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Employer forcing me to work over Christmas

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    #152
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    con___manx1 wrote:
    She cant be fired for that. If your sick your sick. The op could be honest and just refuse to go in and get a warning either. What growing up do I have to do ? The ops mother had cancer and she didnt want her mother to be home alone for Christmas. Are you saying the boss isnt a heartless bastard ? The boss let the supervisor thats probly licking the hole off him off for xmas and the op is expected to do there work aswell. I know exactly how these type of establishments work. If i was the op id take my chances. There are plenty of other jobs in dublin that dont require you to work for christmas and treat you like a person and not a number. You want to wake up and smell the coffee.


    Not working a shift and you really think it would be finished at a warning? Then consider she asked for that specific time off was refused and the ended up sick anyway?....... you are awesome

    Her mother was sick yes and she took loads of extra time off for it. You think she needs Christmas week also? What happens for new years? Easter etc? She tool her allowed time off and now she wants more? Get real here. She could have saved her time off for this but didnt.

    She does supervisors duties.....

    Also others booked the time off and didnt take it during the year. she did.

    You are advising her to leave her job....... enough said about you!


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    #153
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    A Shaved Duck? wrote: »
    Having had 2 parents go through terminal illnesses the only advice i can give is go spend time with your mother, nothing else matters.

    Jobs come and go, Bosses get annoyed..its all irrelevant.

    It’s not clear if the OP’s mother is terminally ill though.


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    #154
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    She cant be fired for that. If your sick your sick. The op could be honest and just refuse to go in and get a warning either.
    What growing up do I have to do ? The ops mother had cancer and she didnt want her mother to be home alone for Christmas. Are you saying the boss isnt a heartless bastard ? The boss let the supervisor thats probly licking the hole off him off for xmas and the op is expected to do there work aswell. I know exactly how these type of establishments work.
    If i was the op id take my chances. There are plenty of other jobs in dublin that dont require you to work for christmas and treat you like a person and not a number.
    You want to wake up and smell the coffee.

    Let’s get a few things straight. Anyone can be fired, at any time. For anything. Or for nothing. The Gardai won’t come if you ring them and tell them you’ve been fired.
    You can be fired and you can make a complaint to WRC and that’s actually very stressful, nobody does it for you you have to go to the hearing yourself and your former employer will hire a solicitor and a barrister who will eat you up and spit you out in lumps unless you have a solicitor and barrister and that’s going to cost you more then you might win.
    In my experience this employer has been very fair with this employee so far and the employees colleagues will no doubt have been sympathetic but I’ve already advised that if the employee isn’t available for work due to caring issues that they should apply for Carers Benefit.
    Other employees probably have personal issues they need taking into consideration as well and the employer has to run a business at the end of the day.


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    #155
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Let’s get a few things straight. Anyone can be fired, at any time. For anything. Or for nothing. The Gardai won’t come if you ring them and tell them you’ve been fired.
    You can be fired and you can make a complaint to WRC and that’s actually very stressful, nobody does it for you you have to go to the hearing yourself and your former employer will hire a solicitor and a barrister who will eat you up and spit you out in lumps unless you have a solicitor and barrister and that’s going to cost you more then you might win.
    In my experience this employer has been very fair with this employee so far and the employees colleagues will no doubt have been sympathetic but I’ve already advised that if the employee isn’t available for work due to caring issues that they should apply for Carers Benefit.
    Other employees probably have personal issues they need taking into consideration as well and the employer has to run a business at the end of the day.

    We are not living in america. You cant be fired for nothing and if you are Usually there can be pretty big payouts. A colleague of mine was unfairly dissmissed from another company. She got 20000 euro out of it. She setteled out of court. Usually unfair dismissal cases are settled out of court for big sums. Obviously because the company's dont want to risk looseing and being named and shamed in public with how badly they treated their employee. The companys that do go to court and loose will be in the newspaper or news website 100% iv read about so many of them and how much they have had to pay out.


