Can you afford a home in Ireland?

We got our mortgage approval but it's all gone a bit mad so might hold off yet and go through the rigmarole again another time. Basic 3 beds for like 400k no thanks

_Brian

Elessar wrote: »

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:


To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.



It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

You can not afford where you are looking.

Either earn more or readjust your expectations and buy a house where you can afford.


Why do people insist on choosing areas to live based on what they would like rather than what they can afford.

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's great to hear of your successes but moving away isn't always an option for some, for various reasons, some simply don't have this option, some simply don't want to, social mobility isn't exactly clear cut, money is required, qualifications are probably a must, some simply don't have these things to do so

Never say never wanderer. Jesus I sound like an old sage!..;)

Problems are only things that need to be overcome. Change has always been good to me. Whenever I get told no, I prove people wrong. If you have the belief in what you can achieve you can achieve anything. It does require smarts and of course hard work.

Everyone has to decide what is right for themselves. Personally, I never have followed what the herd is doing. It has worked for me. I do not come from a privileged background, I come from a working background. You simply have to see where you fit in and make that work for you.

Yes. I would love the shiny glossy house but that simply isnt going to happen for me. I have bought old and done up. I have sold on, I have bought again and sold on. Luckily, it has been fun for me (as well as working) and I am now in a position of financial stability I could not have dreamed of, but it has taken a long time and a lot of sacrifice.

Patience....;)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sonics2k wrote: »

OP literally never said that though. The OP pointed out the basic joint income requirements to even be considered for a mortgage is very high, which it frankly is.

I'm in the process of getting a mortgage now and the absolute truth of the matter is that it never would have happened if numerous family members didn't gift us small amounts to help us get just the basic deposit of €22k.

Even then, it massively limits the choices of houses we'll be spending our lives in.

Again - that's not the issue. It's the idea that you MUST own a house.

Deposits are in place for a reason. There was a crash not so long ago partially because the criteria were too low. Then theres supply/demand. There's simply not enough houses - or enough space - for every family to own a house.

On the continent there isn't this 'I'm entitled to a house because I work' mentality and as a result, they didn't have as a big a crash when the **** hit the fan.

How else do you decide who should own one and who doesn't?

NSAman

Keatsian wrote: »

Young Irish people just don't seem to understand you should save up and buy a house in a rural location in a completely different country. Problem solved.

Perhaps if you read other posts by me Keatsian, you would know I dont only own property in rural locales (amongst others) in completely different countriES, but also here at home.

I refer you to the post above... work hard, save and use your smarts..;)

c.p.w.g.w

iamtony wrote: »

What are you one of these people who think renting for the rest of your life should he the norm. People want to eventually own their own home of course they do. In a society where renting is the norm all the landlords get wealthy while the common folk have to pay rent out of their pensions and live on peanuts.

I think the problem is not enough emphasis on saving, it should be drilled into us by our parents and by schools, personal finance should be a class.
Will power is a big issue. We should of all saved at least 30% of our pay since we left school but goin out an gettin out of it every weekend is the norm. P. S I include myself in this bracket when I was younger. And ordering food and wearing designer gear and iPhone etc. just basically not budgeting.
Social norms are ruining it not the government.

Edit. Basically the point I'm making is people need a bigger deposit then they can borrow earning less money.

Younger people seem to prioritize designer/status items such as iPhone, Michael Kors, Alex & Ani, season ticket for the rugby etc

Had a buddy giving out about the costs of buying a house, yet was happy to renew his munster season ticket and get the latest iPhone over the summer.

_Kaiser_

_Brian wrote: »

You can not afford where you are looking.

Either earn more or readjust your expectations and buy a house where you can afford.


Why do people insist on choosing areas to live based on what they would like rather than what they can afford.

Because no one wants to live in a run down area with known antisocial problems, or in the middle of nowhere with no facilities or transport.

These are rapidly becoming all that's available to people and it's not an answer for many.

Nor is this idea that "that's life for Dublin nowadays" and comparing it to the likes of London or other major cities.. FFS it's DUBLIN. A sprawling suburban mess with poor public transport, traffic chaos and generally poor standards of housing. It simply doesn't justify the cost of living or the cost of renting or a mortgage when you stand back and look at what you're paying for.

Just like 10 years ago the property market is out of control but this time the rental sector is worse and crucifying those who can't afford a mortgage.

