Employer forcing me to work over Christmas

ZX7R

shanno66 wrote: »

As long as you have a psa licence you will never be out of work in security. You only have to check jobs.ie or indeed to see every company is hiring all the time. They just dont get rid of people that easy because its hard to replace them. Id be shocked if op was out of work for more than a week if they did let her go which they wouldnt anyways imo.

Yes she get work with a **** security company, the more reputable security companies are definitely tightening up on there recruitment.

shanno66

ZX7R wrote: »

Yes she get work with a **** security company, the more reputable security companies are definitely tightening up on there recruitment.

She already works for a **** company. And tbh theres very few good ones out there. Iv'e been in the industry for 11 years,most of the companys are the same well the ones in the retail, static and corporate side of it.

ZX7R

shanno66 wrote: »

She already works for a **** company. And tbh theres very few good ones out there. Iv'e been in the industry for 11 years,most of the companys are the same well the ones in the retail, static and corporate side of it.

I've been in and out of security for a similar length of time and agree with you , thank god the company I am with is one of the good ones but things are changing and especially on the client's end of contracts they are demanding a much higher standard and hopefully will improve all aspects of security for all employees

JazzJaquzzi

Ask yourself OP - what would the company do if the roles were reversed. Well, they'd do what's best for them for sure.

Take the day sick - tell the company in advance that this situation is making you really stressed, so that they have a chance to plan in advance. Tell them that it's on your mind constantly, and you are worried about working on that day, as this is too much conflict between work and family, and you are afraid of burning out. Tell them that you are concerned that you will not be able to respond to work situations correctly, as you are worried about your mum. Go to a doctor and discuss this.

That is stress. That is the reason people get signed off for stress. If your company doesn't have a backup plan - that's their responsibility to sort out.

I say this as somebody who would drag myself into work with two broken legs, but, there are many jobs. There's only one mum.

Wish you a happy Christmas.

pinching myself here and checking that this was posted in "work and jobs" and not after hours

the company isnt forcing anyone to work. they're paying them to.

christmas and other shifts are known quantities and no doubt well contracted for under the usual arrangements

asking for annual leave is not "telling the company your plans"

the advice in the thread telling the OP to pull a sickie, its their fault, you'll be grand is very poor advice and very poor form.

shanno66

ZX7R wrote: »

I've been in and out of security for a similar length of time and agree with you , thank god the company I am with is one of the good ones but things are changing and especially on the client's end of contracts they are demanding a much higher standard and hopefully will improve all aspects of security for all employees

Spot on mate. These tech giants are demanding a much higher quality of guards and a couple of companys are providing extremely good training to staff.but the supply just cant meet the demand

theres still alot of companys that have alot to catch up on and theres only a limited number of people licenced so they tend to not let people go as much as other jobs.

Anyways gl with whatever you do op

splinter65

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

I think its time and a third, im not too sure.


Its a little bix toxic to be honest but I need this job

Christmas Day and Stephens day are double time by law

Teddy Daniels

splinter65 wrote: »

Christmas Day and Stephens day are double time by law

Nope
You get a day off anyanys and you get paid for the day so it’s double pay but All full time will get paid for Christmas Day without working so it’s only single time

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

and a third

f**k that

is that even legal?

No it’s not double time or an extra days A/L is the law

Dakota Dan

cruizer101 wrote: »

What sort of work do you do, it is very uncommon to have to work christmas day, outside of emergency services.

I’ll tell my dairy cows that Christmas Day maybe they’ll understand.

splinter65

OP you’ll get Carers Benefit from the DSP if you decide to go home and look after your mam for a while.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_benefit.html
You can take it for as little as 6 weeks or as much as 104 weeks. Your employer has to agree unless he can prove that he can’t operate without you and you have to bereturned to your previous position after.

ZX7R

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s not double time or an extra days A/L is the law

Only if you work It I believe.

Where I work Christmas day ,st Stevens day and new year Eve night are all triple pay + you get Sunday rate added and dubble holiday hours.

