Irish Golfer Magazine Top 100 Golf Courses

FixdePitchmark

Yes it is probably for another thread.

And I do note in weightings - a very small sub set was;

" Friendly staff: Welcomed on arrival: Value for money. "

This is a % of a % - but again very hard to see how each of these were accurately judged. And it is only a very small % anyway.

It is a fine effort - in an unscientific process.

For another thread - But if Rory Mcilroy has excluded Portmarnock , GUI will at some stage have to have a more solid policy on social factors and inclusion.

I'd be only delighted and would support a move to remove clubs from the GUI that do not meet a number of criteria on inclusion.
Including a requirement to hold opens.
People often say - you are just looking for a reduced rate - genuinely, It is more about the principle of a union. It is about sporting golfers who support the union. I've paid full rate and will - but have serious issue how they can come to my club at a reduced rate and enter opens.
They also drop their kids and female family members down to play - mad stuff.

If you don't have opens - don't expect to play in other opens - simple.
If you don't have full female members - you simply can't be in the GUI - as simple as that.

Another thread

Scott Tenorman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Whilst I get your point , is it not reasonable in a process of that scale , that you get to play a free round ?

I've been lucky to get a few invites and reduced green fee rates . But equally I've gone out and paid full rate in Tralee , RCD , Co. Louth and a good few others.

I'd agree the psychology of a free round versus a full rate is different.

But if they are all free , this removes that?

I know Kevin's material fairly well and he has never sent me wrong on quality and value for money front.

I know an interesting side is value for money , but with the economy picking up again and a new sort of higher level elite golf coming in , Trump , Jp McManus style.

Some of the courses may as well be on Mars.
I think this has become an increasing factor in Ireland.

Sorry I just realised that I wasn't to answer that question

I just think the best and fairest way to do it is like food or hotel critics do it- no warning and as far as the staff know they are just a regular customer.

Maybe that is how it is done, i was just wondering.

PARlance

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

I just think the best and fairest way to do it is like food or hotel critics do it- no warning and as far as the staff know they are just a regular customer.

Maybe that is how it is done, i was just wondering.

Restaurant and hotels will more often than not know if a critic is visiting. Even the Michelin Inspectors are identifiable through their traits (and some restaurants train staff to spot them).

Scott Tenorman

PARlance wrote: »

Restaurant and hotels will more often than not know if a critic is visiting. Even the Michelin Inspectors are identifiable through their traits (and some restaurants train staff to spot them).

And if they know are they treated the same as they would be if they didn't know?

That is the point

londonred

Thanks to all involved putting the list together , have only played 15 of them going to try and play another 10 this year.

tax_tutor1

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Yes it is probably for another thread.

And I do note in weightings - a very small sub set was;

" Friendly staff: Welcomed on arrival: Value for money. "

This is a % of a % - but again very hard to see how each of these were accurately judged. And it is only a very small % anyway.

It is a fine effort - in an unscientific process.

For another thread - But if Rory Mcilroy has excluded Portmarnock , GUI will at some stage have to have a more solid policy on social factors and inclusion.

I'd be only delighted and would support a move to remove clubs from the GUI that do not meet a number of criteria on inclusion.
Including a requirement to hold opens.
People often say - you are just looking for a reduced rate - genuinely, It is more about the principle of a union. It is about sporting golfers who support the union. I've paid full rate and will - but have serious issue how they can come to my club at a reduced rate and enter opens.
They also drop their kids and female family members down to play - mad stuff.

If you don't have opens - don't expect to play in other opens - simple.
If you don't have full female members - you simply can't be in the GUI - as simple as that.

Another thread

I agree completely with your comments about inclusion and having open competitions. Unfortunately the GUI will Never rock the boat or impose these requirements on any affiliate club! It is all the super exclusive and very expensive clubs that do not have any opens etc. Adare (big), Portmarnock, Old Head, as they do not want the hassle or loss of green fee income!

Kevinmarkham

Answers in blue

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

Couple of questions for Kevin & Ally:

When you are going to play a course do they know you are coming?
My visits have nothing to do with the Top 100 ranking. I visit simply because there have been changes to the course I wish to see, I'm working on a specific article/project, I'm looking for a particular photograph or because I'm in the area.