We need to really look at the reality here which is that we're a small country with a small population and one actual mid-size city by international standards and ask why it is that everything costs so much and why we get so little back for the direct (and more importantly indirect) taxes we pay every month.

Keatsian

NSAman wrote: »

Perhaps if you read other posts by me Keatsian, you would know I dont only own property in rural locales (amongst others) in completely different countriES, but also here at home.

I refer you to the post above... work hard, save and use your smarts..;)

You said "I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland.
[...]
I left to live in a rural area of the US."


So your solution to not earning a "proper living" in Ireland was to leave. Someone who left is not an example of how to solve a housing problem in Ireland - regardless of whether they happen to own property here now - because Ireland is not concerned with housing people who don't live in it.

myshirt

Property taxes need to go up massively and CAT needs to go up massively, and no one likes it.

Housing policy and taxation policy has to drive workers near jobs, and those retired with little money or long term unemployed away from them. The build to rent model will go some way to doing this. It will keep a constant pipeline of workers fed into productive use, as if you can't afford the rent then off with you and in with the replacement. It's harsh at a glance, but overall better for the economy. A lot of rural people give out about Dublin, but the country needs a strong Dublin, and Dublin needs a strong Cork Limerick Galway corridor. None of that is going to happen unless we get the policy right.

One eyed Jack

I’ve never fully got my head around some people’s obsession in Ireland with owning property or having a mortgage that they complain about it’s affordability, etc, or just the idea of owning a house.

The OP asks the question can people afford homes in Ireland. At no point do they suggest anyone is actually entitled to own a home in Ireland (we’ve had enough of those threads already), so in answer to the question - yes, I can afford a home in Ireland. I could also afford to own property in Ireland, a house, if I wanted. I don’t want to though, as I’m quite happy to rent, and owning property has never been a goal of mine personally. I choose to rent, and for me where I live is home.

trellheim

We got our mortgage approval but it's all gone a bit mad so might hold off yet and go through the rigmarole again another time. Basic 3 beds for like 400k no thanks

I'm a bit puzzled by this comment. Do you think the market will drop ? the way I see it only the credit/deposit rules are stopping it going far far more expensive as there is a gigantic lack of supply especially in rentable areas .

iamtony

Greyfox wrote: »

I earn 28,000 a year and can't afford to go back to college so unless I marry a rich woman I'll never own a house. Years ago you could have an ok job and afford a house, now only the well off can afford a house and that's the sad reality of Ireland. enjoying life while your not too old is what matters, what's the point in working and studying your arse off if your miserable all the time

Have you ever though about delivering chinese food a few nights a week? In good ones you can earn about 150 a night.

_Kaiser_

myshirt wrote: »

Property taxes need to go up massively and CAT needs to go up massively, and no one likes it.

Housing policy and taxation policy has to drive workers near jobs, and those retired with little money or long term unemployed away from them. The build to rent model will go some way to doing this. It will keep a constant pipeline of workers fed into productive use, as if you can't afford the rent then off with you and in with the replacement. It's harsh at a glance, but overall better for the economy. A lot of rural people give out about Dublin, but the country needs a strong Dublin, and Dublin needs a strong Cork Limerick Galway corridor. None of that is going to happen unless we get the policy right.

A country is about more than it's economy though.

I'm not sure your plan of "can't afford it, tough.. Next!" is one that would sit well with most people given the already ridiculous costs involved.

As I said above, we need to start looking at why the costs are so high in this country and stop comparing ourselves to much bigger and stronger cities and countries elsewhere.

_Kaiser_

iamtony wrote: »

Have you ever though about delivering chinese food a few nights a week? In good ones you can earn about 150 a night.

Minus the cost of running your car, and the insurance changes to allow you to do such a job.

iamtony

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ve never fully got my head around some people’s obsession in Ireland with owning property or having a mortgage that they complain about it’s affordability, etc, or just the idea of owning a house.

The OP asks the question can people afford homes in Ireland. At no point do they suggest anyone is actually entitled to own a home in Ireland (we’ve had enough of those threads already), so in answer to the question - yes, I can afford a home in Ireland. I could also afford to own property in Ireland, a house, if I wanted. I don’t want to though, as I’m quite happy to rent, and owning property has never been a goal of mine personally. I choose to rent, and for me where I live is home.

why would you choose to be paying mad rent until the day you die over buying a house and eventually paying it off? I can never get my head around that one. Sure if you wanted to move around you could rent the house out or whatever but at least you know there's an end game.

iamtony

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Minus the cost of running your car, and the insurance changes to allow you to do such a job.