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    #156
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    con___manx1 wrote:
    We are not living in america. You cant be fired for nothing and if you are Usually there can be pretty big payouts. A colleague of mine was unfairly dissmissed from another company. She got 20000 euro out of it. She setteled out of court. Usually unfair dismissal cases are settled out of court for big sums. Obviously because the company's dont want to risk looseing and being named and shamed in public with how badly they treated their employee. The companys that do go to court and loose will be in the newspaper or news website 100% iv read about so many of them and how much they have had to pay out.


    You dont go to work and you dont expect to be fired? What world are you living in?


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    #157
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    The reality is OP needs a lot of flexibility and time off, not just for Christmas but on an ongoing basis.

    Her employer is within their rights to start saying no.
    They may not fire her for missing Christmas but they can certainly cause her great difficulty going forward.


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    #158
    Sinead Mc1
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Sinead Mc1


    Your mother is very sick and you have obviously been vocal to your management about this. However, you have no idea what this Christmas means to your colleagues who may have kept their responsibilities to themselves.
    Some of them may be responsible for cooking for the whole family.
    It may be some of their first christmas's with a newborn.
    Some of them may have to travel.
    Some of them may have a sick loved one also.
    Some of them may have a loved one, dealing with depression, who cannot be left alone on Christmas day for fear of what they may do. This very person may have wanted to take leave throughout the year, to be with said loved one, but knew, if they did, they may have to work Christmas.
    Don't ring in sick.
    You have no idea if your troubles are bigger than anyone else's and these people kept their leave.
    If you feel you can't work let your management know, now, you won't be coming in. Give them a chance to get a replacement by maybe offering a better incentive.
    And let them deal with you after. If they do fire you at least you can explain in any interview that you had a sick relative and advised, in advance, you couldn't come in for Christmas.
    That is much better than a potential new employer receiving a reference detailing how you applied for leave and when it was declined rang in sick.
    I think management have been fair to you.
    They have to be fair to everyone else also.


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    #159
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    We are not living in america. You cant be fired for nothing and if you are Usually there can be pretty big payouts. A colleague of mine was unfairly dissmissed from another company. She got 20000 euro out of it. She setteled out of court. Usually unfair dismissal cases are settled out of court for big sums. Obviously because the company's dont want to risk looseing and being named and shamed in public with how badly they treated their employee. The companys that do go to court and loose will be in the newspaper or news website 100% iv read about so many of them and how much they have had to pay out.

    It’s only settled on the court steps if there’s no chance of the employer winning. In this case the employee is frustrating the terms of they're contract by refusing to be available for shifts despite the employer accommodating them regarding a personal issue in as much as they could. The fact that Carers Benefit/Allowance is available to employees to cover such crises is further bolstering the employers position.


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    #160
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    The nature of the security job ? Sitting in a hut opening a gate for trucks that won't be coming because they are off for Christmas ? Validating visitors that won't be coming because its Christmas ? Or maybe more serious than that.

    Either way **** them. I brought my Dad to hospital christmas eve in 2005 and he never made it out. I have one parent left and if it was a choice between my job and my mother the job can go **** itself everytime.


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    #161
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    Mr.H wrote: »
    You dont go to work and you dont expect to be fired? What world are you living in?

    Ever hear of a sick note ? Dont need to be sick to get one necessaralily depending on the doctor. 60 euro for the privilege and leagally not a thing an employer can do about it christmas or not. I would never go down the refusing to go in route but iv pulled the sick note trick a few times in my working life when I absouloutly had to. You work to live not live to work. Thats my attitude anyway.


