Gatwick closed (mod note post 1)

dresden8

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Maybe the media have been asked to tone down the coverage a wee bit, y'know, to avoid encouraging copycats. I'd imagine police have put a cordon around the exterior public access roads too, probably limiting chances of any pics/vids of the drones.

Whatever this is, copycats are the real danger now.

BZ

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Maybe the media have been asked to tone down the coverage a wee bit, y'know, to avoid encouraging copycats. I'd imagine police have put a cordon around the exterior public access roads too, probably limiting chances of any pics/vids of the drones.

Ive been watching sky news coverage of the events throughout the day and believe me they are definitely not toning things down. Experts coming out of the woodwork, theories and mentions of Isis using these in Syria to blow up fuel depots. If Sky were asked to tone down coverage Kay Burley must of binned that memo.

Itssoeasy

BZ wrote: »

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Maybe the media have been asked to tone down the coverage a wee bit, y'know, to avoid encouraging copycats. I'd imagine police have put a cordon around the exterior public access roads too, probably limiting chances of any pics/vids of the drones.

Ive been watching sky news coverage of the events throughout the day and believe me they are definitely not toning things down. Experts coming out of the woodwork, theories and mentions of Isis using these in Syria to blow up fuel depots. If Sky were asked to tone down coverage Kay Burley must of binned that memo.

Ah sure kay works to her own drum. Sky may have been asked to do that but your right kay burley wouldn't listen to them. Was she doing a live broadcast from Gatwick btw ?

ted1

Any connection with LHR issues ? Coincidence or something else ?

BZ

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Ah sure kay works to her own drum. Sky may have been asked to do that but your right kay burley wouldn't listen to them. Was she doing a live broadcast from Gatwick btw ?

Just using Kay as an example. In general they are just sensationalising the whole situation. I understand this is serious as someone who works in aviation but still mentioning Isis in reports, asking the airport are they going to passengers compensation it's unrealistic.

Kermit.de.frog

Anyone else think we are not getting the full story here?

EdgeCase

Either we're not getting the full story are they are remarkably less competent than I thought.

Closing a major international airport for over a day due to drone/s trolling them is just bizarre stuff.

Under His Eye

I suspect a D notice has been issued.

artanevilla

This is approaching the realms of bizarre at this stage.

Kermit.de.frog

EdgeCase wrote: »

drone/s trolling them is just bizarre stuff.

I know people are reluctant to say it but...

Russian trolling?

Sounds bizarre but it's becoming harder to believe that this might be just an idiot with a few drones.

Pretzill

It is a little bizarre - also you would think there would be more sightings or hearings drones are noisy little ****ers - so one drone is going in and out of a neighbourhood/estate/ area all day for recharging and the authorities can't track it?

I have no doubt Gatwick has been closed for public safety - is it drones?

artanevilla

Surely the economic cost of the closure of the airport at this stage has far surpassed the economic cost of both the potential payoff to anyone hit by a stray bullet plus the social payoff the government would have to pay in the frankly highly unlikely event of someone being killed by a stray bullet.

The history of our own country should be enough to dismiss the fact that the British state aren’t afraid of killing their own citizens, let alone a Brazilian electrician.

ED E

Pretzill wrote: »

It is a little bizarre - also you would think there would be more sightings or hearings drones are noisy little ****ers - so one drone is going in and out of a neighbourhood/estate/ area all day for recharging and the authorities can't track it?

Look at google maps there. Acres of farmland to depart from.

Oscar Bravo

An easyJet A320(G-EZUP) just ran a taxi test at Gatwick about 11pm, but no drone came out to play.

Ninthlife

Is it more than just drones being disruptive or are they being used as surveillance tool of the airport and its contingency plans etc

Close an entire airport 3 days, no one knows where theg are originating from or who could be controlling them

Really is bizarre

Cazale

Probably not related but there are reports of suspicious activity at Stuttgart and Charles de Gaulle airports. German police are searching for four people seen taking photos in Stuttgart airport.

Atlantic Dawn

What's the average flight time on a drone? I thought you were talking 20 minutes max, surely should be requiring charge by now?

Cazale

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

What's the average flight time on a drone? I thought you were talking 20 minutes max, surely should be requiring charge by now?

They think they are landing somewhere and recharging.

Ninthlife

Ninthlife wrote: »

Apart from my aliens theory which shouldnt be dismissed just yet could some more knowledgabe people confirm could the signal being used to control the drone not be jammed causing it to crash??