Surely it would be better to arrive, pay and use the facilities just as a normal customer would have to.
I guess that depends on what benefit you think that has to either the panellist or the course.

Have you ever been offered freebies from a course you are judging?
I have never been offered freebies specifically (as in 'come along and you can play for free')... but I don't get charged green fees either. But this really ties in with my first answer above.

Kevinmarkham

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know Kevin's material fairly well and he has never sent me wrong on quality and value for money front.

Thanks Fix, I'm sure you'd have a few niggles with some of my reviews but I know we both prefer the big scale links.

Scott Tenorman

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Answers in blue

Thanks Kevin, appreciate you taking the time to answer

nuac

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

With the greatest of respect Kevin, Mulranny, no way should it be in the top 100 using the criteria outlined previously and i love the place and played it several times over the years. Barbed wire around the greens reminds me of football grounds in the seventies and eighties. Now if keeping a club and course open against all odds and Global Warming was a part of the marking regime then Mulranny would be imo in the top 10.

The old Mulranny course was more scenic. It was just to the east of the present course but included some higher ground on which the small club-house was built. Great views over Clew Bay, Some good long holes, one onto a green practically in the sea.
Afaik it was wholly run by the GS hotel, but leased from owners of the commonage,
Clement Attlee played it on visit to the area c 1948. Did not get the publicity that such a visit would generate today.
Some bother arose over title and the lease; the hotel dropped out. By then CIE seemed to have decided to sell the hotel and were no longer that interested in the golf course.
Some local golfers and friends from adjoining areas kept the club going on the flatter ground to the west of the old course

Roland27

The Irish Golfer Top 100 Courses in Ireland 2020:

https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2020/01/13/the-irish-golfer-top-100-courses-in-ireland-2020/

rooney30

Baltray ahead of Ballybunion . Seriously ???
Much of the top ten is at odds with world rankings , doesn’t make a lot of sense
They are in love with Portmarnock every year for some reason

First Up

These are always subjective opinions; its hard to compare courses with such a variety of styles etc.

My main quibble with all of these rankings is that they seem to be made based on the courses in their optimum condition because this is never referenced. This ignores/avoids the reality of the (many) times of year when they won't be in top condition due to weather. There are courses in that list that I know are virtual bogs in wet weather.

The evaluators would do us a service if they included things like drainage and the condition of fairways, rough and greens outside of the May - September period in their overall assessment.

RoadRunner

rooney30 wrote: »

Baltray ahead of Ballybunion . Seriously ???

I haven't played Ballybunnion, but I played Baltray recently and it was outstanding. Have you played both?

GreeBo

Individual placings outside of the top 3 or 5 are somewhat meaningless IMO.

They should bucket the courses and assign a rating to the bucket.

Probably half the courses between 20th and 60th place are of the same standard but you can't have 40 ties so it comes out with course A being 20 places behind course B for no real reason.

Moving from 56th place to 54th place really means nothing.
But moving from a 3 star rating to a 4 star is huge.

Ally McIntosh

GreeBo wrote: »

Individual placings outside of the top 3 or 5 are somewhat meaningless IMO.

They should bucket the courses and assign a rating to the bucket.

Probably half the courses between 20th and 60th place are of the same standard but you can't have 40 ties so it comes out with course A being 20 places behind course B for no real reason.

Moving from 56th place to 54th place really means nothing.
But moving from a 3 star rating to a 4 star is huge.

Part of what you say is correct. Sometimes a movement up or down by a few spots is really based on not a huge amount, often just a change in panel members.

I have toyed with two alternative methods:

1. A Michelin star style guide that really focuses in on the cream and separates them.

2. A mark out of 10 (in much the same way as Doak’s Confidential Guide).

That said, I sit on The Irish Golfer panel. It’s taken very seriously by people who tend to know what they are talking about. It most certainly has its place.

JohnnyFlash

Nice to see Portumna break into the top 50. Best value round of golf in Ireland imo and a serious feed in the clubhouse afterwards.

GreeBo

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Part of what you say is correct. Sometimes a movement up or down by a few spots is really based on not a huge amount, often just a change in panel members.

