Mary Robinson and the Princess

feargale

jm08 wrote: »

She is claiming that her life is under threat and that she has been tortured by her father.

Do you find that believable, because I don't.

If Daddy said nobody is under threat and nobody has ever been tortured in UAE would you believe it?

I find it difficult to get my head around any Irish person other than a horse breeder or a jockey believing a benign version of this story. The authorities aren't even making much effort to justify their position. They don't need to. They have UAE by the cobblers, and also those in the west who prefer big bucks (or dirhams and dinars) to human rights.

I bet you can't tell us who topped the poll in the last elections in Dubai.

jm08

feargale wrote: »

If Daddy said nobody is under threat and nobody has ever been tortured in UAE would you believe it?

I find it difficult to get my head around any Irish person other than a horse breeder or a jockey believing a benign version of this story. The authorities aren't even making much effort to justify their position. They don't need to. They have UAE by the cobblers, and also those in the west who prefer big bucks (or dirhams and dinars) to human rights.

I bet you can't tell us who topped the poll in the last elections in Dubai.

What doesn't add up for me is that she is still alive because according to her video her father would kill her, having tortured her.

And what really doesn't add up is how her two western friends are alive and well and free to go about their business and are not at the minimum rotting in some UAE jail if not dead.

AndrewJRenko

jm08 wrote: »

feargale wrote: »

If Daddy said nobody is under threat and nobody has ever been tortured in UAE would you believe it?

I find it difficult to get my head around any Irish person other than a horse breeder or a jockey believing a benign version of this story. The authorities aren't even making much effort to justify their position. They don't need to. They have UAE by the cobblers, and also those in the west who prefer big bucks (or dirhams and dinars) to human rights.

I bet you can't tell us who topped the poll in the last elections in Dubai.

What doesn't add up for me is that she is still alive because according to her video her father would kill her, having tortured her.

And what really doesn't add up is how her two western friends are alive and well and free to go about their business and are not at the minimum rotting in some UAE jail if not dead.

It would a remarkably foolish tactic for Daddy to make enemies of the Finnish and French governments and people for no benefit.

jm08

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It would a remarkably foolish tactic for Daddy to make enemies of the Finnish and French governments and people for no benefit.

They could have killed them when taking her from the yacht and say these people were kidnapping her. The Indian Government didn't have a problem assisting the UAE over this issue.



Middle Eastern Countries don't have a problem throwing westerners in jail for the flimsiest of reasons.

Danzy

Her boat crew were tortured after the special forces raid on it.

People often go missing in the UAE, torture, especially sexual torture is endemic in prisons there, by the staff.

Her Uncle was videoed a couple years ago torturing a man and then go finishing him off by driving over him with a car.

The ruling Sheikh has had to settle in America for torturing people.

Personally involved in torture, not just signing off on it.

Muahahaha

jm08 wrote: »

Far more likely that the DFA are keeping their head down in an effort to not annoy anyone when they are seeking votes for the rotating seat on the UN Security Council.

Ah yeah, free U2 tickets for diplomats in the hope we get a seat on the security council. Isn't both the UAE and Saudi Arabia already members of the UN Human Rights Council. You couldn't make it up....

AndrewJRenko

jm08 wrote: »

They could have killed them when taking her from the yacht and say these people were kidnapping her. The Indian Government didn't have a problem assisting the UAE over this issue.



Middle Eastern Countries don't have a problem throwing westerners in jail for the flimsiest of reasons.

What's in it for them? Why would they want to kill them?

jm08

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's in it for them? Why would they want to kill them?

Latifa didn't explain why she would be killed in her video, she just claimed that she would be.

finbar10

jm08 wrote: »

Latifa didn't explain why she would be killed in her video, she just claimed that she would be.

Latifa is not exactly a neutral and detached participant in this whole incident and her being prone to assuming the worst isn't exactly unexpected!

Looking at this from a wider perspective, this isn't even the first such incident (perhaps one might be willing to give more of the benefit of the doubt to the Maktoums if it actually was), e.g. the snatch and grab of Princess Shamsa from the streets of Cambridge in 2001 and who hasn't been seen since. Mary Robinson's buddy, Princess Haya, isn't even Latifa's mother. Again, things might be more plausible if she was. Instead, she is rather the UK educated and more acceptable facade of the royal house, probably just being wheeled out for damage control. Shamsa's and Latifa's mother seems to been just one of the uninfluential minor wives.

