Mary Robinson and the Princess

dubrov

seamus wrote:

What is Robinson supposed to say? "Yes, although the young lady appeared well cared for, happy, and free, I have seen the videos and heard the rumours and therefore I must assume that what I saw was nothing more than a farce put on for my benefit".

I think the point is that she showed very poor judgement when agreeing to this sham at all.

touts

It was a no win trip for Mary Robinson. If she found that the girl was not mentally unwell and a prisoner of her family then she would be called a lacky of the metoo movement with a predetermined opinion. If she found that the girl was mentally unwell and was not a prisoner of her family she would be called a lacky of the ruling class with a predetermined opinion. If she found something in the middle she would be called indecisive by both sides.

Basically it shows remarkably bad judgement of her to agree to the visit.

clearz

To the people saying they should have been publicly offered a state visit to Ireland. What would happen if she tried to claim asylum while here? We would really have inserted ourselves into the middle of an international incident of our own making.

seamus

clearz wrote: »

To the people saying they should have been publicly offered a state visit to Ireland. What would happen if she tried to claim asylum while here? We would really have inserted ourselves into the middle of an international incident of our own making.

Playing nice with the Saudi government would not be top of my personal nice-to-haves. I would like to see them treated with the contempt they deserve tbh.

clearz

seamus wrote: »

Playing nice with the Saudi government would not be top of my personal nice-to-haves. I would like to see them treated with the contempt they deserve tbh.

I totally agree and although I'm not the biggest fan of Justin Trudeau I respect him for offering that young Saudi lass asylum in Canada.

Harry Palmr

Well well well.


From the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/12/india-swapped-british-arms-dealer-dubais-princess-latifa/

full article is behind paywall.

A British arms consultant at the centre of a bribery scandal over a helicopter deal in India was exchanged for a runaway Dubai princes in an extraordinary quid pro quo extradition, sources have told The Sunday Telegraph.

Christian Michel, 57, described as a “smooth” business dealer by detectives from the Central Bureau of Intelligence (CBI), was extradited from the United Arab Emirates last month to face police over a deal that has sent shockwaves across the political and military spheres of New Delhi.

He was handed over to India in an exchange for Princess Sheikha Latifa bint Mohammed al-Maktoum, daughter of Dubai's ruler, who was intercepted by the India Navy during her attempt to flee the UAE last year.

The princess's capture off the coast of Goa drew global attention for her dramatic escape from Dubai in a yacht with the aid of a French spy as she allegedly sought asylum for mistreatment by the royal family.

European and Asian diplomatic sources in New Delhi told The Sunday Telegraph they believe India struck a deal to swap Ms Latifa with Mr Michel, who owns a residence and company in Dubai but has long been wanted by Indian authorities.

jay0109

NY Times article in today's IT. Doesn't make for good reading for supporters of Mary Robinson

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/a-princess-vanishes-a-video-offers-alarming-clues-1.3789667

feargale

jay0109 wrote: »

NY Times article in today's IT. Doesn't make for good reading for supporters of Mary Robinson

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/a-princess-vanishes-a-video-offers-alarming-clues-1.3789667

This is shocking. Mary Robinson may have been unwittingly sucked in, but it is high time for her to set about repairing the damage. She should immediately invite the princess to Ireland. And the Irish government should get off the fence. I would prefer to see Dublin profit from being the prostitution capital of the world than see us sell our souls for a few equine siring fees.

expectationlost

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well well well.


From the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/12/india-swapped-british-arms-dealer-dubais-princess-latifa/

full article is behind paywall.

UAE's said that French guy kidnapped/ransomed her, but they had him in jail and let him go...

expectationlost

seamus wrote: »

There are a couple of lunatics around with a deep hatred for Mary Robinson.

This is a bizarre story anyway. You could be pretty sure if any of us were to visit like Robinson did, we too would find a young woman who outwardly appears to be fine and well-treated. House arrest notwithstanding.

