December 22nd - Frampton v Warrington & Whyte v Chisora

Morrison J

Whyte KO/TKO

walshb wrote: »

True, and apart from rd 10, JC was not bothered by MC

It works both ways, and more analysis on the so called “superstar.”

Bothered doesn't necessarily mean hurt. I meant that Cunningham never looked like he could box with Conlan. Never really gave Conlan an awful lot to think about. Was clear levels between the two of them which is all I wanted to see.

It's very early to be ruling anything out for Mick. I agree it's been a bit underwhelming but I do think as he goes up the levels he may go up a gear himself too especially with Booth to bring him along.

Anyone who watched Josh Warrington after 10 pro fights would've said he'd do well to win a British title. Look at him now. Just unfortunate for Mick that he's doing all his learning under the lights and intense scrutiny. He's only going to improve from here.

walshb

Warrington Points

Bubblegummers wrote: »

Would this be same analysis you provided on the Tyson fight( yes I read it)

Hardly..

walshb

Warrington Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Bothered doesn't necessarily mean hurt. I meant that Cunningham never looked like he could box with Conlan. Never really gave Conlan an awful lot to think about. Was clear levels between the two of them which is all I wanted to see.

It's very early to be ruling anything out for Mick. I agree it's been a bit underwhelming but I do think as he goes up the levels he may go up a gear himself too especially with Booth to bring him along.

Anyone who watched Josh Warrington after 10 pro fights would've said he'd do well to win a British title. Look at him now. Just unfortunate for Mick that he's doing all his learning under the lights and intense scrutiny. He's only going to improve from here.

But to my point...

Mick wrecks Carl...that’s what is being said by a poster..

I think this ludicrous based off what we have to go on from both men..

As to the improving. You have used this a lot. Not saying it can’t happen, but to what level is the key?

You expect him to become a lot better? To improve a lot in key areas..

I think if MC was not Irish, or a Sky hype English lad, you would be far less accommodating, forgiving and blinded..

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

walshb wrote: »

Hardly..

But your wrote him off stupidly like you are with Mick.

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

walshb wrote: »

But to my point...

Mick wrecks Carl...that’s what is being said by a poster..

I think this ludicrous based off what we have to go on from both men..

As to the improving. You have used this a lot. Not saying it can’t happen, but to what level is the key?

You expect him to become a lot better? To improve a lot in key areas..

I think if MC was not Irish, or a Sky hype English lad, you would be far less accommodating, forgiving and blinded..

Who said wreck?

walshb

Warrington Points

Bubblegummers wrote: »

But your wrote him off stupidly like you are with Mick.

You do realize that Fury was stepping in the ring after 3 years out to fight a HW champion, who is one of the heaviest ever hitters?

Comparing this to analyzing/predicting/thinking about how far MC can go as a pro is ridiculous...

For the record: MC could go all the way, win a world belt and be number 1 in the division...

I just believe from what I have seen so far that prediction is not something I can get behind..

You think my thinking this is stupid? It’s not an exact science..

walshb

Warrington Points

Bubblegummers wrote: »

Who said wreck?

My mistake there.

Well, your 110 percent certainty is still very odd to me..

squinn2912

Frampton KO/TKO

Just chipping in now. I went to the pub to watch the Frampton fight and I feel like I've gone 12 rounds with Warrington myself today!
Carl's footwork is so slow now and although he's still reasonably accurate he wasn't quick enough to get the shots away last night. I always feared that if he slowed he'd be too easy to hit and the reach disadvantage would be a factor. He's not a KO fighter either which meant Josh didn't need to be worried. I think carl is done. Since he failed to make weight he's never looked the same and the McG's have taken a lot out of him. I think they're trouble making users but they did get the best out of him. He's achieved so much and last night I was proud of him. From round 3/4 I couldn't see a way for him and to stay the course for the 12 was brilliant, I thought he'd fall away. I think Warrington is excellent. Such grit and output. But lacking in real power so he might not be at the top for very long. Carl and Selby met him at the very right time for him.

Whyte and Chisora I watched today between bathroom sprints. I thought it was scrappy with awful defense the whole way through. Chisora has had a late rally in his career but he should retire. Sweet shot to take him out. Whyte thinks he's fantastic but he's bang average. Wins vs chisora, parker and browne aren't special. Parker maybe but he had favors from the ref in that fight too and was all but knocked out himself. I guess he's good enough to get title shots but I don't see him with a belt. The AJ nonsense at the end made me even more nauseous. This 'what do you want to see if wilder isn't available' crap put years on me. He can't add either and defaulted to 'I've got them level' without really scoring the rounds.

Conlon looked average at best. think he's top 10 now? I expected better from him but maybe he will look better against better opposition.

There's my sour rant over. I'm kinda sorry I didn't stay at home last night and join in on this debate - good discussion from reading the thread.

walshb

Warrington Points

Enjoyed that breakdown, mate!

