they are conducted and the circumstances leading up to them. People that take the piss with their loans are fair game. There's a difference though between a fella that buys a big house, a big car and goes on holidays twice a year when he obviously can't afford it and, on the surface, a farming family that got out of their depth on a loan. I'd love to know the details in this case but regardless of that the handling of the whole thing has been shocking.

mgn

Funny how the media operates in this country.Not a word about these thugs evicting the farmers last week.Yet when the same thugs evicted a bunch of attention seeking wasters of students out of an empty building in Dublin a few weeks ago there was outrage in the media.On every paper and news bulletin for a week.

Guy:Incognito

mulbot wrote: »

It clearly shows "security personnel" outnumbering and assaulting members of the public,without any identification,under the direct sight of our Gardai- are you condoning this?

Does it show the build up? And the people peacefully leaving the property ? And the security attacking them for no reason?

Why didn't the people leave when told ? Well before anyone turned up to do the initial eviction?

Omackeral

end of the road wrote: »

yeah. yeah. we live in a world where what should happen, doesn't always do so. therefore stating the obvious is pointless given the discussion is around what should be done where something is required such as this case.

You're thanking posts supporting vigilantism. If similar was suggested against black scumbags in Balbriggan would you be of the same opinion? You'd be all about that Law and Order then wouldn't ya?

twowheelsonly

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Where can I find this clip

It was posted back along this thread somewhere.. (after page 11 is all I can remember..)

Fann Linn

the_syco wrote: »

His moustache says that he's an ISIS Taliban rocking a AK-47 with an RPG in his man-bag... :pac:


If the anti-eviction group go up to harass them, they'll be coming back in body bags, if at all.

They won't need to. If this crowd are seen to have any links with the UVF or loyalism in general its game, set and match. Can't see any TD in Dail Eireann condoning them coming down here.

Well maybe except those in FG!!!

Tommy Kelly

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it show the build up? And the people peacefully leaving the property ? And the security attacking them for no reason?

Why didn't the people leave when told ? Well before anyone turned up to do the initial eviction?

How do you know they were security? Did you see any ID numbers or names written on their clothing?

gandalf

Whilst I don't have any sympathy for the men that carried out the original eviction that attack this morning has set a very dangerous precedent and has shown that mob rule is accepted in this country.

These 70 thugs need to be hunted down and made an example of otherwise it will become open day for every twat in this country to take the law into their own hands.

In parallel there needs to be investigation into eviction methods and who is being used as sub contractors for these "services".

Sean.3516

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Private individuals still can't break the law of the land in enforcing a Court Order.

I have a feeling that this case could turn out to be very interesting in legal terms and could potentially lead to changes in the laws regarding evictions. (With regard to use of security firms / gardai etc., )

BTW, I have no problem with evictions per se. It boils down to how they are conducted and the circumstances leading up to them. People that take the piss with their loans are fair game. There's a difference though between a fella that buys a big house, a big car and goes on holidays twice a year when he obviously can't afford it and, on the surface, a farming family that got out of their depth on a loan. I'd love to know the details in this case but regardless of that the handling of the whole thing has been shocking.

There’s only one way to remove people from a house that have been ordered to leave, have no intention to leave. They were given every chance before force was used.

Omackeral

NIMAN wrote: »

Social media and the news rarely tell you the full story.

We only hear the one they want us to hear.

Has anywhere other than social media (and here, remember the moustache) actually shown any credible or legitimate links that these security people were UVF or paramilitaries? Or even Loyalists.

mulbot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it show the build up? And the people peacefully leaving the property ? And the security attacking them for no reason?

Why didn't the people leave when told ? Well before anyone turned up to do the initial eviction?

Why they didn't leave is their business. Are you condoning the use of force and assault by a private unidentified "security company" acting illegally on members of the Irish public?