Employer forcing me to work over Christmas

SusieBlue

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Yes perspective. People are calling the OP selfish for wanting spend christmas day with her family. These people needs some perspective on who is being selfish.

Honestly I didnt read through the whole thread so I didn't know it was a security firm. However my point still stands. The company has all year to prepare for christmas and should arrange something that doesn't involve forcing employess to work on what is traditionally that one day a year we spend at home with our family. It is not selfish or unreasonable for anyone to want to have that day off. One such a solution is to get employees to work on a volunteer basis. Make the incentives worthwhile enough that people will volunteer.

It absolutely is selfish because she is forcing someone to forefit spending the day with their loved ones and their families so she can spend the day with hers.

It’s an inconsiderate and nasty thing to do.
I have been the person who was called in, in a previous job, and it spoiled my whole Christmas.

shanno66

SusieBlue wrote: »

If there was an overflow of people crying out to work on Christmas Day OP wouldn’t be in this predicament, because there would be more than enough volunteers available to work the shift.

OP cannot refuse the shift, she has been told she has to work, and I can’t see what she has to gain here by manipulating the situation with her employer.
I don’t know what kind of places you’ve worked but simply telling my boss I’m ‘unavailable’ on a day I’m rostered to work wouldn’t cut it.

It’s not fair to leave other people who will have the day off in the lurch just because she doesn’t want to work. No one wants to work that day.

Op can refuse the shift. Happens all the time and bank holidays is no different. She wouldnt be leaving any one in the lurch as no one would be on call.

The contract manager would need to find some one who wants to work that day for the money or it would be a dropped shift. Dropped shifts happen all the time within the industry and its up to the manager to find the cover.

There strong arming her because it will free up a cover guard for a different site if they can get her to work it.

Op could walk into another security job tomorrow if she needed and probably with better pay and benefits. The company knows this aswell.

It has to be one of the worse industries for companies taking advantage of employees

Also this is one of the largest security company in the country and they employ people solely as cover guards for situations just like this

SusieBlue

shanno66 wrote: »

Op can refuse the shift. Happens all the time and bank holidays is no different. She wouldnt be leaving any one in the lurch as no one would be on call.

The contract manager would need to find some one who wants to work that day for the money or it would be a dropped shift. Dropped shifts happen all the time within the industry and its up to the manager to find the cover.

There strong arming her because it will free up a cover guard for a different site if they can get her to work it.

Op could walk into another security job tomorrow if she needed and probably with better pay and benefits. The company knows this aswell.

It has to be one of the worse industries for companies taking advantage of employees

Once again, If she could refuse the shift that easily with zero repercussions she wouldn’t be in this situation because she could just say no.

She evidently can’t say no without potentially losing her job which is why she finds herself in this predicament.

shanno66

SusieBlue wrote: »

Once again, If she could refuse the shift that easily with zero repercussions she wouldn’t be in this situation because she could just say no.

She evidently can’t say no without potentially losing her job which is why she finds herself in this predicament.

Lol lose her job ? In security ? Not a chance would she lose her job. Companies cant keep there staff at the moment and no one gets the sack for refusing a shift. Even at christmas !

ZX7R

Sorry to hear of your problems op.
But in relation to the facts you have given I don't blame the security from on this one, sounds like they have been fair to you most of the year, you probably used up all holiday hours and all other avenues available to you for time off, but there seems to be plenty of posters here and myself included that work security,but Christmas week and especially Christmas day is the worst time of the year to be In security if you want Christmas off,I tell you now most lads or lady's working with your security company have put in for Christmas holidays since June it's the only way to garntee holidays or time off during this period.
In regards ringing in sick don't you won't have an easy time because of it.
As other poster have stated you would get an job easy in another security firm , don't be so sure of it , things have started to tighten up on misconduct when employing new staff.
Best of luck op and happy Christmas.
P.s I am working a 12 hour shift Christmas day

WoolyJumper

SusieBlue wrote: »

It absolutely is selfish because she is forcing someone to forefit spending the day with their loved ones and their families so she can spend the day with hers.

It’s an inconsiderate and nasty thing to do.
I have been the person who was called in, in a previous job, and it spoiled my whole Christmas.

Nope, again it is the COMPANY that is being selfish. They had all year to prepare and get the staff for christmas who are willing to work christmas. The OP is not forcing anyone to work on christmas and she should not feel guilty if someone is called in her place.

