Teachers Being Paid

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

in threads relating to public sector pensions do you weigh in on the pensions as

a. self funded

or

b. paid out of curent spending

C. Partially self funded paid out of current spending.

Avatar MIA

Avatar MIA wrote: »

C. Partially self funded paid out of current spending.

gwan out of it and be serious

you want it paid over forty years without any net present value inference

have some pride ffs

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

gwan out of it and be serious

you want it paid over forty years without any net present value inference

have some pride ffs

What are you on about?

not a thread to derail but you are trying to have your cake and eat it and you either are very much aware of this or you ought not use big boy language

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

not a thread to derail but you are trying to have your cake and eat it and you either are very much aware of this or you ought not use big boy language

I've no clue as to what you're inferring. The best I can think of is that you're having a great Christmas. Kudos.

But, if you'd like to further the conversation you may want to elucidate.

km79

Sure we are lucky to be getting paid for it all aren’t we ?
It’s a vocation
Should be doing it for free

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

Should be doing it for free

Along with the CP hours 🀔

Blaizes

Kyng Famous Mail wrote: »

Can you advise as to how best to keep informed? My experience is that DES payroll don't answer the phone and don't reply to emails. You say this was "well flagged" - to who? I subbed for two weeks in a school and no information was posted about Christmas pay. The DP said ask the secretary, the secretary said she didn't know and was too busy.

Thankfully I'm not relying on the money but I won't be doing any more subbing for DES schools. Their payroll appears to be incompetent and they just don't seem to give a fiddler's about subs.

Thank you Kyng Famous Mail, you have said it so well.This is my point the subs are being treated so badly.Luckily I am not dept. so I was ok and got paid but when I read about these dept. paid teachers I was disgusted and v. upset for them.As I have a husband who carries everything ( and lucky I am in this regard ) the sky would not have fallen down had I not been paid as a sub. But for these teachers without a partner or parents in a position to help them out it's a really bad place to be in facing into Christmas with no pay in some cases. It's simply not good enough and some of these teachers were even talking about leaving teaching and who could blame them. There are plenty of other opportunities out there who would bother teaching when being treated like that.

evolving_doors

Avatar MIA wrote: »

What pension pot? There has been attempts by previous governments to provide for future pension liabilities, but most future pension payments are predicated on the future working population being able to pay pensions of future retirees - hence the pension time bomb. The relatively generous state pension will also be a major drain. But there's not a significant government pension pot, in the same way as a private sector pension pot may be ring fenced.

Well if it goes to the general exchequer fund it's a tax then isn't it?

Avatar MIA

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well if it goes to the general exchequer fund it's a tax then isn't it?

Only if pensions never get paid... But I think we'd hear about it if that were the case.

Your pension contribution is tax deductible from your salary.

There's no moral justification for reducing the pension contributions, however that's not how politics works, so if you agitate and are successful I won't complain as I would indirectly benefit, but I don't understand how someone's blood boils when they pay relatively little to garner the pension rights they have.

mtoutlemonde

Blaizes wrote: »

Thank you Arlessienne, you have said it so well.This is my point the subs are being treated so badly.Luckily I am not dept. so I was ok and got paid but when I read about these dept. paid teachers I was disgusted and v. upset for them.As I have a husband who carries everything ( and lucky I am in this regard ) the sky would not have fallen down had I not been paid as a sub. But for these teachers without a partner or parents in a position to help them out it's a really bad place to be in facing into Christmas with no pay in some cases. It's simply not good enough and some of these teachers were even talking about leaving teaching and who could blame them. There are plenty of other opportunities out there who would bother teaching when being treated like that.

Just to be fair... I have worked for the DES for a long time now and have never had a problem with payment. If I need to contact them, they have been very courteous and sent on anything I needed immediately. On the other hand, I worked for an ETB last year for about twelve weeks - a complete nightmare! I was ten weeks without pay and dealt with the most rude HR staff ever. There were many 'think ins' why it was so difficult to get subs ... if they solved the previous two problems, it may help. Back in DES this year and won't be going back to that ETB anytime soon.

evolving_doors

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Only if pensions never get paid... But I think we'd hear about it if that were the case.

