Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018/2019 **warning in OP 24/2/19**

jayo26

Fair play to him he really banging in them penalties alright. Who would of thought a 85 million pound midfielder would put away 5 or 6 penalties and score another 4 or 5.

Delighted with pogba in last few weeks yes but I'll judge him at end of season same as I'll judge ole at end of season when he carries us through a pressure game that depends on us getting top four then ill be convinced he can build on this but wouldn't be getting overly excited about pigba yet he doing well that's all.

PhlegmyMoses

Zeek12 wrote: »

You can say it's tedious.

But you should bring that up with the folks who keep pushing the outdated Mourinho agenda here.

Plenty of guys here posting videos of him on beIN today.
For what reason?
On the day we won our 7th game in a row. Its time to let him go IMO....

I don't believe Your Airbag was among them.
He's just countering some of the points made in those posts.

We all know we're not the perfect team.....but at least we can watch the football again and we're improving.

And top 4 is now a real possibility!

I am sick of ALL of the Mourinho chat. I am not targeting one side of the debate, so not sure why it is being viewed that way.

In my opinion, this thread cannot handle any Mourinho conversation without it devolving into point-scoring essays, and both sides are entrenched and barely reading each other's posts at this stage.

As I said, not a mod and not everybody else's job to entertain me, but just my two centd.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Speaking of pogba, he is now our top scorer this season with 10 goals and has his best ever start to a season goalscoring wise

I know you are talking about total goals this season and its great to see Pogba finally living up to his potential after some ropey times over the past few seasons.

I just looked into the league only stats (after your post) and we have 4 joint top scorers with 8

Martial
Rashford
POgba
Lukakua

Minutes per goal

Martial 150
Lukaku 155
Rashford 170
Pogba 209

Conversation rate to shots taken

Martial 32%
Lukaku 25%
Rashford 17 %
Pogba 11 %

(disclaimer this math might not be correct but i think it is but its late)

It does go someway to supporting the idea we need to get Martial in more goal scoring opportunities although as always with football the sample size is quite small

d22ontour

MrMac84 wrote: »

Imagine if he’d have actually tried the first 16 games where he’d be! Not a bit convinced by this purple patch

What a load of bollox.

If you think he downed tool, then what excuse do you have for the rest of the team?

Our style of play has changed the last seven games, instead of hoping poor teams make mistakes we force the issue.

We tailed off in the last 2 games after having plenty of chances to kill each game. Don't remember noticing that for a long time.

brinty

Avianna Victorious Rip-off wrote:

Imagine if he’d have actually tried the first 16 games where he’d be! Not a bit convinced by this purple patch

ImAgine if you excluded penalties. How many is it then?

brinty

jayo26 wrote:

Fair play to him he really banging in them penalties alright. Who would of thought a 85 million pound midfielder would put away 5 or 6 penalties and score another 4 or 5.

Delighted with pogba in last few weeks yes but I'll judge him at end of season same as I'll judge ole at end of season when he carries us through a pressure game that depends on us getting top four then ill be convinced he can build on this but wouldn't be getting overly excited about pigba yet he doing well that's all.

Excellent response and points well made

Liam O

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know you are talking about total goals this season and its great to see Pogba finally living up to his potential after some ropey times over the past few seasons.

I just looked into the league only stats (after your post) and we have 4 joint top scorers with 8

Martial
Rashford
POgba
Lukakua

Minutes per goal

Martial 150
Lukaku 155
Rashford 170
Pogba 209

Conversation rate to shots taken

Martial 32%
Lukaku 25%
Rashford 17 %
Pogba 11 %

(disclaimer this math might not be correct but i think it is but its late)

It does go someway to supporting the idea we need to get Martial in more goal scoring opportunities although as always with football the sample size is quite small

This is actually good analysis. His passing needs to be looked at too. The whole front 4 lost the ball a lot in dangerous central positions today and it's a worry. It's great they've won all those games and I'm enjoying watching it a lot more than the José days but the last couple of games weren't far at all from going pear shaped and it's the same issues.

Ole has come in with a simpler style of play that the players clearly can't maintain for 90 mins. As far as I'm concerned the only difference between the Liverpool and Spurs games is that the Liverpool chances bounced in and the Spurs ones didn't.

Rayne Wooney

There are a few poor teams on the way in the league, you’d have to fancy our chances staying unbeaten until Liverpool come to OT. All of the teams above and Arsenal have beaten Burnley, Fulham and Leicester with ease except for the City mess up.