I'm sorry that happened to you in the past but you should have refused. What you are saying is that the OP should suck it up and have her Christmas ruined so no one else has their christmas ruined in her place. But why should it be her? Why does she have to be the one to make the sacrifice? Because she was asked first. She was told to do it? It is equally unfair to her as it is for any employee that is asked in her place. Like you said no one wants to work christmas but just because you weren't the one asked to do it doesn't make fair for the person who was asked.

The only fair way to do it is to get people to volunteer. If no one does then you better give better incentives.

SusieBlue

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Nope, again it is the COMPANY that is being selfish. They had all year to prepare and get the staff for christmas who are willing to work christmas. The OP is not forcing anyone to work on christmas and she should not feel guilty if someone is called in her place.

I'm sorry that happened to you in the past but you should have refused. What you are saying is that the OP should suck it up and have her Christmas ruined so no one else has their christmas ruined in her place. But why should it be her? Why does she have to be the one to make the sacrifice? Because she was asked first. She was told to do it? It is equally unfair to her as it is for any employee that is asked in her place. Like you said no one wants to work christmas but just because you weren't the one asked to do it doesn't make fair for the person who was asked.

The only fair way to do it is to get people to volunteer. If no one does then you better give better incentives.

Yes and as OP stated, there were no volunteers as no one wanted to work.
The fact that no one wants to work isn’t the company’s problem. That’s absolutely unreasonable.
There are plenty of days I don’t want to work but I’m contractually obliged so I have to suck it up.

I think you will find in ANY industry, be it hospitality, retail, medical, security etc. nobody (or at least a very limited insufficient amount of people) wants to work these days so what are companies supposed to do?

OP has no annual leave left and has used up all her force majeur days.
Her colleagues have booked the day off using annual leave.
It isn’t her employers problem that she used up all her holiday leave. It isn’t her colleagues fault that she didn’t book the day off.
It would be incredibly unfair of her to call in sick in these circumstances.

ZX7R

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Nope, again it is the COMPANY that is being selfish. They had all year to prepare and get the staff for christmas who are willing to work christmas. The OP is not forcing anyone to work on christmas and she should not feel guilty if someone is called in her place.

I'm sorry that happened to you in the past but you should have refused. What you are saying is that the OP should suck it up and have her Christmas ruined so no one else has their christmas ruined in her place. But why should it be her? Why does she have to be the one to make the sacrifice? Because she was asked first. She was told to do it? It is equally unfair to her as it is for any employee that is asked in her place. Like you said no one wants to work christmas but just because you weren't the one asked to do it doesn't make fair for the person who was asked.

The only fair way to do it is to get people to volunteer. If no one does then you better give better incentives.

Depends,if her normal duty falls on Christmas Day then she has to do it.

shanno66

ZX7R wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your problems op.
But in relation to the facts you have given I don't blame the security from on this one, sounds like they have been fair to you most of the year, you probably used up all holiday hours and all other avenues available to you for time off, but there seems to be plenty of posters here and myself included that work security,but Christmas week and especially Christmas day is the worst time of the year to be In security if you want Christmas off,I tell you now most lads or lady's working with your security company have put in for Christmas holidays since June it's the only way to garntee holidays or time off during this period.
In regards ringing in sick don't you won't have an easy time because of it.
As other poster have stated you would get an job easy in another security firm , don't be so sure of it , things have started to tighten up on misconduct when employing new staff.
Best of luck op and happy Christmas.
P.s I am working a 12 hour shift Christmas day

As long as you have a psa licence you will never be out of work in security. You only have to check jobs.ie or indeed to see every company is hiring all the time. They just dont get rid of people that easy because its hard to replace them. Id be shocked if op was out of work for more than a week if they did let her go which they wouldnt anyways imo.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

OP do not feel guilty for wanting to spend time with your mum. You owe the employer nothing. In the circumstances, put your mum first. Life's too short to have any sort of regrets down the road.

ZX7R

shanno66 wrote: »

As long as you have a psa licence you will never be out of work in security. You only have to check jobs.ie or indeed to see every company is hiring all the time. They just dont get rid of people that easy because its hard to replace them. Id be shocked if op was out of work for more than a week if they did let her go which they wouldnt anyways imo.

Yes she get work with a **** security company, the more reputable security companies are definitely tightening up on there recruitment.

shanno66

ZX7R wrote: »

Yes she get work with a **** security company, the more reputable security companies are definitely tightening up on there recruitment.

