22 syrian families arrive in ireland, then what?

Lefty Bicek

batgoat wrote: »

And you still haven't provided a basis that it actually held a role in Irish nationalism or defined an aspect of Irish nationalism. Would you like us to be a bit more racist or something? Cause you seem to have a longing.

I didn't make a claim that it 'actually held a role in Irish nationalism or defined an aspect of Irish nationalism'.

YOU made the claim that it did not.

I asked you to explain that.

When pressed, you now make the claim that some of our revolutionaries may have held racist views.

These seem to be interesting things to me, in need of clarification.

I have a longing for you to answer the questions I asked you. That is all.

Annasopra

Uboat wrote: »

Send them back. The war is almost over in Syria.

Why dont you goto Syria if you feel its perfectly safe.

Billy86

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

OR, if you had read the link...

As are many of the countries below 97 who are not doing well.

Added to that, numerous countries do not make the top 20s listed as the supposed criteria, despite having an average above 97: Hungary, Taiwan, Ukraine, Russia, Malta, Andorra, Mongolia.

Added to that, he appears to have completely left several countries off of these lists:
For GDP - UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi, Bahrain, Oman.
For corruption - UAE
For murder rate - Burkina Faso, Kuwait, Qatar

Added to that, he lists homicide rate as a marker and then turns around to shift to goalposts claiming murder rate does not matter in dictatorships. If I did not know any better I would think this might be why he seems to have completely forgotten to list democratic Burkina Faso (avg IQ of 168) for otherwise unknown reasons.

It seems your blogger may need to rethink his methodology, because as is it is so flawed as to almost come over as deceptively having an agenda behind it.

Billy86

enricoh wrote: »

Not a silent majority but 23% voted for casey when he asked a few questions about travelers n the irish welfare state.
In the last census iirc 17% of population was foreign but 33% of the homeless list are foreign. Who's enriching who?

Im not sure what the traveling community have to do with Syrian migrants?

road_high

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why dont you goto Syria if you feel its perfectly safe.

Because I doubt the poster is Syrian?

Lefty Bicek

What you read...

Billy86 wrote: »

claiming murder rate does not matter in dictatorships.

What was actually written...

However, if we are looking for a point at which modern civilization begins to crumble, then we shouldn’t look at dictatorships at all. They can keep the murder rate low with social control and oppression, but at in doing so they disqualify themselves as candidates for civilized societies.

Get a grown-up to read it to you.

DS86DS

end of the road wrote: »

no he's not. He's attacking racism and bigotry. that is in turn true nationalism and putting irish and all people first. racism is not nationalism and your brand of nationalism does not put irish people or anyone first. and again, there are no pro-open borders people in this thread.



racist is not the code word for supposibly being "pro-irish people in the state of ireland" . irish nationalism remains to be based on the will of the irish people to govern themselves and to be in charge of our own destiny. for ireland to belong to the irish people. it is not based on being bigoted, racist or discriminatory to other people however and that brand of nationalism is constantly rejected by the majority quite rightly. so there is no re-writing of history in relation to what nationalism is about, just people telling the actual truth of what nationalism really is
there are no open borders in ireland. there is very little support for open borders in ireland. we do not have any policies that allow for or relate to open borders in ireland. the EU while it has many faults, has been good for ireland. without it ireland would still be back in the 1950s in terms of infrastructure and more. we have our country, nobody has taken it. there is nobody for us to take it back from. we govern ourselves, and the politicians and those who elect them are responsible for the issues. the brand of nationalism you subscribe to is not welcome in ireland.




there is supposibly a "silent majority" yet your brand of nationalism continues to be rejected large scale. how is that possible. it's not the fault of the media, the liberals, the leftists or the universities or anyone else that the actual majority have no time for your brand of nationalism or conservatism.



because they realise it's ultimately not a workible idea and that it won't bring the outcomes people would hope for.

A load of rambling nonsense. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with all of these attempts to pull Irish Nationalism into the Left Wing and One world open borders camp. It's extremely disingenuous to try and claim that the modern state of Ireland was not founded as a home for the Irish people and a home means a home, not to be eventually become a minority in our own land.

