Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

pablo128

Omackeral wrote: »

Has anywhere other than social media (and here, remember the moustache) actually shown any credible or legitimate links that these security people were UVF or paramilitaries? Or even Loyalists.

No but sure one of them said he's British so that's cast iron proof right there.

Tommy Kelly

Omackeral wrote: »

Has anywhere other than social media (and here, remember the moustache) actually shown any credible or legitimate links that these security people were UVF or paramilitaries? Or even Loyalists.

Nobody including you can prove or show any evidence that they were all even legit security men. You're asking for proof all evening why don't you prove what your saying?

All we know from the clips is they one lad was dressed in black from head to toe and british.

Omackeral

Fann Linn wrote: »

Their names and locations are being flung about on twitter and fb at the moment.

And we wonder why people are brought in from out of state. Remember the Gardai had to wear balaclavas for this reason. People are irresponsible idiots at the best of times.

rn

Roscommon is far from lawless.

How could kbc have handled this better? It's unlikely they could. Large organisations tend not have any actual sense for the "human" story behind the numbers and it's the numbers that count.

pablo128

Deleted User wrote: »

In the absence of the facts of this case, this post is worth repeating.

The 3 are referred to as being elderly, having lived in the house since it was built in the ‘50s.
A number of questions come to mind.
When did they borrow the money
How much was borrowed
How much was paid back and did they work with the bank or just ignore them.

A court order is usually a last resort.

These people are constantly being referred to as elderly. 2 of them in their 50s and one early 60s. I wouldn't describe someone in their 50s as elderly personally.

Fann Linn

Omackeral wrote: »

And we wonder why people are brought in from out of state. Remember the Gardai had to wear balaclavas for this reason. People are irresponsible idiots at the best of times.

It's their neighbours in east Belfast that's identifying them😉

Guy:Incognito

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

How do you know they were security? Did you see any ID numbers or names written on their clothing?

I don't know anything about them. I havnt made any accusations or even guessed about who they are. Maybe I should just make up some names and say they are gaa players from cork to fit in?
I could hire someone to stand in my garden and mind the flowers. That makes them security. It's not exactly the same as being specific and claiming they are Gardai or SAS or the FBI.

JCJCJC

gctest50 wrote: »

I was more pointing out the "betrayed by their own " part :


MRBB (part of the Flemish farmers' association) controls around 11%,

Laying aside the fact that 11% gives you control of bugger-all, are you seriously suggesting that a Dutch Bank with a Flemish minority shareholding should not collect its lawful debts in a Ireland from farmers, just because they’re farmers?

JJayoo

I like how they did an official headcount to count the 70 guys who showed up, I mean if your gonna fabricate a number for dramatic effect why not go for 100.

Also the security guys getting attacked had nothing to do with the banks or courts it happened because videos circulated on social media of the security guards throwing around a number of old men.

If the initial interaction between the security guards and the residents/neighbors had been uneventful then there would not have been an attack.

Omackeral

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

They as an organisation an absolute disgrace.

Top brass might be rotten. Doesn't mean the rank and file men and women who serve aren't doing a tough job. It's thankless and can be very dangerous and plenty wouldn't be cut out for it. I don't think it's fair to say all they do is fabricate speeding tickets.

Guy:Incognito

pablo128 wrote: »

These people are constantly being referred to as elderly. 2 of them in their 50s and one early 60s. I wouldn't describe someone in their 50s as elderly personally.

Everyone is either elderly or disabled when supporters are trying to get sympathy,

P_1

Sean.3516 wrote: »

There’s only one way to remove people from a house that have been ordered to leave, have no intention to leave. They were given every chance before force was used.

When you have a 4 v 1 advantage you can easily remove someone without resorting to beating them blue. Ask any competent bouncer and you'll tell you exactly how to do it

Omackeral

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

Nobody including you can prove or show any evidence that they were all even legit security men. You're asking for proof all evening why don't you prove what your saying?

Right fair enough. These contracted people doing the removal then.

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

All we know from the clips is they one lad was dressed in black from head to toe and british.

Any proof they're Loyalist Paras or UVF?

Malcolm Tasty Salamander

Malcolm Tasty Salamander wrote: »

Jesus somebody get me a piece of chalk...

