Beast from the east?

Defaulter1831

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108826969&postcount=1338

sryanbruen is a brilliant young meteorologist on the weather fora. In the post above he reviews autumn past. Just to show that is how all the meteorological, historical and scientific people on the weather thread describe the seasons. It's not even something that's debated.

Start of March, the spring thread opens, start of June summer, start of September autumn and start of December winter.

Defaulter1831

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I often post there.

Coldness is just one way to measure winter. Length of day is another. Since Ireland doesn’t get that cold,and each month is so variable, and the strength of the sun in March is much more than November I’m inclined to informally go with the old Celtic rules while accepting the meteorologist view in their domain.

One thing I do know - September can feel like late summer and there’s many a time I’ve continued my summer routines in September. November is nearly as dark as December, and while not cold - invariably miserable.

Fair enough, each to their own I'm strongly of the view point outlined. But when you hit 16C around Valentine's like in 1998 it can feel very Spring like with the lengthening days.

Then Valentine's is the date SAD starts to improve from also. So light v Average temperature really.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

antodeco wrote: »

2010/2011 if I remember correctly? Certainly in Dublin it was fairly heavy!

There was much less snow in the west and south. But what did fall stuck because it was so cold. Two good periods where it was well below zero even during the day. But nowhere near the amount of snow Dublin got.

Dane Unsightly Vehicle wrote: »

The snow in late 2010 lasted several days and the roads were not just a bit icy. It was treacherous. It started in early December, then thawed, then came back about 10 days before Christmas, and thawed very quickly - overnight Christmas day and into St Stephen's Day.

You know it didn't just barely last a day.

If he lived in coastal Cork, it could have been that brief. I recall a satellite image of Ireland from the time and the south coast of Cork was green while the rest of the country was white. There wasn’t full countrywide coverage.

Mrcaramelchoc

Warning warning something something warning.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108826969&postcount=1338

sryanbruen is a brilliant young meteorologist on the weather fora. In the post above he reviews autumn past. Just to show that is how all the meteorological, historical and scientific people on the weather thread describe the seasons. It's not even something that's debated.

Start of March, the spring thread opens, start of June summer, start of September autumn and start of December winter.

Weather data enthusiast. He isn’t a qualified meteorologist.

Defaulter1831

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Weather data enthusiast. He isn’t a qualified meteorologist.

He's too young to be a qualified meteorologist alright but he's more than a weather data enthusiast.

I'm a weather data enthusiast but Sryan brings a whole new level of scientific knowledge about weather forecasting to the table. After MT Cranium you have himself, Villain who are the next most knowledgeable. 4 or 5 more very very godd aswell.

A weather data enthusiast can list off various weather events and years and has a good memory. This kid (still only leaving cert) is way ahead of just being concerned with historical data.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

He's too young to be a qualified meteorologist alright but he's more than a weather data enthusiast.

I'm a weather data enthusiast but Sryan brings a whole new level of scientific knowledge about weather forecasting to the table. After MT Cranium you have himself, Villain who are the next most knowledgeable. 4 or 5 more very very godd aswell.

A weather data enthusiast can list off various weather events and years and has a good memory. This kid (still only leaving cert) is way ahead of just being concerned with historical data.

Still not a meteorologist though, which takes a lot of study to achieve. The only type of meteorologist is a qualified one who has been through lots of coursework and exams. As someone with a scientific qualification myself, no way would I have got there without outside instruction and people pointing out my mistakes.

He even acknowledges himself in that post that the information is from Met Eireann.

Christmas 2010 was bigger than the beast from the east.

Defaulter1831

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Still not a meteorologist though, which takes a lot of study to achieve. The only type of meteorologist is a qualified one who has been through lots of coursework and exams. As someone with a scientific qualification myself, no way would I have got there without outside instruction and people pointing out my mistakes.

Of course i take your point. But if you follow his posts it becomes apparent he's a bit special. I'm a scientist too but that kid's work is thorough and he has the brain power. He's more than a 'weather data enthusiast':D

wakka12

I love snow too OP but unforuntately no amount of wishing will change what is a typically mild wintered climate. We seem to get a 'snow event' (a few inches of snow lying for a few consecutive days) roughly every 4-5 years at sea level

Kidchameleon

The snow in 2018 was an event I will never forget. Amazing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Hey all. So having lived in this beautiful country for the past 18 years I never really experienced mild winters like we are kind of experiencing now. Last year it was kind of the same and then in March we got hit with a lot of snow. Now me having emigrated from a country which snowed a lot in winter I must say I am really fond of snow so do you all think we may get snow again this year?