If what you are trying to get at is true, then why didn't the Irish State open its doors to unlimited immigration back in 1922? Why is it that Ireland remained an ethnically and culturally homogeneous society until the turn of the millennium?

Where is it said in the 1916 Proclamation that we should be an uber-tolerance multiculturalism society with anybody who feels like it welcome into the Irish State?

And have you actually asked many Irish people what they think, have you researched and actually listen to people with a different view?

Or maybe you just mop up whatever you hear in the media and then return here to the Liberal echo chamber.....then deem anything not approved by the former and the latter to be an abomination. It certainly seems that many are too arrogant to step outside of their own bubble for once.

Billy86

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

What you read...

Billy86 wrote: »

claiming murder rate does not matter in dictatorships.

What was actually written...

However, if we are looking for a point at which modern civilization begins to crumble, then we shouldn’t look at dictatorships at all. They can keep the murder rate low with social control and oppression, but at in doing so they disqualify themselves as candidates for civilized societies.

Get a grown-up to read it to you.

Thanks for backing up my point,they used a criteria and then decided to shift it when it wasn't convenient. And then just left out Burkina Faso for no reason whatsoever. Which, along with the rest of the blogs various inconsistencies, I can't help but notice you don't seem able to defend.

Lefty Bicek

Billy86 wrote: »

Thanks for backing up my point,they used a criterion and then decided to shift it when it wasn't convenient. And then just left out Burkina Faso for no reason whatsoever. Which, along with the rest of the blogs various inconsistencies, I can't help but notice you don't seem able to defend.

I didn't write the blog, and people can read it for themselves.

How you revealing yourself to be a disingenuous poster backs up your point, I have no idea.

Billy86

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Thanks for backing up my point,they used a criterion and then decided to shift it when it wasn't convenient. And then just left out Burkina Faso for no reason whatsoever. Which, along with the rest of the blogs various inconsistencies, I can't help but notice you don't seem able to defend.

I didn't write the blog, and people can read it for themselves.

How you revealing yourself to be a disingenuous poster backs up your point, I have no idea.

No, I said the article claims murder rates in dictatorships do not matter for their analysis.... You showed the text to back this up. Again, thanks for that.

I also showed your link to be apparently very disingenuous/inconsistent and rather than try to claim it is in any way credible, you're instead throwing a tantrum and arguing with my phones autocorrect feature. It's kind of telling.

Let's start smal before moving on to all of the blogs other flaws... if you can't tell me why they left off Burkina Faso can you then just be honest and tell us why you're hiding behind something you now know to be false?

end of the road

DS86DS wrote: »

A load of rambling nonsense. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with all of these attempts to pull Irish Nationalism into the Left Wing and One world open borders camp. It's extremely disingenuous to try and claim that the modern state of Ireland was not founded as a home for the Irish people and a home means a home, not to be eventually become a minority in our own land.

If what you are trying to get at is true, then why didn't the Irish State open its doors to unlimited immigration back in 1922? Why is it that Ireland remained an ethnically and culturally homogeneous society until the turn of the millennium?

Where is it said in the 1916 Proclamation that we should be an uber-tolerance multiculturalism society with anybody who feels like it welcome into the Irish State?

And have you actually asked many Irish people what they think, have you researched and actually listen to people with a different view?

Or maybe you just mop up whatever you hear in the media and then return here to the Liberal echo chamber.....then deem anything not approved by the former and the latter to be an abomination. It certainly seems that many are too arrogant to step outside of their own bubble for once.

we will never become a minority in our country. it's not going to happen. ever. as for this left wing one world open borders camp, such a camp likely only has a few members as i'd say most people who are left wing don't agree with or want open borders. and again there is no unlimited immigration to ireland. there never has been and it's unlikely quite rightly that there ever will be. i don't need to ask irish people what they think, the majority show what they think at the ballot box and the minority show what they think online. so i know the majority don't believe there is unlimited immigration to ireland or that we have open borders. i know a minority think otherwise however because they are online trying to convince us otherwise.

