Out of Office / Weekend Hours

Leinsterfan18

I work in a sales role Monday to Friday, recently my role changed and I've been given a new set of customers that are bigger and more valuable to our business, of which I haven't gotten a pay rise.

We deliver the end product to customers Monday to Saturday with Saturday being the busiest day when orders are delivered. We have a call centre with telesales and customer service to deal with issues Monday to Sunday.

Most weekends now I divert my work phone to the call centre, at the start I'd my phone on and felt that my Saturdays were being eaten into with customer complaints and issues. I'd often get weekend texts from customers too saying they've an issue with their order, why they won't ring customer service I don't know.

My boss is old school and has no boundaries, he'll send emails at all hours, I know he's often been roped into weekend issues due to me being unavailable at the weekend and he's often mentioned x and y were onto him etc.

What advice would you offer here?

Do I suggest a meeting with my boss? Do I let him bring it up with me?

I'm not up to speed on my contract but with a field sales role I don't think there'll be a defined set of hours, its basically you manage the accounts and do what you have to do to hit your sales targets.

OMM 0000

Hmmm.

I had this issue, but from the boss's perspective.

I send e-mails at all hours, but I do not expect my staff to read them or reply to them until they're in work.

Are you sure your boss wants you to reply to e-mails when you're out of work?

Will you get paid extra commission for the new clients when they renew next year? If so, wouldn't this be considered a pay rise?

I think you should talk to your boss about it.

My feeling on that matter is this job requires you to be available on Saturday's, as that's when the big customers need you. But I think you should be compensated for this.

OldMrBrennan83

You work Monday to Friday. Saturday isn't your problem until it's specified and you're paid accordingly, so phone off and answer nothing. I'd even reply to texts with some form of out of office message.

OMM 0000

Patww79 wrote: »

You work Monday to Friday. Saturday isn't your problem until it's specified and you're paid accordingly, so phone off and answer nothing. I'd even reply to texts with some form of out of office message.

I'm not sure that's the best way to handle it.

He is an account manager and from the sounds of it the customer does need him on Saturdays.

I think instead of going nuclear and just refusing to work on Saturday, I think a better option is compromise:

Continue doing what he's doing and talk to the boss to make it formal (e.g. extra pay or whatever).

OldMrBrennan83

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the best way to handle it.

He is an account manager and from the sounds of it the customer does need him on Saturdays.

I think instead of going nuclear and just refusing to work on Saturday, I think a better option is compromise:

Continue doing what he's doing and talk to the boss to make it formal (e.g. extra pay or whatever).

If he was any sort of a boss he'd have made it formal from day one so he's dealing with a pisstaker. I don't see how it's 'going nuclear' either, you set an out of office message on your voicemail (where a message can't be left) with a number for the call center. And likewise for SMS.

"Hi,
I'm currently unavailable on Saturdays, please call xxxxxxxx with any urgent issues. I will respond to non urgent emails on Monday. Thank you.

Regards,
........"

Hardly Hiroshima.

You have to show backbone in a job some time though or you'll get walked on more and more.


_

Leinsterfan18

Thanks for your replies so far, as said above, I'm an account manager so "relationship building" is very important but its a job and I don't feel I should be expected to be on call 24/7 just because my employer has given me a mobile phone.

From 9-10am this morning, another customer problem had to be dealt with by me, Xmas bloody eve.

Im 3 years with the company and 6 months with my new boss but feel I need to have boundaries setup in relation to times I'm expected to be available because its effecting my family life now.
In sales, there seems to be no set hours, your expected to do what needs to be done to hit your sales target.

Bicycle

If you are working 6 days a week then you are most likely in breach of European Working Time directives.

A compromise would be to either (a) work every second Saturday and take time in lieu OR (b) Just cite the European Working Time directives and say that you will work Saturdays but will take Mondays off instead.

You are clearly good at your job and needed, and we are at almost full employment again - so you do have far more wriggle room than you might have had a couple of years ago (and in the future) so take advantage of it. Without being taken advantage of, yourself.

Esse85

I recall reading a similar scenario where an employee took the company to court. See link below. I'm not suggesting you do this but perhaps speak to a legal professional and inform yourself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/executive-awarded-7-500-for-having-to-deal-with-late-night-emails-1.3584537?mode=amp

OMM 0000

Can you tell us your salary?

For example, if I was being paid 120k for this job, I would accept the calls.

Leinsterfan18

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Can you tell us your salary?

For example, if I was being paid 120k for this job, I would accept the calls.