PSG and Liverpool a few days apart is not ideal.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

This is actually good analysis. His passing needs to be looked at too. The whole front 4 lost the ball a lot in dangerous central positions today and it's a worry. It's great they've won all those games and I'm enjoying watching it a lot more than the José days but the last couple of games weren't far at all from going pear shaped and it's the same issues.

Ole has come in with a simpler style of play that the players clearly can't maintain for 90 mins. As far as I'm concerned the only difference between the Liverpool and Spurs games is that the Liverpool chances bounced in and the Spurs ones didn't.

I'm sorry dude but I'd have to disagree with some of that.

I only did the comparison out of interest and while I do think Pogbas shooting rate is way too high (and i actually forgot to take penalties out of that so its actually a lot worse aswell for non penalty goals)

He does provide enough of a danger for teams to want to close him quickly and can pass well enough in them situations to exploit any movements from a well organised defensive line

I'm about to rant to bear with me

If teams dont take occasional low percentage shot/passes they become predicatble (us under LVG/ Peps first year in the league/ Sarris current Chelsea setup)

No amount of slick passing will beat well set up team(s) over a long period without the danger from other areas (specifically great dribblers and long range shooters which combine with your exceptional passers) ( one reason i expect City to sign neves next season or someone simialr)

In our last few games we have seen LIndeoff try the long pass in behind something Luis is great at Chelsea to mix it things up, which opens up a congested pitch ( i know i mentioned chelsea as being stale earlier but this currently seems to be the only tactic they have to counter act a low lying defence when Hazzard is shackled )

If you dont have variety in you play teams can just train all week to counter act your plan, its something I think LVG and jose failed to see ( they found holes in how teams played but then people adjusted to it and without a proper plan b failed)

TBF to klopp he has been called a one trick pony but he has adjusted and last season I wasn't a big fan of poch but looking at how he has managed to change the structure of his team without buying players this season has been very impressive

OK I've really come away from your original point but its no bad thing to have a player who can scare a defence into coming out of it shape to stop them taking low % shots

pjohnson

Safe to say thread is more miserable after a match win. Jaysus.

bangkok

MrMac84 wrote: »

Imagine if he’d have actually tried the first 16 games where he’d be! Not a bit convinced by this purple patch

Imagine we had a manager who actually trusted in his squad for the first 16 games where we would be

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

ImAgine if you excluded penalties. How many is it then?

He only scored 4 penos...

6 goals, 9 assists. Brilliant since ole came in as have the whole team

Adamocovic

brinty wrote: »

ImAgine if you excluded penalties. How many is it then?

Always find this such a ridiculous argument.

It makes no sense to me. Getting a penalty doesn't equal getting a goal, the player still has to step up and score.

Sorry just grind my gears these hypothetical scenarios of excluding certain stats that may help one side of an argument.

Adamocovic

bangkok wrote: »

He only scored 4 penos...

6 goals, 9 assists. Brilliant since ole came in as have the whole team

Imagine if you excluded goals with his right foot. How many is that then?

bangkok

Adamocovic wrote: »

Imagine if you excluded goals with his right foot. How many is that then?

classic

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

wow the nerve of spending so much money at utd and more or less saying he wasnt backed.

Haven’t watched the video but isn’t it roundly accepted around here that he wasn’t backed this summer ?

Whether you agree or not on his targets is another story.

beno619

Sand wrote: »

What we can compare is that both Guardiola and Mourinho inherited teams in the same league that both finished on 66 points after 38 games. 2 seasons later, it's unfair to compare the two sides, such was the progression of City under Guardiola vs. the regression of United under Mourinho. Which is my point.

If you want to go there let’s compare what both managers started with and what was subsequently spent. Pep was happy with his squad at the start of last season we still needed work.

beno619

Your Airbag wrote: »

Imagine if our top scorer wasn't being benched and called a.virus. let that sink in, he was called a virus. Man management is beyond Jose.

Allegedly. His attitude stank as bad as Mourinho’s Let that sink in.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Allegedly. His attitude stank as bad as Mourinho’s Let that sink in.

According to mourinho who also said rashford wasnt a striker and martial and rashford couldnt be on the pitch at the same time......

Crimson King

Why da fuq are we still even thinking about Jose? He is gone, United have improved so lets move on shall we?

Would love to see a fully fit and raring to go Alexis in this new system. It could really suit him

Mantis Toboggan

Crimson King wrote: »

Would love to see a fully fit and raring to go Alexis in this new system. It could really suit him

Can't see why we cannot discuss how Jose held us back for so long, how awful the football was and how he wasted 400 million pounds.

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

According to mourinho who also said rashford wasnt a striker and martial and rashford couldnt be on the pitch at the same time......