Ulysses Gaze

Billy86 wrote: »

Then we've got a problem: Ireland's average IQ is 92.

https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

Maybe explains why we kept voting in Fianna Fail so many times....

Mr. teddywinkles

end of the road wrote: »

we will never become a minority in our country. it's not going to happen. ever. as for this left wing one world open borders camp, such a camp likely only has a few members as i'd say most people who are left wing don't agree with or want open borders. and again there is no unlimited immigration to ireland. there never has been and it's unlikely quite rightly that there ever will be. i don't need to ask irish people what they think, the majority show what they think at the ballot box and the minority show what they think online. so i know the majority don't believe there is unlimited immigration to ireland or that we have open borders. i know a minority think otherwise however because they are online trying to convince us otherwise.

You mustn't look around you much when your out do you?

tretorn

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Captain Obvious

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Would you consider yourself racist at all?

Robocop Corcoran

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

A lot of them are giving it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNEcxCIm9_k

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Would you consider yourself racist at all?

Ah the usual dismissive tactic of the liberals

It's not "racist" to point out things you see around you.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah the usual dismissive tactic of the liberals

It's not "racist" to point out things you see around you.

Indeed it isn't. But if all you can see around you is foreigners and it makes you uncomfortable to be around them, or to see them in education and you refuse to use their services then I would consider that racist.


But you keep playing your victim card. The white man is the true victim of the 21st century right? :rolleyes:

Billy86

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah the usual dismissive tactic of the liberals

It's not "racist" to point out things you see around you.

It is point blank racist to say you wouldn't get a taxi solely on the basis of the drivers ethnicity. Pretending that is not is very telling.

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Indeed it isn't. But if all you can see around you is foreigners and it makes you uncomfortable to be around them, or to see them in education and you refuse to use their services then I would consider that racist.


But you keep playing your victim card. The white man is the true victim of the 21st century right? :rolleyes:

You as usual have that completely the wrong way around.

This ridiculous self-loathing, white guilt complex and American buzzwords and terminology that sees racism and discrimination everywhere is irrelevant to Ireland. Despite looking similar on the surface, we're a completely different country and culture with a very different history.

But by all means, keep projecting your own issues and need for validation if that helps you get through the day.

bodhrandude

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

What does wueue mean?

_Kaiser_

Billy86 wrote: »

It is point blank racist to say you wouldn't get a taxi solely on the basis of the drivers ethnicity. Pretending that is not is very telling.

I'd agree that going to that extreme is a bit much, but if one genuinely feels that they're being slowly pushed aside in their own country then it's education and calm, open discussion that's needed as to why they feel like that, and what can be done to reassure them.

Jumping to the "you big racist" hysteria solves nothing, isn't true anyway, and only hardens attitudes towards migration.

Ireland HAS changed significantly in demographic terms in the last 25 years and that pace of change is accelerating faster in certain economically poorer areas than others. It's not racist to recognise or question what this means for the natives.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You as usual have that completely the wrong way around.

This ridiculous self-loathing, white guilt complex and American buzzwords and terminology that sees racism and discrimination everywhere is irrelevant to Ireland. Despite looking similar on the surface, we're a completely different country and culture with a very different history.

But by all means, keep projecting your own issues and need for validation if that helps you get through the day.

And you, as usual, are completely ignoring the point. The poster specifically said they wouldn't use a taxi driven by a non-national. That is unequivocally a racist position. Yet you try and defend it with some deflection on to the liberals. So why are you ignoring this completely racist position as just "pointing out things around you"?

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You as usual have that completely the wrong way around.

This ridiculous self-loathing, white guilt complex and American buzzwords and terminology that sees racism and discrimination everywhere is irrelevant to Ireland. Despite looking similar on the surface, we're a completely different country and culture with a very different history.

But by all means, keep projecting your own issues and need for validation if that helps you get through the day.