€40k basic

OldMrBrennan83

Leinsterfan18 wrote: »

€40k basic

Put the phone in a drawer on Friday evening then.

OMM 0000

Leinsterfan18 wrote: »

€40k basic

That's not bad.

I think just talk to your boss face to face and clear it up.

Be prepared for a "that's part of the job" response.

If I were you:

Let's say I'm happy in the job. I'd rather stay there.

My boss says "that's part of the job".

I would then seek a compromise.

For example, maybe I can head off a little early on Friday.

Or come in a little later each day.

Something like that where I feel I'm getting a win out of it.

If he refuses and the Saturday thing is really bothering me, or I feel I'm being disrespected, I would start looking for another job.

Leinsterfan18

Patww79 wrote: »

Put the phone in a drawer on Friday evening then.

I'm gonna suggest a salary review with my boss due to the continuous after hours and weekend calls as a result of the extra responsiblity I've been assigned.

I think I need to communicate subtlety that if I'm not given a pay rise, I'll be sticking rigidly to my defined working hours and not working outside out this.
This will obviously damage our relationship as I'm sure others on the team deal with weekend issues but I know for a fact they earn a lot more than I do as they are in the company closer to 10 years whereas I'm only there 3.

Masala

Tell him..."I was covering on Saturday - so am gonna take Monday off" Seems a fair swap

AndrewJRenko

Do you add any real value when dealing with these customer issues? If you're just a 'mailbox' passing information between customers and operations, you're not really adding value.

See if you can come up with a mechanism for cutting yourself out of the process, by automatically routing messages and texts. You should also be holding someone in the organisation accountable for why so many issues are coming up in the first place.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Leinsterfan18 wrote: »

From 9-10am this morning, another customer problem had to be dealt with by me, Xmas bloody eve.
.

I’m going to sound like a b*tch here but Christmas Eve is a normal working day. Unless you’d booked it as annual leave.

The way I would handle this is to speak to your boss, tell him/her you are getting increasing numbers of calls on Saturday so could you take Monday off to compensate. Or agree that you will be available Saturday morning only and take Wednesday afternoon off to compensate etc Outside those agreed hours leave an out of office/emergency line message and enjoy your time off.

Leinsterfan18

Mr.S wrote: »

You need to speak with your boss and define working hours and proper procedure for working on Saturdays. None of this "Work until the targets are met" stuff - what happens when the targets are increased?

In the ideal situation you would do what you do now, phone turned off Friday PM and divert to the call centre.

If Saturday work is a regular thing where you are genuinely needed, you should look into getting the hours / days off in lieu during the week.

My overall aim is to be offered more money to deal with out of office queries.

I'd rather stick to Monday to Friday work and have my weekend to myself.

The conversation I intend to have with my boss is that, since my role changed six months ago, there's been a vast increase in the out of office hours I've worked since, such as after 6pm, and Saturdays, I understand out of hours can be apart of the job, but if I'm expected to be almost on call all the time and available to both the company and to the customers then I should be compensated.

It won't be my bosses decision to offer more pay, he'll need to go to higher powers.

If he comes back and says no increase in pay, I'll be saying this isn't what I signed up for, the company changed the goal posts not me, therefore let's agree in writing the working hours expected of me and I'll strictly adhere to this. I will involve HR at this point.

How does this sound? I feel I'm being fair and reasonable with this proposal but what does everyone else think?

OldMrBrennan83

Sounds spot on. They've basically given you more work for no more money and tried to wrap it up in a 'promotion'.

AndrewJRenko

What value do you add to dealing with these queries? Do they really need your input to address the issues?

Leinsterfan18

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you add any real value when dealing with these customer issues? If you're just a 'mailbox' passing information between customers and operations, you're not really adding value.

See if you can come up with a mechanism for cutting yourself out of the process, by automatically routing messages and texts. You should also be holding someone in the organisation accountable for why so many issues are coming up in the first place.

No I don't add value, I'm simply transferring the message back to operations, liasing with them and following up with the customer.
A customer always rings the account manager with an issue, it's like the lazy option.

Is there a way to auto respond on texts? I couldn't be more clearer on who to call if there's an issue on my voicemail.

Andrew, totally agree on that last point, theres no accountability and no investigation as to what exactly caused the problem and how can we try ensure it doesn't happen again. Too many moving parts and different departments to deal with that there's no accountability.

Leinsterfan18

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

I’m going to sound like a b*tch here but Christmas Eve is a normal working day. Unless you’d booked it as annual leave.