Nope I could judge Pogba’s ****e attitude with my own eyes and saw the interviews he gave after some of our better results under Mourinho at the start of the season.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Nope I could judge Pogba’s ****e attitude with my own eyes and saw the interviews he gave after some of our better results under Mourinho at the start of the season.

Is that when he said in the interview we should attack attack attack like the fans sing on the terrace? How could he say such a thing....

Trigger

To move a bit away from the repetition, Berta has an offer from United apparently.. also has a 2 year offer to stay in his current position


https://twitter.com/carrusel/status/1086750955595595776?s=19

DM_7

Crimson King wrote: »

Why da fuq are we still even thinking about Jose? He is gone, United have improved so lets move on shall we?

Would love to see a fully fit and raring to go Alexis in this new system. It could really suit him

This leave it alone complaint is annoying tbh.

Now while some seem to think it is brought up by some posters to annoy others, and I have no idea if that is true, it is still a relevant issue.

He may be gone but United after 6 wins on the spin remain sixth, because of what happened while he was manager. While it is great to see the team playing with more freedom etc we see United with a caretaker manager. That is how bad things got that United had to get a caretaker mid season and nothing has improved that we can look to as a medium or long term positive.

Good to have an obvious first 11 yet question marks over 4 of them exist. It is still possible Martial may be lost, De Gea has not signed a new deal, Herrera running out of contract and every chance Pogba will still be eyeing other clubs if a chance to move comes along. Jones and Young need to be replaced.

I could go on, but won't, I just don't get why we should not be allowed talk about Jose when the current and future of the club in the short term (at least) are directly influenced by his time as manager.

Mitch Connor

astradave wrote: »

To move a bit away from the repetition, Berta has an offer from United apparently.. also has a 2 year offer to stay in his current position


https://twitter.com/carrusel/status/1086750955595595776?s=19

I'd LOVE to know what structure/qualities United are looking for.

pjohnson

DM_7 wrote: »

This leave it alone complaint is annoying tbh.

Now while some seem to think it is brought up by some posters to annoy others, and I have no idea if that is true, it is still a relevant issue.

He may be gone but United after 6 wins on the spin remain sixth, because of what happened while he was manager. While it is great to see the team playing with more freedom etc we see United with a caretaker manager. That is how bad things got that United had to get a caretaker mid season and nothing has improved that we can look to as a medium or long term positive.

Good to have an obvious first 11 yet question marks over 4 of them exist. It is still possible Martial may be lost, De Gea has not signed a new deal, Herrera running out of contract and every chance Pogba will still be eyeing other clubs if a chance to move comes along. Jones and Young need to be replaced.

I could go on, but won't, I just don't get why we should not be allowed talk about Jose when the current and future of the club in the short term (at least) are directly influenced by his time as manager.

Well the good news is we have now won 7. Guess you missed a match concentrating on Jose's influence rather than Ole's.

DM_7

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the good news is we have now won 7. Guess you missed a match concentrating on Jose's influence rather than Ole's.

I was talking about the league. FA Cup does not help league position.

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

Is that when he said in the interview we should attack attack attack like the fans sing on the terrace? How could he say such a thing....

You can move the goalposts all you like. There is no proof Mourinho ever called Pogba a virus.

Pogba’s attitude under Mourinho and those interviews are open to interpretation.

DM_7

astradave wrote: »

To move a bit away from the repetition, Berta has an offer from United apparently.. also has a 2 year offer to stay in his current position


https://twitter.com/carrusel/status/1086750955595595776?s=19

Erm, that tweet mentions Mourinho.

Mitch Connor

Position, right now, doesn't matter. Points matter. We are now 3 points off 4th - a huge improvement. When ole took over people were saying the season was a write off cause CL qualification was impossible.

Trigger

DM_7 wrote: »

Erm, that tweet mentions Mourinho.

Yeah its saying now that Jose is gone he is considering an offer..

Quandary

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Position, right now, doesn't matter. Points matter. We are now 3 points off 4th - a huge improvement. When ole took over people were saying the season was a write off cause CL qualification was impossible.

Agree completely. If Ole can secure champions league football for the club it will have been an impressive cameo for him to say the least. Our champions league matches against PSG are going to be very interesting. I honestly have no idea how they will go, but I'm really looking forward to them.

I do worry about how the team will react when we have our first loss under Ole. I also believe that due to our very average defence we are going to suffer a heavy defeat sooner rather than later. A defeat that will really rattle the confidence of a squad that may be in an upswing but is still fragile.

Right now the football sun is shining on us and everyone is happy. When the cold and rain of bad loss hits it will tell us a massive amount about the genuine resilience of this group of players, and to a lesser extent, the manager.