I have toyed with two alternative methods:

1. A Michelin star style guide that really focuses in on the cream and separates them.

2. A mark out of 10 (in much the same way as Doak’s Confidential Guide).

That said, I sit on The Irish Golfer panel. It’s taken very seriously by people who tend to know what they are talking about. It most certainly has its place.

I dont really have an issue with how the courses are rated, but if I gave you 100 apples and asked you to rate them 1 - 100, I@m not really sure of the value of distinguishing between apple 100 and apple 90, 80, 70.

They do it well with second hand golf balls, there are certain checks that gets points and the points total gives a grade.
You dont sort within the grade as it doesnt really mean anything.

Ally McIntosh

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont really have an issue with how the courses are rated, but if I gave you 100 apples and asked you to rate them 1 - 100, I@m not really sure of the value of distinguishing between apple 100 and apple 90, 80, 70.

They do it well with second hand golf balls, there are certain checks that gets points and the points total gives a grade.
You dont sort within the grade as it doesnt really mean anything.

Completely agree the lower down you go.

The higher up you go, the more value there is in splitting out in to smaller buckets or individually.

paulanthony

I think 1-10(ish); 11-40 and then 41-100 are roughly the three major baskets.

Bucket list courses (1-10); top quality championship-style courses (11-40) and those which are a cut above your average local course (ie, worth a green fee for a non-member) (the rest).

Outside of that it's difficult to distinguish. I certainly haven't played anything like all of these courses but I would have Mullingar higher up the list than Tulfarris, for example, and Luttrellstown one place ahead of Druid's Glenn can't be right.

I think the first two are in the right bracket but Luttrellstown should be in the third bracket and not in with the likes of Druids, Headfort (New), Carlow etc.

Based on Greebo's suggestion 1-10 (or maybe 15 looking at the list) would be 5*, the remainder up to approximately 41 would be 4* and the rest would be 3*.

As Greebo says, it would actually be a much bigger thing for, say, Dromoland to jump from a 3* to a 4* than from 55 to 47 or for somewhere like Mount Juliet to gain a fifth star.

Ally McIntosh

paulanthony wrote: »

I think 1-10(ish); 11-40 and then 41-100 are roughly the three major baskets.

Bucket list courses (1-10); top quality championship-style courses (11-40) and those which are a cut above your average local course (ie, worth a green fee for a non-member) (the rest).

Outside of that it's difficult to distinguish. I certainly haven't played anything like all of these courses but I would have Mullingar higher up the list than Tulfarris, for example, and Luttrellstown one place ahead of Druid's Glenn can't be right.

I think the first two are in the right bracket but Luttrellstown should be in the third bracket and not in with the likes of Druids, Headfort (New), Carlow etc.

Based on Greebo's suggestion 1-10 (or maybe 15 looking at the list) would be 5*, the remainder up to approximately 41 would be 4* and the rest would be 3*.

As Greebo says, it would actually be a much bigger thing for, say, Dromoland to jump from a 3* to a 4* than from 55 to 47 or for somewhere like Mount Juliet to gain a fifth star.

Personally, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, another 10 courses at 4 stars, around another 25 courses at 3 stars, 30 at 2 stars and 50 at 1 star.... around 120 courses...

Ally

paulanthony

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Personally, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, another 10 courses at 4 stars, around another 25 courses at 3 stars, 30 at 2 stars and 50 at 1 star.... around 120 courses...

Ally

I guess my view would be that the 2* and 1* courses are the ones that haven't made the list - ie the other 225 or so courses. Anything that makes the top 100 is worthy of 3*, taking the whole country into context.

FixdePitchmark

In my head, I always had 3 divisions.

1st / 2nd / 3rd.

Obviously not an exact science.

But the 1st division ones are the ones I have to play - will pay a good bit extra, travel , stay over, take a day off work.

Division 2 is where you play most your golf , play opens , get an open price, expect good standards and conditions and greens. A course you could be a member of, would look forward to a society outing on.

Division 3 - is a lower standard , cheaper round, you go with beginners, casual societies, you would not join. But some ok courses and good holes.

You could have a Division 4 - But I have played on these too - basically if you are at work somewhere in Ireland and a field has holes , it will do if you love this game

I've played golf at every level above.

