Father-in-law and Toyota Avensis

Shefwedfan

bazz26 wrote: »

Of course a dealer is going to say their product is flying out the door. It's his job and he is never going to say that his product isn't selling well as it just contributes to low confidence in the product by the consumer. The new car sales for Q1 will prove how good or bad Toyota are doing rather than dealer talk.

Always have to try and disagree with everyone to try and show you know more?

Trying to keep the post count up is it?

PaulKK

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes engine parts are common between each but comparing an Audi to a Skoda is laughable

There's nothing wrong with Skodas whatsoever.

No one is comparing it with an Audi but then why would we? We are talking about Toyotas here, cars for people who generally have no interest in cars.

We have an Octavia with a couple of extras and it's a very pleasant place to be. It's well put together, has plenty of space and has been faultlessly reliable.

I personally do not like Toyota at all, I find the seats uncomfortable, the materials cheap and the cars generally dull and bland. However, I can see the appeal in a reliable car for many people and wouldn't judge someone else for buying one. Your childish Skoda comments make you look ignorant and childish tbh.

For the OP, I would go for the Superb all day long. I sat in a new Mondeo, Passat and Superb sportline recently and I'd take the Superb every time.

colm_mcm

finalfurlong wrote: »

Anecdotes from boys in blue dont see much praise for the hyundai i 40-dont take as much hardship as the mondeos took in t heir day.Must have been a cheap tender.

You’re comparing old school petrol with present day diesel. Had they gone for Mondeo diesels, they wouldn’t like them either.

Casati

PaulKK wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with Skodas whatsoever.

No one is comparing it with an Audi but then why would we? We are talking about Toyotas here, cars for people who generally have no interest in cars.

We have an Octavia with a couple of extras and it's a very pleasant place to be. It's well put together, has plenty of space and has been faultlessly reliable.

I personally do not like Toyota at all, I find the seats uncomfortable, the materials cheap and the cars generally dull and bland. However, I can see the appeal in a reliable car for many people and wouldn't judge someone else for buying one. Your childish Skoda comments make you look ignorant and childish tbh.

For the OP, I would go for the Superb all day long. I sat in a new Mondeo, Passat and Superb sportline recently and I'd take the Superb every time.

I agree with the above, I have a Superb myself but the Sportline will run to 40k so that’s going to be a big step up. The Mondeo is good value with the 2.0 under 30k.

The Octavia is technically a class below the Avensis but would have a bigger boot and v similar space inside, not to mention superior ride, handling as well as nicer seats etc so is a good option

Not having the Avensis in the market isn’t a bad thing as it was really outclassed by practically all its competitors

colm_mcm

Have they dropped the awful 1.5 TDCI in the Mondeo?

biko

LillySV and Shefwedfan threadbanned until 2019

Casati

colm_mcm wrote: »

Have they dropped the awful 1.5 TDCI in the Mondeo?

It’s gone off the price list, might be a temporary thing until WLTP is worked out. I see Passat entry level engine is also a 2.0 150 Bhp

Wildly Boaring

road_high wrote: »

I think the Hybrid PR spin has yet to fully play out in Toyota sales figures in Ireland- a lot of their sales were the traditional types that bought an Avensis or Corolla diesel- it’s going to be quite a hard sell I reckon to get them to go petrol hybrid, not a chance if they are doing a little towing. Same for the RAV4.
The price rises as well are not going to help as the competition such as Skoda and Peugeot have improved considerably with a full complement of fuel options

Amen

These hybrids are not economical.
Yes a plug in hybrid has good fuel economy especially for those doing short runs.

They are way too dear new.

Take a Corolla driver changing to a plug in hybrid. The fuel economy difference will not cover the 3 year cost of change difference.

The hybrids are no better on fuel than diesels and dearer.

Toyota are banking on the wrong tech.
Have they even got an electric car????

They need their leaf out and pronto.

They should have kept a skeleton of diesels (but perhaps rest of world disagrees with ireland)

OldMrBrennan83

PaulKK wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with Skodas whatsoever.

No one is comparing it with an Audi but then why would we? We are talking about Toyotas here, cars for people who generally have no interest in cars.

We have an Octavia with a couple of extras and it's a very pleasant place to be. It's well put together, has plenty of space and has been faultlessly reliable.

I personally do not like Toyota at all, I find the seats uncomfortable, the materials cheap and the cars generally dull and bland. However, I can see the appeal in a reliable car for many people and wouldn't judge someone else for buying one. Your childish Skoda comments make you look ignorant and childish tbh.

For the OP, I would go for the Superb all day long. I sat in a new Mondeo, Passat and Superb sportline recently and I'd take the Superb every time.

I love the interior and seats in the wife's Auris. Then again, if seats really mattered we'd all be driving Volvos.

