American smart locks in Europe?

OU812

Might be replacing the front door at some point in the year and going for timber instead of UPVC.

This gives me the opportunity to go smart on the lock.

There’s a number of them on the market over there (the August pro is the one in the google home alone advert.

Any cons of going down this route?

We won’t have five point locking - but given the amount of recent front door broad daylight break-ins, I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing as we’d be moving to a deadbolt away from a eurocylinder.

Mantis Toboggan

No idea but this would be fantastic, smart locks or remote central locking for houses should have been available years ago.

degsie

Imaging the amount of interest from hacking groups, something to consider.

irelandrover

Check if your insurance would be valid with a smart lock

AstraMonti

Yale has one available, but I think the only way to be controlled in a "smart" way you need to have an additional module, plus smart things hub.. so it might get complicated for no reason. I am interested if you find more.

Mantis Toboggan

degsie wrote: »

Imaging the amount of interest from hacking groups, something to consider.

True, fingerprint software might be the way to go.

AstraMonti

Ok spent a few minutes googling, both available for euro cylinders.

https://nuki.io/

https://danalock.com/products/danalock-v3-smart-lock/

Nuki seems interesting.

OU812

irelandrover wrote: »

Check if your insurance would be valid with a smart lock

Would have to be declared on the insurance alright.

For some unknown reason they consider euro cylinders with five point locking more secure than deadbolts.

I understand the dive point locking if it was decent, but mostly they’re very poor quality steel.

mirrorwall14

irelandrover wrote: »

Check if your insurance would be valid with a smart lock

Our insurance company took three days to tell us they won’t cover any kind of smart lock only about six months ago

TeaServer

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Our insurance company took three days to tell us they won’t cover any kind of smart lock only about six months ago

Can you share what company this was? I'm looking to change my own front door soon and was thinking about smart lock. Insurance issues could be a deal breaker...

/T

wexfordman2

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Our insurance company took three days to tell us they won’t cover any kind of smart lock only about six months ago

Do they soexificly ask if you have a smart Lock or did you tell them. I don't think you would be obliged to tell them you have a smart Lock, a you would still have a deadbolt type lock which is the requirement.

mirrorwall14

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Do they soexificly ask if you have a smart Lock or did you tell them. I don't think you would be obliged to tell them you have a smart Lock, a you would still have a deadbolt type lock which is the requirement.

We rang them to ask. I take no chances on allowing them to not pay out. I worked in an insurance call centre during college. No idea who ours is with as husband does it. I’ll try and find out

54and56

I'm also interested in getting a smart lock.

I've already got a Nest Hello doorbell which was so easy to install and works fantastically well. Nest have The X smartlock in conjunction with Yale. It definitely looks smart but I don't like the pin code feature at all.

From the limited research I've done it seems the August Pro has the feature I'd most value which is geo location auto locking and unlocking based on your phone's proximity to the house rather than Bluetooth proximity which other locks have.

As I'm already invested in the Google/Nest product family (have Google Home and mini assistants etc) I think I'll wait for the next product from NEst which will hopefully have the geo location features I want. They already have such features built into the Hello doorbell in that it will auto turn on or off based on the location of phones you prescribe in the app or you can leave that feature disabled and have it record 24/7 or on a times schedule etc.

Integration with the Nest Hello app whereby if a parcel is being delivered and no one is home I can quickly tell the delivery person I'm unlocking the door to allow them place the parcel in the hall way would be a great solution but that may be some way off

ted1

degsie wrote: »

Imaging the amount of interest from hacking groups, something to consider.

Can’t see much interest, the hackers tend to work remotely, not turn up on people’s doorsteps.

bk

ted1 wrote: »

Can’t see much interest, the hackers tend to work remotely, not turn up on people’s doorsteps.

Yes, plus people who can really hack can normally earn far more money with an honest job in the enterprise IT world with zero risk of jail time.

Unless you are some super rich billionaire, folks hacking your home mission impossible style is just not realistic. People are watching too much Hollywood movies!

The people who break into people's homes are usually opportunist local scumbags. And most of them will simply smash through your door, no matter what lock you have. They certainly don't waste their time trying to hack anything.

The physical security of most doors, windows, patio doors and locks in Ireland is truly terrible and as cheap as possible and would not keep any determined thief out. If you are concerned about security then look to Europe where they tend to design doors and windows for security from scratch. Steel reinforced doors, that lock to a reinforced frame at multiple points around the frame (top, bottom, sides, etc.). Windows reinforced with high security film, etc. Lots of interesting info here (I've no connection with the company and have never used it, but lots of good info):

http://www.burglarybusters.ie/front-and-back-timber-doors.php

I'd see using smart locks as a convenience (letting the cleaner in, etc.) rather then really a security feature.

Though I would say many possible thieves might avoid a home that they saw with a smart lock. They'd guess that someone who has something like that probably also have a monitored alarm system, multiple IP cameras/CCTV, etc. and thus best avoided.

Security in depth.

AlmightyCushion

bk wrote: »

Yes, plus people who can really hack can normally earn far more money with an honest job in the enterprise IT world with zero risk of jail time.

Unless you are some super rich billionaire, folks hacking your home mission impossible style is just not realistic. People are watching too much Hollywood movies!

The people who break into people's homes are usually opportunist local scumbags. And most of them will simply smash through your door, no matter what lock you have. They certainly don't waste their time trying to hack anything.

