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Can a job do this

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  • 16-12-2018 5:56pm
    #1
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭


    Can a job delete footage regarding an incident
    Before you get to see it
    And sack you


«13

Comments

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    #2
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Your post is very unclear.

    If the footage is theirs they can delete it.

    If you are there less than a year they can sack you at any time for any reason. If not they have to follow a disciplinary procedure unless you have broken the law.


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    #3
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    GarIT wrote: »
    Your post is very unclear.

    If the footage is theirs they can delete it.

    If you are there less than a year they can sack you at any time for any reason. If not they have to follow a disciplinary procedure unless you have broken the law.

    Yes the footage is from the cctv in factory
    I am there over 5 years
    We requested to see the footage for the whole investigation.
    After they sacked me on my appeal they showedme footage taken of a monitor screen
    Taken on a mobile phone which
    Only shows after the incident. But the part to prove me correct is gone


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    #4
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    Yes the footage is from the cctv in factory
    I am there over 5 years
    We requested to see the footage for the whole investigation.
    After they sacked me on my appeal they showedme footage taken of a monitor screen
    Taken on a mobile phone which
    Only shows after the incident. But the part to prove me correct is gone

    It appears they have followed the correct procedure. If you feel is was unjust you need to contact a solicitor who can advise you.


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    #5
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    GarIT wrote: »
    It appears they have followed the correct procedure. If you feel is was unjust you need to contact a solicitor who can advise you.
    Is the correct procedure to not show me the footage to sack me on .
    And can they delete before appeal is still going on
    They can sack me but not show me evidence


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    #6
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    Is the correct procedure to not show me the footage to sack me on .
    And can they delete before appeal is still going on
    They can sack me but not show me evidence

    If you think you have been unfairly dismissed then you should go to your local Citizens Information Centre and ask them to help you to make a complaint to the WRC. You have nothing to lose and it doesn’t cost you anything. Just know that if they decide to respond to your complaint they probably will employ a solicitor and barrister who will be very hard on your testimony and evidence.
    But that should be your first move. Go in the CIC and talk to someone.


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    #7
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Why would you go to CIC, would it not be better to go direct to NERA?

    But I think part of the question the op maybe asking is, can the company use partial cctv evidence to sack him, while at the same time removing and deleting part of this evidence they relied upon themselves.

    I don't know the answer but seems suspect.


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    #8
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,800 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Is the cctv even admissable, ie were the correct procedures followed?


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    #9
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    GarIT wrote: »
    It appears they have followed the correct procedure. If you feel is was unjust you need to contact a solicitor who can advise you.

    It appears they didn't from what the OP says. That said, there's nothing they can do about it.


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    #10
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Patww79 wrote: »
    It appears they didn't from what the OP says. That said, there's nothing they can do about it.

    I meant disciplinary procedure rather than the cctv footage. OP mentioned an appeal, so they have that end of it covered.


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    #11
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    GarIT wrote: »
    I meant disciplinary procedure rather than the cctv footage. OP mentioned an appeal, so they have that end of it covered.
    Also told no statements had be taken but they were produced them at disciplinary desicion meeting


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    #12
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,395 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    GarIT wrote: »
    It appears they have followed the correct procedure. If you feel is was unjust you need to contact a solicitor who can advise you.

    Surely if you request to see the incident for which you are being fired, you are entitled to see it?

    How is deleting their only evidence following any sort of correct procedure?


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    #13
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Surely if you request to see the incident for which you are being fired, you are entitled to see it?

    How is deleting their only evidence following any sort of correct procedure?
    Thats my point exactly


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    #14
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    You hit one of your colleagues?


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    #15
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Surely if you request to see the incident for which you are being fired, you are entitled to see it?

    How is deleting their only evidence following any sort of correct procedure?

    I replied to another similar comment above. I meant the steps they are required to take with disciplinary procedure.

    To answer your questions though.
    In some cases they may not even be permitted to show you the recording. That probably isn't the case here, but we don't know.

    People can be fired without video evidence, it may affect the company later on if they had to defend their decision in court but I can't think of anything that could compel them to keep the recording.

    OP also hasn't specified if they have a camera system that records over it's own footage, every 24-hours, 3 days, or week, or if somebody from the company actively went and deleted the video.


    It's not exactly the same but I had something similar happen to me in Maynooth University, I was assaulted by another student who had some sort of friendship with the head of security who deleted the footage and the advice I got at the time was they can do that if they want to. Until the Gardaí ask them to hold onto it they don't have a responsibility to.


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    #16
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    GarIT wrote: »
    I replied to another similar comment above. I meant the steps they are required to take with disciplinary procedure.

    To answer your questions though.
    In some cases they may not even be permitted to show you the recording. That probably isn't the case here, but we don't know.

    People can be fired without video evidence, it may affect the company later on if they had to defend their decision in court but I can't think of anything that could compel them to keep the recording.

    OP also hasn't specified if they have a camera system that records over it's own footage, every 24-hours, 3 days, or week, or if somebody from the company actively went and deleted the video.