I've seen a handful of posters claim on a regular basis that nobody is Irish in Dublin or that it's majority non Irish. That's bull**** and very much so racist. I would say it's another person projecting their issues when they're making such outlandish claims.

whomitconcerns

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

And.... What difference does any of that make?

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And you, as usual, are completely ignoring the point. The poster specifically said they wouldn't use a taxi driven by a non-national. That is unequivocally a racist position. Yet you try and defend it with some deflection on to the liberals. So why are you ignoring this completely racist position as just "pointing out things around you"?

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

sk8erboii

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

‘Im not racist btw (; ‘

_Kaiser_

batgoat wrote: »

I've seen a handful of posters claim on a regular basis that nobody is Irish in Dublin or that it's majority non Irish. That's bull**** and very much so racist. I would say it's another person projecting their issues when they're making such outlandish claims.

There is a significant percentage of non-nationals in Dublin these days, (far in excess of 12% or whatever the official numbers are) in many areas. It's the same in many towns as well.

Now this isn't automatically a bad thing by any means, but the people immediately itching to pull their "racism level 12 card" are the ones with the issues, not those questioning how this will affect the social makeup of previously wholly native communities.

Also worth noting that not everyone can put themselves across in the same way. Maybe take a minute to look at the intent of the post before jumping to conclusions based on your own prejudices.

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

He says he leaves the city early because there's so many non nationals.... Ya, he's sounding pretty racist/xenophobic although I'd say it's more racism since he even takes jabs at the race of children. Fun fact for you two btw, Irish children can in fact be black.

Billy86

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd agree that going to that extreme is a bit much, but if one genuinely feels that they're being slowly pushed aside in their own country then it's education and calm, open discussion that's needed as to why they feel like that, and what can be done to reassure them.

Jumping to the "you big racist" hysteria solves nothing, isn't true anyway, and only hardens attitudes towards migration.

Ireland HAS changed significantly in demographic terms in the last 25 years and that pace of change is accelerating faster in certain economically poorer areas than others. It's not racist to recognise or question what this means for the natives.

It's not 'on the extreme end of the spectrum' to point blank refuse a taxi based entirely on the drivers ethnicity, it is point blank definitive racism and nothing else, no different to hitting someone or shouting slurs at them based on nothing but their ethnicity.

Race: a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

Racist: showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

This is what the poster pointed out, there is no jumping to hysteria at all about it. Far more dangerous than calling racism like the above for what it is, is the increasing trend of some to reflexively jump to the defense of racists because of a feeling of being on the same 'side' of the left/right political spectrum.

_Kaiser_

batgoat wrote: »

He says he leaves the city early because there's so many non nationals.... Ya, he's sounding pretty racist/xenophobic although I'd say it's more racism since he even takes jabs at the race of children. Fun fact for you two btw, Irish children can in fact be black.

I'll let the lad speak for himself, but nowhere do I see anything meeting the "f*ing foreigners!" label you're trying to ascribe to him.

What I read is a guy who feels uncomfortable and apart in places where he would have previously felt completely welcome. That's more sad than anything, and warrants discussion as to why he feels that way, how he might change that view, and yes reassurance that he's not an outsider in his own country.

On a larger scale, it highlights the disconnect between social media and political statements and press releases on migration into Ireland, and the feelings of many on the ground, and what can be done to improve this situation.

But again, so long as people like yourself and others here keep pulling the - ist and - phobic cards, all you're really doing is hardening attitudes on the other "side" and actually defeating whatever points you're actually trying to make. No one likes being shouted down or told what an idiot/racist/whatever they are. It just closes ears and minds to whatever legitimate point you may have.

Timberrrrrrrr

bodhrandude wrote: »

What does wueue mean?

Its the irish version of convefe

enricoh

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Stayed in a hotel in Croydon in London last year, a multicultural melting pot to which many of our lefty boards members aspire to.
To go for a pint one needed their passport scanned, patted downfor weapons and facial recognition yoke to take a snap. Rival gangs killing each other being the reason.
An ideal weekend break for the leftys, but be warned if yer white u may experience a bit of the aul racism if in the wrong bar!

batgoat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'll let the lad speak for himself, but nowhere do I see anything meeting the "f*ing foreigners!" label you're trying to ascribe to him.