If it is being controlled by R/C then the signal can be jammed or spoofed. Depending on the sophistication of the attacker, jamming it might cause it to return to base or self-destruct (ie crash). You can also triangulate the control signal very easily.

More likely (due to the longevity of the attack) it is not being radio-controlled, it is flying a pre-programmed route via GPS. The pilot sets it off and it does its thing without further input, then flies to a programmed end point. GPS can also be spoofed, and that is certainly a capability the brits have. If the drone is programmed to fly a route at 500ft then you trick it into thinking it is currently at 1100 and it descends, eventually crashing into the ground.

However GPS spoofing is not something to be used lightly in the vicinity of an airport because it's a very broad measure...which might explain the groundings and the slow response. Probably all kinds of red tape before the army can deploy a GPS spoofer.

If the attacker is really, really sophisticated the drone could be flying a route using cameras and terrain mapping rather than GPS. Jamming this is effectively impossible.

EdgeCase

Unless it's a very sophisticated military drone and it's being controlled by unusual radio frequencies to satellite or something.

Did they kill the 4G mobile networks in Gatwick too?

It's very feasible to control a drone over 4G.

Ninthlife

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it is being controlled by R/C then the signal can be jammed or spoofed. Depending on the sophistication of the attacker, jamming it might cause it to return to base or self-destruct (ie crash). You can also triangulate the control signal very easily.

More likely (due to the longevity of the attack) it is not being radio-controlled, it is flying a pre-programmed route via GPS. The pilot sets it off and it does its thing without further input, then flies to a programmed end point. GPS can also be spoofed, and that is certainly a capability the brits have. If the drone is programmed to fly a route at 500ft then you trick it into thinking it is currently at 1100 and it descends, eventually crashing into the ground.

However GPS spoofing is not something to be used lightly in the vicinity of an airport because it's a very broad measure...which might explain the groundings and the slow response. Probably all kinds of red tape before the army can deploy a GPS spoofer.

If the attacker is really, really sophisticated the drone could be flying a route using cameras and terrain mapping rather than GPS. Jamming this is effectively impossible.

So technically I could have 50 drones all lined up pre programmed to fly a certain route and land in a designated end point and put a timer on each drone to start its flight?

mickmackey1

No pics? No footage? I'm no conspiracy theorist but this is total BS.

ED E

Ninthlife wrote: »

So technically I could have 50 drones all lined up pre programmed to fly a certain route and land in a designated end point and put a timer on each drone to start its flight?

Yep.

And they could all start and end in different places. If reports are true then they're probably being triggered as soon as ATC begin movements again vs timed.

Its trivial to listen to ATC so the culprits would know what they're doing even if the police radio is somewhat safe from them.

embraer170

This is all very strange.

If we exclude repeated ATC strikes, this must be the single largest disruption to the European aviation system since Eyjafjallajökull in 2010.

I also see the discussion topic on PPRUNE has been locked until tomorrow morning.

jasper100

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

An easyJet A320(G-EZUP) just ran a taxi test at Gatwick about 11pm, but no drone came out to play.

If it was me id be packing my bags by now and heading to Stansted or LHR next. The police must be closing in on the source.

ED E

sugarman wrote: »

On a consumer drone, yeah.. but military spec drones can last hours / days.

...When I say military I mean something like a small surveillance drone similar in appearance to your regular consumer just precision built, and not a war machine ready to take out an Iraqi village.

Anything approaching an hour would be a fixed wing not a quad and rather a lot easier to spot and disable.

EdgeCase

I would assume that you could track a drone using portable military radar if you had to ?

I mean, I am sure the RAF must have facilities like that available to them.

Jeff2

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What's the average flight time on a drone? I thought you were talking 20 minutes max, surely should be requiring charge by now?

A D at least read some of the thread before posting.

Ninthlife

ED E wrote: »

Yep.

And they could all start and end in different places. If reports are true then they're probably being triggered as soon as ATC begin movements again vs timed.

Its trivial to listen to ATC so the culprits would know what they're doing even if the police radio is somewhat safe from them.

Its so simple its kind of genius..

ED E

EdgeCase wrote: »

I would assume that you could track a drone using portable military radar if you had to ?

I mean, I am sure the RAF must have facilities like that available to them.

An Inspire weighs 3.3KG and produces feck all heat. The smallest thing the MoD would care to track would be incoming AAM like a sidewinder which is 85KG and produces a plume of fire out its arse.

This drone is to their radar as is a fly to the headlights of your car. A speck.