Really? This seems like a bogstandard mild, wet Irish winter. I haven’t found it milder than normal. A few days in November and December have hit 15 degrees but there have been far more single figure days with the rest being 10-12.

dotsman

Marley and Marley wrote: »

In school we were taught that Winter was November,December and January and Summer was May,June and July.

Ah, the INTO-led education system strikes again. Did they also teach you about baby Jesus and the little donkey? And how to ask to go to the toilet in irish? Did your teachers ever question why their "summer" holidays were in July and August?

OldMrBrennan83

dotsman wrote: »

Ah, the INTO-led education system strikes again. Did they also teach you about baby Jesus and the little donkey? And how to ask to go to the toilet in irish? Did your teachers ever question why their "summer" holidays were in July and August?

They're right though. November, December, January and you can't write over everything that was ever done in this country just because you want to flex how ultra modern and progressive you are.

dotsman

Patww79 wrote: »

They're right though. November, December, January and you can't write over everything that was ever done in this country just because you want to flex how ultra modern and progressive you are.

It's nothing about being "ultra modern" or "progressive".

We take our summer holidays in July & August for primary; June, July & August for secondary; and June, July, August & often September for third level.

We change our clocks for winter time for Nov - Mar (5 months). The middle 3 of those 5 months are Dec-Feb.

If "winter" is the dark and cold season, and "summer" the warm and bright with "spring"/"autumn the periods that change, Mar-May and Sep-Nov are clearly the 3-month transitional periods from (Mar-May starts cold and dark and ends warm and bright while Sep-Nov starts warm and bright and ends dark and cold).

But never let logic get in the way of a mistake.

alta stare

antodeco wrote: »

February 2nd at 4pm in a very specific part of the country. More details will follow

Any chance it will be my back yard???

sk8erboii

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My auld fella could, and has, gone on about the big snow of 1947 until the cows come home. Meanwhile, I'm old enough to remember the big snow of 1982, and himself arriving into Dublin airport and ringing home to say he was bringing a couple of people who were stranded there home and to have beds ready. I also remember the local fire station ringing around asking us and others could we put up people whose buses couldn't travel any further. Great excitement in the early days. And hilarious photos of us all in bit woolly hats falling over our faces (hand-me-downs ruled the 80s!), duffel coats and the like. My mother sent myself and my siblings around to elderly neighbours to see if they had enough milk, etc, while the snow drifts were absolutely massive - about 3 times my height in many places. With non-stop cold and very few supplies, we kids were absolutely sick of it all after a while. 'Ní bheidh a leithéid arís ann', as Tomás Ó Criomhthain might have put it.

All you whippersnappers haven't seen real snow yet.

Pictures of the Big Snow of 1982

Meh. Normal day in canada

OldMrBrennan83

dotsman wrote: »

It's nothing about being "ultra modern" or "progressive".

We take our summer holidays in July & August for primary; June, July & August for secondary; and June, July, August & often September for third level.

We change our clocks for winter time for Nov - Mar (5 months). The middle 3 of those 5 months are Dec-Feb.

If "winter" is the dark and cold season, and "summer" the warm and bright with "spring"/"autumn the periods that change, Mar-May and Sep-Nov are clearly the 3-month transitional periods from (Mar-May starts cold and dark and ends warm and bright while Sep-Nov starts warm and bright and ends dark and cold).

But never let logic get in the way of a mistake.

Spring - Feb, Mar, Apr
Summer - May, Jun, Jul
Autumn - Aug, Sep, Oct
Winter - Nov, Dec, Jan

Latch on to whatever or wherever you like but that's how it is.

sk8erboii

Patww79 wrote: »

Spring - Feb, Mar, Apr
Summer - May, Jun, Jul
Autumn - Aug, Sep, Oct
Winter - Nov, Dec, Jan

Latch on to whatever or wherever you like but that's how it is.

Dec - March is winter for the northern hemisphere..

Gimme A Pound

Insisting that February - sometimes an appallingly miserable month - is winter, and May - still potentially chilly for the first half - is summer, and August - at times warmer than July - is autumn... this is just a case of "someone said something and it's been accepted so it cannot be questioned".

I go by the weather itself - meteorology:
January, February, some of March - Winter
Late March, April, some of May - Spring
Late May, June, July, August, some of September - Summer
Late September, October, some of November- Autumn
Late November, December - Winter

sk8erboii

Dane Unsightly Vehicle wrote: »

Insisting that February - sometimes an appallingly miserable month - is winter, and May - still potentially chilly for the first half - is summer, and August - at times warmer than July - is autumn - Is just a case of "someone said something and it's been accepted so it cannot be questioned".

I go by the weather itself - meteorology:
January, February, some of March - Winter
Late March, April, some of May - Spring
Late May, June, July, August, some of September - Summer
Late September, October, some of November- Autumn
Late November, December - Winter

What the? If you grab a telescope and meteorologists tools you can physically measure the relative northern or southern excursion of the sun relative to the earth’s equator. You reference this with the equinox and thats how we know winter starts in December 21 and ends in march.

