Rowan Croft the gran torino

pablohoney87

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

He said, in definitive terms, that he had speaking engagements booked. But did not say where. He directly attributed the cancelling of those engagements to his voicing of his opinions on abortion.

Just listened to it.

He rambled a lot, contradicted himself a lot and gave zero information that would be possible to back up, fact check or verify. Regarding the film, he got a call from someone who told him he couldn't be cast for this reason while refusing to name the studio, project or person who gave him the info. Its a claim we really can't take seriously.

Again the speaking engagements he has no defence on. You come out as vocal about any cause as hard as he did you are risking that. It's why a salesman doesn't discuss politics with a potential client.

He also really understated how vocal he was for the pro life cause. Connors again has a big habit of playing the victim so its no surprise. It was much more than him just tweeting one poster saying pro life.

Really was a bit of a nothing interview with the exception of the traveller history which was interesting.

One bit that stuck out was Rowan saying that "they" are sterilising women and ruining families. Big WTF moment which was just left out there.

jeremyj1968

CatFromHue wrote: »

Did Connors just come out as pro life or did he verbally mock/attack pro choicers?

I can't remember exactly

He says that he just put up a picture with "Pro Life" and some sort of picture with it. I'm sure it's probably still up there.

CatFromHue

I think it was more than just that tbh

jeremyj1968

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think it was more than just that tbh

Ah yeah, Cat, but you know how these Twitter posts end up. Somebody posts some grand statement that sounds like something Michael D Higgins would say, but by the fifth comment underneath it everybody sounds like their making a Traveller "call out" video.

recedite

pablohoney87 wrote: »

One bit that stuck out was Rowan saying that "they" are sterilising women and ruining families. Big WTF moment which was just left out there.

I watched it, but did not hear that bit.


There was an interesting bit at the end, where Connors had obviously agreed in advance that he would be given a time slot to take a potshot at Casey (not present) and Croft would state he disagreed with Connors. But it went off very amicably, because they had already agreed to disagree. Nobody trying to shout the other person down. Some of the TV stations could learn from it.

recedite

It occurred to me after hearing Connor's explanation of traveller history and culture, that one possible policy would be for the state to provide camping grounds for them around the country, but give ownership of each campground to a particular family/clan.


This would get around Casey's objection that they are "camping on other peoples land". And as we know, when they are on council land, they are likely to wreck it, and wreck all the facilities.

But if it was their own place, they might look after it, and even tarmacadam it themselves. They could sort out for themselves who could stay on the reservation. The king of the travellers could decide, or else let fisticuffs decide. As Connors says, they have their own age-old traditions which they themselves respect.

In fairness they are native to this island, more than anyone, so they should be entitled to have a slice of it.

pablohoney87

recedite wrote: »

I watched it, but did not hear that

Its somewhere between the 20-25 min mark I think. It's around the point where they discuss haughey's final solution

recedite

OK, its at 27-28 mins.
Can't be sure what he meant, but the context of the conversation is that Connors is talking about "ideas" being promoted in the Dail, in the past, re sterilising traveller women and castrating the men. The end result being that his native ethnic group would have gradually died out (if these alleged ideas had actually been implemented).
I think Croft is comparing this to the current situation around Europe (eg Sweden) where natives are using contraception and abortion such that they reproduce at well below the replacement rate. And also in Ireland where the Irish no longer have big families, but meanwhile you''ll often see a Somali or a Nigerian with 5 or 6 small kids in tow.
That's my guess anyway. I don't think he means there is any forced sterilisation going on.

DEFTLEFTHAND

recedite wrote: »

It occurred to me after hearing Connor's explanation of traveller history and culture, that one possible policy would be for the state to provide camping grounds for them around the country, but give ownership of each campground to a particular family/clan.


This would get around Casey's objection that they are "camping on other peoples land". And as we know, when they are on council land, they are likely to wreck it, and wreck all the facilities.

But if it was their own place, they might look after it, and even tarmacadam it themselves. They could sort out for themselves who could stay on the reservation. The king of the travellers could decide, or else let fisticuffs decide. As Connors says, they have their own age-old traditions which they themselves respect.