I'm aware that the guards cant be used as security firms, however they can be used if someone is refusing to leave the house as instructed.


Also, wouldn't it be a shame if our police force had to do some actual work outside fabricating speeding tickets and ruining whistleblowers' lives.

No they can't. Get your facts straight.
Gardai do not nor should they ever enforce civil law.
Wasn't long till your true feelings on Gardai came out though......

mulbot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I don't know anything about them. I havnt made any accusations or even guessed about who they are. Maybe I should just make up some names and say they are gaa players from cork to fit in?
I could hire someone to stand in my garden and mind the flowers. That makes them security. It's not exactly the same as being specific and claiming they are Gardai or SAS or the FBI.

Yes you did
"Does it show the build up? And the people peacefully leaving the property ? And the security attacking them for no reason?

Why didn't the people leave when told ? Well before anyone turned up to do the initial eviction?"

Guy:Incognito

JJayoo wrote: »

I

Also the security guys getting attacked had nothing to do with the banks or courts it happened because videos circulated on social media of the security guards throwing around a number of old men.
t.

Considering only 3 people lived on the land, not all of whom were men, why were "a number of old men" involving themselves with the security?

mulbot

bubblypop wrote: »

No they can't. Get your facts straight.
Gardai do not nor should they ever enforce civil law.
Wasn't long till your true feelings on Gardai came out though......

What about the Gardai watching an assault taking place?

Mrsmum

Any farmer I know, especially if farm was in family for generations would actually need counsellors to help them deal with the trauma of leaving their home and land. I wouldn't like to be evicted from my house now but it's a different thing as it's only bricks and mortar rather than my family's blood, sweat and tears. What do we know of how the bank worked with them. Like did they demand full payments rather than what was possible to repay.

JJayoo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Everyone is either elderly or disabled when supporters are trying to get sympathy,

Let's say you see a video of your dad being pinned to the floor by a number of guys and being dragged around.

I take it you wouldn't care and tell your dad to cop on?

Omackeral

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Everyone is either elderly or disabled when supporters are trying to get sympathy,

And it's always a disgrace and the country's always a joke.

Sean.3516

P_1 wrote: »

When you have a 4 v 1 advantage you can easily remove someone without resorting to beating them blue. Ask any competent bouncer and you'll tell you exactly how to do it

They were most certainly not beat blue. I’ve watched the video, a group of men physically restrained the men who were refusing to leave the property and removed them. No beating took place. The guy on the ground at the start of the video isn’t beaten and we can’t see what led to him being on the ground. Where is the proof of violence?

Tommy Kelly

Omackeral wrote: »

Top brass might be rotten. Doesn't mean the rank and file men and women who serve aren't doing a tough job. It's thankless and can be very dangerous and plenty wouldn't be cut out for it. I don't think it's fair to say all they do is fabricate speeding tickets.

It's a cushy enough number in fairness. They can and do pick and choose when they want to apply the law and to whom. Dangerous enough outfit too when they get snared for fabricating speeding tickets etc.

Look at that clip of the eviction, 3 or 4 of them looking on at an elderly man getting dragged around the place. Why were they even there ffs?

Guy:Incognito

mulbot wrote: »

Yes you did
"Does it show the build up? And the people peacefully leaving the property ? And the security attacking them for no reason?

Why didn't the people leave when told ? Well before anyone turned up to do the initial eviction?"

I used security as a generic term for people hired to perform security. I even explained it in the post you quoted. What should I have said ?

Security can be anyone hired to look after anything ..

Guessing who they are would be naming them or claiming they are uvf. Would calling themmen have meant I was guessing who they were? Should I amend the post to read "non gender defined possible humanoids"?

Fann Linn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

They were most certainly not beat blue. I’ve watched the video, a group of men physically restrained the men who were refusing to leave the property and removed them. No beating took place. The guy on the ground at the start of the video isn’t beaten and we can’t see what led to him being on the ground. Where is the proof of violence?

Wasn't he only released from hospital tonight?

pablo128

mulbot wrote: »

What about the Gardai watching an assault taking place?

