No heating at home

Graces7

Baby01032012 wrote: »

But Graces7 works for Threshold and is hell bent on sending the tenant that way...to get poor advise and cause a dispute where none exists...its unfortunate the timing over christmas means there wont be any one to replace it. Its not like the LL has ignored the tenant, they sent someone there pretty sharpish who advised LL to replace it...then LL without delay ordered new one.

Cheap electric heaters, fireplace etc. until boiler is replaced.

:eek:

in my great experience Threshold have never given poor advice or caused a dispute etc etc etc. They have explained the laws etc and let me decide.

They have tenancy law straight. None of the unhelpful waffly obfuscation I have bolded.

Macha

Agree on the badmouthing of Threshold.

I would think heating would need to be repaired within a week maximum as it is relatively urgent, especially at this time of year. Better yet 3-5 days. The landlord deciding to buy equipment from Poland is not the concern of the tenant.

Macha

Macha wrote: »

Agree on the badmouthing of Threshold.

I would think heating would need to be repaired within a week maximum as it is relatively urgent, especially at this time of year. Better yet 3-5 days. The landlord deciding to buy equipment from Poland is not the concern of the tenant.

People really aren’t getting it, there is no way you will get a boiler replaced in 3-5 days it just won’t happen. People can claim all these rules but it just will not be possible for the reasons I’ve outlined in my post and that’s even leaving Christmas out of the equation which will add even more time to it.

As for threashold, I’ve seen them come out with everything from poor advise to illegal advice to outright lies. They are an anti-LL organization who shouldn’t be trusted and appear to like trying to make a LLs life more difficult.

punisher5112

Macha wrote: »

Agree on the badmouthing of Threshold.

I would think heating would need to be repaired within a week maximum as it is relatively urgent, especially at this time of year. Better yet 3-5 days. The landlord deciding to buy equipment from Poland is not the concern of the tenant.

There is no limit once done in a reasonable time frame.

Honestly how do you think this would be achieved.

Plumbers are hard to get, equipment has to be ordered, boilers come in many different sizes and types.


The LL has acted right away and got a plumber.

The plumber can't fix so needs to be replaced.

Replacement is ordered.

These things take time.

Op was the boiler serviced once a year?

This is unfortunate but the boiler has had it easy in the summer then used a lot this is usually when they fail.

Baby01032012

Graces7 wrote: »

:eek:

in my great experience Threshold have never given poor advice or caused a dispute etc etc etc. They have explained the laws etc and let me decide.

They have tenancy law straight. None of the unhelpful waffly obfuscation I have bolded.

What was bolded was factual based on the OP. If you have a problem with a post report it. My experience of threshold is different and based on my direct experiences of them.

Each to their own.

Cazale

Our boiler went last winter and it took visits from three different plumbers before we got one who knew what they were doing and that the pump needed replaced. I always thought if the heat went we would just put jumpers on and get on with it. We were without heat for a week and it was a very miserable experience. Even with portable heaters we ended up going to bed at 7pm each night because of how cold it was.

I've every sympathy with the op. I don't think people realise how miserable it can be once the heat goes out of the house. Waiting for a boiler from Poland is unacceptable at this time of year.

Baby01032012

I’d would assume the boiler was chosen on instruction of the guy he got to look at it. I don’t think a landlord suddenly become knowledgeable on boilers. The landlord acted without undue delay in addressing the issue. Sourcing and in particular replacing a boiler over Christmas is not quick given the time of year.

Given the housing crisis and view painted of landlords everyone jumps on assumption landlord is somehow wrong.

I’d expect more from couple of the posters above.

It takes half the effort to borrow beg or buy an electric heater light a fire etc than starting thrteads on boards and cases against a landlord.

odyssey06

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’d would assume the boiler was chosen on instruction of the guy he got to look at it. I don’t think a landlord suddenly become knowledgeable on boilers. The landlord acted without undue delay in addressing the issue. Sourcing and in particular replacing a boiler over Christmas is not quick given the time of year.

Given the housing crisis and view painted of landlords everyone jumps on assumption landlord is somehow wrong.