What is Robinson supposed to say? "Yes, although the young lady appeared well cared for, happy, and free, I have seen the videos and heard the rumours and therefore I must assume that what I saw was nothing more than a farce put on for my benefit".

In her own words, "I undertook the visit and made an assessment, not a judgement, based on personal witness, in good faith and to the best of my ability.”

It was alleged the princess was in danger, or possibly even dead, Robinson made the visit to confirm the situation and found a very much alive woman in no apparent danger and in good health.

I would tend to agree with the assessment that Robinson has somewhat allowed herself to be used as a pawn for PR - "The princess is fine, nothing to see here" - but I don't really know what alternative there was. Refuse to go and find out if the princess is alive?

visit her but not say she is a "“a troubled young woman”".

AndrewJRenko

seamus wrote: »

This is a bizarre story anyway. You could be pretty sure if any of us were to visit like Robinson did, we too would find a young woman who outwardly appears to be fine and well-treated. House arrest notwithstanding.

What is Robinson supposed to say? "Yes, although the young lady appeared well cared for, happy, and free, I have seen the videos and heard the rumours and therefore I must assume that what I saw was nothing more than a farce put on for my benefit".

How about when she got the invite, she said "I'd love to come but I'm awful busy, why don't you send her over to London and I'll meet here there for lunch and a chat? We can get an assessment by some independent mental health experts while were there to judge the situation properly." - easily done for members of a royal family, unless they had some other motive for not letting her leave the country

Muahahaha

seamus wrote: »

Playing nice with the Saudi government would not be top of my personal nice-to-haves. I would like to see them treated with the contempt they deserve tbh.

Me neither but I think the Department of Foreign Affairs is in bed with the Saudi government a lot more than we realise. A couple of recent signals of this- the SBP reported that there are 25 Saudi diplomats working out of the Dublin embassy. There is only half that amount in their London embassy. Then a couple of weeks ago it was reported the Saudis were selling a state bond worth €7bn. The bond was oversubscribed by four times with bids from lots of global institions. The entire transactions was not done in New York, Frankfurt or London as you might expect, it was all done here in Dublin in the IFSC.

All of the above would explain why Simon Coveney was very mute over the execution of Jamal Khalshoggi. He did address it but it was the usual guff of "concern" and "monitoring the situation". It would seem pretty clear that there is no way the DFA would want to piss off the Saudis when they are fully aware they're using Dublin to sell their state bonds. Our relationship with the Saudi dictatorship would seem to be real politick at its ugly best.

jm08

expectationlost wrote: »

visit her but not say she is a "“a troubled young woman”".

Its United Arab Emirates, not Saudi Arabia.

My reading of it is that the Princess seems to have some mental problems. For a muslim woman she seems to have been able to mix freely with non-Emirati/muslims and was best friends with a woman from Finland. She also was a skydiver! That doesn't sound like she was leading a horrible life bearing in mind that she is a muslim woman.

The Frenchman who is a spy who arranged her 'escape' sounds dodgy tbh and could have been taking advantage of her (and maybe her Finnish friend).

jm08

Muahahaha wrote: »

Me neither but I think the Department of Foreign Affairs is in bed with the Saudi government a lot more than we realise. A couple of recent signals of this- the SBP reported that there are 25 Saudi diplomats working out of the Dublin embassy. There is only half that amount in their London embassy. Then a couple of weeks ago it was reported the Saudis were selling a state bond worth €7bn. The bond was oversubscribed by four times with bids from lots of global institions. The entire transactions was not done in New York, Frankfurt or London as you might expect, it was all done here in Dublin in the IFSC.

All of the above would explain why Simon Coveney was very mute over the execution of Jamal Khalshoggi. He did address it but it was the usual guff of "concern" and "monitoring the situation". It would seem pretty clear that there is no way the DFA would want to piss off the Saudis when they are fully aware they're using Dublin to sell their state bonds. Our relationship with the Saudi dictatorship would seem to be real politick at its ugly best.