What I read is a guy who feels uncomfortable and apart in places where he would have previously felt completely welcome. That's more sad than anything, and warrants discussion as to why he feels that way, how he might change that view, and yes reassurance that he's not an outsider in his own country.

On a larger scale, it highlights the disconnect between social media and political statements and press releases on migration into Ireland, and the feelings of many on the ground, and what can be done to improve this situation.

But again, so long as people like yourself and others here keep pulling the - ist and - phobic cards, all you're really doing is hardening attitudes on the other "side" and actually defeating whatever points you're actually trying to make. No one likes being shouted down or told what an idiot/racist/whatever they are. It just closes ears and minds to whatever legitimate point you may have.

Why should the race of children matter to him in the slightest? I only recently left Dublin after living there for years, I can comfortably say that he's engaging in a pretty racist view of the city. I hope this doesn't upset you too much. If a person engages in outright racism, they deserve to be called out.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read my post above this one and stop looking for racism everywhere to justify the nonsense you're reading on twitter or wherever you're getting this stuff from.

You are literally defending an outright racist and their comment. Every piece of the comment was at best hyperbole but to most clearly xenophobic. Foreigners everywhere. Black children all over the schools. Wouldn't use a taxi driven by a foreigner. I didn't even call him racist. I asked if he considered himself racist. i was genuinely curious. And after reading both those posts your first reaction was to defend him as just pointing out what he sees, which he clearly could only have been doing in a vastly exaggerated fashion. You're so obsessed with attacking the liberals you defend outright racism.



Do you not ever look at your posts and thing "Hey, maybe I'm on the wrong side of this one."

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You are literally defending an outright racist and their comment. Every piece of the comment was at best hyperbole but to most clearly xenophobic. Foreigners everywhere. Black children all over the schools. Wouldn't use a taxi driven by a foreigner. I didn't even call him racist. I asked if he considered himself racist. i was genuinely curious. And after reading both those posts your first reaction was to defend him as just pointing out what he sees, which he clearly could only have been doing in a vastly exaggerated fashion. You're so obsessed with attacking the liberals you defend outright racism.



Do you not ever look at your posts and thing "Hey, maybe I'm on the wrong side of this one."

The first thing that struck me about his post was how your immediate reply was to dismiss it with a claim of racism.

Could he actually be racist? Possibly.. But I like to actually read a post and the point/intent behind it before jumping to hyperbolic and unhelpful conclusions - this is after all a discussion forum, right?

In that context I see a poster who feels that there's been a huge influx of non-nationals in a short time and he feels uncomfortable with it and unwelcome in places he previously went.

Again, it's more sad than anything and surely people like you should be trying to correct that impression and educate rather than just jumping to the labelling and virtue signalling?

Now, think about what I've written here before you respond, and try to address the points above (happy to clarify anything you're unclear on), and maybe we could actually have a constructive discussion on this topic for a change.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The first thing that struck me about his post was how your immediate reply was to dismiss it with a claim of racism.

Except I didn't. I simply asked if he considered himself racist. I specifically didn't address his individual points because they were hyperbolic nonsense.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Could he actually be racist? Possibly.. But I like to actually read a post and the point/intent behind it before jumping to hyperbolic and unhelpful conclusions - this is after all a discussion forum, right?


In that context I see a poster who feels that there's been a huge influx of non-nationals in a short time and he feels uncomfortable with it and unwelcome in places he previously went.

No, there is no question. He is a racist. It is very evident from his post. Whether it is from fear, ignorance or hate is irrelevant to that fact.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Again, it's more sad than anything and surely people like you should be trying to correct that impression and educate rather than just jumping to the labelling and virtue signalling?