Your pension contribution is tax deductible from your salary.

There's no moral justification for reducing the pension contributions, however that's not how politics works, so if you agitate and are successful I won't complain as I would indirectly benefit, but I don't understand how someone's blood boils when they pay relatively little to garner the pension rights they have.

So enlighten me as to how much someone puts in... and gets out.

Blaizes

Really though, none of this should happen be it whichever pay path, because teachers deserve better.We have great teachers in this country I am a primary parent and see how much work is being done with my kids in school and am so grateful to the teachers for the work they do every day and I know when they go into secondary I will say the same if by then teachers won't be so *eed off by everything that that they will have left. I really hope this won't happen.

Avatar MIA

evolving_doors wrote: »

So enlighten me as to how much someone puts in... and gets out.

Your pension is the PS and you don't know?

Here's one article...

Do you think you'll pay 590k into your pension before you retire, even with PRD?

https://www.newstalk.com/-Public-sector-earning-40-more-than-private-says-Davy-

spurious

Away with the teacher bashing folks. Not the forum for it.

No end of other places on boards which will be happy to put up with it.


June
July
August
Loadsamoney
Gold plated pension
Finished at two every day
"I knew a teacher who....."

Avatar MIA

spurious wrote: »

Away with the teacher bashing folks. Not the forum for it.

No end of other places on boards which will be happy to put up with it.


June
July
August
Loadsamoney
Gold plated pension
Finished at two every day
"I knew a teacher who....."

Who is teacher bashing? Are we saying correcting misperceptions is teacher bashing now, seriously?

emilymemily

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Follow Voice For Teachers on FB, attend your union meetings are just two places where I came across this information. Also have heard of union reps in schools making people aware of it.

Why should we have to attend union meetings to get the wages which are owed to us??? Its an absolute disgrace.

TheDriver

Time for a modding: No further talk/trolling regarding pension pots etc on this thread, it is about payment dates and not receiving money owed on time. This is not a thread for discussion about deductions etc

Avatar MIA

TheDriver wrote: »

Time for a modding: No further talk/trolling regarding pension pots etc on this thread, it is about payment dates and not receiving money owed on time. This is not a thread for discussion about deductions etc

Wow. Joke of a forum.

rainbowtrout

emilymemily wrote: »

Why should we have to attend union meetings to get the wages which are owed to us??? Its an absolute disgrace.

You shouldn't. But what is blindingly obvious is that if substitute teachers are not being paid on time in December by the DES and it is an ongoing issue, then if affected teachers turn up in their droves at their union meetings to voice their concern and put it on the agenda at every union meeting, then the unions will make it an issue and will make representations to the DES. If enough pressure is put on the DES by the unions on behalf of their representatives, then the DES might review their payment procedures.

That is the whole point of unions - representing their members. Whinging on VFT or any other forum won't make a blind bit of difference.

emilymemily

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You shouldn't. But what is blindingly obvious is that if substitute teachers are not being paid on time in December by the DES and it is an ongoing issue, then if affected teachers turn up in their droves at their union meetings to voice their concern and put it on the agenda at every union meeting, then the unions will make it an issue and will make representations to the DES. If enough pressure is put on the DES by the unions on behalf of their representatives, then the DES might review their payment procedures.

That is the whole point of unions - representing their members. Whinging on VFT or any other forum won't make a blind bit of difference.

Subs shouldnt have to chase after their own wages. Do you think the lads in payroll would be willing to chase up their wages by bringing it up at meetings at joining unions and praying they be taken seriously? Not a chance. Thered be no one in payroll left, they'd all be on strike.
The unions are there to fight our corner, we shouldnt have to 'show up in droves' and beg them to fix it for us, we're paying them every month/year to do a job, I wonder what would happen if we missed a monthly or yearly fee? I dont think we'd be allowed to continue to be apart of the union, Yet for some reason, teachers are expected to continue working with no pay at the most expensive time of year and no one seems to care.
If the unions worked we wouldnt have issues like this to begin with, theyre clearly not doing their jobs. Ensuring employers are getting their wages and on time should be top of their agenda regardless, why do we have to ask them to do their job?

wirelessdude01

emilymemily wrote:

Why should we have to attend union meetings to get the wages which are owed to us??? Its an absolute disgrace.

