What was that about in strokestown?

charlie14

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

True to be fair...

If he had said he was irish - would that have made the situation any better or worse?

It would in the sense that if he was Irish with an address in the state and not licensed, the Garda would not let him within a mile of the place without being arrested.
This whole thing blew up because he, or the rest of that gang apparently, were neither.

Something people here seem to want to ignore. Even the Minister for Justice and the Taoiseach seem to be joining in on that, playing a game of political football rather than looking at why this escalated to the level it did.

contrary_devil

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Does anyone have any proof that they were loyalist?
The only thing anyone has said is that one of them had a northern accent?

Not proof of being a loyalist but a bit about the boss of the "security firm"

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/former-british-soldier-whose-private-13747413

pablo128

charlie14 wrote: »

It would in the sense that if he was Irish with an address in the state and not licensed, the Garda would not let him within a mile of the place without being arrested.
This whole thing blew up because he, or the rest of that gang apparently, were neither.

Something people here seem to want to ignore. Even the Minister for Justice and the Taoiseach seem to be joining in on that, playing a game of political football rather than looking at why this escalated to the level it did.

Irish, English, Dutch, Australian, he didn't need to be licenced to carry out this eviction. You have been told this repeatedly.

Figerty

Danzy wrote: »

You should join FG, the loan will be written off or if you join FF there will be no repayment terms or interest rates.

While FF reps have a shocking history in getting bent loans, FG reps have a shocking history in getting failed loans written off while they keep the assets. That is what small business owners like myself were there to carry.

We stayed inside the law, never involved in FG or FF or any party, while others around profited from their connections to those parties, g it out if trouble with Phone calls.

Many of us prefer to make it ourselves and/or honestly, instead of being handed it down the family tree or using political ties to bend things.

Labour in fairness to them never went down that road and I'm no fan of their left politics.

Labour (workers party) used to print their own fivers in north Dublin. I recall that being said accross the Dail,, and there was no reply.

Danzy

Figerty wrote: »

Labour (workers party) used to print their own fivers in north Dublin. I recall that being said accross the Dail,, and there was no reply.

Forgot that, they were suited to coalition with FG and FF them.

I gave up voting years ago.

MrMusician18

eagle eye wrote: »

Not many have sympathy for him.

The big story here is bringing loyalist thugs down from Northern Ireland to carry out the eviction. The locals are irate over it and we'll they should be.

And where were the vigilantes from?

MrMusician18

tuxy wrote: »

This is what retired garda(30 years severed in Longford) had to say

And we all know Gardai never tell fibs.

charlie14

pablo128 wrote: »

Irish, English, Dutch, Australian, he didn't need to be licenced to carry out this eviction. You have been told this repeatedly.

I have indeed.

I have yet to be told why anyone being a member of the state doing even basic pub security needs to be Garda vetted and licensed while it is acceptable for anyone to swan in from outside of the state and operate without either and have an Garda Siochana protection while doing so.

charlie14

Danzy wrote: »

Forgot that, they were suited to coalition with FG and FF them.

I gave up voting years ago.

Democratic Left. Not just 50 pound notes that were still doing the rounds until the euro was introduced, but strong links to that nice East German secret police force, the Stasi.
I don`t think they were ever suited with FF, but they did spend 3 years in government with FG and Labour.

More or less took over the Labour Party when the two later amalgamated.

Danzy

charlie14 wrote: »

Democratic Left. Not just 50 pound notes that were still doing the rounds until the euro was introduced, but strong links to that nice East German secret police force, the Stasi.
I don`t think they were ever suited with FF, but they did spend 3 years in government with FG and Labour.

More or less took over the Labour Party when the two later amalgamated.

If they were forging money, they were a good fit for FF.

FF are like Ceasar. A man to every woman and a woman to every man in Rome, an ancient jibe about his suspected sexuality but in this context reflective of how FF give ground on policy to whoever they are in with. With Labour they were very left with the PDs they were the opposite a few months later and now they vote what ever way FG want.

pablo128

charlie14 wrote: »

I have indeed.

