Its bash the landlord time again

Graces7

Old diesel wrote: »

Do HAP even have their higher standards written down anywhere or is it inspectors making rules up as they go along.

It's easy to print out a 22 page checklist* but where are those rules coming from.

Because if a normal rental inspection asks for easier to meet standards vs HAP then one of the two sets of standards involved is either too strict OR not strict enough.

*I saw someone who had a HAP inspection mentioned this checklist

HAP ask the full standards laid down in tenancy law. Which are not checked in ordinary rentals.

In all my years in private rentals I never had a house that complied fully with the rules and some were dangerous. It is so hard to find a rental that you tend to accept.

It is good that HAP enforces safety.

Old diesel

Graces7 wrote: »

HAP ask the full standards laid down in tenancy law. Which are not checked in ordinary rentals.

In all my years in private rentals I never had a house that complied fully with the rules and some were dangerous. It is so hard to find a rental that you tend to accept.

It is good that HAP enforces safety.

What people seem to be saying is that if a non HAP rental is checked - the inspector isn't looking for the same standard.

So you could (apparently) pass an inspection as a normal rental - but then the exact same house fails HAP

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

What happens if you fail the hap test?

Old diesel

ak75r0x3pjheun wrote: »

What happens if you fail the hap test?

You stop getting paid by HAP apparently.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Old diesel wrote: »

You stop getting paid by HAP apparently.

And if you can't afford the renovations?

beauf

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing €30k equals to maybe one two years rent in Dublin? ....

Considering this is only going to effect those below the market rate, and this will be net profit after expenses and tax. Could be 3 or 4 years.

How long does a house have to to empty before the rent can be reset. Or why not spend a fraction of that 30k on a refurb. Then you have 4yrs increased rent. Perhaps such as 33% more.

Pkiernan

I wonder if the tenant who trashed my apartment to the tune of 14k after not paying rent for 4 months will be fined or jailed?

But an an evil landlord I suppose I has that coming.

the_syco

beauf wrote: »

How long does a house have to to empty before the rent can be reset. Or why not spend a fraction of that 30k on a refurb. Then you have 4yrs increased rent. Perhaps such as 33% more.

Well, that's just it; has it been defined what a refurb is?

GGTrek

the_syco wrote: »

Well, that's just it; has it been defined what a refurb is?

It looks like you did not read this post with the new statutory definition:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108947724&postcount=98


The article in the independent is just a very short summary of the govvie proposed legislation that was discussed starting in this thread page:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057876284&page=7

Graces7

Old diesel wrote: »

What people seem to be saying is that if a non HAP rental is checked - the inspector isn't looking for the same standard.

So you could (apparently) pass an inspection as a normal rental - but then the exact same house fails HAP

Yes. I have lived in many "normal rentals" and never seen any inspected. Has anyone else?

My last private rental was a fire death trap. with a dodgy water supply . No windows or natural light upstairs. etc etc etc

Others were little better and if you objected? Plenty more tenants around

With HAP inspections there is a safety check. As there should be.

The standards are laid down in tenancy law. See RTB and Threshold sites

beauf

Yes I've seen normal rentals inspected.

If no one rented them the dodgy ones would go out of business or be forced to improve. Report them at least.

If there are no rentals of suitable quality the Govt should supply some.

The_Conductor

Graces7 wrote: »

HAP ask the full standards laid down in tenancy law. Which are not checked in ordinary rentals.

In all my years in private rentals I never had a house that complied fully with the rules and some were dangerous. It is so hard to find a rental that you tend to accept.

It is good that HAP enforces safety.

Not entirely accurate.
HAP ask for the full standards as laid down in the current building code- not just those standards as laid down in tenancy law. Current building regulations are current for new build dwellings. It was never intended to shoehorn current regulations into pre-existing dwellings- which instead, and obviously, are legally obliged to comply with the building regulations in place when the dwelling was built- not today's regulations.

Thus- a HAP inspection has a significantly higher standard associated with it- than does a regular rental check list- because there is an assumption that the dwelling has to comply with today's building regulations- and not the regulations in place when the property was built.

For reference- less than 7% of all dwellings in the country are compliant with today's building code- and if the Minister were to change the code again tomorrow- which they are entitled- that 7% would change to 0% overnight........