Yeah true it was just an idea.

_Kaiser_

trellheim wrote: »

I'm a bit puzzled by this comment. Do you think the market will drop ? the way I see it only the credit/deposit rules are stopping it going far far more expensive as there is a gigantic lack of supply especially in rentable areas .

Isn't this the same attitude that we had a decade ago though?

Property prices will only go up, buy now or be left behind, renting is dead money etc.

Next thing we'll hear about soft landings again.

We've really learned very little from the last 10 years.

NSAman

Keatsian wrote: »

You said "I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland.
[...]
I left to live in a rural area of the US."


So your solution to not earning a "proper living" in Ireland was to leave. Someone who left is not an example of how to solve a housing problem in Ireland - regardless of whether they happen to own property here now - because Ireland is not concerned with housing people who don't live in it.

Read the thread title. As I said, smarts.

namloc1980

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

No what’s funny about it?

Go to Germany Sweden etc the majority don’t own a house.

This nugget keeps being thrown around. Sweden has a similar home ownership rate to Ireland. Even in Germany home ownership rate is 52% i.e. the majority.

Source Eurostat

Elessar

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Next thing we'll hear about soft landings again.

We've really learned very little from the last 10 years.

We already are

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-house-prices-are-heading-for-soft-landing-s-p-1.3616705

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

namloc1980 wrote: »

This nugget keeps being thrown around. Sweden has a similar home ownership rate to Ireland. Even in Germany home ownership rate is 52% i.e. the majority.

Source Eurostat

It's more in the capital and large cities that people rent though. Berlin has a much higher rate of rate than the rest of the Federation.

Honestly not enough how it compares to Dublin, but appartments are a lot cheaper.

shivermetimber

No I can't and cannot see a way how I will at any stage in the future as a low income earner.

I'm not a scab, don't want anything for free and I am happy not to own and rent for life if the rental market was properly monitored and aligned with rent v buy as is done in other countries. The only incentive to buy is security and the way rentals are here at the moment it is driving people to consider the alternative when there should be no need to. I pay more then twice what I would repaying a small mortgage for a small countryside house or city apartment in rent at the moment and it is only going one way - up. Go figure.

namloc1980

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Isn't this the same attitude that we had a decade ago though?

Property prices will only go up, buy now or be left behind, renting is dead money etc.

Next thing we'll hear about soft landings again.

We've really learned very little from the last 10 years.

I remember reading threads back in 2007/08 on here where the "experts" were telling us about soft landings and that we were talking ourselves into a recession or some nonsense like that. One poster in particular was predicting continued property price growth because the fundamentals were sound! The same attitudes are coming out again.

One eyed Jack

iamtony wrote: »

why would you choose to be paying mad rent until the day you die over buying a house and eventually paying it off? I can never get my head around that one. Sure if you wanted to move around you could rent the house out or whatever but at least you know there's an end game.

I’m in the fortunate position I suppose that I can work remotely from anywhere as long as I have decent broadband, but the idea of owning property just never appealed to me is all. There was weighing up the pros and cons ever came into it. In saying that though, I do think property prices in this country for what people are getting for their money is massively overvalued. I just wouldn’t pay mad rent though, my rent is fair and reasonable for what I’m getting and where I’m living.

I could afford to rent until the day I die, so it’s not really an issue for me. I’ve considered the prospect of ending up in a retirement home, but I wouldn’t aspire to that either given the poor standards of elderly care facilities in Ireland.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

Rather than personalise the issue, how about this - should more people be able to afford housing?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

That’s the problem nowadays.

People want everything now with a click of their finger.

No working towards anything or saving, it’s all about the now.

No, the problem is housing is too expensive for most.

TomSweeney

Everyone I know in Ireland is loaded .... driving 2 or 3 cars worth 80 - 100 k each ...living in a house worth 500k + getting a 100k extension so yeah seems the good times are rolling in again back home.

Franz Von Peppercorn

_Brian wrote: »

You can not afford where you are looking.

Either earn more or readjust your expectations and buy a house where you can afford.


Why do people insist on choosing areas to live based on what they would like rather than what they can afford.

Why are houses so expensive to begin with. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect to buy a house in Dublin City if you work there.