Superb over Passat or Mondeo though yes, definitely.

logie101

Thanks for taking the time to post guys. This has certainly provoked a lot of debate.
The father-in-law is typical of many country gents who isn’t interested in cars but views Toyota as a good reliable car that has a better image than Ford or Skoda.

He buys new because he sees it as a reliability thing. So I can’t get him to buy second hand. No chance.

He is going to test drive the Skoda Superb and the Ford mondeo in the next few days so I will update how that goes.

The Camery is too expensive for him. He is a Cavan man!
Boot space is also important as he plays golf so I’m not sure about the RAV4.
The New Corolla Estate could be a contender.

Wildly Boaring

logie101 wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to post guys. This has certainly provoked a lot of debate.
The father-in-law is typical of many country gents who isn’t interested in cars but views Toyota as a good reliable car that has a better image than Ford or Skoda.

He buys new because he sees it as a reliability thing. So I can’t get him to buy second hand. No chance.

He is going to test drive the Skoda Superb and the Ford mondeo in the next few days so I will update how that goes.

The Camery is too expensive for him. He is a Cavan man!
Boot space is also important as he plays golf so I’m not sure about the RAV4.
The New Corolla Estate could be a contender.

Superb be a bit dear too?

road_high

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Amen

These hybrids are not economical.
Yes a plug in hybrid has good fuel economy especially for those doing short runs.

They are way too dear new.

Take a Corolla driver changing to a plug in hybrid. The fuel economy difference will not cover the 3 year cost of change difference.

The hybrids are no better on fuel than diesels and dearer.

As far as I can make out you're talking close to 30k for a new hybrid one. Lot of money considering you could get a basic older model for low 20k's and see loads of them around.

Bicycle

road_high wrote: »

Interesting you say fuel economy is much higher- Toyota marketing spin would have you believe otherwise. Granted the Rav4 would be slightly heavier than an Avensis I don’t think they’ll work out more economical than a diesel fit anyone doing mileage.
Mazda 6 is probably closest in terms of Japanese family saloon barge in the traditional sense.

They say it takes a few months to "train in" the engine to get it more fuel efficient. But its still a 2.5l engine. And the battery weighs quite a bit.

We had her down in Kerry over Hallow'een and coming down the mountains was great fun. Our best phase was a continuous 15 minutes without using any fuel Problem was we had to get up to the top first!!

Our old Avensis Diesel was really good on fuel. Hubby drives the RAV, I have an old Avensis Verso (Petrol) and while the RAV is more fuel efficient than the Verso, its still nowhere near as good as the old reliable diesel. And I am sure the new models will be even more efficient.

I still like it a lot though. I like the height. I didn't like the low feel of the Avensis.

Mad_maxx

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Clearly you havent a clue what your talking about....they are far from the same when you drive them

Yes engine parts are common between each but comparing an Audi to a Skoda is laughable

No it isn't

Mad_maxx

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PaulKK wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with Skodas whatsoever.

No one is comparing it with an Audi but then why would we? We are talking about Toyotas here, cars for people who generally have no interest in cars.

We have an Octavia with a couple of extras and it's a very pleasant place to be. It's well put together, has plenty of space and has been faultlessly reliable.

I personally do not like Toyota at all, I find the seats uncomfortable, the materials cheap and the cars generally dull and bland. However, I can see the appeal in a reliable car for many people and wouldn't judge someone else for buying one. Your childish Skoda comments make you look ignorant and childish tbh.

For the OP, I would go for the Superb all day long. I sat in a new Mondeo, Passat and Superb sportline recently and I'd take the Superb every time.

What about the mazda 6?

Excellent value second hand

PaulKK

Mad_maxx wrote: »

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What about the mazda 6?

Excellent value second hand

Certainly would be a contender but sounds like OP needs it to be new.

30k would buy a lot of second hand car. I'd be looking at a second hand is300h or 330e for that kind of money.

logie101

PaulKK wrote: »

Certainly would be a contender but sounds like OP needs it to be new.

30k would buy a lot of second hand car. I'd be looking at a second hand is300h or 330e for that kind of money.

No has to be a new car.

bazz26

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Always have to try and disagree with everyone to try and show you know more?

Trying to keep the post count up is it?

Nope, I don't know more but I believe actual sales figures over dealer hype talk anyday. And resorting to childish attacks on other posters just because someone disagrees with you is rather sad and petty. Time to grow up or put the keypad down for a while.

Now back on topic.

Mad_maxx

logie101 wrote: »

No has to be a new car.

Mazda 6 demo for sale for 30 k in North West

punisher5112

Has Mazda fixed their engines made of chocolate????

I would be very much afraid and re sale value also.

road_high

bazz26 wrote: »

Nope, I don't know more but I believe actual sales figures over dealer hype talk anyday. And resorting to childish attacks on other posters just because someone disagrees with you is rather sad and petty. Time to grow up or put the keypad down for a while.