Did I say that?

rainbowtrout

emilymemily wrote: »

Subs shouldnt have to chase after their own wages. Do you think the lads in payroll would be willing to chase up their wages by bringing it up at meetings at joining unions and praying they be taken seriously? Not a chance. Thered be no one in payroll left, they'd all be on strike.
The unions are there to fight our corner, we shouldnt have to 'show up in droves' and beg them to fix it for us, we're paying them every month/year to do a job, I wonder what would happen if we missed a monthly or yearly fee? I dont think we'd be allowed to continue to be apart of the union, Yet for some reason, teachers are expected to continue working with no pay at the most expensive time of year and no one seems to care.
If the unions worked we wouldnt have issues like this to begin with, theyre clearly not doing their jobs. Ensuring employers are getting their wages and on time should be top of their agenda regardless, why do we have to ask them to do their job?

Unions cannot police payroll departments. A union does not get a notification to their inbox because someone has not been paid on time. You will get paid but the method and time lapse is not satisfactory. That is why you get on to your union to make representations on your behalf for payment processing to be improved in the DES.

Have you actually contacted your union to let them know you are unhappy with how DES process sub payments and that you'd like them to do something about it?

judeboy101

Augeo wrote: »

Do you consider the pension contribution a tax?

I can't opt of of spouses child contribution , lots of teachers not married and childless

Will Yam

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Just to be fair... I have worked for the DES for a long time now and have never had a problem with payment. If I need to contact them, they have been very courteous and sent on anything I needed immediately. On the other hand, I worked for an ETB last year for about twelve weeks - a complete nightmare! I was ten weeks without pay and dealt with the most rude HR staff ever. There were many 'think ins' why it was so difficult to get subs ... if they solved the previous two problems, it may help. Back in DES this year and won't be going back to that ETB anytime soon.

I have worked in the private sector all my life. The one guiding principle everywhere I worked was that everybody should get paid accurately and promptly. Yes, errors occurred, but were resolved quickly, particularly if they occurred at Christmas. Invariably the rule was accept the employees version first and pay the difference - if it's too much it will be clawed back at next payroll. I saw on one ocassion 3 people being underpaid in error just before Christmas and a director wrote 3 personal cheques for the difference to tide them over Christmas.

By contrast earlier this year I have recently taken on some small parttime work where payment is made by ETB. I have yet to be paid correctly, despite filling in the legions of forms (first time ever I filled out forms everytime I was to be paid).

I raised this and was advised to contact the ETB directly. I was further advised that if I spoke "nicely" to them they would probably sort things. It was also implied to me that if I didn't speak "nicely" to them the problem could take ages to resolve.

I'm lucky that I can afford to wait. But this sort of stuff wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector for 5 minutes.

Blaizes

emilymemily wrote: »

Subs shouldnt have to chase after their own wages. Do you think the lads in payroll would be willing to chase up their wages by bringing it up at meetings at joining unions and praying they be taken seriously? Not a chance. Thered be no one in payroll left, they'd all be on strike.
The unions are there to fight our corner, we shouldnt have to 'show up in droves' and beg them to fix it for us, we're paying them every month/year to do a job, I wonder what would happen if we missed a monthly or yearly fee? I dont think we'd be allowed to continue to be apart of the union, Yet for some reason, teachers are expected to continue working with no pay at the most expensive time of year and no one seems to care.
If the unions worked we wouldnt have issues like this to begin with, theyre clearly not doing their jobs. Ensuring employers are getting their wages and on time should be top of their agenda regardless, why do we have to ask them to do their job?

Subs shouldn't have to chase after their wages as you say but it seems they do.As Rainbowtrout suggests the union is a good idea but then how many subs are even in a union. I know I'm not I'm going from school to school and don't think for this reason I'd be even eligible to join one.But for teachers in one it would seem the most logical port of call even though sub teachers are probably low down in the pecking order due to the transient nature of subbing itself.Probably a whole other topic but anyway subs need to be paid the same as everyone else on time and the proper amount.