In fairness they are native to this island, more than anyone, so they should be entitled to have a slice of it.

I'm from an ancient royal gaelic clan (non pavee) why shouldn't my family get free land? Give us the Hill of Tara.

We don't owe these people anything, they've taken much more from this country than they'll ever give.

recedite

why shouldn't my family get free land?

A lot of the big estates were broken up around 100 years ago and land was redistributed to small farmers. Maybe your family already benefited.

Anyway, the travellers currently get free caravans and mobile homes, and free houses if they are willing to settle.
It would actually be cheaper to give them a few reservations, and just let them run these according to their own rules.
It could be quite an interesting social experiment too.

dingledosser

In case you missed it, Rowan Croft and Gemma O'Doherty made it onto Channel 4 news tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=198daYFnDRY

Odhinn

dingledosser wrote: »

In case you missed it, Rowan Croft and Gemma O'Doherty made it onto Channel 4 news tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=198daYFnDRY

Giving them that kind of attention only gives the vermin encouragement. And using kids as a target is again the tactic of scum. Yer man torino can fuck off back to the brit army where he belongs.

Harry Palmr

Saw that, classic example of media bumbling into a vexatious atmosphere and stirring sh'it up for the sake of a good report. These people lurk under the rocks and that is where they should stay.

Stephen15

Odhinn wrote: »

Giving them that kind of attention only gives the vermin encouragement. And using kids as a target is again the tactic of scum. Yer man torino can fuck off back to the brit army where he belongs.

The kids weren't the target the demographics were the target. Did they seriously have nothing better to report on especially when they didn't find evidence of far right activity in Ireland.

I find it ironic though I was watching the live stream with Gemma and the National Party the other night and Justin Barret made a good point that the people who were who didn't like him could only give out about him because of his past links but not because he was telling any lies. Also ironic how the only ordinary native Irish person they interviewed in the report was likely against immigration and saying they were getting everything.

They said the majority of people in Longford viewed immigration as an opportunity but yet but no evidence in front of us to back up that claim.

Odhinn

Stephen15 wrote: »

The kids weren't the target the demographics were the target.

So that's why they used a picture instead of statistics?

Stephen15 wrote: »

Did they seriously have nothing better to report on especially when they didn't find evidence of far right activity in Ireland.

O there is far right activity. It's tiny in scale but its there. One wonders where these uber-patriots were when there was a real struggle for those wanting an Irish identity and having to fight for it from the 1960's to the 1990's. Maybe its because its easier to talk crap about about innocent children on the internet than it is to take up arms and actually do something.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I find it ironic though I was watching the live stream with Gemma and the National Party the other night and Justin Barret made a good point that the people who were who didn't like him could only give out about him because of his past links but not because he was telling any lies. Also ironic how the only ordinary native Irish person they interviewed in the report was likely against immigration and saying they were getting everything.

They said the majority of people in Longford viewed immigration as an opportunity but yet but no evidence in front of us to back up that claim.

When the fuck did the far right give a shite about "evidence"? Where was Barret when there were Irish people being persecuted because of their national identity not 3 hours from the nations capital? With a shower of shaven headed fat goons in some hall in Germany/Austria whinging about abortion?

jeremyj1968

Odhinn wrote: »

Giving them that kind of attention only gives the vermin encouragement. And using kids as a target is again the tactic of scum. Yer man torino can fuck off back to the brit army where he belongs.

Forget about Torino and O'Doherty, the local Pakistani doctor (who is obviously a migrant himself) says that Longford is "oversaturated" with migrants.

10:34 in this video, he is interviewed for Prime Time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXJBJz-IRM

Can his opinion not be taken as an objective analysis of the migrant situation in Longford?

Odhinn

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

Forget about Torino and O'Doherty, the local Pakistani doctor (who is obviously a migrant himself) says that Longford is "oversaturated" with migrants.

10:34 in this video, he is interviewed for Prime Time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXJBJz-IRM

Can his opinion not be taken as an objective analysis of the migrant situation in Longford?

Any single individuals opinion is hardly evidence. Don't let me harsh your mellow that a brown guy backs up your pre-existing prejudice though.

jeremyj1968

Odhinn wrote: »

Any single individuals opinion is hardly evidence. Don't let me harsh your mellow that a brown guy backs up your pre-existing prejudice though.