Markcheese

cruizer101 wrote: »

What sort of work do you do, it is very uncommon to have to work christmas day, outside of emergency services.
And normally it should be timetabled well in advance so it is clear.
That said it is just a public holiday so your entitlements are the same as for others.

On a Public Holiday All workers are entitled to one of these :
A paid day off on the public holiday
An additional day of annual leave
An additional day’s pay
A paid day off within a month of the public holiday

Sounds like a crappy place to work mind I'd be looking for something else.

There is something in the regs about notice of working for public holidays... Might be worth checking out..

Heckler

Not saying a Doctor will lie but getting a sick note from a doctor is easier than getting candy from a baby.

Oh my back is wrecked/intense migraines (can't be disproved even with x-rays etc)..........Sick note. Week off.

The stress and effect on my mental health Doctor......Sick note. Week off.

Pull any kind of stress/mental anguish stroke and a doctor will sign off in a heartbeat and most companies won't touch you what with all their "Mental Health Awareness Week", "Reach out and Talk", "You're not alone" programs going on.

Not advocating taking advantage of any of the above in falsehood but the options are there. I've never done any of the above but know plenty who have. The bad back is a classic.

I went through a very stressful period in my work and was on the verge of quitting. Working long days, getting no sleep worrying about what had to be done the next day etc. Now it smoothed out eventually and all is fine but if the same thing happened again I'd have no problem going to the Doc and getting a sick note for absence due to stress.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Wesser wrote: »

It's not fair to expect your GP to write a sick cert for you if you are not sick.
For those of you saying just get a sick note....i think t it is presumptuous of you to assume that your GP would write a sick cert if you are not sick.

I can confirm from a folly of my youth that it’s very wrong to assume that a doctor will give you a sick note if you aren’t sick. Any ethical doctor won’t be comfortable with the idea.

weetiepie

seamus wrote: »

This. Jobs come and go. Family are more important than money.

Let's get morbid for a second OP, I apologise in advance;

If things were to turn out for the worst next year, would you rather remember that you stayed in Dublin over Xmas in order to keep your job, or that you told your job to stuff it so that you could home and spend Xmas with your mother?

You already know the answer to this, I'm just trying to put it in perspective. You don't need this job that much.

You tell your boss, "I am going home on Sunday night and I'll be back in work next Thursday". He can't physically force you to stay, so just do it.

This!!!! I 1000% agree with...life is too precious and too short

Thoie

For all the people saying "get a sick note", that's all very well and good, but what if the company ask her to attend a doctor of their choosing (which they can do), and then she has to admit she's at the other end of the country and can't get to that doctor for 2 or 3 days?

Mikefitzs

I can emphatise with you but at the end of the day this is part and parcel of your chosen career, if you want to keep your job just go to work or don't go and get a new job. I hope things improve for you no matter.

the_syco

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

I work in Security, the site im on has to be manned 24/7.
Ive already used all my holidays plus a few unpaid days & a couple days of force Majeure leave, I pretty much have nothing left to take off and thats what their saying

Why didn't you book one of those days off for xmas?

Also, if you have used up all of your holidays, what did you intend on doing for xmas? Taking an unpaid day off when those with holidays booked it off for holiday?

Elmo wrote: »

That is strange, a retention policy of only 3 months. Have you asked IT can you get a copy?

Fairly standard, to stop emails taking up too much space. Usually you to set a folder as 12/24/36 months to save stuff that you need to save.

Elmo wrote: »

I hate to say this and I would never do this but call in sick and get a doctors note.

Having already asked for the day off, this is not a good idea.

Elmo wrote: »

From what I can see the OP did plan and asked for the time off.

Asked for it off, didn't get it off. Used up all her leave, and now tries emotional blackmail to get it off.

idnkph wrote: »

Why oh why would anyone answer their phone to their employer on Xmas day?!

Most likely reason; it's in their contract. If one of the plebs calls in sick, the supervisor has to come in. Joys of leadership.

idnkph wrote: »

And the doctor doesn't have to lie just sign a piece of paper for the OP.