I’d expect more from couple of the posters above.

It takes half the effort to borrow beg or buy an electric heater light a fire etc than starting thrteads on boards and cases against a landlord.

How old was the boiler?
The tenant has a contract with the landlord. The tenant didn't break the boiler. The boiler gave up the ghost because it was too old, according to the OP, and beyond fixing.
The landlord should have replaced the boiler before it got to that stage OR should have a backup plan of heaters provided to the tenant for when it inevitably fails at short notice.
They are providing a business service to the tenant, this isn't a holiday home being loaned to a friend.
If I've paid for a shuttle bus and it breaks down cos it's too old, I'm expecting the shuttle company to provide an alternative or a refund.

All of the backup options you talk about cost money which the tenant should not have to pay for. Lighting a fire in an open fire where you have no idea of the state of the chimney is dangerous.
Maybe the OP is better off looking after himself, but he would be out of pocket when he should not have to be so it's legitimate to seek redress from the landlord and extra support.

10pennymixup

The many people that have experienced this, or have experience in boiler replacement/ repair, are saying it can't be done in 3-5 days, especially at Christmas.

Yet the know it alls spout LL's obligations. Threshold say this so, it must be done. Threshold suggest 3-5 days for and urgent repair, such as heating break down.

It's a suggestion, not law. Threshold are not plumbers but they know not all heating breakdowns can be repaired in such a short time frame as not all breakdowns are the same. What happens if a repair is because of something like gun barrel, requiring every pipe in the house to be pulled out, concrete floors ripped up, etc. 3 to 5 days or else, my ass.

The reason why its a suggestion, is because the law is a reasonable time frame, and no exact amount of days are prescribed.

From what the OP says (from various threads), they have a complaint filed with the RTB about the LL over another issue, the OP is currently refusing the LL any inspection of the property. The heating subsequently breaks down and the LL still has a plumber in nearly toute suite and the part/ replacement is ordered as soon as the problem is identified. From what the OP has posted the LL is making a reasonable effort to rectify the problem.

If the OP wasn't a tenant, but the home owner. Do the "keyboard experts" think that they would be able to perform the same Christmas miracle that they are expecting the LL to pull off?

Can't believe this thread is going on this long.

odyssey06

10pennymixup wrote: »

If the OP wasn't a tenant, but the home owner. Do the "keyboard experts" think that they would be able to perform the same Christmas miracle that they are expecting the LL to pull off? Can't believe this thread is going on this long.

I'm not expecting that. But you know, if the boiler broke in the landlord's house, do you think he would just sit there with no heat or water? Whatever he would be doing in his own house, that's what he should be doing for the rental property as an alternative while he remedies the situation long term.

Fol20

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not expecting that. But you know, if the boiler broke in the landlord's house, do you think he would just sit there with no heat or water? Whatever he would be doing in his own house, that's what he should be doing for the rental property as an alternative while he remedies the situation long term.

You would actually be surprised. Because of legislation, tenants will actually get first dibs on jobs to be done with me. When your talking from inexperience of how tradesmen operate and incorrect expections for jobs, you can correct know how it works. Any home owner that has experienced replacing a boiler can tell you first hand that its not something that you can just pop in an replace within a few days. Sure since any good tradesmen will have several jobs always lined up its very dofficult to get them to come out in our current climate.

cnocbui

2kw electric fan heaters would be the best temporary solution. They will heat almost any room faster than anything else. I have used one in an uninsulated solid stone building, in winter, with a room temperature of 3°C and 5m ceilings. They are also relatively cheap. Only downside is noise.

Thoie

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not expecting that. But you know, if the boiler broke in the landlord's house, do you think he would just sit there with no heat or water? Whatever he would be doing in his own house, that's what he should be doing for the rental property as an alternative while he remedies the situation long term.

Our boiler broke down this time of year a few years ago, in our own house. We'd have loved some kind of Christmas miracle that enabled us to get it sorted in 3 days, but that's not real life. What we did in our own house was light the fire, kept all the doors closed and wore a lot of clothes. As Cazale said, it wasn't fun, but it wasn't like we just sat on our arses vaguely hoping the heating would get fixed. We rang around everywhere, but it still took weeks. So yes, I suspect the landlord would sit around with no central heating in their own house, as they're not miracle workers.