An interesting dimension to it - IMO is that there are very few if any in division 1 , I would want to be a member of. The courses at that level have many problems. I never understood them till I played most of them

1) They are too hard , what would you be doing playing The Island for 9 holes mid Feb.
2) Course access is very controlled , where does driving in from work and playing 6 come in to it.
3) Many are way to formal and lack fun and can be socially odd
4) They are complete tourist traps.
5) Many are very restricted in winter, forward, under construction.
6) Golf can be very slow on them

Anyway - plenty of great golf in Ireland, I've spent 10 years at it and still loads of great courses to go.

First Up

Yes, instead of agonising over who should be 46 or 47, how about grouping courses into categories that would be useful to users

As it is, its just an academic indulgence.

FixdePitchmark

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Personally, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, another 10 courses at 4 stars, around another 25 courses at 3 stars, 30 at 2 stars and 50 at 1 star.... around 120 courses...

Ally

That is very harsh (IMO) - way more at 4 (IMO)

GolfNut33

Same circus everytime these lists are released. They're a load of BS and mean nothing.

Ally McIntosh

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

That is very harsh (IMO) - way more at 4 (IMO)

Actually not harsh enough. Looking at it in more detail, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, 9 courses with 4 stars, 20 with 3 stars, 25 with 2 stars and about 50 with 1 star. 250 courses without a star.

Suppose it depends what you want the star system to do for you...

You’ve a funny opinion about some of the top clubs, Fix... a few of your points are a long way off the mark.

FixdePitchmark

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Actually not harsh enough. Looking at it in more detail, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, 9 courses with 4 stars, 20 with 3 stars, 25 with 2 stars and about 50 with 1 star. 250 courses without a star.

Suppose it depends what you want the star system to do for you...

You’ve a funny opinion about some of the top clubs, Fix... a few of your points are a long way off the mark.

Well what are the 6 courses so ?

We are speaking in general terms here.

But post the clubs and I'll tell you my experiences.

But to say there are only 35 courses in Ireland at 3 stars or better is a bit wide of the mark (IMO) , that is incredibly high standards.

I could probably post 6 in Wicklow alone.
Take your pick from these 8 - that are not 3 star or higher.

Arklow
Wicklow
Macreddin
Druids Glen
Druids Heath
Greystones
The European
Tulfarris

Then to mark
Woodenbridge at 2 , is very harsh .

Ally McIntosh

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well what are the 6 courses so ?

We are speaking in general terms here.

But post the clubs and I'll tell you my experiences.

But to say there are only 35 courses in Ireland at 3 stars or better is a bit wide of the mark (IMO) , that is incredibly high standards.

I could probably post 6 in Wicklow alone.
Take your pick from these 8 - that are not 3 star or higher.

Arklow
Wicklow
Macreddin
Druids Glen
Druids Heath
Greystones
The European
Tulfarris

Then to mark
Woodenbridge at 2 , is very harsh .

I just think it’s more useful if you use a star system to tell you something about our best courses. Giving 30 courses five stars (division one status) measures Portrush or RCD at the same level as Slieve Russell. It gives those searching out the best a really bum steer.

Any course with a star is a worthy play. But those with five stars should be world class.

FixdePitchmark

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

I just think it’s more useful if you use a star system to tell you something about our best courses. Giving 30 courses five stars (division one status) measures Portrush or RCD at the same level as Slieve Russell. It gives those searching out the best a really bum steer.

Any course with a star is a worthy play. But those with five stars should be world class.

OK well I'm proportioning stars like a % , like how you would look at a hotel.

But yes - it is all semantics to a degree.

What are the 6 courses ?

I'll be fascinated / surprised if they do not fall into some / most of the criticisms I highlighted

thewobbler

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

OK well I'm proportioning stars like a % , like how you would look at a hotel.

But yes - it is all semantics to a degree.

What are the 6 courses ?

I'll be fascinated / surprised if they do not fall into some / most of the criticisms I highlighted

The problem with using a star system for golf courses is that - mainly because of the awareness and acceptance of hotels ratings - we’ve been conditioned to believe that a 2 star must be avoided and a 1 star is basically a condemned building.