The physical security of most doors, windows, patio doors and locks in Ireland is truly terrible and as cheap as possible and would not keep any determined thief out. If you are concerned about security then look to Europe where they tend to design doors and windows for security from scratch. Steel reinforced doors, that lock to a reinforced frame at multiple points around the frame (top, bottom, sides, etc.). Windows reinforced with high security film, etc. Lots of interesting info here (I've no connection with the company and have never used it, but lots of good info):

http://www.burglarybusters.ie/front-and-back-timber-doors.php

I'd see using smart locks as a convenience (letting the cleaner in, etc.) rather then really a security feature.

Though I would say many possible thieves might avoid a home that they saw with a smart lock. They'd guess that someone who has something like that probably also have a monitored alarm system, multiple IP cameras/CCTV, etc. and thus best avoided.

Security in depth.

I don't think degsie was referring to a local hacker coming around and breaking into your house but hackers finding an exploit or security hole that let's someone bypass or disable the smart lock and making an app that does it. Then your local theives just need to be somewhat tech savvy. Just like years back when Eircom based the wireless security key of their routers off the SSID. It wasn't hackers that were using this to get free wifi, it was normal people who read about it online or heard about it from someone else.

bk

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I don't think degsie was referring to a local hacker coming around and breaking into your house but hackers finding an exploit or security hole that let's someone bypass or disable the smart lock and making an app that does it. Then your local theives just need to be somewhat tech savvy. Just like years back when Eircom based the wireless security key of their routers off the SSID. It wasn't hackers that were using this to get free wifi, it was normal people who read about it online or heard about it from someone else.

I know. It is still far more likely that they will just kick in the door..... Or just drill out the Eurocylinder, takes about 2 minutes.

And the hacker would also need to hack your home security system and your IP security cameras. Again security in depth.

irelandrover

bk wrote: »

I know. It is still far more likely that they will just kick in the door..... Or just drill out the Eurocylinder, takes about 2 minutes.

And the hacker would also need to hack your home security system and your IP security cameras. Again security in depth.

How about hacker keeping a door locked and charging people to open it?

bk

irelandrover wrote: »

How about hacker keeping a door locked and charging people to open it?

You call a locksmith, they'll have it open in a few minutes

It is possible, but unlikely. Many of the locks that I have looked at, have some sort of local backup way to open them. Sometimes it is as simple as an actual key.

You are right though, I wouldn't get a smart lock which worked purely connected. What if your internet went down or power went. I'd have a preference for smart locks that still can take a key, etc. That the smart side adds to the lock, rather then replace it.

Del2005

bk wrote: »

I know. It is still far more likely that they will just kick in the door..... Or just drill out the Eurocylinder, takes about 2 minutes.

And the hacker would also need to hack your home security system and your IP security cameras. Again security in depth.

They've hacked cars and now the secure cars with remote start and access are being stolen regularly. So don't assume that the local scumbag doesn't know how to defeat a smart, or dumb, lock.

bk

Del2005 wrote: »

They've hacked cars and now the secure cars with remote start and access are being stolen regularly. So don't assume that the local scumbag doesn't know how to defeat a smart, or dumb, lock.

I know, there is a great video of two "guys" stealing a Tesla with a laptop!

I'm also aware that they know how to disable some home security systems (I won't mention how here, there are various methods).

The point is, it is trivially easy for most thieves to break into most homes anyway. A smart lock doesn't really make it easier, if anything I suspect a smart lock is more secure then the cheap locks on most Irish homes.

The idea of someone bothering to hack your door is pretty funny when in reality most experienced thieves can very easily break into most Irish homes in a few minutes with ease already.

wexfordman2

Del2005 wrote: »

They've hacked cars and now the secure cars with remote start and access are being stolen regularly. So don't assume that the local scumbag doesn't know how to defeat a smart, or dumb, lock.

Yes, using a sledgehammer, not a laptop

wexfordman2

irelandrover wrote: »

How about hacker keeping a door locked and charging people to open it?

Well then you take out the key and unlock the door (nuvo and August locks retain full manual use if keys, and dint even replace the external lock)

bk

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Yes, using a sledgehammer, not a laptop

And interestingly the sledgehammer thing is by design. After all if a fire breaks out in your house, you want the firefigthers to be able to get in quickly and rescue you.

Truth is burglary levels in Ireland are relatively low and the very rarely involve violence and you are far more likely to die in a house fire then from a burglary. So that is where the emphasis is put instead.

Non of us think anything of the fact if you lose your key, you call a locksmith and he'll have you in your house in just a few minutes. Well Burglars use exactly the same methods to get into your home. They aren't difficult.

Remember the old saying: "Locks keep out only the honest"

If you are interested in a smart lock, get one because it is more convenient (leave the cleaner in, etc.) not because it will massively improve security (though it might, slightly if you are coming from the normal, cheap lock).

Though I'd definitely go for one that still takes a normal key as a backup.

Also I'd keep my home security system, IP cameras and smart lock separate from one another, rather then all one service. It means a hacker would need to hack all three, gives you redundancy.

OU812

Any of the daytime burglaries in my place where they’ve entered through the front door have been a case of the door being forced open irrespective of the locks on it (lot of five point upvc doors, some wooden doors).

Others, they’ve cut the glass out or just broken it and got in that way