I suspect Latifa would have been one of the very few with insight into her full sister Shamsa's actual circumstances (seemingly drugged to the gills and carefully sequestered from the world, no doubt confined to some building somewhere with a coterie of minders, for the past 18 years). I'd expect the same fate awaits for Latifa for the remainder of her life (initially bridling against the restrictions of a gilded cage but then trading it for something much worse).

I assume Mary Robinson, given her long association with the Maktoums, cannot have been unaware of the earlier Princess Shamsa controversy, which should have given her pause for thought with regard to wading into his whole tawdry situation. Evidently not though. "Troubled young woman" indeed. Presumably Princess Shamsa was similarly "troubled".

Danzy

finbar10 wrote: »

Latifa is not exactly a neutral and detached participant in this whole incident and her being prone to assuming the worst isn't exactly unexpected!

Looking at this from a wider perspective, this isn't even the first such incident (perhaps one might be willing to give more of the benefit of the doubt to the Maktoums if it actually was), e.g. the snatch and grab of Princess Shamsa from the streets of Cambridge in 2001 and who hasn't been seen since. Mary Robinson's buddy, Princess Haya, isn't even Latifa's mother. Again, things might be more plausible if she was. Instead, she is rather the UK educated and more acceptable facade of the royal house, probably just being wheeled out for damage control. Shamsa's and Latifa's mother seems to been just one of the uninfluential minor wives.

I suspect Latifa would have been one of the very few with insight into her full sister Shamsa's actual circumstances (seemingly drugged to the gills and carefully sequestered from the world, no doubt confined to some building somewhere with a coterie of minders, for the past 18 years). I'd expect the same fate awaits for Latifa for the remainder of her life (initially bridling against the restrictions of a gilded cage but then trading it for something much worse).

I assume Mary Robinson, given her long association with the Maktoums, cannot have been unaware of the earlier Princess Shamsa controversy, which should have given her pause for thought with regard to wading into his whole tawdry situation. Evidently not though. "Troubled young woman" indeed. Presumably Princess Shamsa was similarly "troubled".

Robinson went along with it because they are extremely wealthy and good friends to have.

The daughters are acceptable losses, the torture their, the disappearances, the murder, turn a blind eye when it is one of the richest in the World.

Ash.J.Williams

Mary back in the news because the "troubled young womans" step mother has only gone and done a runner..

Palmach

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Mary back in the news because the "troubled young womans" step mother has only gone and done a runner..

Mary looking foolish again.

feargale

jm08 wrote: »

Middle Eastern Countries don't have a problem throwing westerners in jail for the flimsiest of reasons.

And less of a problem doing it to their own people.

Balf

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Mary back in the news because the "troubled young womans" step mother has only gone and done a runner..

Looks very uncomfortable, as Mary's only UAE friend, Haya, seems to be saying the allegations in Latifa's video are substantially true.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48843168

Mary, on the basis of her on-the-spot "assessment", was happy to say Latifa has mental problems and regretted making the video. Could she at least say if she stands by her public assessment?

That said, it looks like there will be the mother of all divorce cases in London. Presumably, Haya's polygamous marriage to the Sheikh is only valid if she is domiciled in Dubai. Where that leaves things like custody of the kids is anyone's guess. So I guess there's a strong incentive to present this as a flight to asylum, and not just another divorce of wealthy people. Particularly if there's no valid marriage to dissolve.

Wonder how Hello will report it. Apparently, there isn't a peep about the story in mainstream Jordan or Dubai media. And 'Emirates Woman' will obviously need to hold back on their usual provocative investigative journalism.

https://emirateswoman.com/sheikh-mohammed-and-princess-haya-were-the-perfect-couple/

Harry Palmr

The BBC Two are reshowing the documentary about Sheikha Latifa tonight after Newsnight which may have a bit of a on this story

Ash.J.Williams

Mary and her "assessment "....