Will Yam

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Just to be fair... I have worked for the DES for a long time now and have never had a problem with payment. If I need to contact them, they have been very courteous and sent on anything I needed immediately. On the other hand, I worked for an ETB last year for about twelve weeks - a complete nightmare! I was ten weeks without pay and dealt with the most rude HR staff ever. There were many 'think ins' why it was so difficult to get subs ... if they solved the previous two problems, it may help. Back in DES this year and won't be going back to that ETB anytime soon.

Blaizes wrote: »

Subs shouldn't have to chase after their wages as you say but it seems they do.As Rainbowtrout suggests the union is a good idea but then how many subs are even in a union. I know I'm not I'm going from school to school and don't think for this reason I'd be even eligible to join one.But for teachers in one it would seem the most logical port of call even though sub teachers are probably low down in the pecking order due to the transient nature of subbing itself.Probably a whole other topic but anyway subs need to be paid the same as everyone else on time and the proper amount.

Surely the responsibility for ensuring that staff get paid correctly lies with the principal, and not with unions?

I can't for the life of me understand why people paid - very very well - to manage can survive without managing.

wirelessdude01

Blaizes wrote:

I know I'm not I'm going from school to school and don't think for this reason I'd be even eligible to join one.

Every teacher can join a union.

mtoutlemonde

Will Yam wrote: »

I have worked in the private sector all my life. The one guiding principle everywhere I worked was that everybody should get paid accurately and promptly. Yes, errors occurred, but were resolved quickly, particularly if they occurred at Christmas. Invariably the rule was accept the employees version first and pay the difference - if it's too much it will be clawed back at next payroll. I saw on one ocassion 3 people being underpaid in error just before Christmas and a director wrote 3 personal cheques for the difference to tide them over Christmas.

By contrast earlier this year I have recently taken on some small parttime work where payment is made by ETB. I have yet to be paid correctly, despite filling in the legions of forms (first time ever I filled out forms everytime I was to be paid).

I raised this and was advised to contact the ETB directly. I was further advised that if I spoke "nicely" to them they would probably sort things. It was also implied to me that if I didn't speak "nicely" to them the problem could take ages to resolve.

I'm lucky that I can afford to wait. But this sort of stuff wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector for 5 minutes.

Well I always speak 'nicely' and maybe that was my problem a pushover. I also don't agree with people attacking people in their workplace as has been alluded to here - it gets you no where and the employee is only doing his/her job and needs respect .... it could be a case that the computer says no 😀

After the second pay day had passed, I contacted the ETB and was speaking to a very nice person in payroll who asked me to pass on a message to HR when I got through to them ... that's when the proverbial hit the fan when the person in HR said 'how dare another department, tell you to tell me how to do my job' - I don't take abuse either and soon decided to end my call. Again this delayed my payment for another two weeks or more can't remember. Also regarding paperwork, she started saying that I didn't have such and such but I hand delivered everything the week I started... obviously not looked at and the employee didn't like the fact that everything was legit my side, only they hadn't taken the time to read it. It will, be a long day in hel, before I return.

I have worked in DES schools for a long time and have accepted that substitution has to be in by the first week in December to ensure payment - that's life - most schools comply with this. This was also another reason why the department starting paying holiday pay in the first payslip of December... some budgeting maybe needed but if you're a long term sub, you will have enough to see you through the Christmas season unless you're buying elaborate presents or going on the beer for the holiday season.

Also agree with rainbowtrout, if issues are not raised and recorded at union meetings, then there is no issue. The majority of people who attend my meetings are permanent so pay at Christmas won't be an issue so it can't be raised.

mtoutlemonde

Will Yam wrote: »

Surely the responsibility for ensuring that staff get paid correctly lies with the principal, and not with unions?

I can't for the life of me understand why people paid - very very well - to manage can survive without managing.

Not in ETBs - payroll and HR. Principal is really only a manger who deals with in school.

Also agree regarding managing.- see my post above.