I see. It's not the racists fault or the fault of the person defending and enabling him. It's the fault of the person who thinks he is a racist for not trying harder to educate him. But the problem with that is his racism is clearly based on a warped perception and not actual facts so even if it was my responsibility to correct his world view, I wouldn't be able to.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Now, think about what I've written here before you respond, and try to address the points above (happy to clarify anything you're unclear on), and maybe we could actually have a constructive discussion on this topic for a change.

No amount of patronising will change your defence of outright racism.

_Kaiser_

Fair enough Captain. There's no point in trying to debate with someone who just wants to cry racism and point score among like-minded individuals.

Me I'm more interested in what increased migration brings to Ireland, what the benefits and risks are, how it can be managed in a sustainable way given our limited resources and significant domestic issues, how we ensure that we don't repeat the mistakes of our European neighbours and how we bring people already here along with all these changes.

Enjoy your day

batgoat

It's telling when a poster happily ignores outright racism and complains when people point it out...

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Fair enough Captain. There's no point in trying to debate with someone who just wants to cry racism and point score among like-minded individuals.

Me I'm more interested in what increased migration brings to Ireland, what the benefits and risks are, how it can be managed in a sustainable way given our limited resources and significant domestic issues, how we ensure that we don't repeat the mistakes of our European neighbours and how we bring people already here along with all these changes.

Enjoy your day

Sure. You tactically retreat all you want. And next time you cry about being called a racist remember this occasion where you defended the position a man who refuses to use a taxi just because it's a foreigner driving.

_Kaiser_

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Sure. You tactically retreat all you want. And next time you cry about being called a racist remember this occasion where you defended the position a man who refuses to use a taxi just because it's a foreigner driving.

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

Captain Obvious

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

Again you are trying to put the responsability on non-racists for the beliefs of racists. This is the post you are defending in case you forgot.

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Odhinn

tretorn wrote: »

When you wueue in a shop in Bray and you are the only non national there you know there is a problem.
You go into Dublin city centre and half the people on the bus are non national, the whole city is full of foreigners so much so that you leave early and dont go back.
You drive past schools in West Dublin and the entire primary school appears to be black. There is a big secondary school near Blanchardstown shopping centre and hardly any white teens at school closing time either.
We have no idea of the numbers coming in except what we see ourselves. The official figure is 12 per cent of the population is non national but they make up 33 per cent of the homeless numbers, 12 percent is probably the official number, like the travellers the true number is multiples of that.
I wont get into a taxi with a non national but all taxis late at night in Dublin are being driven by non nationals, where are Irish taxi drivers gone.

Yep, that's racist allright.

Billy Mays

Imagine reading that post and thinking "no, I don't see anything there that implies the poster doesn't like foreigners".

Sonics2k

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah if you need the "win" that badly then go for it :rolleyes:

I think trends outside this forum and indeed country through show that an increasing number of people are being tired of being talked down to and insulted on topics like this by people like yourself, and this is being reflected in hardening attitudes, election results, and new political movements.

The real danger is that the approach of people like yourself (to immediately jump to the accusations of racism, xenophobia or <insert Americanised term here>) is that some of these movements ARE actually dangerous and extreme and could lead to far bigger problems in the near future.

Most people place a value on national identity and belonging to a country of shared culture and history. In all the many posts and threads I've read on this subject here, I've yet to see ANYONE say "bloody foreigners. They should all be sent home. Ireland for the Irish!" (with whatever colourful phrases you might like to add to that).
Now maybe I've missed a few posts like that (I don't have time to read every one), but what I see is people asking how immigration benefits us, how do we avoid the problems seen elsewhere in Europe and the UK, how do we make sure that we're not inviting potentially dangerous individuals into our communities, how do we deal with the chancers and wasters (we have enough of our own), and how do we manage migration in a sustainable manner and give the newcomers opportunity to integrate and the locals time to adapt as well.

Now if you and others here consider those questions to be racist then I can't help you, but those discussions are happening with or without you or the even the likes of Leo and Coveney, and people want their questions heard and reasonable answers given. If not, I expect it'll be reflected in the ballot box before long as some of the incidents we've already seen in Ireland become more frequent.