Muahahaha

Wonder where this will twist next. Between the Sheiks amateur poetry on Instagram, the High Court divorce battle and UK arms deals with the UAE things are set to get interesting. Was reading that Haya is staying in her £90m gaff in Kensington and has hired a security company led by ex-Met and MI5 types to prevent her being kidnapped (as happened another UAE princess on the streets of Cambridge)

Balf

Good RTE interview on the topic here:

https://player.fm/series/rt-marian-finucane-1324431/detained-in-dubai

Catches the puzzlement folk have over what exactly is going on, and why Mary Robinson put herself in the middle of it.

The extract from Haya's RTE interview last December is almost prophetic. She said she'd do a runner with the kids if she thought any of Latifa's claims were true.

And now she's done a runner with the kids.

Fergus Finlay probably expresses the mainstream view. Mary R must have had good intentions. But why did she think this was a situation to interfere with when the UN was already pursuing the case, and why did she comment in public on whether Latifa had mental health issues.

More to come on this story, I suspect.

ILoveYourVibes

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

They would say she's mad or "deeply troubled"

She looks well fed. She didnt show any marks or bruises.
Its actually an insulting comparison.


She speaks English she is clearly educated to a high level. That doesn't sound like a little girl raised by the taliban.

Most women came out of the Magdalene laundries several malnourished emaciated and illiterate.

ILoveYourVibes

Balf wrote: »

More to come on this story, I suspect.

Nasty divorce to follow I suspect.

Sonny noggs

Balf wrote: »

Fergus Finlay probably expresses the mainstream view. Mary R must have had good intentions. But why did she think this was a situation to interfere with when the UN was already pursuing the case, and why did she comment in public on whether Latifa had mental health issues.

More to come on this story, I suspect.

Finlay is in no way impartial, he has strong ties to Robinson. He is most likely expressing the view that she wants us to have of the story.

feargale

Muahahaha wrote: »

Between the Sheiks amateur poetry on Instagram.

I'm afraid I don't speak Arabic and I'm wondering if there's a translation of the poetry available.
Does it go something like this?

Sweet jeepers and sweet snakes alive!
How did this trouble arrive?
My wives were once six
But one has upped sticks
And now I'm reduced to just five.

Balf

Coming up for a year ago, and still not really clear on what this was about

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/11/why-do-dubais-princesses-keep-trying-to-escape

.... while Latifa and Haya reportedly barely knew each other and had met only at formal events, according to Jauhianinen, Haya, whose global reputation was utterly spotless until this point, stepped into the breach. As a UN Messenger of Peace, she had become friendly with Mary Robinson, the first female president of Ireland in the 1990s and now a humanitarian. Now, Haya apparently asked Robinson to fly to Dubai and help sort out the situation with Latifa, which Haya called a “family dilemma.”

It’s unclear if, before her trip, Robinson knew that she would be asked to take pictures and make a public statement in Dubai. But after a day of talking with the family and walking through their gardens, she sat down at lunch with Latifa while photographers snapped shots of the two of them at the table. Robinson smiles courteously, but Latifa, for her part, looks confused. Her hair is barely brushed. She is wearing jeans and a dark purple sweatshirt, a somewhat inappropriate costume for a formal and photographed lunch. In perhaps a self-protective move, she had zipped her sweatshirt all the way to the top.

Robinson explained, to the press, that Latifa was “troubled.” She continued, “She made a video that she now regrets and she planned an escape, or what was part of a plan of escape.” Robinson said Latifa needed psychiatric care, and she was comforted that Dubai’s royal family was administering it.

Now this was quite the bit of royal theater and, in the West, considered overwhelmingly strange. In Ireland, Robinson was immediately called out as a stooge for the Dubai royal family—and Haya raced to her defense. On one of Ireland’s top radio programs, Haya did her best to defend her friend. Haya said she’d called Robinson because when “faced with a situation in life that’s so profound and it’s deeply attached to your values, your family, and situations that are complex and difficult, I’ve always learned in my life to ask for counsel.” She added, “It is a private family matter and I don’t want to go any more deeply into it for the protection of Latifa herself, and to ensure she’s not used by anyone else.”