Old diesel

10pennymixup wrote: »

The many people that have experienced this, or have experience in boiler replacement/ repair, are saying it can't be done in 3-5 days, especially at Christmas.

Yet the know it alls spout LL's obligations. Threshold say this so, it must be done. Threshold suggest 3-5 days for and urgent repair, such as heating break down.

It's a suggestion, not law. Threshold are not plumbers but they know not all heating breakdowns can be repaired in such a short time frame as not all breakdowns are the same. What happens if a repair is because of something like gun barrel, requiring every pipe in the house to be pulled out, concrete floors ripped up, etc. 3 to 5 days or else, my ass.

The reason why its a suggestion, is because the law is a reasonable time frame, and no exact amount of days are prescribed.

From what the OP says (from various threads), they have a complaint filed with the RTB about the LL over another issue, the OP is currently refusing the LL any inspection of the property. The heating subsequently breaks down and the LL still has a plumber in nearly toute suite and the part/ replacement is ordered as soon as the problem is identified. From what the OP has posted the LL is making a reasonable effort to rectify the problem.

If the OP wasn't a tenant, but the home owner. Do the "keyboard experts" think that they would be able to perform the same Christmas miracle that they are expecting the LL to pull off?

Can't believe this thread is going on this long.

The problem with ordering from Poland is the perception that someone just went online and ordered one from a Polish Supplier.

I mean that's what I thought happened from the OP.

What could also happen is that the Irish boiler supplier might be getting the boilers in from the manufacturer in Poland.

A somewhat different scenario.

Part of the problem here is plumbers and their lacklustre attitude to customer service.

It's ridiculous.

And if this is peak boiler season - you'd expect the boiler manufacturers to step up and crank up supply chains to the max and accordingly ensure supply chains are running on minimum time lags from customer order to arrival.

odyssey06

Fol20 wrote: »

You would actually be surprised. Because of legislation, tenants will actually get first dibs on jobs to be done with me. When your talking from inexperience of how tradesmen operate and incorrect expections for jobs, you can correct know how it works. Any home owner that has experienced replacing a boiler can tell you first hand that its not something that you can just pop in an replace within a few days. Sure since any good tradesmen will have several jobs always lined up its very dofficult to get them to come out in our current climate.

If it can't be replaced in a few days, even more reason why the landlord should be providing tenant with backup heating options at the landlord's expense.
It's not a 24 hour situation, it's a situation that could take weeks to resolve.

Macha

Aminah Delightful Stomach wrote: »

People really aren’t getting it, there is no way you will get a boiler replaced in 3-5 days it just won’t happen. People can claim all these rules but it just will not be possible for the reasons I’ve outlined in my post and that’s even leaving Christmas out of the equation which will add even more time to it.

I won't engage with the Threshold-bashing debate anymore.

If the landlord can't getthe boiler fixed within a few days, it should be her obligation to put in place measures to help in the meantime.

I live in Belgium and I was without hot water for space heating/water heating for over a week. I paid half rent for that month.

Fol20

odyssey06 wrote: »

If it can't be replaced in a few days, even more reason why the landlord should be providing tenant with backup heating options at the landlord's expense.
It's not a 24 hour situation, it's a situation that could take weeks to resolve.

I asked the question before if we are required to provide a temporary solution while its being repaired. Im still genuinely unsure if its mandatory or just something some ll would provide in the form of electric rads etc

odyssey06

Thoie wrote: »

Our boiler broke down this time of year a few years ago, in our own house. We'd have loved some kind of Christmas miracle that enabled us to get it sorted in 3 days, but that's not real life. What we did in our own house was light the fire, kept all the doors closed and wore a lot of clothes. As Cazale said, it wasn't fun, but it wasn't like we just sat on our arses vaguely hoping the heating would get fixed. We rang around everywhere, but it still took weeks. So yes, I suspect the landlord would sit around with no central heating in their own house, as they're not miracle workers.