    It's not exactly the same but I had something similar happen to me in Maynooth University, I was assaulted by another student who had some sort of friendship with the head of security who deleted the footage and the advice I got at the time was they can do that if they want to. Until the Gardaí ask them to hold onto it they don't have a responsibility to.
    Im cool with that but why show me anything
    The show me a recording of after the event
    But dont caputure what i say
    The recording only shows from clearly 10 mins after the event
    And is taken from mobile phone of the camera screen


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    #17
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    Im cool with that but why show me anything
    The show me a recording of after the event
    But dont caputure what i say
    The recording only shows from clearly 10 mins after the event
    And is taken from mobile phone of the camera screen

    That's something you really need a professional to help you with.

    As you said in the other thread maybe they didn't like you and did it on purpose if you really need an answer to why.


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    #18
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Why would you go to CIC, would it not be better to go direct to NERA?

    But I think part of the question the op maybe asking is, can the company use partial cctv evidence to sack him, while at the same time removing and deleting part of this evidence they relied upon themselves.

    I don't know the answer but seems suspect.

    NERA is WRC now. WRC is an office in Carlow. If you ring them or email them they will direct you to the ecomplaint form.
    If you google NERA you will be brought to the website of a solicitors firm where you will pay for advice.
    CIC is free and they will fill in the form with/for you.


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    #19
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭cml387


    You seem focused on a narrow point i.e the existence or not of CCTV evidence.

    If CCTV is the only evidence, and it now doesn't exist then I would suspect that you have a case.
    However if there are witnesses who will say you did what you did (and I'm not suggesting guilt or innocence here) then you may have a problem.


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    #20
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    cml387 wrote: »
    You seem focused on a narrow point i.e the existence or not of CCTV evidence.

    If CCTV is the only evidence, and it now doesn't exist then I would suspect that you have a case.
    However if there are witnesses who will say you did what you did (and I'm not suggesting guilt or innocence here) then you may have a problem.
    Hi They have a witness bit the cctv would show him to be lying
    Thats why they deleted it


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    #21
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    cml387 wrote: »
    You seem focused on a narrow point i.e the existence or not of CCTV evidence.

    If CCTV is the only evidence, and it now doesn't exist then I would suspect that you have a case.
    However if there are witnesses who will say you did what you did (and I'm not suggesting guilt or innocence here) then you may have a problem.

    It's not hard for a place to fabricate witnesses and if they're the type of place to edit video evidence then I wouldn't put it past them anyway. If I was the OP I wouldn't expend too much energy on it and focus on getting something else.


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    #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    .... But the part to prove me correct is gone

    Sounds very sus to me. If you are there 5yrs it would be worth taking it further.

    Deleting footage make them look guilty even if they are not.


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    #23
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Is there a union?

    Wrc is an option.

    Who did you have with you for meeting?


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    #24
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Procedure is very flawed.

    You've a right to see evidence.
    You've a right to see and contest witness statements.
    You've a right to face your accuser.
    You have a right to representation at all stages.

    Contact CIC as suggested or WRC yourself. It won't even get to court by the sounds of it, WRC will tear them a new one.

    https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/Complaints_Disputes/Refer_a_Dispute_Make_a_Complaint/


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    #25
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    dhaughton99 wrote: »
    You hit one of your colleagues?
    No i did not but they say i did but the tape would prove me right this is my issue


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    #26
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Is there a union?

    Wrc is an option.

    Who did you have with you for meeting?
    Yes Union is with me
    Next step is WRC
    I am waiting on the result of appeal now
    The appeal has new circumstances
    As video shown is recorded on phone
    But didnt record the bit to show my version
    But recorded from the origi al footage


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    #27
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    Yes Union is with me
    Next step is WRC
    I am waiting on the result of appeal now
    The appeal has new circumstances
    As video shown is recorded on phone
    But didnt record the bit to show my version

    Then how can you or they prove it wasn't tampered with.

    This can not be used it must be the original unmolested footage.

    Contact the data controller.

    You need to keep at the union


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    #28
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    beauf wrote: »
    Sounds very sus to me. If you are there 5yrs it would be worth taking it further.

    Deleting footage make them look guilty even if they are not.
    Yes deleteing footage is bad but making a recording of the footage to a phone but leaving out the critical part is even more sus
    Would you agree


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    #29
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Has there been a Garda investigation?

    If not then ask the question why not.....

    You have a bit of a hard time ahead but seriously keep at them and don't accept how it's gone so far.


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    #30
    Studiostichup
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Studiostichup


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Then how can you or they prove it wasn't tampered with.

    This can not be used it must be the original unmolested footage.

    Contact the data controller.

    You need to keep at the union
    They did tamper
    They deleted it but before hand took a copy to a phone and recorded what only the wanted me to see.
    I asked to see from 7pm at the time of incident
    But they produce this phone footage that only shows from 7:10pm


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    #31
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Studiostichup wrote: »
    They did tamper
    They deleted it but before hand took a copy to a phone and recorded what only the wanted me to see.
    I asked to see from 7pm at the time of incident
    But they produce this phone footage that only shows from 7:10pm

    That's not what I said I'm coming across on your side here.

    I'm stating the fact it's not the original footage so can not be used as it can, has or may well have been altered.


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