Aka- HAP requirements are a movable feast that will differ from property to property- depending on when the property was built. If the dwelling is a council/LA built dwelling from the 1980s- it may simply be easier to knock it down and rebuild- than try to meet a HAP checklist- more modern dwellings will meet more of the requirements- but even simple things like windows in bathrooms, separate electrical circuits for extractor fans etc- may not be that easy to retrofit into a property.

Its easier to decree a property non-HAP compliant- than it is to spend 20-30k making it HAP compliant- as its money that the landlord will never get back (and its not tax deductible- as its an improvement to the property- keep in mind only work which returns a property to a like for like basis- is tax deductible- so double/triple glazed windows, insulation etc- none of it is tax deductible...........)

HAP regulations are all well and good- and would be fine- if they were simply transposing current tenancy requirements into law- the trouble is, they're not. Also- there is an onus on all local authorities to inspect HAP accommodation within 24 months of the commencement of the tenancy (ideally within 12). Its a requirement (that they're not meeting). Any given property is probably 12-15 times more likely to be inspected if its a HAP tenancy- than if its a regular tenancy (which also shouldn't be the case- there should be a common set of rules- and a common expectation that everyone should be compliant with them).

Its one set of rules for HAP tenants- and an entirely much more relaxed set of rules- for everyone else.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

What happens if the landlord can't afford to comply with hap requirements?

Pkiernan

ak75r0x3pjheun wrote: »

What happens if the landlord can't afford to comply with hap requirements?

The Local Authority will impose fines.

In reality, for most dwellings, the standards are not very difficult to achieve.

The_Conductor

Pkiernan wrote: »

The Local Authority will impose fines.

In reality, for most dwellings, the standards are not very difficult to achieve.

It really depends on the age of the property. Any post 1963- pre 1990 dwelling- will require remedial work- which might include masonry work (windows for bathrooms, extractor fans etc) rewiring and possibly plumbing or other works.

Honestly- you would be hardpressed to find an owner occupier in the country whose house meets HAP guidelines- according to the SEAI- less than 7% of our housing stock meets current energy efficient regulations (never mind a wishlist with windows and other items on it).

Old diesel

The_Conductor wrote: »

It really depends on the age of the property. Any post 1963- pre 1990 dwelling- will require remedial work- which might include masonry work (windows for bathrooms, extractor fans etc) rewiring and possibly plumbing or other works.

Honestly- you would be hardpressed to find an owner occupier in the country whose house meets HAP guidelines- according to the SEAI- less than 7% of our housing stock meets current energy efficient regulations (never mind a wishlist with windows and other items on it).

Where are these HAP guidelines coming from - as in who decides that a particular standard should apply.

Is it inspectors working off their own bat?????.

Local authorities?????.

Government?????

HAP in Limerick?????

overkill602

Any failings in HAP are evidenced in many posts here both for people looking and LLs avoiding it
It was ill-conceived and no consultation with private LLs who they want rid of I wouldn’t touch it
A place is better off vacant imo

splinter65

Old diesel wrote: »

Where are these HAP guidelines coming from - as in who decides that a particular standard should apply.

Is it inspectors working off their own bat?????.

Local authorities?????.

Government?????

HAP in Limerick?????

I wouldn’t be involved in the rental market either from the home owners point of view or the local authority’s point of view for all the tea in China.
The inquest following a tragic fire in voluntary housing in which a woman and small children perished found that the smoke alarm had been dismantled. A witness at the inquest recalled having helped dismantle it. The fireman said the fire started from a candle lit under the tv stand. A slab of beer had been consumed. These facts are without doubt.
Yet the general consensus on social media was that the housing was shoddy and it was the housing authorities fault.
You can’t win when it comes to standards.

murphaph

splinter65 wrote: »

I wouldn’t be involved in the rental market either from the home owners point of view or the local authority’s point of view for all the tea in China.
The inquest following a tragic fire in voluntary housing in which a woman and small children perished found that the smoke alarm had been dismantled. A witness at the inquest recalled having helped dismantle it. The fireman said the fire started from a candle lit under the tv stand. A slab of beer had been consumed. These facts are without doubt.
Yet the general consensus on social media was that the housing was shoddy and it was the housing authorities fault.
You can’t win when it comes to standards.