He's a GP so he's hardly just your average Joe. He meets a lot of people. And your second sentence doesn't really deserve a response.

Odhinn

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

He's a GP so he's hardly just your average Joe. He meets a lot of people. And your second sentence doesn't really deserve a response.

Jaysus, does he? Well that certainly overrides any impartial statistical evidence that may exist. Him and 'ferengi ears' Barret are obviously the men to go to on the issue.

Stephen15

Odhinn wrote: »

So that's why they used a picture instead of statistics?

A picture puts something into perspective far better for a lot of people than a bar chart.

O there is far right activity. It's tiny in scale but its there. One wonders where these uber-patriots were when there was a real struggle for those wanting an Irish identity and having to fight for it from the 1960's to the 1990's. Maybe its because its easier to talk crap about about innocent children on the internet than it is to take up arms and actually do something.

And maybe they are peaceful people who don't want to get themselves involved in violence like most sane minded people. Are you telling me now to be a patriot you have had to fight in a war. When did they talk crap about the children all they are doing is highlighting how Ireland has changed recently in terms of demographics.

When the fuck did the far right give a shite about "evidence"? Where was Barret when there were Irish people being persecuted because of their national identity not 3 hours from the nations capital? With a shower of shaven headed fat goons in some hall in Germany/Austria whinging about abortion?

Evidence about child rape gangs in England, evidence of large numbers of rapes on NYE in Germany in 2016, evidence of FGM carried by Muslim and African families, evidence of terror attacks in Europe carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam the list goes on.

Stephen15

Odhinn wrote: »

Jaysus, does he? Well that certainly overrides any impartial statistical evidence that may exist. Him and 'ferengi ears' Barret are obviously the men to go to on the issue.

Give me one thing that Justin Barrett has said that is factually incorrect? All you can seem to do is have personal digs at the man who actually speaks quite a lot of sense and facts even if his voice may be slightly annoying.

Odhinn

Stephen15 wrote: »

A picture puts something into perspective far better for a lot of people than a bar chart.

Yeah, particularily if you have have an agenda and can't get a bar chart to back it up. Though it has to be said if you have an agenda that needs to be forwarded by using little kids you're a piece of scum in the first place.

Stephen15 wrote: »

And maybe they are peaceful people who don't want to get themselves involved in violence like most sane minded people. .

"peaceful" in trying to inspire hate against little children but lacking the testicular fortitude to defend adults who are irish against persecution due solely to their chosen nationality.

Odhinn

Stephen15 wrote: »

Give me one thing that Justin Barrett has said that is factually incorrect? All you can seem to do is have personal digs at the man who actually speaks quite a lot of sense and facts even if his voice may be slightly annoying.

He speaks sense? Since when has this miracle occcured?

Stephen15

And since you like your evidence so much give me one that Gemma said that was hateful about those children in Longford

Odhinn

Stephen15 wrote: »

And since you like your evidence so much give me one that Gemma said that was hateful about those children in Longford

She showed a picture of same and used it to further her narrative (a particularily ignorant one) of native irish folk becoming a minority in their own state. Very particular given that one of her associates and fellow travellers is ex BA.

Ash.J.Williams

Stephen15 wrote: »

And since you like your evidence so much give me one that Gemma said that was hateful about those children in Longford

gemma is a sick individual

Stephen15

Odhinn wrote: »

She showed a picture of same and used it to further her narrative (a particularily ignorant one) of native irish folk becoming a minority in their own state. Very particular given that one of her associates and fellow travellers is ex BA.

It's the truth the Irish are becoming a minority in their homeland. 1 in 6 are now forgein born that's according to Channel 4 not me, GO'D, Justin Barrett or the GT and this figure is rising not falling.

Stephen15

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

gemma is a sick individual

For speaking the truth about mass immigration?

jay0109

Odhinn wrote: »

Jaysus, does he? Well that certainly overrides any impartial statistical evidence that may exist. Him and 'ferengi ears' Barret are obviously the men to go to on the issue.