Theres hard science here thats existed since 300 BC that already done all this mate

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Regarding the 21st Dec as the beginning of Winter is pure stupidity.

There is not purely objective approach but there are several factors which should be considered. Temperature, daylight and nature.

For these reasons I regard mid February as the beginning of Spring. It is noticably brighter, flowers and leaves are beggining to grow/bud, even though it is still quite cold this is enough in my opinion to mark mid February as tge beginning of Spring.

Mid May is the beginning of Summer based on temperature, daylight and nature.

Mid August is the beginning of Autumn, the leaves are turning brown, occasionally there is a noticable chill in the air and it's getting noticably darker.

Winter begins around mid November, by then nearly all leaves are gone from trees, it's very dark and getting very cold.

So disregard science based on feelings?

Franz Von Peppercorn

dotsman wrote: »

Ah, the INTO-led education system strikes again. Did they also teach you about baby Jesus and the little donkey? And how to ask to go to the toilet in irish? Did your teachers ever question why their "summer" holidays were in July and August?

One thing we do pretty good is education.

Franz Von Peppercorn

sk8erboii wrote: »

So disregard science based on feelings?

There’s bog all science to any of this. Different countries have different winters, some longer, some shorter.

sk8erboii

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s bog all science to any of this. Different countries have different winters, some longer, some shorter.

Huh. Strange.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_solstice

‘In the Northern Hemisphere, authorities define the period of winter based on astronomical fixed points (i.e. based solely on the position of the Earth in its orbit around the sun), regardless of weather conditions. In one version of this definition, winter begins at the winter solstice and ends at the vernal equinox. – usually considered to span the entirety of December, January, and February in the Northern Hemisphere’


But youre right.. its probably just a hoax.. like the world being round

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Nope, science indicates Winter should be earlier than Dec 21st. But no matter what approach yoù take there is subjectivity.

Really? When did science indicate that?

Harry Palmr

FFS winter is December-February, each season is 3 months. Why? Cos trying to delineate them any other way is messy. In Ireland every "season" can be and is mercurial in nature so for the sake of record keeping it's split into 4 x 3 month periods starting December, March, June, September. That it's 15 and 90% humidity in mid December or 12 and 40% in July is irrelevant.

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Temperature, daylight and nature is science, just as much as the equinox is science.

Damn.. almost like only one of those is a metric for seasonal changes or something ...

sk8erboii

Harry Palmr wrote: »

FFS winter is December-February, each season is 3 months. Why? Cos trying to delineate them any other way is messy. In Ireland every "season" can be and is mercurial in nature so for the sake of record keeping it's split into 4 x 3 month periods starting December, March, June, September. That it's 15 and 90% humidity in mid December or 12 and 40% in July is irrelevant.

Damn.. almost like you can divide months into days or something..

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

I would say temperature, daylight and nature are indeed good metrics for Winter.

Its a good metric for your opinion. ‘Winter’ is a clearly defined term based on astronomical movement.

You cant just say ‘ITS WINTER’ cause its dark and cold. If so, we have winter every June/July/August

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

June and July are much warmer and brighter December and January in Ireland.

Sure dont we have winter every night in september? It gets cold and dark...

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Nobody cares about astrology, the actually direct affects we perceive and sense are better determinants of the seasons.

Astronomy mate. Astrology is zodiac signs.

Thats a solipsist argument. The very same mindset used by flat earthers.

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Astronomy is a poor choice of determining seasons, factors directly perceived by people are better factors tp determine seasons.

‘The earth is flat because thats how i perceive it. Astronomy is a hoax’

?

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

If you think the Earth is flat I can't help you.

Whew. I was starting to believe you were a flat earther too. But im glad we can agree things exist beyond your subjective perception.

Thats why winter starts at dec 21 (;

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

It's arbitrary to choose astronomical movement to determine seasons. Temperature, daylight and nature make more sense.

Seasons are about changes in the environment that we can perceive. What is the point of declaring that astronomy is the determining factor?

It marks the beginning of winter for one? The sun at its most southerly point means days become shorter after december 21 and much colder in the northern latitudes. Seasons are byproducts of celestial movement, thats why seasons are tied to solstices.

Your statements are an inch away from flat earther thesis lol.

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

This coming from someone who thinks days become shorter after 21st December, not in the Northern Hemisphere they don't

Damn.. so hard science IS a valid retort. Glad we agree on that.

Thats why winter starts at December 21 (;

holliehobbie

Ah don't the days become longer after the winter solstice?