Absolutely. I saw one of the security Men In Black with a bloodied nose in the video. Guards did nothing. Terrible, I tell ya!

boetstark

Fann Linn wrote: »

It's good to see Loyalist scum get a hammering. Long may it continue.

Was the dog a loyalist as well ??

ismat

mulbot wrote: »

Why they didn't leave is their business. Are you condoning the use of force and assault by a private unidentified "security company" acting illegally on members of the Irish public?

There was a court order telling them to leave. If they don’t obey it they are in breach of same so it is not their business. It’s not their property anymore once the court makes the order against them. If the security contractors asked them to leave and they refused what are they meant to do ? There is too many cute hoors in this country that think they can get away with paying nothing and stick everyone else with the bill.

mulbot

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I used security as a generic term for people hired to perform security. I even explained it in the post you quoted. What should I have said ?

Security can be anyone hired to look after anything ..

Not in a professional sense-There are quite a few requirements needed to work in professional security.

Tommy Kelly

pablo128 wrote: »

Absolutely. I saw one of the security Men In Black with a bloodied nose in the video. Guards did nothing. Terrible, I tell ya!

That lad fell an hit his nose off the pillar when he was dragging the ex garda out the gate like a sack of spuds.

Are you saying he got a smack or what? Any proof?

Fann Linn

boetstark wrote: »

Was the dog a loyalist as well ??

Probably the same breed as the one the garda shot last week!

end of the road

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And you live in a fantasy land.

no i don't.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But at least you admit the people were in the wrong and should be chucked out.

i don't admit it because i don't know for sure. i suspect it but i don't know.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You really arnt worth bothering with. If I hadn't replied before I realised who I was replying to I'd have ditched it.

resorting to attacks, the last throw of the dice when one hasn't an argument.

Sean.3516 wrote: »

There’s only one way to remove people from a house that have been ordered to leave, have no intention to leave. They were given every chance before force was used.

if it was the gardai using the force, then yes as they are the legitimate enforcers of the state. given it wasn't, then it's ultimately irrelevant what the 3 people did or didn't do, the security were fully in the wrong.

Arthur Daley

When farmers made out like bandits by selling land for overpriced housing developments throughout the 90s, 2000s and still today in some cases, they were allowed to hold on to their gains, it belonged to them as any other form of property.

Now the boot is on the other foot, and the rule of law mustn't apply, the Bank is 'not allowed' to possess their own property. Incredibly, not one politician anywhere dare speak up for the rule of law on this issue. Double standards eh? Mob rule it looks like to be honest.

Sean.3516

Fann Linn wrote: »

Wasn't he only released from hospital tonight?

What were his injuries? And if he was violently resisting, why can’t the private security guys defend themselves.

nullzero

mulbot wrote: »

Not in a professional sense-There are quite a few requirements needed to work in professional security.

A PSA license and a pulse is about the extent of it. Competence of individual officers for a specific assignment is down to the employer.

mulbot

ismat wrote: »

There was a court order telling them to leave. If they don’t obey it they are in breach of same so it is not their business. It’s not their property anymore once the court makes the order against them. If the security contractors asked them to leave and they refused what are they meant to do ? There is too many cute hoors in this country that think they can get away with paying nothing and stick everyone else with the bill.

I understand he eviction part-You cannot assault members of the public however in carrying out security duties.

JCJCJC

Mrsmum wrote: »

Any farmer I know, especially if farm was in family for generations would actually need counsellors to help them deal with the trauma of leaving their home and land. I wouldn't like to be evicted from my house now but it's a different thing as it's only bricks and mortar rather than my family's blood, sweat and tears. What do we know of how the bank worked with them. Like did they demand full payments rather than what was possible to repay.

It was said here earlier that the loan was used to expand the farm, so they’re only recently on part of it. It could have been somebody else’s since the time of Fiona McCool before that but so what. How unreasonable is it for the bank to expect full repayments? If you put ten grand on deposit in a bank, would you be happy to get three grand back and go whistle for the rest of it?

Fann Linn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What were his injuries? And if he was violently resisting, why can’t the private security guys defend themselves.

I don't know I'm not a doctor.

Guy:Incognito

JJayoo wrote: »

Let's say you see a video of your dad being pinned to the floor by a number of guys and being dragged around.