14.7% of those that bothered to fill out the census forms in 2016 in Longford were non-nationals

Odhinn

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's the truth the Irish are becoming a minority in their homeland. 1 in 6 are now forgein born that's according to Channel 4 not me, GO'D, Justin Barrett or the GT and this figure is rising not falling.

1 in 6 constitutes a minoriity?

Stephen15

Odhinn wrote: »

1 in 6 constitutes a minoriity?

1 in 6 and growing constitutes that they will become a minority in years to come. I said they were becoming a minority not they already are.

Ha Long Bay

Stephen15 wrote: »

1 in 6 and growing constitutes that they will become a minority in years to come. I said they were becoming a minority not they already are.

Where do you get that figure?

According to the Census in 2016

"In April 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland, a 1.6 per cent decrease on the 2011 figure (544,357). The proportion of the population who were non-Irish nationals has also fallen from 12.2 per cent in 2011 to 11.6 per cent in 2016. "

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

Stephen15

john4321 wrote: »

Where do you get that figure?

According to the Census in 2016

"In April 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland, a 1.6 per cent decrease on the 2011 figure (544,357). The proportion of the population who were non-Irish nationals has also fallen from 12.2 per cent in 2011 to 11.6 per cent in 2016. "

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

That's what was said on Channel 4 News

Harry Palmr

Stephen15 wrote: »

1 in 6 and growing constitutes that they will become a minority in years to come. I said they were becoming a minority not they already are.

1 in 6 is 16% of the population.

It's actually about 11.5%. and whats more the "non national" (stupid term) population has actually fallen since the last 10 year census in 2011

In April 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland. This was a decrease of 1.6% on the 2011 census figure of 544,357 people. Ten nationalities accounted for 70% of the total figure. Polish nationals (122,515 people) made up the largest group while German nationals (11,531 people) were the smallest of the ten groups profiled.

Stephen15

Harry Palmr wrote: »

1 in 6 is 16% of the population.

It's actually about 11.5%. and whats more the "non national" (stupid term) population has actually fallen since the last 10 year census in 2011

I don't know I was only going off the Channel 4 report wouldn't time Channel 4 were presenting fake news mind you though.

May have risen since the last census. Wouldn't take much for 11% to become 16% and 16% to become 25% especially in a country with a small population like Ireland and I assume that figure probably only takes people who aren't Irish citizens so what about the paper Irish that would probably account for 16% and it's so easy for foreigners to get citizenship here.

Augme

Stephen15 wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

She showed a picture of same and used it to further her narrative (a particularily ignorant one) of native irish folk becoming a minority in their own state. Very particular given that one of her associates and fellow travellers is ex BA.

It's the truth the Irish are becoming a minority in their homeland. 1 in 6 are now forgein born that's according to Channel 4 not me, GO'D, Justin Barrett or the GT and this figure is rising not falling.

One in six is a majority now? What school did you go to?

Harry Palmr

You'll need to factor in the returning Irish as well, 2011 was when the exodus of white Irish was in full swing to Australia, New Zealand etc so as a % johnny foreigners are probably falling rather than rising.

Stephen15

Augme wrote: »

One in six is a majority now? What school did you go to?

Did you even read my post I said the Irish are becoming a minority not already are? Doesn't take much for 16% to rise to 25% and for 25% to rise to 50% if we don't turn the tide against mass immigration.

Harvey Weinstein

Harry Palmr wrote: »

1 in 6 is 16% of the population.

It's actually about 11.5%. and whats more the "non national" (stupid term) population has actually fallen since the last 10 year census in 2011

Tell the truth the number is 17.3%

As per the CSO

"The number of Irish residents born outside Ireland continued to increase and stood at 810,406 in 2016, an increase of 43,636 on the 2011 figure. In April 2016, persons born abroad accounted for 17.3 per cent of the population, up from 17 per cent in 2011"

17.3%

The reason the number of 'Non Nationals' has fallen is because the Govt has handed out citizenship like confetti. Something which is heavily promoted at each citizenship ceremony.

Progressives like to employ the "Don’t let the name throw you, Jimmy. It’s not really a floor; it’s more of a steel grating that allows material to sluice through so it can be collected and exported" strategy when discussing immigration.