Some doctors will sign anything, some doctors won't.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

That is the companies fault.

It's the companies fault that she has already taken all of her holidays?

WoolyJumper wrote: »

No one needs to be working on Christmas day unless you work for emergency/essential services.

Crime doesn't sleep. Thus security is needed at certain locations 24/7.

shanno66 wrote: »

Lol lose her job ? In security ? Not a chance would she lose her job. Companies cant keep there staff at the moment and no one gets the sack for refusing a shift. Even at christmas !

In a job where you need to be able to depend on your employees, you won't employ an employee that will decide to not show up on days that they're rostered to do so.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

But why should it be her? Why does she have to be the one to make the sacrifice?

Because everyone else had holidays left to take it off. OP may have booked it off, but OP may have already gotten her company to ignore the request, so she could've taken another day off previously.

=-=

OP; if you want to be with your mum, quit the job. Calling in sick, and turning your phone off will mean that you won't get a good reference, and you may find it difficult to get work again in the security industry.

Especially if what you say below is true;

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

this company is "Irelands largest employer" in this particular work field

fordyjames

Work isn't everything OP. I worked 120 Kms from home and only saw a dying parent the weekends. Worst young immature stupid mistake of my life, fresh out of college.

If you have debts screw them, nothing more important than family. What's the worst that can happen. A couple of threating letters and your debts reduced.

Don't make the same mistakes as I did

sbsquarepants

salmocab wrote: »

Also if I was off Christmas Day and one of the lads I worked with pulled a stunt and I had to work he’d bloody regret it afterwards.

Well, if it was me who pulled the stunt because I needed time off to spend with my seriously ill mother, you'd be well advised to suck it up and get on with things.
Your whining about missing your sprouts would not be well received, you can be sure of that!

mad m

OP,

Where abouts in country is your mam living?

Seeing as its christmas Ill offer to pick you up on christmas day and drop you to work.

Masala

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well, if it was me who pulled the stunt because I needed time off to spend with my seriously ill mother, you'd be well advised to suck it up and get on with things.
Your whining about missing your sprouts would not be well received, you can be sure of that!

... when I am off ... my phone is off. Chances of me answering a call from work on Christmas Day would be NIL. I have my priorities with my family and if he pulls a sickie- I'm not giving up my family time fir him. He can deal with tge ****storm that comes down the line when no one can be found to cover.

sbsquarepants

Masala wrote: »

... when I am off ... my phone is off. Chances of me answering a call from work on Christmas Day would be NIL. I have my priorities with my family and if he pulls a sickie- I'm not giving up my family time fir him. He can deal with tge ****storm that comes down the line when no one can be found to cover.

I'm the same.

I don't answer work calls outside of work full stop - bar the very odd occasion when I've specifically asked someone to ring me, but we'd be talking once every couple of months at best.

Weekends, holidays etc, they can fúck right off, I don't care if the place is on fire, ring 999, I just don't care.

Mikefitzs

BTW did you ask anyone to swap shifts with you?

A Shaved Duck?

Having had 2 parents go through terminal illnesses the only advice i can give is go spend time with your mother, nothing else matters.

Jobs come and go, Bosses get annoyed..its all irrelevant.

facehugger99

Just tell them you won't be in a position to work over Christmas.

Don't go into details or explanations - one line and leave it at that.

Fcuk them - family is more important than any job.

qxtasybe1nwfh2

Did you work Christmas day last year OP?

Mrs OBumble

Re-read the OP: the mother has cancer, it's not described as terminal.

I'm sure the mother could find a friend or neighbour to have dinner with.

weldoninhio

Elmo wrote: »

From what I can see the OP did plan and asked for the time off.

If you are on sick cover and end up sick, the company would have to deal with that also, but if you were the OP and need time off and knew but opted for on-call cover you'd be in the wrong to think you won't be called in.