She already works for a **** company. And tbh theres very few good ones out there. Iv'e been in the industry for 11 years,most of the companys are the same well the ones in the retail, static and corporate side of it.

ZX7R

shanno66 wrote: »

She already works for a **** company. And tbh theres very few good ones out there. Iv'e been in the industry for 11 years,most of the companys are the same well the ones in the retail, static and corporate side of it.

I've been in and out of security for a similar length of time and agree with you , thank god the company I am with is one of the good ones but things are changing and especially on the client's end of contracts they are demanding a much higher standard and hopefully will improve all aspects of security for all employees

JazzJaquzzi

Ask yourself OP - what would the company do if the roles were reversed. Well, they'd do what's best for them for sure.

Take the day sick - tell the company in advance that this situation is making you really stressed, so that they have a chance to plan in advance. Tell them that it's on your mind constantly, and you are worried about working on that day, as this is too much conflict between work and family, and you are afraid of burning out. Tell them that you are concerned that you will not be able to respond to work situations correctly, as you are worried about your mum. Go to a doctor and discuss this.

That is stress. That is the reason people get signed off for stress. If your company doesn't have a backup plan - that's their responsibility to sort out.

I say this as somebody who would drag myself into work with two broken legs, but, there are many jobs. There's only one mum.

Wish you a happy Christmas.

pinching myself here and checking that this was posted in "work and jobs" and not after hours

the company isnt forcing anyone to work. they're paying them to.

christmas and other shifts are known quantities and no doubt well contracted for under the usual arrangements

asking for annual leave is not "telling the company your plans"

the advice in the thread telling the OP to pull a sickie, its their fault, you'll be grand is very poor advice and very poor form.

shanno66

ZX7R wrote: »

I've been in and out of security for a similar length of time and agree with you , thank god the company I am with is one of the good ones but things are changing and especially on the client's end of contracts they are demanding a much higher standard and hopefully will improve all aspects of security for all employees

Spot on mate. These tech giants are demanding a much higher quality of guards and a couple of companys are providing extremely good training to staff.but the supply just cant meet the demand

theres still alot of companys that have alot to catch up on and theres only a limited number of people licenced so they tend to not let people go as much as other jobs.

Anyways gl with whatever you do op

splinter65

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

I think its time and a third, im not too sure.


Its a little bix toxic to be honest but I need this job

Christmas Day and Stephens day are double time by law

Teddy Daniels

splinter65 wrote: »

Christmas Day and Stephens day are double time by law

Nope
You get a day off anyanys and you get paid for the day so it’s double pay but All full time will get paid for Christmas Day without working so it’s only single time

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

and a third

f**k that

is that even legal?

No it’s not double time or an extra days A/L is the law

Dakota Dan

cruizer101 wrote: »

What sort of work do you do, it is very uncommon to have to work christmas day, outside of emergency services.

I’ll tell my dairy cows that Christmas Day maybe they’ll understand.

splinter65

OP you’ll get Carers Benefit from the DSP if you decide to go home and look after your mam for a while.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_benefit.html
You can take it for as little as 6 weeks or as much as 104 weeks. Your employer has to agree unless he can prove that he can’t operate without you and you have to bereturned to your previous position after.

ZX7R

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s not double time or an extra days A/L is the law

Only if you work It I believe.

Where I work Christmas day ,st Stevens day and new year Eve night are all triple pay + you get Sunday rate added and dubble holiday hours.

Markcheese

cruizer101 wrote: »

What sort of work do you do, it is very uncommon to have to work christmas day, outside of emergency services.
And normally it should be timetabled well in advance so it is clear.
That said it is just a public holiday so your entitlements are the same as for others.

On a Public Holiday All workers are entitled to one of these :
A paid day off on the public holiday
An additional day of annual leave
An additional day’s pay
A paid day off within a month of the public holiday

Sounds like a crappy place to work mind I'd be looking for something else.

There is something in the regs about notice of working for public holidays... Might be worth checking out..

Heckler

Not saying a Doctor will lie but getting a sick note from a doctor is easier than getting candy from a baby.

Oh my back is wrecked/intense migraines (can't be disproved even with x-rays etc)..........Sick note. Week off.

The stress and effect on my mental health Doctor......Sick note. Week off.

Pull any kind of stress/mental anguish stroke and a doctor will sign off in a heartbeat and most companies won't touch you what with all their "Mental Health Awareness Week", "Reach out and Talk", "You're not alone" programs going on.