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    #162
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Sinead Mc1 wrote: »
    Your mother is very sick and you have obviously been vocal to your management about this. However, you have no idea what this Christmas means to your colleagues who may have kept their responsibilities to themselves.
    Some of them may be responsible for cooking for the whole family.
    It may be some of their first christmas's with a newborn.
    Some of them may have to travel.
    Some of them may have a sick loved one also.
    Some of them may have a loved one, dealing with depression, who cannot be left alone on Christmas day for fear of what they may do. This very person may have wanted to take leave throughout the year, to be with said loved one, but knew, if they did, they may have to work Christmas.
    Don't ring in sick.
    You have no idea if your troubles are bigger than anyone else's and these people kept their leave.
    If you feel you can't work let your management know, now, you won't be coming in. Give them a chance to get a replacement by maybe offering a better incentive.
    And let them deal with you after. If they do fire you at least you can explain in any interview that you had a sick relative and advised, in advance, you couldn't come in for Christmas.
    That is much better than a potential new employer receiving a reference detailing how you applied for leave and when it was declined rang in sick.
    I think management have been fair to you.
    They have to be fair to everyone else also.

    If its serious and comes to family, everyone, co-workers that might get screwed, bosses, job. Irrelevant. I don't care if Mary from accounts has a newborn. I don't care if Phillip traveled from the moon to see Marys newborn. I don't care if Phillips airplane blew apart and fell into the ocean.

    You get one family.

    Jobs and co-workers come and go and I'd harbour no ill will to another worker who may have the same attitude.


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    #163
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    Call in sick worst they can give you is a warning. No big deal.Is it an american company ? They should be sympathetic with your earlier cancer diagnosis. Your boss has no empathy. Absolute dick head.

    Dumb is the only word I can think of.... You do realise that the mother lives down the country so we are not just talking of a day off.

    And yes it is a big deal, if you are the one who has to be called to cover the shift and have your prearranged holidays cancelled. Obviously you are the kind of work colleague we can all do without.


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    #164
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Dumb is the only word I can think of.... You do realise that the mother lives down the country so we are not just talking of a day off.

    And yes it is a big deal, if you are the one who has to be called to cover the shift and have your prearranged holidays cancelled. Obviously you are the kind of work colleague we can all do without.

    No its not. If you are off turn your phone off or divert work calls.

    You really want someone to be working a probably pointless job ( sorry don't mean security in general just if its a pointless exercise over a slow period
    unless you're in Nakatomi Plaza on christmas) to the detriment of their sick mother ? Get your prioritories straight.


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    #165
    rex-x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rex-x


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    Ever hear of a sick note ? Dont need to be sick to get one necessaralily depending on the doctor. 60 euro for the privilege and leagally not a thing an employer can do about it christmas or not. I would never go down the refusing to go in route but iv pulled the sick note trick a few times in my working life when I absouloutly had to. You work to live not live to work. Thats my attitude anyway.

    A doctors note explains your absence from work but does NOT excuse it. You can still be disciplined/fired even with a sick note. You live on a planet different to the rest of us and are providing horrendous advice


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    #166
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    Ever hear of a sick note ? Dont need to be sick to get one necessaralily depending on the doctor. 60 euro for the privilege and leagally not a thing an employer can do about it christmas or not. I would never go down the refusing to go in route but iv pulled the sick note trick a few times in my working life when I absouloutly had to. You work to live not live to work. Thats my attitude anyway.

    Another person who thinks a sick note is a silver bullet where employment rights is concerned . And “ legally “ no less. I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve dealt with who were shocked to discover that their sick note was replied to with a P45, especially people who left the public service to work for a private employer.


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    #167
    qxtasybe1nwfh2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭qxtasybe1nwfh2


    Heckler wrote: »
    The nature of the security job ? Sitting in a hut opening a gate for trucks that won't be coming because they are off for Christmas ? Validating visitors that won't be coming because its Christmas ? Or maybe more serious than that.

    Either way **** them. I brought my Dad to hospital christmas eve in 2005 and he never made it out. I have one parent left and if it was a choice between my job and my mother the job can go **** itself everytime.


    You'd be surprised how busy it can be on Christmas day for security depending on your area. A lot of young people from troubled homes knocking around with nothing to do or best time to rob somewhere when you know its empty! But that being said, I don't know about OPs area!