I didn't say anything about central heating. Plug in heaters should be provided by the landlord OR if the landlord's alternative suggestion is to light a fire, the landlord should be getting a sweep out pronto to make sure the fire is OK. Who knows when that chimney was last swept or checked out or a fire was last lit in it.

L1011

Baby01032012 wrote: »

But Graces7 works for Threshold

Speculation about (or simply making up) other posters identities is not allowed across boards.ie

Fian

Honestly there is a heavy sense of entitlement on this thread.

If you owned your own home and your boiler broke you would have to put up with the delay while it is being fixed/replaced. That's life.

Being a tenant doesn't make the realities of life go away and you are not entitled to expect miracles.

If you owned your own home and were replacing a boiler and you were faced with a choice between e.g. ordering a boiler from Poland and waiting a few weeks over christmas or calling an emergency service that could replace the boiler overnight but at a cost of €10,000 you would take the cheaper / normal option. Some people here seem to think that the landord should choose the €10k option because he is a landlord. Landlord is dealing with it as he/she would if they were fixing a boiler in their own home.

By the way I have no idea if there is an emergency overnight service available out there, I doubt it, but the bottom line is the landlord has sent round a plumber, ordered a replacement boiler and can do anything about the time it is going to take to get a replacement and a plumber to install it.

I replaced a boiler in my own home last year. It took a few weeks. We used electric heaters and fortunately we had an immersion to generate hot water. Not having hot water is a pain in the arse and I understand why the OP is frustrated, but bottom line - that's life, sometimes it sucks and then you have to suck it up, the landlord can't work miracles and s/he is addressing the issue.

10pennymixup

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not expecting that. But you know, if the boiler broke in the landlord's house, do you think he would just sit there with no heat or water? Whatever he would be doing in his own house, that's what he should be doing for the rental property as an alternative while he remedies the situation long term.

The LL wouldn't have much choice, other than electric heaters.

All that he should be doing is that which they are legally required to do. Especially with a tenant that has them in with the RTB in the new year, refusing an inspection, telling them to fit a switch nearer the hot water cylinder for an immersion that doesn't exist, demanding the LL source another boiler in Ireland and fit it to the tune of 3/4k when it may only need a €50 part from Europe, wanting to report them to the Gardaí for endangering their family etc.

Old diesel wrote: »

The problem with ordering from Poland is the perception that someone just went online and ordered one from a Polish Supplier.

I mean that's what I thought happened from the OP.

What could also happen is that the Irish boiler supplier might be getting the boilers in from the manufacturer in Poland.

A somewhat different scenario.

Part of the problem here is plumbers and their lacklustre attitude to customer service.

It's ridiculous.

And if this is peak boiler season - you'd expect the boiler manufacturers to step up and crank up supply chains to the max and accordingly ensure supply chains are running on minimum time lags from customer order to arrival.

Baxi are manufctured in the UK. I have no idea why they LL/ plumber has gone to Poland. All that I can suggest is that the OPs model being an older one, the part to fix might only be sourced via Poland (Baxi are very big on the contenient/ former Soviet bloc under different names).

Supposition though, could also be the LL/ plumber is Polish and their brother is picking it up in the local DIY. These assumptions are just as sensible as the conclusion of Poland means cheapo LL, that others (not Old D) seem to automatically jump to, including the OP.

And if I'm wrong on the following I will be glad to be corrected. The OP said the plumber said new boiler, the OP said LL wants a part. It's the OP that wants the LL to fit a new boiler from Ireland (to the tune of thousands) now rather than wait from whatever is on order from Europe.

Macha

Fian wrote: »

Honestly there is a heavy sense of entitlement on this thread.

If you owned your own home and your boiler broke you would have to put up with the delay while it is being fixed/replaced. That's life.

Being a tenant doesn't make the realities of life go away and you are not entitled to expect miracles.

Yes...as a tenant you are paying for a service and you are entitled to receive that service...