Far more likely that the DFA are keeping their head down in an effort to not annoy anyone when they are seeking votes for the rotating seat on the UN Security Council.

feargale

jm08 wrote: »

Its United Arab Emirates, not Saudi Arabia.

My reading of it is that the Princess seems to have some mental problems. For a muslim woman she seems to have been able to mix freely with non-Emirati/muslims and was best friends with a woman from Finland. She also was a skydiver! That doesn't sound like she was leading a horrible life bearing in mind that she is a muslim woman.

The Frenchman who is a spy who arranged her 'escape' sounds dodgy tbh and could have been taking advantage of her (and maybe her Finnish friend).

So, you think so. For the last bloody time let her be invited to Ireland. Then maybe you will get an inkling of how free she is. Armchair psychiatry on the basis of having observed her in a tv news item is not the way to go with this.

jm08

feargale wrote: »

So, you think so. For the last bloody time let her be invited to Ireland. Then maybe you will get an inkling of how free she is. Armchair psychiatry on the basis of having observed her in a tv news item is not the way to go with this.

Its not armchair psychiatry - I haven't seen her on tv. I'm just looking at how she managed to become a close friend with a Finnish woman and one of her hobbies is sky diving, which is a bit of a step up from women not being able to drive a car in some muslim countries.

Being the daughter of the PM of Dubai would bring some serious restrictions (security wise). As you can see with what happened, she is vulnerable to kidnapping and ransom demands.

jay0109

jm08 wrote: »

Its not armchair psychiatry - I haven't seen her on tv. I'm just looking at how she managed to become a close friend with a Finnish woman and one of her hobbies is sky diving, which is a bit of a step up from women not being able to drive a car in some muslim countries.

Being the daughter of the PM of Dubai would bring some serious restrictions (security wise). As you can see with what happened, she is vulnerable to kidnapping and ransom demands.

Read the NY Times article on the last page. It explains all that

Ash.J.Williams

For a start who does Mary Robinson think she is offering her "analysis"...

AndrewJRenko

jm08 wrote: »

Its not armchair psychiatry - I haven't seen her on tv. I'm just looking at how she managed to become a close friend with a Finnish woman and one of her hobbies is sky diving, which is a bit of a step up from women not being able to drive a car in some muslim countries.

Being the daughter of the PM of Dubai would bring some serious restrictions (security wise). As you can see with what happened, she is vulnerable to kidnapping and ransom demands.

The Finnish friend was her fitness instructor.


The vulnerability to kidnapping seems to be down to her own family.

jm08

jay0109 wrote: »

Read the NY Times article on the last page. It explains all that

I've read that article, watched the BBC documentary (including her video before her escape) and read an article in the Guardian from 2001 about her 18 year old sister who ran away in 2001 while in England.

In the video she said that if anyone was watching this video, she would probably be dead or worse in terrible circumstances. What I don't understand is if this is what was to happen, how come the French spy (who could be accused of kidnapping) or the Finnish woman are not dead or at least rotting in some jail somewhere?

When her older sister ran away, the Guardian spoke to some of the English/western people she was friendly with who worked at her father's stud farm. They said she had a good life, but she resented very much always having a security person with her for example. They said she really envied them their freedom and their ability to do what they liked. When she did disappear, they thought she was kidnapped.

The plan she had was to seek asylum in US. To be eligible for asylum, she would need good reason such as her life was in danger or that she was tortured by her family.

Probably a consequence of her status in life is lacking freedom, in a similar way that the British Royal family lack freedom except they live in a western society so don't get the same level of protection.

jm08

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Finnish friend was her fitness instructor.

The vulnerability to kidnapping seems to be down to her own family.