The way I would handle this is to speak to your boss, tell him/her you are getting increasing numbers of calls on Saturday so could you take Monday off to compensate. Or agree that you will be available Saturday morning only and take Wednesday afternoon off to compensate etc Outside those agreed hours leave an out of office/emergency line message and enjoy your time off.

You don't sound like one and I appreciate your advice.
I just want Monday - Friday work. I don't want Saturday work at all.
I will put up with it for an increased salary but having Saturday off is far more valuable to me than Wednesday.

AndrewJRenko

Leinsterfan18 wrote: »

No I don't add value, I'm simply transferring the message back to operations, liasing with them and following up with the customer.
A customer always rings the account manager with an issue, it's like the lazy option.

Is there a way to auto respond on texts? I couldn't be more clearer on who to call if there's an issue on my voicemail.

Andrew, totally agree on that last point, theres no accountability and no investigation as to what exactly caused the problem and how can we try ensure it doesn't happen again. Too many moving parts and different departments to deal with that there's no accountability.

For me, this is the most interesting issue, far more interesting for the long term prospects of the business than the question of whether you work on Saturdays or not.


If you really, really want to make a difference to business, persuade your boss to give you whatever authority and time is required to make sure that the issues that arise frequently don't occur in the first place, or become very rare events instead of routine screw-ups.


Then you'll e able to enjoy your Saturday's in peace.

Leinsterfan18

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

For me, this is the most interesting issue, far more interesting for the long term prospects of the business than the question of whether you work on Saturdays or not.


If you really, really want to make a difference to business, persuade your boss to give you whatever authority and time is required to make sure that the issues that arise frequently don't occur in the first place, or become very rare events instead of routine screw-ups.


Then you'll e able to enjoy your Saturday's in peace.

There's so many moving parts to this that there's inevitably gonna be a breakdown such as:

For example, imagine you do your online grocery shopping with Tesco for example, all the below can happen plus much more:

-Product out of stock
-order typed in wrong by call centre person
-wrong item picked in warehouse
-product being put on incorrect truck for delivery
-product arriving to customer damaged and therefore no good.
-incorrect price

All separate departments that an order must go through and the more hands an order touches the more chance there is of a misdemeanor.

antodeco

I was in sales for years, in a multitude of roles and levels, and unfortunately your scenario describes alot of sales jobs out there. Some sales jobs are being available 7 days a week, but not actually working. This is not officially, but if you wanted to make a sale you'd make sure you were available.

To me, this sounds out the customer expectation of YOU is where you need to start. It's very easy to become a customer service agent when in sales. I've ran sales teams before and told them that you are paid to sell, and customer services are paid to resolves the issues. Now, that's with one caveat. Customer services don't deal with issues due to be missile. That's the sales persons issues.

It may be easier when selling the product, explaining the support process. "As I'm not in the office, I don't have access to alot of the systems/supports, so for the best response contact X". I've always advised people to also follow up that if they're getting nowhere, that you can "internally raise the issue for them". In that scenario you need to ensure your boss is on your side. IE: That customer services are being held accountable for not resolving issues. Remember that you are simply raising the issue internally, but against manage the customer expectations. "I can raise it internally, and I'll.make sure someone contacts you (as per the whole boss and accountability issue above).

The key to a sales role is managing the customer expectations. You are in sales. You setup the product as per the customer requirements. All issues have to go through the relevant support channels, as you cannot access the systems. It takes a bit of getting used to, but in the long run, it saves alot of hassle for you. But again, one thing to remember, if by not helping the customer you will lose the sale, you need to balance this in.

AndrewJRenko

Leinsterfan18 wrote: »

There's so many moving parts to this that there's inevitably gonna be a breakdown such as:

For example, imagine you do your online grocery shopping with Tesco for example, all the below can happen plus much more:

-Product out of stock
-order typed in wrong by call centre person
-wrong item picked in warehouse
-product being put on incorrect truck for delivery
-product arriving to customer damaged and therefore no good.
-incorrect price

All separate departments that an order must go through and the more hands an order touches the more chance there is of a misdemeanor.

Yeah, I've spent a lot of time on order management systems, and I've seen all these issues and more. And there are solutions to all of them, using technology, quality checks, accountability and more. It's not at all easy, but there is a good chance that you'll get to cover 80% of the problems with 20% of the solutions.


If this stuff is happening every day or every week, the business has much bigger issues than whether you work Saturday or not.