I have yet to be told why anyone being a member of the state doing even basic pub security needs to be Garda vetted and licensed while it is acceptable for anyone to swan in from outside of the state and operate without either and have an Garda Siochana protection while doing so.

I just told you. You don't need any kind of licence if you are employed to carry out an eviction. You do need a licence and be resident in the relevant state if you are doing other security work.

charlie14

Danzy wrote: »

If they were forging money, they were a good fit for FF.

FF are like Ceasar. A man to every woman and a woman to every man in Rome, an ancient jibe about his suspected sexuality but in this context reflective of how FF give ground on policy to whoever they are in with. With Labour they were very left with the PDs they were the opposite a few months later and now they vote what ever way FG want.

Whatever about FF I find it a bit laughable FG throwing shapes now over this at SF considering their own recent history of being in a coalition government with Democratic Left, and as recent as 2007, according to the then Green Party, them approaching the Greens to sound out SF on forming part of a coalition government with FG.
One of the Green T.D`s, Sargent I think, told them to do their own dirty work and compared it to a lad asking another lad would he ask his sister would she go out with him.

eagle eye

MrMusician18 wrote:

And where were the vigilantes from?

I don't know but I can tell you that a large majority if those protecting the property last night were what I'd call ordinary, decent locals.

realdanbreen

tretorn wrote: »

They didnt behave like thugs as far as I can see.

So you reckon it's OK to bring Loyalist thugs down from the 6 counties to evict Irish citizens? IMO those thugs were very fortunate that they only ended up in hospital.

patsy_mccabe

Thread Now Closed.

charlie14

pablo128 wrote: »

I just told you. You don't need any kind of licence if you are employed to carry out an eviction. You do need a licence and be resident in the relevant state if you are doing other security work.

And you believe that this had nothing to do with how this whole thing escalated and that it is acceptable ?
The Minister for Justice didn`t appear to find it acceptable yesterday.

Today though rather than closing what is a legal loophole he did seem more interested in avoiding the subject in favour of having a go at SF.

kippy

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon it's OK to bring Loyalist thugs down from the 6 counties to evict Irish citizens? IMO those thugs were very fortunate that they only ended up in hospital.

Once they acted within the law and there were currently no alternatives, where's the issue?
Somebody has to do the job.
The irony of calling one side thugs and not the other must be lost on you BTW.

pablo128

charlie14 wrote: »

And you believe that this had nothing to do with how this whole thing escalated and that it is acceptable ?
The Minister for Justice didn`t appear to find it acceptable yesterday.

Today though rather than closing what is a legal loophole he did seem more interested in avoiding the subject in favour of having a go at SF.

You are agreed then that the eviction was carried out legally and above board?

John_Rambo

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know but I can tell you that a large majority if those protecting the property last night were what I'd call ordinary, decent locals.

The beating of the eight men, burning of vehicles and killing of the dog seemed to be the act of a very well organised gang with alternative entry & exit routes with vehicles ready for a speedy evacuation or military style "Evac". Not what you'd expect of concerned locals rallying around for support.

However, one can't help but feel sorry for the two that were in their family, ancestral home for decades and probably didn't have much to do with the loans, defaults and other extended debts. Who's to know, they may have known nothing about them.

Either way, and how it got to this, it's a mad, horrible scenario. We all have to pay our bills, but the footage of the eviction was unpleasant and hard to watch, high tension and emotions.

MrMusician18

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know but I can tell you that a large majority if those protecting the property last night were what I'd call ordinary, decent locals.

Were many also good republicans as well?

Dinzee Conlee

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon it's OK to bring Loyalist thugs down from the 6 counties to evict Irish citizens? IMO those thugs were very fortunate that they only ended up in hospital.

As another poster has said, they should be vetted and licensed... then - the issue of where they are from wouldn’t come into it...

This is an interesting read...
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/enforcement_of_judgments.html#lad95a

eagle eye

MrMusician18 wrote:

Were many also good republicans as well?