Sadly this is typical now in Ireland. It's always someone else's fault.

BBFAN

I installed vents in my house that I was letting at the request of HAP and had the tenants complaining that they were causing a draught!

When they moved out I found every vent covered with newspaper.

You really can't win.

Much older houses are never going to come up to the required standard for HAP and yet most of us have lived in them all our lives and are still alive and healthy.

Graces7

BBFAN wrote: »

I installed vents in my house that I was letting at the request of HAP and had the tenants complaining that they were causing a draught!

When they moved out I found every vent covered with newspaper.

You really can't win.

Much older houses are never going to come up to the required standard for HAP and yet most of us have lived in them all our lives and are still alive and healthy.

Guilty M'Lud!

There are vents built in here and the one behind my bed was dreadful fr a draft...Well covered now but the others are left intact.

The rules and daily life are often at odds.

And vents are a sound idea given the deaths from carbon monoxide. Just they could be better placed? eg above the window in here where there is no furniture.

Graces7

splinter65 wrote: »

I wouldn’t be involved in the rental market either from the home owners point of view or the local authority’s point of view for all the tea in China.
The inquest following a tragic fire in voluntary housing in which a woman and small children perished found that the smoke alarm had been dismantled. A witness at the inquest recalled having helped dismantle it. The fireman said the fire started from a candle lit under the tv stand. A slab of beer had been consumed. These facts are without doubt.
Yet the general consensus on social media was that the housing was shoddy and it was the housing authorities fault.
You can’t win when it comes to standards.

I took my smoke alarms out here. They were ultra sensitive and the screaming of them was terrible.

But I do not do things like lighting candles in such places. Or drinking.

beauf

I think the problem is if you have a vent thats in line with the prevailing wind. It just blows straight into it. You can get baffles/cowls for them to minimise this.

Sticking a 6" hole in a wall seems very medieval.

ToBeFrank123

beauf wrote: »

I think the problem is if you have a vent thats in line with the prevailing wind. It just blows straight into it. You can get baffles/cowls for them to minimise this.

Sticking a 6" hole in a wall seems very medieval.

Agreed. Whatever happened to opening a window?

LotharIngum

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed. Whatever happened to opening a window?

Its not allowed that you would ever even have to think of doing such a thing.
So they want holes in the wall instead.

Old diesel

beauf wrote: »

I think the problem is if you have a vent thats in line with the prevailing wind. It just blows straight into it. You can get baffles/cowls for them to minimise this.

Sticking a 6" hole in a wall seems very medieval.

On airtight modern homes or properly done deep retrofit jobs the thinking is increasingly going towards MVHR or demand controlled ventilation.

MVHR is what you will see in say a Passive house - it can deliver fresh air to each room but the ingenuity of it is in winter the heat of the air going out of the house heats up the air coming in.

My understanding of demand controlled vestilation is that it can detect changes of humidity and based on that do its thing as required.

So you are right sticking a 6"" hole in the wall is pretty medieval in a 2019 technology context.

Edit - just to note as well that Passive house and the like STILL allow you open a window.

All modern thinking is saying with very airtight homes don't rely on natural ventilation alone

Graces7

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed. Whatever happened to opening a window?

We are not trusted? Although given that there are so many deaths from carbon monoxide clearly we should not be trusted? Modern houses tend to have good draftproofing. I would not block the other vents for that reason. Just the one above the bed.

That case a while ago.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3381206/clare-family-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-lisdoonvarna/

LotharIngum

Old diesel wrote: »

My understanding of demand controlled vestilation is that it can detect changes of humidity and based on that do its thing as required.

I have it in my apartment. IT turns on the fans on the walls when humidity is high. It worked fine for a couple of years. No mold at all.
Next tenant complained about mold in the bedroom. When I called up to have a look what did I see?
A clothes horse full of wet clothes shoved right up against the heater in the bedroom. The dryer doesn't dry the clothes properly she said. Spin them and leave them in it til they are dry and it will. Some people are just thick.

beauf

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed. Whatever happened to opening a window?

I take your point but Its kinda solving a different problem though.

LotharIngum

Graces7 wrote: »

I would not block the other vents for that reason. Just the one above the bed.

The very vent that might save your life in the even of a carbon monoxide incident.

Don't block that.