While there should be a way to classify highly distinguished golfing experiences from plain-old very enjoyable ones, I expect any established and well maintained golf course in Ireland would have serious grounds to object to being classified as less than 3 star (which if you think about it, equates to a mark of under 40%).

FixdePitchmark

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

Actually not harsh enough. Looking at it in more detail, I’d have 6 courses at 5 stars, 9 courses with 4 stars, 20 with 3 stars, 25 with 2 stars and about 50 with 1 star. 250 courses without a star.

Suppose it depends what you want the star system to do for you...

You’ve a funny opinion about some of the top clubs, Fix... a few of your points are a long way off the mark.

Ally - If you list these 6 courses - I'll offer a fair criticism.

There was a great post on the golf forum here - that certain top clubs in Ireland are "socially retarded".

If you think these courses are members clubs - post away.

I'm fascinated - below is a possible list ?

1. Royal Portrush – Up 1

2. Portmarnock – Down 1

3. The Golf Course at Adare Manor – New Entry

4. Lahinch – Same

5. Royal County Down – Down 2

6. County Louth – Up 1


There is only one course above that passes my test - if you have some insight to offer on these , I'd love to hear.

There is hardly an open , a women, or sensible price to be seen. The idea that none are tourist traps is interesting.

But , if I'm wide of that mark - i'd love to see why ?

Ally McIntosh

TheWobbler: I think your point is why I had looked at The Michelin stars as a guide, where everyone understands a star means something special... or just stick to numbers rather than stars (out of 10). Doak states in his Confidential Guide that 3 out of 10 = an average course. This allows him to concentrate on talking about and splitting up very good to great courses.

FixdePitchmark: I think you are very wide of the mark. Firstly you were talking about Division 1 clubs which you had as top 30 or so. Secondly you were talking about not wanting to be a member there, not playing as a visitor. Therefore Open comps (the lack of which I know irks you) and cost to play should not be topics.

Equally, most of the Division 1 courses either restrict tourist play or are so remote that they wish they could attract more tourists. The top clubs actually attract people who are there for the golf first. Play is fast, a quick 6,8 or 11 holes is regular and restrictions are few.... True, there are a few that seek to fill their timesheet (Ballybunion, Lahinch for example) and this can slow down a round but there are plenty of courses down the list that have equally full timesheets and often slower rounds where societies are the norm. Top clubs can have hard courses but not necessarily any harder than Division 2 clubs... The Island in February (your example) is a joy for instance. The rough is cut back, there is run in the fairway and yet you will have far less chance of losing balls than you do in July.

FixdePitchmark

Again , list the clubs ?

I absolutely love The Island , but think it is way too hard to be running around on. I'm talking about playing 6 holes in 50 mins.

I would have considered joining, but agree with your point it is too remote. I agree it is empty most of the time , I'd imagine summer access is not easy. Even the layout provides a challenge for access to the course . I personally don't think you could rock up to The Island in work gear , change in the car park and jump on the 5th , but I'm being facetious for a second.

Again if The Island is in this top 6 , I'll comment specifically on each course.

You haven't engaged on the social dimension and you think opens and cost are not considerations. The point I was making , would you join these clubs?. There is far more that comes into it if you would consider joining.

It is a separate dimension / topic - but I was talking about my own experience and so many clubs are not suitable to be members' clubs. A reasonable question after a golf experience, Would I join ?

To mention one top 6 / 30 or whatever. Enniscrone is probably my dream club. But again unbelievably hard, or I'm not good enough.

Back to cost , you literally couldn't pay me to join certain clubs in this top 6 /30. There is no point being in a club, if you are not comfortable in it .

So , I'll play them as a tourist. I view playing them as an event to look forward to . But very often , delighted I'm not a member.

slave1

Real annoying when a long post gets lost:mad:

I can't rank the best as I have RCD outstanding, until then

Portrush - just perfection IMHO
Lahinch - toughest course I've ever played but pure links from the first tee
Portmarnock - might be thought of as bland but play it a few times and you'll change your mind
Cashen - adventure links, ups, downs, blinds, short, long, strategy, valleys, dogs left and right, perched greens and some outstanding views

Kevinmarkham

I've always like Ally's idea of a Michelin Star-style guide and putting courses into categories... the challenge becomes the size of each category and how many clubs would be included overall.