Define good Republicans please?
Just so you know, you are talking with somebody who has no connection or sympathies towards any subversive organisation lest you think otherwise.
I took a spin down there yesterday just to see what was going on. I spoke with a good few people. There was one or two saying that they pitied the people losing the house and land but most were just angry that thugs from.the north were sent to do the job.
There were a few characters hanging around that stood out as not ordinary, decent people, about five of them. I could be totally wrong about those five but I doubt I am, I didn't speak with them at all.
The large majority were locals, decent people.

Danzy

John_Rambo wrote: »

The beating of the eight men, burning of vehicles and killing of the dog seemed to be the act of a very well organised gang with alternative entry & exit routes with vehicles ready for a speedy evacuation or military style "Evac". Not what you'd expect of concerned locals rallying around for support.

However, one can't help but feel sorry for the two that were in their family, ancestral home for decades and probably didn't have much to do with the loans, defaults and other extended debts. Who's to know, they may have known nothing about them.

Either way, and how it got to this, it's a mad, horrible scenario. We all have to pay our bills, but the footage of the eviction was unpleasant and hard to watch, high tension and emotions.

People who know the area, turn out to know the area.

archer22

They look like dacent citizens alright :rolleyes:

https://www.herald.ie/news/cattlesmuggling-gang-linked-to-vigilante-attack-37635790.html

Danzy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Were many also good republicans as well?

I'd guarantee you more of them have canvassed for FG or FF than any other party.

Maybe you are a dissident type and want people to think this was all down to the continuity IRA or whoever.

That can't be ruled out.

squinn2912

What do you make of the exchange between Leo and Pearse? I find it disturbing that LV can support the action of 3 elderly people being dragged from their homes in that manner in the first place. The best he could come up with was an arrogant quip about balaclavas - avoiding the issue. I don't think he supports the ordinary person falling on hard times. Possibly a backlash coming my way after that but it's what I think. I'm a Sinn Féin supporter.

Wheeliebin30

squinn2912 wrote: »

What do you make of the exchange between Leo and Pearse? I find it disturbing that LV can support the action of 3 elderly people being dragged from their homes in that manner in the first place. The best he could come up with was an arrogant quip about balaclavas - avoiding the issue. I don't think he supports the ordinary person falling on hard times. Possibly a backlash coming my way after that but it's what I think. I'm a Sinn Féin supporter.

No engagement with the banks since 2009?

Owes 400,000 to revenue.

Money owed to local businesses.

I’ve no sympathy for these leeches.

Who2

squinn2912 wrote: »

What do you make of the exchange between Leo and Pearse? I find it disturbing that LV can support the action of 3 elderly people being dragged from their homes in that manner in the first place. The best he could come up with was an arrogant quip about balaclavas - avoiding the issue. I don't think he supports the ordinary person falling on hard times. Possibly a backlash coming my way after that but it's what I think. I'm a Sinn Féin supporter.

50s and early 60s aren’t elderly people. They have judgement after judgement against them from everything from revenue to car finance to a quarry. Why should everyone have to pay for their recklessness. It’s easy for sin fein and their populist bull that just won’t work in the real world to come out and dramatize this just because they’re “personal friends of Matt Carthy”. It’s falling at a good time where,along with brexit and the anti eviction bill they are trying to get passed that it’s another few minutes drumming up votes of the sort of people Jeremy Kyle gets a hard on for.

John_Rambo

Danzy wrote: »

People who know the area, turn out to know the area.

That's an easy thing to say, but respectively, it's never that simple.

I hear where you're coming from, but it was some retaliation that ended up with a lot of destruction of the site. Do you think it was locals that managed to imobilise that amount of willing fighting men available at 5.30 in the morning for a pre-dawn raid with baseball bats, accelerants for burning the vehicles and (I believe) a gun to kill the dog?
Don't forget, it takes about well over 20+ men to overpower an eight man "ready for action" encamped crew.

I'm not doubting you, and of course, you may have inside info. Have you been in a situation like this? I have and I just know from experience of unwanted gangs encamped in a property it's very easy to get vocal mouthpieces, but very hard to get active volunteers to put their money where they mouth's are. The first volunteers I had in my similar situation were criminals. We had to kindly decline and go the hard legal route.