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    #168
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    If your mum thought you were risking your job by pulling a sickie/not coming in, she'd probably tell you to stay put. If you lose your job and she finds out, that'll bring extra stress onto her.

    Look, I absolutely get that family is the most important thing and that nobody ever wishes they'd done more overtime when they're on their deathbed. But maybe you need to be pragmatic here. You've said that although this place is toxic, you need this job. Do you have much cash to live on if they give you a P45 and you have to find another job?


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    #169
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    con___manx1 wrote:
    Ever hear of a sick note ? Dont need to be sick to get one necessaralily depending on the doctor. 60 euro for the privilege and leagally not a thing an employer can do about it christmas or not. I would never go down the refusing to go in route but iv pulled the sick note trick a few times in my working life when I absouloutly had to. You work to live not live to work. Thats my attitude anyway.

    Great attitude. No problem with life being more important than work. The problem is i am going to have to pay your bills because your too lazy to look after your own responsibilities.


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    #170
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    rex-x wrote: »
    A doctors note explains your absence from work but does NOT excuse it. You can still be disciplined/fired even with a sick note. You live on a planet different to the rest of us and are providing horrendous advice

    ? explains but doesn't excuse ? Its the whole point of a sick cert. It both explains and excuses. Any employer giving grief after providing a doctors note needs to be told piss right off and reported to HR if you don't have the balls to tell them yourself.


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    #171
    rex-x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rex-x


    Heckler wrote: »
    ? explains but doesn't excuse ? Its the whole point of a sick cert. It both explains and excuses. Any employer giving grief after providing a doctors note needs to be told piss right off and reported to HR if you don't have the balls to tell them yourself.

    In Ireland that's not how it works


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    #172
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,648 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Heckler wrote:
    ? explains but doesn't excuse ? Its the whole point of a sick cert. It both explains and excuses. Any employer giving grief after providing a doctors note needs to be told piss right off and reported to HR if you don't have the balls to tell them yourself.

    She's right though. Loads of people seem to have this idea that a sick note means your employer is powerless to do anything but it's perfectly possible and legal for an employee to be let go even while on certified sick leave as long as the proper avenues are taken. I've seen it happen several times.


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    #173
    mr_cochise
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭mr_cochise


    A sick cert does not make someone immune from discipline or termination.


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    #174
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    A sick cert does not make someone immune from discipline or termination.

    Not in this excuse for a workers rights country. Sure you'll get away with it but its marked on your record and next time review is up. Didn't do overtime that was asked ? out sick ? Wasn't a monday by any chance was it ? Their attitude is **** you replacable self then, my attitude is **** you then. I will scam and scrounge rob and lie and if my CEO who cleared multiple of personal millions last year while paying minimum wage has a beef then **** you too.


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    #175
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Heckler


    And yes. I doctor time sheets. Figured out how to fix the clock in/out system. And regularly thieve things from work that are marked for destruction.


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    #176
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,648 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Well that escalated quickly.


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    #177
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,980 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Not surprised its security


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    #178
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,980 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Elmo wrote: »
    That is strange, a retention policy of only 3 months. Have you asked IT can you get a copy?

    It's becoming the norm


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    #179
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,980 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    If you want to spend quality time with your mother I'd leave that toxic industry... Life is too short


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    #180
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    She's right though. Loads of people seem to have this idea that a sick note means your employer is powerless to do anything but it's perfectly possible and legal for an employee to be let go even while on certified sick leave as long as the proper avenues are taken. I've seen it happen several times.

    For a one offl/day sickness? No you haven't.


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    #181
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,980 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Not very considerate of his/her fellow colleagues who may have their own family dramas going on, who will be called in on their day off on Christmas Day to cover the shift.
    Very selfish imo.

    I have been the person who was called in, and I didn't appreciate it one bit.

    Did your mother live alone and suffer from cancer?


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