Wanderer78

TomSweeney wrote: »

Everyone I know in Ireland is loaded .... driving 2 or 3 cars worth 80 - 100 k each ...living in a house worth 500k + getting a 100k extension so yeah seems the good times are rolling in again back home.

we move in far different circles, how much do they own or owe?

Deebles McBeebles

TomSweeney wrote: »

Everyone I know in Ireland is loaded .... driving 2 or 3 cars worth 80 - 100 k each ...living in a house worth 500k + getting a 100k extension so yeah seems the good times are rolling in again back home.

Everyone I know in Ireland is not loaded so that evens that out.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again - that's not the issue. It's the idea that you MUST own a house.

Deposits are in place for a reason. There was a crash not so long ago partially because the criteria were too low. Then theres supply/demand. There's simply not enough houses - or enough space - for every family to own a house.

On the continent there isn't this 'I'm entitled to a house because I work' mentality and as a result, they didn't have as a big a crash when the **** hit the fan.

How else do you decide who should own one and who doesn't?

Most of the continent has either higher home ownership or the kind of rental rules that protect renters for decades.

_Kaiser_

TomSweeney wrote: »

Everyone I know in Ireland is loaded .... driving 2 or 3 cars worth 80 - 100 k each ...living in a house worth 500k + getting a 100k extension so yeah seems the good times are rolling in again back home.

Cars will be on PCP finance deals. The rest is likely on credit too.

All of this has happened before, and it's happening again.

namloc1980

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's more in the capital and large cities that people rent though. Berlin has a much higher rate of rate than the rest of the Federation.

Honestly not enough how it compares to Dublin, but appartments are a lot cheaper.

My reply was in relation to this myth that most of Europe rents when it's not the case at all. In fact most EU countries (20) have a higher home ownership rate than Ireland.

TomSweeney

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we move in far different circles, how much do they own or owe?

This isn't even in posh areas, this is Raheny ..

Maybe they are up to their eyes in debt, maybe it's inherited wealth (I suspect a lot of it is this) - but it's just what I see when I go home.

Franz Von Peppercorn

TomSweeney wrote: »

This isn't even in posh areas, this is Raheny ..

Maybe they are up to their eyes in debt, maybe it's inherited wealth (I suspect a lot of it is this) - but it's just what I see when I go home.

Here’s what happening there. People on good wages (ie IT etc) are stuck in their houses because they have a tracker. So they extend the house.

Raheny in parts is quite wealthy, has been for a while.

Wanderer78

TomSweeney wrote: »

This isn't even in posh areas, this is Raheny ..

Maybe they are up to their eyes in debt, maybe it's inherited wealth (I suspect a lot of it is this) - but it's just what I see when I go home.

again, we move in very very different circles. most people i know are working their arses off, many driving fairly old cars at this stage, some of course driving newer cars, some not having a hope of buying their own home

namloc1980

TomSweeney wrote: »

This isn't even in posh areas, this is Raheny ..

Maybe they are up to their eyes in debt, maybe it's inherited wealth (I suspect a lot of it is this) - but it's just what I see when I go home.

Everyone in Raheny has inherited a load of wealth? The reality is that most of this is on credit or PCP in the case of cars. Huge numbers of all those 181s and 182s on the road are on PCP.

Fr_Dougal

Never worked in your entire life and want social housing? Off to Leitrim or Laois with you.

Working but permitted to apply for social housing? Fine, you should be able to apply for housing close to your job.

Working and not entitled to any social benefits? Tax breaks on mortgage repayments to assist you.

Productive people who want to work, and have demonstrated a desire to work, should be given more assistance to live closer to their work.

Scroungers like Margaret Cash? Get fvcked.

Arthur Daley

sydthebeat wrote: »

Almost 40% of the costs of building a house goes back to the government / state bodies in some form.... Be it VAT, income tax, prsi, development contributions, connection fees etc.

If the government wanted houses to be more affordable is within their gift to do that tomorrow.

They don't however, because:
1. They get nearly 40% from every house build
2. People are still purchasing at these levels
3. They say they are afraid builders will pocket the savings due to 2 above.

Exactly. And they own/dominate a significant chunk of the banking sector now. I.e. AIB. A criminally insane cabal of internatuonal finance, government, local land hoarders and developers have ramped the cost of living to uncompetative levels for the second time in 10 years.