Willfarman

A return to old fashioned banking is what’s needed. The bank manager should have an in depth knowledge of your breed character and back bone and suffer the repricussions of gambling on the wrong chancer. Every loan is now sanctioned by some Gom call Dublin who can’t be found to talk to face to face!

cameramonkey

archer22 wrote: »

They look like dacent citizens alright :rolleyes:

https://www.herald.ie/news/cattlesmuggling-gang-linked-to-vigilante-attack-37635790.html

There are no facts in the article, they may as well have said a bunch of warlocks were involved. Next it will be malevolent fairy dissident criminal cattle smugglers.

Fooker

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No engagement with the banks since 2009?

Owes 400,000 to revenue.

Money owed to local businesses.

I’ve no sympathy for these leeches.

If you described him as a banker or politician not declaring the guts of 200k in VAT, not repaying their mortgage for 9 years and not paying back local companies, people's opinions would be much different.


It appears that 'Republicans' might have came from Dublin to lay the law down... And it seems to have worked out as a propaganda coup for them.

Willfarman

Willfarman wrote: »

A return to old fashioned banking is what’s needed. The bank manager should have an in depth knowledge of your breed character and back bone and suffer the repricussions of gambling on the wrong chancer. Every loan is now sanctioned by some Gom call Dublin who can’t be found to talk to face to face!

Maybe.... My mother has a good story about when my parents got married. The oul fella owned the farm in his own name, things going well, banked in the local ulster bank all the time...... and they STILL wouldnt give a mortgage for a house :pac:

John_Rambo

Willfarman wrote: »

A return to old fashioned banking is what’s needed. The bank manager should have an in depth knowledge of your breed character and back bone and suffer the repricussions of gambling on the wrong chancer. Every loan is now sanctioned by some Gom call Dublin who can’t be found to talk to face to face!

I'd say this fiasco started with localised loaning from the local bank manager, local quarry, local car dealer, local suppliers etc...

squinn2912

Who2 wrote: »

50s and early 60s aren’t elderly people. They have judgement after judgement against them from everything from revenue to car finance to a quarry. Why should everyone have to pay for their recklessness. It’s easy for sin fein and their populist bull that just won’t work in the real world to come out and dramatize this just because they’re “personal friends of Matt Carthy”. It’s falling at a good time where,along with brexit and the anti eviction bill they are trying to get passed that it’s another few minutes drumming up votes of the sort of people Jeremy Kyle gets a hard on for.

Did you watch the footage of their eviction and the manner in which it was handled? LV still in all his flippant mutterings hasn't addressed that. Without that bill people who are vulnerable will lose their homes in spite of promises to the contrary.

148multi

Willfarman wrote: »

A return to old fashioned banking is what’s needed. The bank manager should have an in depth knowledge of your breed character and back bone and suffer the repricussions of gambling on the wrong chancer. Every loan is now sanctioned by some Gom call Dublin who can’t be found to talk to face to face!

Didn't a bank manager in carrick on shannon give j beirne ( Danger) a credit note for 5 million and he hadn't 40 in the account. It didn't end well either.

Fooker

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/roscommon-eviction-kbc-seeking-debt-repayment-since-2009-1.3736042

High Court records show that KBC lodged proceedings against Michael Anthony McGann in July 2009 and that a possession order was awarded in the case in 2013. The size of the debt is not known but is understood to be in excess of €300,000.

It is understood Mr McGann’s home was visited by a representative of the county sheriff’s office in September and he advised that he would have to leave the property. On December 9th, the house was called on again and the occupants told that possession would be taken of the house two days later.

The court had told the bank it could take possession of the house at 1pm on December 11th and on that date papers to that effect were served by an agent of the sheriff.

So he has likely not paid anything in 9 years and has had 5 years notice to vacate...