Exciting times nonetheless

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd LOVE to know what structure/qualities United are looking for.

Yeah totally. There is no point appointing Betra who by all means has a great name for himself on the footballing world but does not fit what the club wants to do.

Hard to mention Betra and not have visions of Athletico Madrid teams under Simeone that would be a massive sideways step after Jose.

Drumpot

jayo26 wrote: »

Yeah totally. There is no point appointing Betra who by all means has a great name for himself on the footballing world but does not fit what the club wants to do.

Hard to mention Betra and not have visions of Athletico Madrid teams under Simeone that would be a massive sideways step after Jose.

This is the thing. There’s a lot about the way the club run we just don’t know.

Who ultimately decides on player targets? Who decides the criteria for players we will sign and the limits on spending on for example older players who would improve the first team. What players are not sold because we can’t actually sell them for different reasons?

What value is placed on style of football when we consider the 3 managers we have had since SAF retired? Is top 4 the primary goal ? What would the club do take an extra step to challange for top honors? (Eg pool breaking CB and GK records to push for a title challange).

Unearthly

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Position, right now, doesn't matter. Points matter. We are now 3 points off 4th - a huge improvement. When ole took over people were saying the season was a write off cause CL qualification was impossible.

I will hold my hands up. Called that wrong

jayo26

Drumpot wrote: »

This is the thing. There’s a lot about the way the club run we just don’t know.

Who ultimately decides on player targets? Who decides the criteria for players we will sign and the limits on spending on for example older players who would improve the first team. What players are not sold because we can’t actually sell them for different reasons?

What value is placed on style of football when we consider the 3 managers we have had since SAF retired? Is top 4 the primary goal ? What would the club do take an extra step to challange for top honors? (Eg pool breaking CB and GK records to push for a title challange).

My biggest fear is ole does well and it's all in vain we end up putting a structure in place for the sake of it and go with some manager and dof because of the names and not because it suits the club's philosophy.

Mantis Toboggan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd LOVE to know what structure/qualities United are looking for.

Woodward will no doubt go for the most high profile candidate he can get.

Does a director of football have a style of football, surely they are just there for signing players and the club would dictate the style to him? Or am i missing something

Drumpot

jayo26 wrote: »

My biggest fear is ole does well and it's all in vain we end up putting a structure in place for the sake of it and go with some manager and dof because of the names and not because it suits the club's philosophy.

Which is exactly how it looks like things have been done since SAF left.

So many signings and managerial appointments don’t show any real long term plan or structure. People keep presuming that when Jose said he wasn’t supported he was speaking only about the amount being spent. Again, nobody here knows how the club identified and chose to make certain signings.

I mean if we look at how the team is playing , you could ask if this squad was built for Jose or was it built in a manner where popular signings (like Sanchez) were prioritized over ones that might of been more responsive to the manager. I think that’s what Jose aluded to, he was talking about player temperament and squad culture. Sure how can you argue with getting Sanchez on paper? But Would perisic of responded better to Jose? It’s just one example where if you read between the lines , “not being supported” is not simply about money spent.

The club appears to have a compeletley disjointed footballing strategy that we now have 2 high profile managers confirming.

What city and Liverpool appear to have is a working transfer strategy and a cohesive long term vision driven by players and manager. But the strategys complement each level, it’s not just lets sign this high profile player, will he work well within the managers philosophy and methods? We haven’t had that since SAF retired, eventually you have to ask do we just keep hiring managers who are bad for the club or are the problems actually the one thing that is consistently making the big calls on football related matter?

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does a director of football have a style of football, surely they are just there for signing players and the club would dictate the style to him? Or am i missing something

Not necessarily it depends on what level of input he has. United need someone that going to take responsibility for the football side of things that will provide a continuous style and vision no matter what manager it is.

Our problem is since Fergie got sacked including ole we have four managers that have four very different styles and ideas on how the club should run, ole of course is United through and through so he knows exactly what the club used to be.

what we need is a dof that wants them same values that will sign players that can play that way and hire a style of manager that will play that way it all ties in.

brinty

Deleted User wrote: »

Does a director of football have a style of football, surely they are just there for signing players and the club would dictate the style to him? Or am i missing something

The DoF basically looks after the whole football operations of the club.is tasked with looking after everything from the youngest underage team to the first team. They ensure a style of play is in place all the way through the teams so players can fit into the next team up seamlessly. They identify a range of players at various stages of the careers and how they can fit into the academy,youth teams,first team and develop further. They should know if we need a 22 year old central midfielder who’s out there who’d fit into the team style rather than just getting the “galactico” signing. They’ve networks of agents,s outs and contacts worldwide in place.