If you are annual leave as I said, you don't pick up the phone from work, your on annual leave, let the on-call person deal with that.

The OP doesn't NEED time off though, she WANTS time off.

Mr.H

fordyjames wrote:

If you have debts screw them, nothing more important than family. What's the worst that can happen. A couple of threating letters and your debts reduced.

Wow

Hard times suck but if you have responsibilities this is the worst advice. This is the attitude that has destroyed the country.

Suck it up op. You have a job. Do it.

If you dont like it then look for a new job.

I hate people who just decide to go on the dole just because their job makes them work. Ffs snowflake generation doesnt even cover it

IrishGirl18

Mr.H wrote: »

I hate people who just decide to go on the dole just because their job makes them work. Ffs snowflake generation doesnt even cover it

Who mentioned anything about going on the dole ?

Cocobeans101

I'm sorry you have to work IrishGirl but it's your scheduled shift and that's life. The 25th is only a date. Take your next day off and pretend it's Christmas with your Mam. Have the whole Christmas dinner and presents on the Saturday. It's being with your mam that counts not the date.

I understand you're upset but don't call in sick. It's really unfair on your teammates. So many people have very sick relatives, you just don't know what's going on in a workmate's life.

Hope your Mam recovers soon.

whatlliwear

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Having had 2 parents go through terminal illnesses the only advice i can give is go spend time with your mother, nothing else matters.

Jobs come and go, Bosses get annoyed..its all irrelevant.

I am in absolute agreement with this. You only have 1 mother.

Mr.H

IrishGirl18 wrote:

Who mentioned anything about going on the dole ?

Loads of people in this thread when saying jobs come and go. Fact is if you dont go to work you will likely be on your way to newjobland. If you cant get a job then its doleworld.

I get it that it sucks. But there is no Devine right to be off any day regardless of people misunderstanding the legalities.

If you dont like it i would suggest not being stuck in this question next year and have a new job by then.

Even the title of the thread is a little immature dont you think? Employer is forcing me to work........ no they arent. They are expecting you to work your regular shift.

Guffy

Gael23 wrote: »

I know a girl working in a nursing home and they get double time on Christmas Day

To get double time she'd want to be getting 3 times what she gets if she didn't work.

Everyone gets paid for bankholidays. If she is getting paid what she normally does plus what she would be getting anyway its not really double time

splinter65

Guffy wrote: »

To get double time she'd want to be getting 3 times what she gets if she didn't work.

Everyone gets paid for bankholidays. If she is getting paid what she normally does plus what she would be getting anyway its not really double time

None of this makes sense.
If you work on a public holiday in Ireland (say Christmas Day and Stephens day in this case) then by law you are entitled to double pay for each of those days or an extra days annual leave for each of those days or just an extra day off fully paid for each of those days.
That is the law.
The only condition is that you must have worked a total of at least 40 hours over the previous 5 weeks.

seamusk84

You gotta do what you gotta do unfortunately.

I worked Xmas day a few years ago. Sucks but I just drew the short straw. Worked 12 until 10pm.

On the positive side you will find at 5 and have the rest of the day for yourself.

PhoenixParker

I would consider carefully that your employer has been fairly flexible to date with the time off you've needed due to your family commitments.

Yes you can probably call in sick or quit but a new employer is unlikely to be as accommodating if you're on probation.

Find some friends or family for your mom to do Christmas day with and do it yourself with her the day after.

Jim2007

Given your mother’s circumstances, it is very hard to imagine the she will be alone on Christmas Day, surely some members of her extended family will come to the rescue. What does your mother say about all of this?

As you say your mother lives down the country, so you are not just looking for Christmas Day off, but in fact several days off, even though you have already used up your holiday entitlement and then some.

At your company, you are in a supervisor role so you are someone the company holds in high regard and expects to be able to rely on you. The company seems to have fully met all it’s obligations towards you:
- You have had your holiday entertainment
- You have had additional days off
- The company has tried to accommodate your request to be rescheduled but were unable to do so
And now it seems you expect them to deny the same rights to someone of your colleagues so you can be at home with Mammy...