Not advocating taking advantage of any of the above in falsehood but the options are there. I've never done any of the above but know plenty who have. The bad back is a classic.

I went through a very stressful period in my work and was on the verge of quitting. Working long days, getting no sleep worrying about what had to be done the next day etc. Now it smoothed out eventually and all is fine but if the same thing happened again I'd have no problem going to the Doc and getting a sick note for absence due to stress.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Wesser wrote: »

It's not fair to expect your GP to write a sick cert for you if you are not sick.
For those of you saying just get a sick note....i think t it is presumptuous of you to assume that your GP would write a sick cert if you are not sick.

I can confirm from a folly of my youth that it’s very wrong to assume that a doctor will give you a sick note if you aren’t sick. Any ethical doctor won’t be comfortable with the idea.

weetiepie

seamus wrote: »

This. Jobs come and go. Family are more important than money.

Let's get morbid for a second OP, I apologise in advance;

If things were to turn out for the worst next year, would you rather remember that you stayed in Dublin over Xmas in order to keep your job, or that you told your job to stuff it so that you could home and spend Xmas with your mother?

You already know the answer to this, I'm just trying to put it in perspective. You don't need this job that much.

You tell your boss, "I am going home on Sunday night and I'll be back in work next Thursday". He can't physically force you to stay, so just do it.

This!!!! I 1000% agree with...life is too precious and too short

Thoie

For all the people saying "get a sick note", that's all very well and good, but what if the company ask her to attend a doctor of their choosing (which they can do), and then she has to admit she's at the other end of the country and can't get to that doctor for 2 or 3 days?

Mikefitzs

I can emphatise with you but at the end of the day this is part and parcel of your chosen career, if you want to keep your job just go to work or don't go and get a new job. I hope things improve for you no matter.

the_syco

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

I work in Security, the site im on has to be manned 24/7.
Ive already used all my holidays plus a few unpaid days & a couple days of force Majeure leave, I pretty much have nothing left to take off and thats what their saying

Why didn't you book one of those days off for xmas?

Also, if you have used up all of your holidays, what did you intend on doing for xmas? Taking an unpaid day off when those with holidays booked it off for holiday?

Elmo wrote: »

That is strange, a retention policy of only 3 months. Have you asked IT can you get a copy?

Fairly standard, to stop emails taking up too much space. Usually you to set a folder as 12/24/36 months to save stuff that you need to save.

Elmo wrote: »

I hate to say this and I would never do this but call in sick and get a doctors note.

Having already asked for the day off, this is not a good idea.

Elmo wrote: »

From what I can see the OP did plan and asked for the time off.

Asked for it off, didn't get it off. Used up all her leave, and now tries emotional blackmail to get it off.

idnkph wrote: »

Why oh why would anyone answer their phone to their employer on Xmas day?!

Most likely reason; it's in their contract. If one of the plebs calls in sick, the supervisor has to come in. Joys of leadership.

idnkph wrote: »

And the doctor doesn't have to lie just sign a piece of paper for the OP.

Some doctors will sign anything, some doctors won't.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

That is the companies fault.

It's the companies fault that she has already taken all of her holidays?

WoolyJumper wrote: »

No one needs to be working on Christmas day unless you work for emergency/essential services.

Crime doesn't sleep. Thus security is needed at certain locations 24/7.

shanno66 wrote: »

Lol lose her job ? In security ? Not a chance would she lose her job. Companies cant keep there staff at the moment and no one gets the sack for refusing a shift. Even at christmas !

In a job where you need to be able to depend on your employees, you won't employ an employee that will decide to not show up on days that they're rostered to do so.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

But why should it be her? Why does she have to be the one to make the sacrifice?

Because everyone else had holidays left to take it off. OP may have booked it off, but OP may have already gotten her company to ignore the request, so she could've taken another day off previously.

=-=

OP; if you want to be with your mum, quit the job. Calling in sick, and turning your phone off will mean that you won't get a good reference, and you may find it difficult to get work again in the security industry.

Especially if what you say below is true;

IrishGirl18 wrote: »

this company is "Irelands largest employer" in this particular work field

fordyjames

Work isn't everything OP. I worked 120 Kms from home and only saw a dying parent the weekends. Worst young immature stupid mistake of my life, fresh out of college.

If you have debts screw them, nothing more important than family. What's the worst that can happen. A couple of threating letters and your debts reduced.

Don't make the same mistakes as I did