Mooooo

Willfarman wrote: »

A return to old fashioned banking is what’s needed. The bank manager should have an in depth knowledge of your breed character and back bone and suffer the repricussions of gambling on the wrong chancer. Every loan is now sanctioned by some Gom call Dublin who can’t be found to talk to face to face!

I dunno, pre crash a lot of loans sanctioned at branch level, now everything goes to Dublin where the computer says yes or no. Repayment capacity is there or it's not. Prob better that way. The father would have gotten money here for ground back in 04 no bother but he had the cop on that prices were daft, if he had gone for it would be likely that we'd be up **** creek or after flowing down it now as 09s price collapse and 12/13 weather coming close together would have finished us with that amount of debt if it was taken

Bass Reeves

I always think it is hilarious that people complain about vulture funds and high costs of loans compared to elsewhere in Europe. This is the reality that nothing gets repossessed in Ireland if the debtors decide to default and play the thicko. We are paying 7-8% on short term unsecured lending and 4-6% for secured lending when elsewhere in Europe the rates are half that.

Why did KBC sell a loan for more than likely cent in the euro because of the whole hassle of repossession's. Why were NI bailiffs used because more than likely Irish ones were unavailable because of fear. I got a farm loan in 2003 it will be repaid next May, I will own the farm. If I did not pay back the loand it would be repossessed that the way it works. Somebody borrowed money gave security of the land and house and then defaulted. Some scum viglantes with a terrorists backgrounds from the border area came along and assaulted these people doing there day to day job. They scum should be caught and send to prison.

There are people in this country that work there ass off that cannot get loans because of tight lending restrictions, they are paying more in rent than a mortgage costs because of sh!te like this.Even if they do they are paying 2% more than they should because of sh!te like this. Because the Central bank know that repossesing in Ireland is impossible.

Next time you are refused a loan, think the interest rate is too high, cannot secure an overdraft, pay 2-4K in solicitor fees to get securitation in place or that your loan is sold to a vulture fund. Do not blame the banks, do not blame the government remember Strokestown and the debacle the year before last down in Cork.

charlie14

pablo128 wrote: »

You are agreed then that the eviction was carried out legally and above board?

Charlie Flanagan the Minister for Justice appeared to believe, at least yesterday, that it was a grey area where a legal loophole was taken advantage of that he intended looking into.
I would agree with him on that and hope it is brought under the same regulations that are required of any member of this state when carrying out even the most basic security function.

pablo128

charlie14 wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan the Minister for Justice appeared to believe, at least yesterday, that it was a grey area where a legal loophole was taken advantage of that he intended looking into.
I would agree with him on that and hope it is brought under the same regulations that are required of any member of this state when carrying out even the most basic security function.

I agree with you regarding regulation of this sector.

Would you be willing to concede that this eviction was carried out legally and above board?

Danzy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I always think it is hilarious that people complain about vulture funds and high costs of loans compared to elsewhere in Europe. This is the reality that nothing gets repossessed in Ireland if the debtors decide to default and play the thicko. We are paying 7-8% on short term unsecured lending and 4-6% for secured lending when elsewhere in Europe the rates are half that.

Why did KBC sell a loan for more than likely cent in the euro because of the whole hassle of repossession's. Why were NI bailiffs used because more than likely Irish ones were unavailable because of fear. I got a farm loan in 2003 it will be repaid next May, I will own the farm. If I did not pay back the loand it would be repossessed that the way it works. Somebody borrowed money gave security of the land and house and then defaulted. Some scum viglantes with a terrorists backgrounds from the border area came along and assaulted these people doing there day to day job. They scum should be caught and send to prison.

There are people in this country that work there ass off that cannot get loans because of tight lending restrictions, they are paying more in rent than a mortgage costs because of sh!te like this.Even if they do they are paying 2% more than they should because of sh!te like this. Because the Central bank know that repossesing in Ireland is impossible.

Next time you are refused a loan, think the interest rate is too high, cannot secure an overdraft, pay 2-4K in solicitor fees to get securitation in place or that your loan is sold to a vulture fund. Do not blame the banks, do not blame the government remember Strokestown and the debacle the year before last down in Cork.