Harvey Weinstein

Great exposure, they've done well. The immigration issue is bubbling to the surface finally. Lets hope they get more 'negative exposure'

Stephen15

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You'll need to factor in the returning Irish as well, 2011 was when the exodus of white Irish was in full swing to Australia, New Zealand etc so as a % johnny foreigners are probably falling rather than rising.

Many haven't returned look at the nurses as a prime example and yet the FG slogan for the 2016 GE was "let's keep the recovery going" certainly doesn't apply if you're living in Longford.

Augme

Stephen15 wrote: »

Augme wrote: »

One in six is a majority now? What school did you go to?

Did you even read my post I said the Irish are becoming a minority not already are? Doesn't take much for 16% to rise to 25% and for 25% to rise to 50% if we don't turn the tide against mass immigration.

Of course it does. Put humour me, name a country where it has happened and how long it took.

jay0109

Well pointed out Harvey. 11% my backside :rolleyes:
The census is beyond a joke at this stage- we must be the only Western country in the World with a falling Chinese population!
And I wonder how many of our tens of thousands of illegals here fill in the census? How many in those houses with 6,7,8 etc to a bedroom fill them out?

Around 21% of births are to nonNationals according to Maternity Hospital stats.

We have a higher % of nonNationals than Britain, France, Germany etc. And we managed in it 15 years.
But there no way in hell we could ever become a minority, not a chance :rolleyes:

Stephen15

Augme wrote: »

Of course it does. Put humour me, name a country where it has happened and how long it took.

Any country that has had mass immigration has been a large country like France, Germany or the UK. Ireland is only a small country so it wouldn't take for immigrants to start outnumbering the Irish.

Augme

Stephen15 wrote: »

Augme wrote: »

Of course it does. Put humour me, name a country where it has happened and how long it took.

Any country that has had mass immigration has been a large country like France, Germany or the UK. Ireland is only a small country so it wouldn't take for immigrants to start outnumbering the Irish.

So you can't give me any examples. Didn't think so.

Ha Long Bay

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't know I was only going off the Channel 4 report wouldn't time Channel 4 were presenting fake news mind you though.

May have risen since the last census. Wouldn't take much for 11% to become 16% and 16% to become 25% especially in a country with a small population like Ireland and I assume that figure probably only takes people who aren't Irish citizens so what about the paper Irish that would probably account for 16% and it's so easy for foreigners to get citizenship here.

11% to 25% would be an increase of nearly 600 000 people.

In 2018 just over 10000 people were awarded citizenship.

"The Minister for Justice and Equality, Charlie Flanagan TD, has announced that 10,158 people – including 3,136 children – were granted Irish citizenship in 2018."

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/press-release-minister-flanagan-announces-that-over-10,000-people-were-granted-Irish-citizenship-in-2018


Just because as you said earlier "A picture puts something into perspective far better for a lot of people than a bar chart." its not always the case.

Stephen15

Augme wrote: »

So you can't give me any examples. Didn't think so.

Ireland already has a higher percentage of non nationals than much larger countries like France, Germany and the UK so it's not inconceivable. Perhaps we'll be the first country where non nationals become the majority.

Stephen15

john4321 wrote: »

Just because as you said earlier "A picture puts something into perspective far better for a lot of people than a bar chart." its not always the case.

Tell that to the natives living in Longford who don't feel safe due to large numbers of immigrant youths hanging around the streets or the family of Sharon Coughlan.

Harry Palmr

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ireland already has a higher percentage of non nationals than much larger countries like France, Germany and the UK so it's not inconceivable. Perhaps we'll be the first country where non nationals become the majority.

But that won't happen cos citizenship is being handed out by the 1000 according to your new friend

It's strange how racists and xenophobes always think that only 'dem foreigners' pose a problem in the country they call home but never consider how they and their loved ones are or have been 'dem foreigners' in other countries.

Stephen15

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's strange how racists and xenophobes always think that only 'dem foreigners' pose a problem in the country they call home but never consider how they and their loved ones are or have been 'dem foreigners' in other countries.

Irish people living in other countries are irrelevant to what's happening in Ireland and if Irish people break the law in another country then that country is perfectly entitled and should deport them.