I never ranked my courses in Hooked, just marked them on specific criteria. In the first edition, the highest scoring club was Co. Sligo but it's not my favourite course.

It would be great to see a ranking somewhere pursue this Michelin model... but when you produce a Top 100 ranking people want to see the specific placings and Club A wants to see if it beats its neighbour, Club B. Consider Grange vs. Castle, Lahinch vs. Ballybunion, Malone vs Belvoir Park.

Golfers do pay attention to such rankings.

Fix, I'm intrigued by your comments on the top clubs:

1) They are too hard , what would you be doing playing The Island for 9 holes mid Feb.
I'd counter that they are challenging and require your very best golf brain and ability to do them justice. I know you love The Island - our round there was a cracker - but in February you get run on the ball whereas at a parkland you're more likely to plug.

2) Course access is very controlled , where does driving in from work and playing 6 come in to it.
Are you talking for visitors or members? My home club of Greystones requests that members book tee times throughout the day. You could turn up after work to play six holes and find the timesheet fully booked. I know that at Portmarnock late afternoons/evenings are an easy time to get out to play and I played Waterville late in the day in mid-summer without another golfer on the course.

3) Many are way to formal and lack fun and can be socially odd
I've had some stuffy, unfriendly receptions in my day and while I don't disagree that they can be socially odd (RCD's clubhouse is very strange) and unwelcoming I could name another 10 clubs outside the top 50/100 that can be just as awkward.

4) They are complete tourist traps.
They are world-class, bucket list venues. They are therefore in huge demand from golfers across the globe. Any club would take advantage. Members however are catered for with specific morning time slots (RCD, Portmarnock, Royal Portrush all have them). The alternative would be to go the US private club route - which I abhor.

5) Many are very restricted in winter, forward, under construction.
Forward tees in winter are a good thing - I have no issue with that, especially at parklands. Most links today will require mats to be used to protect the course.
Under construction? Do you mean winter works? I can't think of a golf club not doing winter work.

6) Golf can be very slow on them
I imagine this is in reference to tourists... and I won't disagree with you there. Rounds can be interminably long. That said, much depends on the interval times at the golf club and this is something that affects most members clubs on the weekend.

If I've misconstrued the points you're trying to make, sorry.

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont really have an issue with how the courses are rated, but if I gave you 100 apples and asked you to rate them 1 - 100, I@m not really sure of the value of distinguishing between apple 100 and apple 90, 80, 70.

Greebo, this has got to one of the weirdest comparisons I've ever seen

FixdePitchmark

That's a good post Kevin , but if any of them issues are present at a club . It is a deal breaker for me to join.
You can join a club with little or none of the issues mentioned above. Even the tourist trap ones would do my head in , so fake in some of them.

I think there is a massive difference between a great golf club and a great golf course.

That is probably the only point I'm making.

Yes it is a different topic.

But of the top clubs I played , I'd join very few. A personal thing I guess. But I know many golfers would share my outlook. In fact , I know some who hated been in some of the "top clubs".

blue note

I've always said tiers would be a better way of ranking the clubs than a top 100, but the Michelin star system sounds like effectively the same thing. I can't really rate the courses because I haven't played any of the top ones, but I'd say have 3* as pretty much the ones people come to the country to play. RCD, Lahinch, Portrush, etc. You'd probably have 15-20 in this group and fair enough people would say that lahinch is clearly a better course than the European, but so what? It's not a list! The next 20 or so would probably mainly be the top parkland courses in the country and a few of the links that just miss out on 3 stars - carlow, Mount juliet, Portstewart, Portmarnock links.

Then there are loads of courses in this country that are terrific courses, the ones if they're local to you you'll make sure to check when their opens are. The likes of tullamore, new forest, Mount woodley, etc.

GreeBo

When bucketing courses is important to have enough buckets.
There shouldn't really be any difference between courses in the same bucket so you need enough buckets to distinguish them.

Seve OB

RoadRunner wrote: »

I haven't played Ballybunnion, but I played Baltray recently and it was outstanding. Have you played both?

Ballybunion is next level.

FixdePitchmark

Seve OB wrote: »

Ballybunion is next level.

In general The best links in Ireland are North or West.