About 4k properties a year are under repossession, not disagreeing with your post.

charlie14

pablo128 wrote: »

I agree with you regarding regulation of this sector.

Would you be willing to concede that this eviction was carried out legally and above board?

Far as I`m concerned it was carried out by taking advantage of a loophole in a law, and the resulting trouble was a direct result of that.

If you want to term that legally acceptable I will leave that up to you.

tretorn

The McGanns have issued a statement but no reference therein to money owed.

They have placed the matter in the hands of not one but two firms of solicitors, more debts to pay.

They want to be left to enjoy Xmas in their home.

They said something about respecting the rule of law..........

It must be nice living in never never land.

Danzy

John_Rambo wrote: »

That's an easy thing to say, but respectively, it's never that simple.

I hear where you're coming from, but it was some retaliation that ended up with a lot of destruction of the site. Do you think it was locals that managed to imobilise that amount of willing fighting men available at 5.30 in the morning for a pre-dawn raid with baseball bats, accelerants for burning the vehicles and (I believe) a gun to kill the dog?
Don't forget, it takes about well over 20+ men to overpower an eight man "ready for action" encamped crew.

I'm not doubting you, and of course, you may have inside info. Have you been in a situation like this? I have and I just know from experience of unwanted gangs encamped in a property it's very easy to get vocal mouthpieces, but very hard to get active volunteers to put their money where they mouth's are. The first volunteers I had in my similar situation were criminals. We had to kindly decline and go the hard legal route.

20 lads probably used to physical work and highly motivated with bats vs 8 big men who are considered untouchable at home because of their organization and the firepower it commands but who are away from home and no "resources" at hand.


In this case it was easy to get volunteers and they took people who were there for a pay out to pieces.

In reality it was no contest.

The danger in their escalation was that it might engender a response.

The moral at the very least is hire professional security people not the roughest org. you can get.

It makes the difference between knowing where Strokestown is it not.

Neddyusa

cameramonkey wrote: »

There are no facts in the article, they may as well have said a bunch of warlocks were involved. Next it will be malevolent fairy dissident criminal cattle smugglers.

Absolutely - some shocking muck passing for journalism.

I actually laughed out loud reading this peach of a line:
"In exchange, gardai now fear these cattle smugglers will be allowed to target farmers in republican strong-holds for a small tax"

WTF!!

Some serious imaginations running wild in either the Garda press office or Evening herald office :pac:

pablo128

charlie14 wrote: »

Far as I`m concerned it was carried out by taking advantage of a loophole in a law, and the resulting trouble was a direct result of that.

If you want to term that legally acceptable I will leave that up to you.

I'll accept that under the circumstances.

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

He said he was British in a strong NI accent.
If you know anything about NI then the mustache was superfluous and the main reason for the escalation imho.

People in the north are allowed to identify as British, just as they are allowed to identify as Irish. Looks like we haven't come very far at all. Believing you are British doesn't make you a thug. Nor does the manner of the eviction which seems to be all above board according to gardai on site and the gardai commissioner.

Danzy

Neddyusa wrote: »

Absolutely - some shocking muck passing for journalism.

I actually laughed out loud reading this peach of a line:
"In exchange, gardai now fear these cattle smugglers will be allowed to target farmers in republican strong-holds for a small tax"

WTF!!

Some serious imaginations running wild in either the Garda press office or Evening herald office :pac:

The cross over ground between most of those involved in this attack will be GAA membership, politically most will be either FG or FF..

Pretending Strokestown is a dissident hotbed suits the dissidents and some in the Media.

runawaybishop

charlie14 wrote: »

Far as I`m concerned it was carried out by taking advantage of a loophole in a law, and the resulting trouble was a direct result of that.

If you want to term that legally acceptable I will leave that up to you.

Please don't pretend if they had a PSA license then this wouldn't have happened. There are a bunch of anti-eviction shysters giving bad advice to people and causing trouble and have been for some time. If the lads weren't from the north they would have latched onto something else to cause trouble about.