There is an extremely bizarre attitude in Ireland around the relationship between tenants and landlords that doesn't exist in any other market. If you were renting a car and it broke, you'd be on the phone to the company in question straight away. I have rented in Belgium, Norway and the US and Ireland is the only place I've found where tenants asking for things like being able to heat your home and water in the winter is considered being entitled.

I don't think people are asking for miracles but there are such things as emergency plumbing services and mitigating measures the landlord can put in place, eg space heaters etc. But if I were without heating for more than a few days, especially in winter, I'd be asking for a reduced rent. That's what I did in Belgium, and that's what I got - and it was the summer.

Fol20

Macha wrote: »

Yes...as a tenant you are paying for a service and you are entitled to receive that service...

There is an extremely bizarre attitude in Ireland around the relationship between tenants and landlords that doesn't exist in any other market. If you were renting a car and it broke, you'd be on the phone to the company in question straight away. I have rented in Belgium, Norway and the US and Ireland is the only place I've found where tenants asking for things like being able to heat your home and water in the winter is considered being entitled.

I don't think people are asking for miracles but there are such things as emergency plumbing services and mitigating measures the landlord can put in place, eg space heaters etc. But if I were without heating for more than a few days, especially in winter, I'd be asking for a reduced rent. That's what I did in Belgium, and that's what I got - and it was the summer.

The ll is performing their duties as it is being actioned however it takes time. Its not like the ll is fobbing him, not showing up to inspect. Its unfortunate that its around xmas but thats life sure.

What steps here have the ll not obeyed?

Another poster pointed out many disputes the tenant is having with the ll. This wouldnt exactly instill any good will between the two. Why would the ll go above and beyond whats expected of him for a overly demanding tenant? As long as the ll is obeying the law which it sounds like he is, it doesnt have to be fair, its the way it is.

If the tenant is asking for a reduced rent, i would just give them my own cheapo heaters but still seek full payment as a form of hear is still supplied and further protects my liability.

Im not familiar with the belgium market but i dont know how you could get reduced rent in the summer when you wouldnt need to heat the place to begin with.

bleary

To the op ,good for you caring for your mum and brother . You seem very annoyed with your landlord. I can understand that. It is a bad time of year for this to happen but there is little productive in anger at this stage. Nothing the guards can do and limited options for landlord too.
Focus on keeping yourself and your family well. Hot drinks ,layers, open fire and additional heating, even hot water bottles .
Ask the landlord if they can supply heaters and maybe reduce rent to help with additional bills. At least the weather is mild but renting or owning a house not a great time to be without heat.
Also may be contact Vincent de Paul if you are really struggling

the_syco

Macha wrote: »

I have rented in Belgium, Norway and the US and Ireland is the only place I've found where tenants asking for things like being able to heat your home and water in the winter is considered being entitled.

I think the "entitlement" backlash is because the OP seems to think that the boiler should be replaced the same day over xmas.

Macha

Macha wrote: »

Yes...as a tenant you are paying for a service and you are entitled to receive that service...

There is an extremely bizarre attitude in Ireland around the relationship between tenants and landlords that doesn't exist in any other market. If you were renting a car and it broke, you'd be on the phone to the company in question straight away. I have rented in Belgium, Norway and the US and Ireland is the only place I've found where tenants asking for things like being able to heat your home and water in the winter is considered being entitled.

I don't think people are asking for miracles but there are such things as emergency plumbing services and mitigating measures the landlord can put in place, eg space heaters etc. But if I were without heating for more than a few days, especially in winter, I'd be asking for a reduced rent. That's what I did in Belgium, and that's what I got - and it was the summer.

If they owned their own home they would organise a plumber and in the mean time make alternate arrangements for heat, be that heaters etc. That's not up for debate.

The point people are making is if you are a tenant the LL is responsible for fixing the problem but why should he have to provide alternatives, pay extra electricity bills or pay for coal etc? A tenant is not a child and a LL should not be responsible for sorting every little thing for a tenant.

I have no idea why you should get away with paying half rent if you are without hot water once the LL is doing his best to sort it, if you were an owner you wouldn't get away with paying half your mortgage just because you had no hot water. Its typical of the massive entitlement from tenants nowadays and plays into why LL's are getting out of the business.