Even as the interviewer pressed her for answers about Latifa, Haya refused to give more details about her stepdaughter’s departure and simply kept stressing that she was “really, really, very, very sorry that my actions have led to the criticism of a person that I so deeply respect and admire,” meaning Robinson. Haya also added, “If I thought for a second any shred of this was true,” meaning Latifa’s story about feeling oppressed, misused, and imprisoned, “I wouldn’t put up with it or stand for it.”

Several months later, Haya left Dubai.

Harry Palmr

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/05/dubai-ruler-sheikh-mohammed-organised-kidnapping-of-his-children-uk-court-finds

The ruler of Dubai orchestrated the abductions two of his children – one from the streets of Cambridge – and subjected his youngest wife to a campaign of “intimidation”, a damning UK family court judgment has found.

In findings that risk destabilising diplomatic relations with the United Arab Emirates – a close Gulf ally of Britain – the actions of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum were described by the judge as behaviour which, on the balance of probabilities, amounts to potentially breaking UK and international law.

The Guardian and other news organisations can reveal the ruling following months of private hearings and a legal dispute that reached the supreme court. It details an extraordinary family saga spanning 20 years during which the sheikh, 70, organised international kidnappings, imprisoned two of his daughters and “deprived [them] of their liberty”.

McFarlane’s judgment explains that his ruling “may well involve findings, albeit on the civil standard, of behaviour which is contrary to the criminal law of England and Wales, international law, international maritime law, and internationally accepted human rights norms”.

The civil standard is a conclusion made on the balance of probabilities; that is, the allegation is more likely than not to be true. It is not a finding to the criminal standard, which is beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't foresee a "Death of a Princess" type reaction (google it if you're too young!) but could be a bit frosty for a while.

Associated article which was updated a few weeks ago https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/11/why-do-dubais-princesses-keep-trying-to-escape

donaghs

jm08 wrote: »

I don't have an agenda other than I think that her story doesn't really add up. I think some people here have some sort of an anti Mary Robinson agenda going on more than anything else.

How? I'm going on what she said on her video - that her life was in danger and that she has been tortured. In the video she said if anyone was watching this she was either dead or in serious trouble. She isn't dead and neither are her friends who tried to liberate her.

For someone who was imprisoned, she was able to contact the French spy and correspond with him frequently by email and she also had about 400K in funds. She could also go and visit her friend the Finnish woman in her apartment.

While she may resent not being able to travel freely, its not really surprising considering who her father is. That article in the Guardian from 2001 said that after her elder sister ran away, her father sold their English estate where up to then, the whole family had spent every summer there.

So was Mary Robinson right? Are they all grand in the family?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51756984 "The rulings have been welcomed by human rights campaigners."

Balf

And with one bound, she is free

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/robinson-s-visit-to-dubai-in-spotlight-after-uk-court-ruling-1.4194500

Mrs Robinson, who was attending an event in Dublin on Thursday evening to mark the 250th anniversary of Trinity College’s Historical Society, declined to comment on the UK court’s ruling. A spokeswoman for TCD said the university’s former chancellor was attending the event to speak solely on the subject of climate change and sustainable development.

Muahahaha

Its not only Robbo who wants to sweep this under the carpet, the Queen too is close to Sheikh al Maktoum through horse racing, she even awarded him the trophy just at Royal Ascot just last year and its believed they have traded racehorses together

It'll be interesting now where this goes. It came out in the trial that when he ordered the kidnapping and abducted hos daughter Princess Shamsa off the streets of Cambridge in 2001 the investigating police officer was denied his request by the Crown Prosecution Service to travel to Dubai to investigate further. Someone wanted the police investigation to go nowhere and thats exactly what happened. Now MPs are calling for it to be re-opened and investigated properly.

The UK Foreign Office also have a file on the kidnapping but refused to divulge it for this civil trial. Ive no doubt there is a smoking gun in that file where agents of MI5/6 knew exactly what was going on with the kidnapping on British soil, they'd be incompetent if they didnt.

Harry Palmr

The Gulf is a pit of malignancy when it comes to western nations.

'Beyond Petroleum' eh? Can't come soon enough.

Muahahaha

Some detail on the kidnapping and abduction of Princess Shamsa in Cambridge, 200o

Two decades ago, 19-year-old Princess Shamsa was snatched from the street in Cambridge.