Well, that is the luck of the draw if you are born into a family that is vulnerable to being kidnapped. The Obama daughters are protected at all times by the the Secret Service, British Royal family etc. Nothing you can do about that if you are from a prominent family.

AndrewJRenko

jm08 wrote: »

Well, that is the luck of the draw if you are born into a family that is vulnerable to being kidnapped. The Obama daughters are protected at all times by the the Secret Service, British Royal family etc. Nothing you can do about that if you are from a prominent family.

She's an adult being held prisoner by her own family. If she wants to travel out of Dubai, she should be able to do so.

jm08

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

She's an adult being held prisoner by her own family. If she wants to travel out of Dubai, she should be able to do so.

She is claiming a bit more than that. She is claiming “imprisonment, torture and abuse” by her own family which doesn't really fit in with the lifestyle of sky diving, western friends etc.

jay0109

jm08 wrote: »

She is claiming a bit more than that. She is claiming “imprisonment, torture and abuse” by her own family which doesn't really fit in with the lifestyle of sky diving, western friends etc.

I'm not sure what your agenda is. But the story as presented so far seems to be way off from your reading into it...IMO of course

AndrewJRenko

jm08 wrote: »

She is claiming a bit more than that. She is claiming “imprisonment, torture and abuse” by her own family which doesn't really fit in with the lifestyle of sky diving, western friends etc.

Western friend - singular, not plural, right? And friend was actually employee. And historical, so no western friend is in place now, right?

jm08

jay0109 wrote: »

I'm not sure what your agenda is. But the story as presented so far seems to be way off from your reading into it...IMO of course

I don't have an agenda other than I think that her story doesn't really add up. I think some people here have some sort of an anti Mary Robinson agenda going on more than anything else.

How? I'm going on what she said on her video - that her life was in danger and that she has been tortured. In the video she said if anyone was watching this she was either dead or in serious trouble. She isn't dead and neither are her friends who tried to liberate her.

For someone who was imprisoned, she was able to contact the French spy and correspond with him frequently by email and she also had about 400K in funds. She could also go and visit her friend the Finnish woman in her apartment.

While she may resent not being able to travel freely, its not really surprising considering who her father is. That article in the Guardian from 2001 said that after her elder sister ran away, her father sold their English estate where up to then, the whole family had spent every summer there.

expectationlost

Former president Mary Robinson has no regrets over Dubai princess visit https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-president-mary-robinson-has-no-regrets-over-dubai-princess-visit-905272.html

Speaking after an event in Trinity College Dublin on Monday, she defended her decision to get involved saying she “went to help a friend”.

it isn't Haya that needs a friend.

feargale

jm08 wrote: »

She is claiming a bit more than that. She is claiming “imprisonment, torture and abuse” by her own family which doesn't really fit in with the lifestyle of sky diving, western friends etc.

So if she's not surviving on bread, water and maybe a little cheese she is q free. Huh? It costs those freeloaders nothing to provide what in some respects is a relatively luxourious lifestyle. Would you freely go to Mountjoy if they laid on skydiving for you? It seems she wishes to have the life of a commoner.

Of course, in that open, democratic society that is Dubai the facts are easily dicernible. Right?

How often must I say it? Invite her to Ireland, then wait and see.

jm08

feargale wrote: »

So if she's not surviving on bread, water and maybe a little cheese she is not free. Huh? It costs those freeloaders nothing to provide what in some respects is a relatively luxourious lifestyle. Would you freely go to Mountjoy if they laid on skydiving for you? It seems she wishes to have the life of a commoner.

Of course, in that open, democratic society that is Dubai the facts are easily dicernible. Right?

How often must I say it? Invite her to Ireland, then wait and see.

She is claiming that her life is under threat and that she has been tortured by her father.

Do you find that believable, because I don't.

jay0109

jm08 wrote: »

She is claiming that her life is under threat and that she has been tortured by her father.

Do you find that believable, because I don't.

This is the UAE we're talking about, not Narnia