This isn't scaremongering.. It's what's happening all over Europe. The only way to address it is through debate and open discussion.. Not something that can happen while dismissive labelling (and it comes from both "sides") is going on.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive about this. That persons post was just racist. There's no American politics or white guilt at play here.

Dude literally says he won't get in a cab with a non-national because they're a not white/Irish.

tretorn

I dunno.

I think if the poor girl who had takentoo much to drink had been picked up by an irish taxi driver he would have made sure she got home safely.

She was picked up by a person from an Asian background and raped orally and vaginally for over two hours. If you take a taxi at night time in Dublin now youa re getting into a car with someone who may not have been vetted correctly, all the foreigners look the same so a picture stuck on the dashboard isnt much use to you, it could be anyone with any sort of dubious background.

You need to look after your own personal safety because with the numbers coming in and from countries where records dont exist vetting is impossible.

I will make up my own mind and strongly advise people to make sure to get the last bus or Luas home, better to be safe than sorry.

I dont care if that makes me a racist, most of the non nationals here are racist too, they prefer to stick to their own communities and are only here because Ireland provides a better lifestyle than the countries they have left.

Captain Obvious

tretorn wrote: »

I dunno.

I think if the poor girl who had takentoo much to drink had been picked up by an irish taxi driver he would have made sure she got home safely.

She was picked up by a person from an Asian background and raped orally and vaginally for over two hours. If you take a taxi at night time in Dublin now youa re getting into a car with someone who may not have been vetted correctly, all the foreigners look the same so a picture stuck on the dashboard isnt much use to you, it could be anyone with any sort of dubious background.

You need to look after your own personal safety because with the numbers coming in and from countries where records dont exist vetting is impossible.

I will make up my own mind and strongly advise people to make sure to get the last bus or Luas home, better to be safe than sorry.

I dont care if that makes me a racist, most of the non nationals here are racist too, they prefer to stick to their own communities and are only here because Ireland provides a better lifestyle than the countries they have left.

Are you of the belief no white Irish taxi driver has ever taken advantage of a passenger?

Edit: Also, are you of the opinion that no woman has been attacked after getting a luas or bus home?

tretorn

No, of course there are bad apples in every profession but most Irish men manage to live alongside their fellow human beings without expecting some of them to dress head to toe in uncomfortable clothing so they wont draw male attention.

Irish men for the most part are respectful of women and they know rape is a serious crime that will have consequences.

Many of these non nationals are coming from countries where if you are raped its your own fault and women wont even report it, rapists will then commit this crime repeatedly and will never get caught. You have people coming to this country having been brought up to think anyone not covered up is worthless and she is available for whatever use men want to put her to.

As I said be careful around strangers whose culture and way of life is alien to you and definitely dont get into a locked moving vehicle with them.

I see there was another stabbing by someone shouting Allah in Manchester, the UK has become a very unpleasant place to live.

trellheim

the bang of racism and whataboutery of this thread

batgoat

tretorn wrote: »

No, of course there are bad apples in every profession but most Irish men manage to live alongside their fellow human beings without expecting some of them to dress head to toe in uncomfortable clothing so they wont draw male attention.

Irish men for the most part are respectful of women and they know rape is a serious crime that will have consequences.

Many of these non nationals are coming from countries where if you are raped its your own fault and women wont even report it, rapists will then commit this crime repeatedly and will never get caught. You have people coming to this country having been brought up to think anyone not covered up is worthless and she is available for whatever use men want to put her to.

As I said be careful around strangers whose culture and way of life is alien to you and definitely dont get into a locked moving vehicle with them.

I see there was another stabbing by someone shouting Allah in Manchester, the UK has become a very unpleasant place to live.

Eh, we have plenty of Irish people who say it's a woman's own fault that she was raped. We have plenty of Irish people on this forum who are happy to make plenty of judgements of rape victims. Look at George Hook, attacked more than one rape victim for which he's applauded by plenty for being a non pc voice.

You're intent on portraying non white people as barbarians while white Irish men are saints for the most part apparently.