She and two friends had visited a bar. Later that evening, a car pulled up and, by her account, at least four armed men were inside. She claimed they were Dubai nationals from Sheikh Mohammed’s personal staff. Shamsa said she was ordered into the car, driven to a property in Newmarket and flown to Dubai by private jet the next day.

These events in August 2000 triggered a police investigation, accusations of diplomatic interference and questions about the behaviour of one of the UK’s most distinguished royal visitors.

The previous month, Shamsa had fled the Longcross estate near Chobham, Surrey, where her father – Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the vice-president and prime minister of the United Arab Emirates and ruler of Dubai – had installed the family for the summer. Her mother, Houria Ahmed Lamara, is Algerian.

Slipping through an open gate to Chobham Common, Shamsa made her way from Surrey to a temporary hostel in south London. She went to see an immigration solicitor and sought advice about remaining in Britain.

She then travelled to Cambridge, from where she was abducted. In an email she later managed to smuggle out from captivity in Dubai to the solicitor, Shamsa alleged: “I was caught by my father, he managed to track me down through someone I kept in touch with.

“I was caught on the 19th August, in Cambridge. He sent four Arab men to catch me, they were carrying guns and threatening me, they drove me to my father’s place in Newmarket, there they gave me two injections and a handful of tablets, the very next morning a helicopter came and flew me to the plane, which took me back to Dubai. I am locked up until today.”

She added: “I haven’t seen anyone, not even the man you call my father. I told you this would happen … I know these people, they have all the money, they have all the power, they think they can do anything. You said that if he kidnapped me, you would contact the Home Office and involve them. Now, I am not only asking you to report this immediately, I am asking your help and to involve the authorities (involve everyone).”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/05/kidnapping-case-what-happened-to-sheikh-mohammeds-daughters

She was 19 years of age in 2000 so is 39 now. She hasnt been seen in public since her kidnapping, no one is ever sure if she is alive.

Princess Lafifa who tried to escape over the border with Oman in 2002 was caught and put in prison:-

“It was constant torture, constant torture, even when they weren’t physically beating me up, they were torturing me,” said Latifa. “They would make sounds to harass me and then they would come in the middle of the night, to pull me out of bed, to beat me …”

She then escaped again in 2018 and also hasnt been seen in public since the infamous Mary Robinson charade.

I think Robbo got blindsided in this whole thing. Princess Haya told her that Latifa was fine and just a troubled woman who needed help. At the time Haya herself had been lied to by the Sheikh.

But whatever about the deception that they put Robbo through now she knows the truth she has a duty to speak out. Robbo knows these people since Haya was living in Ireland and riding horses in Kildare. The UK court case has laid bare that the Sheikh abducted his own daughters against their will, tortured at least one of them and neither has been seen in public since. If Robbo doesnt speak out now that all the facts are public she has lost all credibility as someone who claims to be a human rights lawyer.

Balf

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think Robbo got blindsided in this whole thing. Princess Haya told her that Latifa was fine and just a troubled woman who needed help. At the time Haya herself had been lied to by the Sheikh.

It seems a little complicated, and there are a few different timelines involved.

For instance, Haya seems to have commenced an extra-marital affair with a bodyguard in 2017. Her hubby seemed to be noticing, notwithstanding the challenge in keeping track of six wives.

Anyway, on 6th December 2018 BBC broadcast a programme on Latifa and the allegations she was being held captive. So these claims were publicly known. The UNHCR had formally asked UAE for evidence that Latifa was still alive.

On 10 December, according to various newspaper reports, Haya contacted Robbo - so this is a context where the case is already publicly known to be controversial from a human rights point of view. Robbo arrives in Dubai on 15 December - which is when the famous pictures are taken.

Then, as we know, only a few months later Haya makes a run for it, saying she'd been misled.

Complex situation, that needs to be unpicked.But, yes, Robbo does need to explain how she managed to place herself right in the middle of this. She says herself that she wrote to the UNHCR at the time with her "assessment' that Latifa was receiving treatment for mental health issue. Does she stand by her assessment? If wrong, does she need to retract her public statements from that time?