Franz Von Peppercorn

sk8erboii wrote: »

Huh. Strange.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_solstice

‘In the Northern Hemisphere, authorities define the period of winter based on astronomical fixed points (i.e. based solely on the position of the Earth in its orbit around the sun), regardless of weather conditions. In one version of this definition, winter begins at the winter solstice and ends at the vernal equinox. – usually considered to span the entirety of December, January, and February in the Northern Hemisphere’


But youre right.. its probably just a hoax.. like the world being round

Why don’t you read the thread, on how winter is defined differently in different countries. Or how every single country in Europe with a mid summer festival has that festival in June, not July.

I understand the meteorologist’s position but there are other ways to define winter, or the seasons.

Arguments to authority are for weak little minds.

Defaulter1831

Harry Palmr wrote: »

FFS winter is December-February, each season is 3 months. Why? Cos trying to delineate them any other way is messy. In Ireland every "season" can be and is mercurial in nature so for the sake of record keeping it's split into 4 x 3 month periods starting December, March, June, September. That it's 15 and 90% humidity in mid December or 12 and 40% in July is irrelevant.

100%. We're all well aware of the 2 solstice and 2 equinox but since 1659 when the Royal Society came into being in the UK meterologically winter is Dec, Jan and Feb with the other seasons corresponding.

Sometimes these things have to be simplified taking astronomy, daylight and temperature into account.

Good luck saying to anyone on the 20th March 'i'm really looking forward to the start of Spring tomorrow'!!

A lot of pedantic point scoring going on here.

Franz Von Peppercorn

sk8erboii wrote: »

The sun at its most southerly point means days become shorter after december 21

I think we need to shut down the schools. It’s not working. We tried. We failed.

sk8erboii

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I think we need to shut down the schools. It’s not working. We tried. We failed.

No mate. It was a redherring. He took the bait (;

sk8erboii

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Why don’t you read the thread, on how winter is defined differently in different countries. Or how every single country in Europe with a mid summer festival has that festival in June, not July.

I understand the meteorologist’s position but there are other ways to define winter, or the seasons.

Arguments to authority are for weak little minds.

‘Youre such a weak little mind for using hard science and astronomy’

Damn.. flat earthers must be pretty high IQ...

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

On what basis is astronomy a better determinant of seasons than temperature, daylight and nature?

You do realise science doesn't say that you have to use astronomy to determine seasons?

There are facts and then there is subjectivity such as choosing criteria/facts to determine seasons.

‘Thats when he realized... the seasons are caused by the movement of celestial bodies...’

Whoa.. its like we invented astronomy to track these movements or something...

John.G

Marley and Marley wrote: »

It seems to me that 20 years ago November was much colder and February was much milder.In school we were always thought that November,December and January were winter and February was when Spring started.

Last few years November has been fairly mild but February and March have felt colder.

November was defiently winter weather when I was growing up and February was spring weather whereas it feels the last few years that November is more like Autumn weather and February/March has more wintry weather.

Years ago, you got constant east wind for "6 weeks" around March, really bitter with the wind chill factor.

Franz Von Peppercorn

sk8erboii wrote: »

‘Youre such a weak little mind for using hard science and astronomy’

Damn.. flat earthers must be pretty high IQ...

You quoted the first sentence from the Wikipedia entry on winter, which actually in the rest of the article explains how winter isn’t in fact measured consistently across the northern hemisphere and nowhere is astronomical winter the same as meteorological winter.

Also I don’t buy that you didn’t believe that the days get shorter after Dec 21.

Shocking.

sk8erboii

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You quoted the first sentence from the Wikipedia entry on winter, which actually in the rest of the article explains how winter isn’t in fact measured consistently across the northern hemisphere and nowhere is astronomical winter the same as meteorological winter.

Also I don’t buy that you didn’t believe that the days get shorter after Dec 21.

Shocking.

Tbqhfam im probably smarter than most people here since im working on my engineering masters. But youre right, if wikipedia says so then it must be so (;

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

So even if a particular month was the hottest of the year every year would you call it winter if astronomy determined it to be winter?

Winter in the equator is just called the wet season

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

That's a non sequitar.

Its a direct response - in an event where winter isnt winter either the etymology changes (disassociate winter with snow, coldness etc) or we’d simply use a different word (wet season)

Sequitur* (;

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Bittom line is this, the bests factors to determine what the seasons are should based on what people actually experience, such as temperature, daylight and nature. What's the point of basing seasons on something arbitrary such as astronomical movement which we don't directly experience?

Because seasons are caused by antronomical movement?

sk8erboii

Henry Schweser wrote: »

Indeed they are, and the end effect which we experience is more relevant to people than the astronomical movement.

Solid science is needed, otherwise anyone can claim its winter at any time theres a cold breeze