Managers are now a short term position and the switch toward a technical director of football is the biggest appointment a club can make. Managers will now just train the first team and focus on that.

Just look at pep. Barca have a style of play all the way up from la masia/youth levels. It’s a 4-3-3 that everyone knows. When pep stepped up he knew what was expected and had the players around him to do the role. Serrano and bergeristan handled everything else. City came in and got those two and they’ve implemented that system in city since they came in. Pep came in and everything was ready for him to hit the ground running.

That’s what you director of football should and will be.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Not necessarily it depends on what level of input he has. United need someone that going to take responsibility for the football side of things that will provide a continuous style and vision no matter what manager it is.

Our problem is since Fergie got sacked including ole we have four managers that have four very different styles and ideas on how the club should run, ole of course is United through and through so he knows exactly what the club used to be.

what we need is a dof that wants them same values that will sign players that can play that way and hire a style of manager that will play that way it all ties in.

I understand the above alright I guess what im asking though is style something a dof has or can it be dictated by the club, just because the lad we were linked to is from Athletico doesnt mean he is only good at spotting defensive players he should be able to adapt to the clubs views on how they want football played surely

jayo26

Never thought I'd say this brinty bit great example. City basically were planning for pep 3 or 4 years in advance the backroom staff had alot of the club in place for him before he even got near the club.

yabadabado

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd LOVE to know what structure/qualities United are looking for.

That's the main thing ,no point bringing anyone in if its only to be a buffer/fall guy for the board.

United need a short term plan ie next 2/3 windows but also need to decide over the next 5 + years where they want the club to go.

fatherted1969

Delighted with the last few weeks. Looks like we're moving towards a fairly settled 11 with only the odd tweak here and there. Hard to see how Lukaku fits into this 11 if I'm honest. Struggles a bit at times with close control in tight situations. Time will tell though, great option to have coming in.

I've always felt and have said it here that we're far better than our performances would have suggested under previous managers. I think we will be found out at times but am so happy to be actually looking forward to watching them again.

PhlegmyMoses

yabadabado wrote: »

That's the main thing ,no point bringing anyone in if its only to be a buffer/fall guy for the board.

United need a short term plan ie next 2/3 windows but also need to decide over the next 5 + years where they want the club to go.

It needs to focus on youth with a sprinkling of experience. There is a blueprint there from Fergie's time and his two best teams had this.

As for how to play and all of that, I am not too worried as long as they avoid the Simeone types as managers .

yabadabado

Berta ticks a lot of boxs if the club are serious about a DoF.
He has 15 years experience in director roles and has shown at Atletico he can get some great work done without breaking the bank.
United have seemed to want big name signings and I think someone like Berta may be able to get in players who are nt the finished article but can step up.

Atletico play a defensive style under Simeone but Id expect Berta to be flexible with the type of players a club needs.The club give him a mandate and it's up to him to find the players needed and implement it through the club.

Atletico also aren't afraid to spend big when needed, something that will happen at United.

Loafing Oaf

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Delighted with the last few weeks. Looks like we're moving towards a fairly settled 11 with only the odd tweak here and there. Hard to see how Lukaku fits into this 11 if I'm honest.

Certainly couldn't justify playing him ahead of Rashford the way the latter is playing. and unless he offers a way leftfield solution to our centre-half issues, it's hard to see him starting the big names from now on...

Drumpot

Games remaining

Champions league : PSG - prob 60%+ probability of being knocked out . Possible To win but no shame in going out. Going through will begin to feel like a Bobby Di Matteo situation is beginning to unfold.

FA cup : Arsenal - maybe a slight advantage to arsenal , particularly after beating Chelsea which should have their confidnce high. Feels like the new manager bounce is starting to wane a bit so it will be our next biggest test after spurs hurdle. Interesting to see how we handle it.

League:

H v Burnley
A v Leicester
A v Fulham
H v Liverpool
A v Palace
H v Southampton
A v Arsenal
H v City
H v Watford
A v Wolves
H v West Ham
A v Everton
H v Chelsea
A v Huddersfield
H v Cardiff

Liverpool, Arsenal , Chelsea and city games are obvious games where points might be dropped. Considering we are trying to still make up 3 points it sort of lowers my confidence a bit seeing these games.

In the league the Liverpool game is the next big test as Burnley , Leicester and Fulham should all be beatable. Shame it comes in middle of champions league tie but I suppose liveroool have the same issue. They are also under more pressure while pushing for a title so will be interesting to see if we can exploit that.