At the end of the day it is a question of character, are you a responsible adult who honors their commitments or not. Now you can call in sick for a couple of days if you want, but in the circumstances everyone will have a pretty good idea of what you are up to and reach their on conclusions as to your character. The reputation you build is up to you.

oceanman

you have to do what is best for you, go spend Christmas with your mum. everybody should have some loyalty to their employer but your situation trumps that loyalty. no matter what company you work for you only a number at the end of the day, if you dropped dead tomorrow you would be replaced and forgotten in the blink of an eye....that's just life

qxtasybe1nwfh2

From what I have experienced, security companies do their best to run on a skeleton staff on what can be quite a busy day for security because of everywhere closing. They are not choosing to stay operating on Christmas day, it's just a con of the job. From your original post, you didn't want to work the day before your mam was diagnosed, no one does but someone has to. If you're not willing to commit to the job, you need to get a new one.

con___manx1

Call in sick worst they can give you is a warning. No big deal.Is it an american company ? They should be sympathetic with your earlier cancer diagnosis. Your boss has no empathy. Absolute dick head.

Doff

Surely you would have known you might have to work Christmas when you took the job? You can call in sick, but best get the CV ready in that scenario.

mr_cochise

con___manx1 wrote:

Call in sick worst they can give you is a warning. No big deal.Is it an american company ? They should be sympathetic with your earlier cancer diagnosis. Your boss has no empathy. Absolute dick head.

Very poor advice!

salmocab

con___manx1 wrote: »

Call in sick worst they can give you is a warning. No big deal.Is it an american company ? They should be sympathetic with your earlier cancer diagnosis. Your boss has no empathy. Absolute dick head.

She doesn’t have cancer her mother does, she’s taken all her holidays, force majeure and a few unpaid days too, it doesn’t sound like the company have done anything wrong by her.

Mr.H

con___manx1 wrote:

Call in sick worst they can give you is a warning. No big deal.Is it an american company ? They should be sympathetic with your earlier cancer diagnosis. Your boss has no empathy. Absolute dick head.

She can be fired. While technically they will have to get her on a few other issues, i have no doubt those issues will arise all of a sudden. Such as expecting to work difficult shifts leading to constructive dismissal. Very easy to do very difficult to prove.

If i was the employer and she didnt show up Christmas, she wouldnt be there long more. Considering what they have done for her it would be a huge sign of disrespect.

As for the boss having no empathy....... you got a bit of growing up to do.

alexmalalex

Here is my take - try to agree a compromise. You work Christmas Eve + Christmas Morning, and you get Christmas afternoon/evening and St. Stephen's Day Off. In return you agree to cover for New Years, or something.

Maybe worth a try...

Eric Cartman

i think the OP has to remember that her colleagues have already had 3 force majeure days plus the full allotment of holidays she took covering for her, their schedules have been up ended for her multiple times this year already. Doing it again on christmas day to somebody is just extremely cruel.

con___manx1

Mr.H wrote: »

She can be fired. While technically they will have to get her on a few other issues, i have no doubt those issues will arise all of a sudden. Such as expecting to work difficult shifts leading to constructive dismissal. Very easy to do very difficult to prove.

If i was the employer and she didnt show up Christmas, she wouldnt be there long more. Considering what they have done for her it would be a huge sign of disrespect.

As for the boss having no empathy....... you got a bit of growing up to do.

She cant be fired for that. If your sick your sick. The op could be honest and just refuse to go in and get a warning either.
What growing up do I have to do ? The ops mother had cancer and she didnt want her mother to be home alone for Christmas. Are you saying the boss isnt a heartless bastard ? The boss let the supervisor thats probly licking the hole off him off for xmas and the op is expected to do there work aswell. I know exactly how these type of establishments work.
If i was the op id take my chances. There are plenty of other jobs in dublin that dont require you to work for christmas and treat you like a person and not a number.
You want to wake up and smell the coffee.