ASOT

Whyte KO/TKO

I'd agree with all that also.

squinn2912

Frampton KO/TKO

Haha I'm almost disappointed I'd welcome a snottery row now the form I'm in. They were two good fights. Forgot to mention Martin Murray - always liked him but he's well finished. A cut below.

yourdeadwright

How difficult is it to watch a fight on Sky , there keep going on about Whyte cause he was the Hearn fighter and ignoring a lot of the good work Chosora was doing ,
It would have veen brilliant to see Chisora hold out and win after the 2 point deduction ,
Whyte is hopeless at world level
How can they sell the AJ fight after that piss poor sgowing last night from Whyte

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

Murray went down in my books tonight after admiring him for years after his foreign fighter and luck in me own country rant.

He was one of the men complaining about Tyson not getting the win( foreign fighter in wilders country) time to call it a day when you resort to this.

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just chipping in now. I went to the pub to watch the Frampton fight and I feel like I've gone 12 rounds with Warrington myself today!
Carl's footwork is so slow now and although he's still reasonably accurate he wasn't quick enough to get the shots away last night. I always feared that if he slowed he'd be too easy to hit and the reach disadvantage would be a factor. He's not a KO fighter either which meant Josh didn't need to be worried. I think carl is done. Since he failed to make weight he's never looked the same and the McG's have taken a lot out of him. I think they're trouble making users but they did get the best out of him. He's achieved so much and last night I was proud of him. From round 3/4 I couldn't see a way for him and to stay the course for the 12 was brilliant, I thought he'd fall away. I think Warrington is excellent. Such grit and output. But lacking in real power so he might not be at the top for very long. Carl and Selby met him at the very right time for him.

Whyte and Chisora I watched today between bathroom sprints. I thought it was scrappy with awful defense the whole way through. Chisora has had a late rally in his career but he should retire. Sweet shot to take him out. Whyte thinks he's fantastic but he's bang average. Wins vs chisora, parker and browne aren't special. Parker maybe but he had favors from the ref in that fight too and was all but knocked out himself. I guess he's good enough to get title shots but I don't see him with a belt. The AJ nonsense at the end made me even more nauseous. This 'what do you want to see if wilder isn't available' crap put years on me. He can't add either and defaulted to 'I've got them level' without really scoring the rounds.

Conlon looked average at best. think he's top 10 now? I expected better from him but maybe he will look better against better opposition.

There's my sour rant over. I'm kinda sorry I didn't stay at home last night and join in on this debate - good discussion from reading the thread.

Agreed with your run down mate except mick, and I don’t wanna sound like a fan boy just feel he’s fought who he has and that’s why he’s at the level he’s at, I believe if he steps up as will his performance.

PLOPS

Draw

Mick has looked fairly average so far, it's surprised me to be honest as I thought he had the potential to go to the top. He keeps looking for better opposition than he's fighting yet he's looked dreadful in most of his fights against journey men. Same goes for Jason Quigley, a world Amature medal, yet he's looked bang average. Anyone that says either of them are elite cannot base it on any of their performances so far.

Now let's take Aaron Mckenna who is 19 and had a handful of pro fights and has looked a level above any active Irish prospect fighting at the moment. He's fought men and out landed and out powered them, he's clever and has shown ring smarts. I Would have more faith in him or his brother making waves on the pro scene.

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

PLOPS wrote: »

Mick has looked fairly average so far, it's surprised me to be honest as I thought he had the potential to go to the top. He keeps looking for better opposition than he's fighting yet he's looked dreadful in most of his fights against journey men. Same goes for Jason Quigley, a world Amature medal, yet he's looked bang average. Anyone that says either of them are elite cannot base it on any of their performances so far.

Now let's take Aaron Mckenna who is 19 and had a handful of pro fights and has looked a level above any active Irish prospect fighting at the moment. He's fought men and out landed and out powered them, he's clever and has shown ring smarts. I Would have more faith in him or his brother making waves on the pro scene.

Really? To the entire post hahah

squinn2912

Frampton KO/TKO

Bubblegummers wrote: »

Agreed with your run down mate except mick, and I don’t wanna sound like a fan boy just feel he’s fought who he has and that’s why he’s at the level he’s at, I believe if he steps up as will his performance.

Yea that’s my point on conlon. Underwhelming so far but may improve when he goes up in levels. I’m not convinced on that though

Try_harder

Warrington Points

Conlan seems to have stalled a bit for me. But I dont support MTK fighters so I dont care

Bubblegummers

Chisora KO/TKO

Try_harder wrote: »

Conlan seems to have stalled a bit for me. But I dont support MTK fighters so I dont care

Why don’t you support MTK Fighters? Please don’t use the media bollox.

walshb

Warrington Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

How difficult is it to watch a fight on Sky , there keep going on about Whyte cause he was the Hearn fighter and ignoring a lot of the good work Chosora was doing ,
It would have veen brilliant to see Chisora hold out and win after the 2 point deduction ,
Whyte is hopeless at world level
How can they sell the AJ fight after that piss poor sgowing last night from Whyte

Not directed at you, but..