If you asked me for reduced rent for a situation out of my control like sorting an issue that takes time I'd most likely look at getting you out at the fist possible opportunity as it would raise a flag with me.

Macha

Macha wrote: »

I don't think people are asking for miracles but there are such things as emergency plumbing services and mitigating measures the landlord can put in place, eg space heaters etc. But if I were without heating for more than a few days, especially in winter, I'd be asking for a reduced rent. That's what I did in Belgium, and that's what I got - and it was the summer.

Emergency plumbing, fixing a leak, replacing a tap etc. is one thing. Finding an RGII plumber to source and install a heater edit: Boiler less than a week before Christmas is quite another.

Here's an idea, OP. You go ahead and see if you can find somebody willing to do it. If you can, for a reasonable price, then contact your landlord and say here's an option I've found.......why don't you go with him or else I'll pay him and reduce the rent accordingly.

Macha

the_syco wrote: »

I think the "entitlement" backlash is because the OP seems to think that the boiler should be replaced the same day over xmas.

I didn't see anywhere the OP said they expected it to be done in one day.

odyssey06

Aminah Delightful Stomach wrote: »

I have no idea why you should get away with paying half rent if you are without hot water once the LL is doing his best to sort it, if you were an owner you wouldn't get away with paying half your mortgage just because you had no hot water. Its typical of the massive entitlement from tenants nowadays and plays into why LL's are getting out of the business.

Of course you wouldn't. Why on earth would your mortgage provider have anything to do with your central heating?

In the OP's scenario, it is the landlord's boiler that broke down in the landlord's property and the OP is paying the landlord for a property that comes with heating & hot water. The landlord wouldn't be able to rent the property legally without hot water.

If landlord's aren't prepared for what comes with operating a business then we're all better off if they clear off out of it and sell the property on to an owner occupied, or a landlord that will approach it like a business. Doing his best is not good enough when you are running a business! If your best isn't quick enough, you need to come up with alternatives in the property for heating & hot water.

Macha

Aminah Delightful Stomach wrote: »

If they owned their own home they would organise a plumber and in the mean time make alternate arrangements for heat, be that heaters etc. That's not up for debate.

The point people are making is if you are a tenant the LL is responsible for fixing the problem but why should he have to provide alternatives, pay extra electricity bills or pay for coal etc? A tenant is not a child and a LL should not be responsible for sorting every little thing for a tenant.

I have no idea why you should get away with paying half rent if you are without hot water once the LL is doing his best to sort it, if you were an owner you wouldn't get away with paying half your mortgage just because you had no hot water. Its typical of the massive entitlement from tenants nowadays and plays into why LL's are getting out of the business.

If you asked me for reduced rent for a situation out of my control like sorting an issue that takes time I'd most likely look at getting you out at the fist possible opportunity as it would raise a flag with me.

Comparisons with being an owner make no sense to me. And paying a mortgage is in no way comparable to paying rent, which is paying for the service of having access to a liveable property.

It is cold comfort (pun intended) to be told the LL is doing their best and really is nothing to do with the tenant. We wouldn't expect shoddy service in any other situation where we were purchasing a service or product but for some reason in Ireland tenants are called "entitled" and "children" if they ask a functioning boiler to be repaired within a few days.

And actually, yes, the LL is responsible for providing a property with a functioning system for heating space and water so if the current one breaks and it takes an unreasonable amount of time to fix it, I think they should provide alternatives. Why should the tenant incur the inconvenience of this situation AND be out of pocket buying space heaters and the like?

As for you trying to get me out ASAP, this is exactly the kind of bizarre attitude towards Irish tenants I'm talkng about. Here, my Belgian landlord acknowledged that it was extremely inconvenient for my flatmate and me to have no hot water, acknowledgef that it took him too long to fix it and we agreed to lower the rent for one month. Why this sort of situation should lead to the landlord considering me unreasonably and wanting me to leave the property is entirely beyond me. Irish landlords wouldn't survive in European rental markets with no supply issues with this sort of attitude.