Be in no doubts this is a deliverate ploy co ordinated through the offices of FF/FG (Noonan confirmed as much himself), and while thrift and saving are virtuous qualities, you will be a long time scrimping twopence here and there from your after tax income to even attempt to match the rampant accomodation cost inflation unfurled on us yet again. The brass neck to pull the same stunt twice in 15 years, and call it 'new politics'

MarkHenderson

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Social division is going to skyrocket if something isn't done, just browse through the recent threads on here there a seething undercurrent of resentment from taxpayers.
I get angry myself when skangers seemingly act with impunity yet expect everything for free, but work hard and you get hit from all sides with little in return.

Boards (thankfully) isn't a true reflection on Irish society.

OldMrBrennan83

Dónal wrote: »

Have a mortgage for the last 2 and a half years, North West Wicklow. Paying less for the mortgage per month (4 bed semi) than the rent we paid for a one bed apartment in Rathmines in 2007.

People always say about paying less but it's no use when you can't get the big lump up front that they require.

P_1

Wages have remained stagnant, property prices are rising. Who exactly is creaming off the top here?

_Kaiser_

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Never worked in your entire life and want social housing? Off to Leitrim or Laois with you.

Working but permitted to apply for social housing? Fine, you should be able to apply for housing close to your job.

Working and not entitled to any social benefits? Tax breaks on mortgage repayments to assist you.

Productive people who want to work, and have demonstrated a desire to work, should be given more assistance to live closer to their work.

Scroungers like Margaret Cash? Get fvcked.

Under that system I'd fall into category 3.

How about tax breaks on rent or commuting mileage to help me get the deposit needed for the mortgage in the first place?

I agree with you in theory, but it's not as simple as you suggest. Many such people are barely covering their expenses as is, never mind the idea of saving 20/30 grand on top of it.

If you can show a history of monthly rent payments that meet or exceed the equivalent mortgage numbers, the deposit requirement should be waived or significantly discounted.

MarkHenderson

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Cars will be on PCP finance deals. The rest is likely on credit too.

All of this has happened before, and it's happening again.

The same clowns with the two 181 Audi's and two holidays a year will be on Primetime and Joe Duffy in a years or so time blaming it on the government. Don't get me wrong FFG are useless twats but people need to take responsibility for their own actions.

honeybear

I was outbid on a house in the midlands recently. I can't get over how quickly houses are selling (most above asking price.) There have also been a lot of Sale Agreed period properties too.

Deebles McBeebles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

If you can show a history of monthly rent payments that meet or exceed the equivalent mortgage numbers, the deposit requirement should be waived or significantly discounted.

I'm in the same situation as yourself so it would help me too but down the line it would only increase house prices. Much like every scheme the government has tried, they all pushed the prices up.

klaaaz

P_1 wrote: »

Wages have remained stagnant, property prices are rising. Who exactly is creaming off the top here?

The wealthy under the regime of FFG. As long as they continue to be in power, housing policy for both buying and renting to benefit the majority (mostly younger people ) will not change.

For anyone who wishes to buy now, there are 245 houses for sale in Dublin on Daft at sub 250k today. https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/houses-for-sale/?s%5Bmxp%5D=250000

OldMrBrennan83

klaaaz wrote: »

The wealthy under the regime of FFG. As long as they continue to be in power, housing policy for both buying and renting to benefit the majority (mostly younger people ) will not change.

For anyone who wishes to buy now, there are 245 houses for sale in Dublin on Daft at sub 250k today. https://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/houses-for-sale/?s%5Bmxp%5D=250000

That the vast majority of will go for well over 250k. It's hardly worth looking at anything around 250k unless you've at least 300k to spend.

And then you've to find the deposit for 300k while paying current rents. Yeah.

Franz Von Peppercorn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Under that system I'd fall into category 3.

How about tax breaks on rent or commuting mileage to help me get the deposit needed for the mortgage in the first place?

I agree with you in theory, but it's not as simple as you suggest. Many such people are barely covering their expenses as is, never mind the idea of saving 20/30 grand on top of it.

If you can show a history of monthly rent payments that meet or exceed the equivalent mortgage numbers, the deposit requirement should be waived or significantly discounted.

Tax breaks on rent would just go to landlords.

Sunny Disposition

Bought a house in Clare two years ago when prices were depressed but improving quickly. The house has gone up a good bit in value since, probably around 20%. It’s getting worse too, new houses being built across the road, presumably to a slightly higher spec, are nearly 50% up.
All that said, an average couple can still buy something here, Dublin seems to be completely broken. No way working class people there can possibly buy.