I take it you wouldn't care and tell your dad to cop on?

If he somehow rose from the grave I'd reach for the nearest shotgun to put him down myself. Itd be even more worrying considering he was cremated.

Anyway I see we've now moved from "poor old people" to more emotive **** of " your dad".


How long should your dad be let occupy a house he didn't pay for ?should the bank have to leave him there till he dies? If he's no ones dad can he be chucked out?

Sean.3516

Fann Linn wrote: »

I don't know I'm not a doctor.

Just asking because the details do matter. Any injury doesn’t constitute a “beating”

boetstark

keavebm wrote: »

Watched the videos ****in scandalous wat their doing. They were old people in there seventies. Scumbags and thugs them and the banks. We bailed out the ****in banks and this is what we get

Didn't bail out KBC. What would you suggest if somebody owed you money and wouldn't/ couldn't repay.

Fann Linn

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Just asking because the details do matter. Any injury doesn’t constitute a “beating”

No. But some big lump sitting on you wouldn't help. There was 8 of them against 2 men and a woman.

Sean.3516

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

Omackeral

Tommy Kelly I responded to the question you posed to me, care to respond to mine?

Omackeral wrote: »

Any proof they're Loyalist Paras or UVF?

JJayoo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If he somehow rose from the grave I'd reach for the nearest shotgun to put him down myself. Itd be even more worrying considering he was cremated.

Anyway I see we've now moved from "poor old people" to more emotive **** of " your dad".


How long should your dad be let occupy a house he didn't pay for ?should the bank have to leave him there till he dies? If he's no ones dad can he be chucked out?

No I asked you a direct question and you avoided answering it, no problem thankfully boards has an ignore function

Omackeral

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

tHeY WeReN't ReAl SeCuRiTy MeN

(Good way to avoid your question)

Guy:Incognito

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

Are you saying he got a smack or what? Any proof?

Hardly in a position to be demanding proof of anything now are you?
No proof would be looked for if someone said he got a bloody nose headbutting a defenceless pensioner in a wheelchair on their way to mass.

Sean.3516

Fann Linn wrote: »

No. But some big lump sitting on you wouldn't help. There was 8 of them against 2 men and a woman.

Sitting on someone is one way to keep someone the ground who’s determined to fight you. The fault is with the farmer who started it by resisting.

As regards numbers, your point being what? A greater numerical advantage decreases the chance of resistance and the chance of them being injured themselves. What’s so sinister about that?

the_syco

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I have a feeling that this case could turn out to be very interesting in legal terms and could potentially lead to changes in the laws regarding evictions. (With regard to use of security firms / gardai etc., )

The video that I've seen is low res, but I'm wondering if the person being wrestled to the ground at the gate was even one of the people being evicted, or a neighbour?

twowheelsonly wrote: »

on the surface, a farming family that got out of their depth on a loan. I'd love to know the details in this case but regardless of that the handling of the whole thing has been shocking.

I'd assume they expanded before the price of milk tanked, with the price of milk being a reason of how they intended to pay back their loan.

mulbot wrote: »

Why they didn't leave is their business. Are you condoning the use of force and assault by a private unidentified "security company" acting illegally on members of the Irish public?

But they acted legally evicting the people.

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

Are you saying he got a smack or what? Any proof?

Is there any proof that any of those getting evicted got assaulted?

mulbot wrote: »

I understand he eviction part-You cannot assault members of the public however in carrying out security duties.

They can defend themselves. As seen this morning, the neighbours have no regard for the law.

h2005

Fann Linn wrote: »

No. But some big lump sitting on you wouldn't help. There was 8 of them against 2 men and a woman.

It wouldn’t make much sense to try and do an eviction if you were outnumbered

ismat

mulbot wrote: »

I understand he eviction part-You cannot assault members of the public however in carrying out security duties.

If they refuse to leave then what do you do ? Tbf the guards were there and didn’t see anything wrong with what the security guys did (from the reports ive seen). You would need a hardy crew of guys going on to repossess if you were expecting the response that came. We are going down s dangerous road if you can’t execute a court order due to being in fear of a gang of local thugs