Many here slating AJ because his next fight appears not to be Fury or Wilder..

Do these people have inside info and details as to why this is the case, or is it just the usual anti AJ/Matchroom/Hearn angle?

Deiseboy01

I'm with Walshb on the Conlon debate, once a fighter comes home from the US I always have doubts about them, were they found out in tough gyms, did the promoter or trainer rate them, were they living the life?

Coming home and going the Hearn or Warren route to a title shot is a great option, both have shown through the years that they can position a fighter for a title shot without exposing them to much risk on the journey.

walshb

Warrington Points

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I'm with Walshb on the Conlon debate, once a fighter comes home from the US I always have doubts about them, were they found out in tough gyms, did the promoter or trainer rate them, were they living the life?

Coming home and going the Hearn or Warren route to a title shot is a great option, both have shown through the years that they can position a fighter for a title shot without exposing them to much risk on the journey.

That's just it. It's not just me, but because I am a regular contributor here I will generally garner the most replies. There are folks here who view his potential the same, and some who are far more harsh and dismissive..

Anyone knows me they will know how highly I regarded MC and how much I championed his amateur career.....

Rio outburst I spoke about, but that's out of ring antics.

Pure boxing in the ring I was always very encouraging of MC; truly great Irish/international amateur.

I watched back MC in Rio and was comparing him to the other night: I know, different types of sport, amateur vs pro, but nowhere the other night did I see that real snap and speed that he showed in Rio, and in other amateur fights. Now, there may be a valid reason for that. It's the prop game, but through the whole fight I saw more labored punch delivery.

Until he meets a decent opponent the verdict is still out

But I would like to hear more reasoned analysis and debate for those who label myself stupid or silly to be not so confident.

His speed, power, defense, stamina, chin, strength etc....

Against quality I just think there are too many areas where he will come unstuck...

Anyway, we won't know until he does indeed step up...

I would love nothing more than to see MC prove me wrong. I always liked watching him, and he has wowed me many times in the amateur game.

Choochtown

Hate to say it but I think that Carl looked a shot fighter on Saturday and only his pride and fighting instinct got him through to the end.
I just can't see what Jamie Moore has added to him as a fighter. I know at featherweight he's never going to be a devastating puncher but surely Moore can see the way Carl plants his feet square-on time and time again when he gets in range. You'll never hurt anyone with a stance like that.
The contrast in his footwork and stance from the Santa Cruz fights to now is alarming.
Is it poor training techniques? Lack of conditioning?

Having said that, what an absolute class act he is. Whether in victory or defeat, he's a role model for young boxers and a great ambassador for the sport.

Choochtown

Regarding Conlon, I agree he's been underwhelming.
I think in the amateurs over the shorter distance he's up against an opponent who is trying to win every round so a high tempo and an ability to counterpunch will pay dividends.
Most pros that he has been in with so far are content to concede a few rounds and not commit as much which doesn't suit Conlon's style.
I think all will be revealed when he steps up in class and steps in with someone who expects to beat him and will fight accordingly.

walshb

Warrington Points

Choochtown wrote: »

Hate to say it but I think that Carl looked a shot fighter on Saturday and only his pride and fighting instinct got him through to the end.

Not at peak, but still fought very well...

Bit of spite and sharpness and tidiness I noticed missing....

Warrinngton is good. Nothing more...

normanoffside

Bubblegummers wrote: »

Why don’t you support MTK Fighters? Please don’t use the media bollox.

Good piece on it here.
http://www.punditarena.com/features/emackenna/mackenna-on-monday-mtk-ban-prevents-us-from-truly-appreciating-greatness-of-carl-frampton/

Try_harder

Warrington Points

Bubblegummers wrote: »

Why dont you support MTK Fighters? Please dont use the media bollox.

Connections with Gangland crime

walshb

Warrington Points

Try_harder wrote: »

Connections with Gangland crime

And it's well documented....

A crime "story" that has wreaked havoc in this country.

Try_harder

Warrington Points

walshb wrote: »

And it's well documented....

A crime "story" that has caused havoc in this country.

A shooting at one of their pro fights, putting innocent lives in danger. Pass.

Morrison J

Whyte KO/TKO

normanoffside wrote: »

Good piece on it here.
http://www.punditarena.com/features/emackenna/mackenna-on-monday-mtk-ban-prevents-us-from-truly-appreciating-greatness-of-carl-frampton/

Some valid points in there for sure but lets be honest he only joined MTK in 2017. If the Irish public didn't recognise Frampton when winning world titles under the McGuigan's then they were never interested in the first place.

It's all about where he's from. If he was a Dub he'd have been a superstar.