Now back on topic.

How are the Toyota sales figures looking? 2018 looked pretty alright, thought they did have some diesels (25%?) sales to offer. From now on it’s petrol only

Supergurrier

My dad has bought a new avensis diesel every 2 years from 2000 to 2016 . This summer as diesels were no longer available he bought a rav4 d4d.

bazz26

road_high wrote: »

How are the Toyota sales figures looking? 2018 looked pretty alright, thought they did have some diesels (25%?) sales to offer. From now on it’s petrol only

The Irish market has always been good for Toyota and they probably had no trouble shifting the last of their diesel models. However you can see from here that their 2018 market share fell 5% over 2017 no doubt due to the loss of diesel models and the Avensis:

https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

2019 Q1 will be an interesting one for them though. With the Avensis gone, new Corolla and Rav4 without a diesel option it will be interesting to see how they get on. Their new range of hybrids are not cheap, a new Corolla hybrid costing from 27k which would have bought you a well speced Avensis diesel previously.

AMKC

@OP How about a new Kia Optima. They are a fine car and look good too. The interior is a bit dull but no worse than a VW or Toyota.

Opel Insignia and Mazda 6 are two other options he could look at.

The new Peugeot 508 is out now too and is a stunning car. Well worth looking at and don't believe any of the French are bad stuff that's long gone. Peugeot doing very well in Ireland again and no doubt the 508 is going to be very successful for them too.

ba_barabus

AMKC wrote: »

@OP How about a new Kia Optima. They are a fine car and look good too. The interior is a bit dull but no worse than a VW or Toyota.

Opel Insignia and Mazda 6 are two other options he could look at.

The new Peugeot 508 is out now too and is a stunning car. Well worth looking at and don't believe any of the French are bad stuff that's long gone. Peugeot doing very well in Ireland again and no doubt the 508 is going to be very successful for them too.

Having sat in a new 508 I can't see anyone who wants space getting one. Tight inside, A pillar really eats into head room when it morphs into the roof. Boot was shallow too.

It's nice but it's not for anyone who likes space inside.

road_high

Tons of other good options with longer warranties- the Koreans, French and of course German manufacturers have upped their games no end in terms of driver appeal, finish, dynamics and quality. I’d have any of the new Peugeots over an equivalent Toyota for example.
The 508 is very appealing indeed, pity the price isn’t more keen.

Casati

bazz26 wrote: »

The Irish market has always been good for Toyota and they probably had no trouble shifting the last of their diesel models. However you can see from here that their 2018 market share fell 5% over 2017 no doubt due to the loss of diesel models and the Avensis:

https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

2019 Q1 will be an interesting one for them though. With the Avensis gone, new Corolla and Rav4 without a diesel option it will be interesting to see how they get on. Their new range of hybrids are not cheap, a new Corolla hybrid costing from 27k which would have bought you a well speced Avensis diesel previously.

I can see Toyota having strong sales from new (money) & younger customers, the like of the CH-R attracts a different segment of customers. They are re positioning as a more expensive brand offering, and ultimately like any other business they will be more concerned with revenue and profit than absolute numbers sold

road_high

Casati wrote: »

I can see Toyota having strong sales from new (money) & younger customers, the like of the CH-R attracts a different segment of customers. They are re positioning as a more expensive brand offering, and ultimately like any other business they will be more concerned with revenue and profit than absolute numbers sold

Perhaps but I don’t see the prestige element that might command higher prices? I think they’ve gone downmarket, their interiors in particular haven’t kept pace with the competition. Certainly not premium products

Shefwedfan

Just to update the OP. I was in a Toyota dealer but was not there to buy a car. The person who works in the dealership has no reason to "dealer talk" me and I know for a fact he wasn't.

In regards to Toyota. I have no shares in them. Don't own a Toyota and maybe I never will. The new RAV4 is a very nice car. As I mentioned available in most Toyota dealers now to demo

As the numbers are brought up. Toyota are number 2 and yes down 5% but maybe it is worth checking what is behind the numbers. The Avensis went end of life and last years sales went down 75% year on year. Their replacement for Avensis was not available and their premium Crossover was also end of life. Impressive results in my eyes with such huge changes last year

As other posters have mentioned the C-HR is up 27% year on year.

More interesting is the Irish market. Diesel is down 20% year on year and will continue to fall this year. Hybrid is up 56% year on year. PHEV is up 125% YOY and electric is up 97% YOY.

Toyota are the only dealer at the moment able to provide a full range of hybrid cars to a buyer.

So if looking at a new car now I would never recommend anyone to buy a diesel unless they are doing huge mileage and it suits their requirements

All the Skoda recommendations, Skoda is part of VW group which plans in the next 2-3 years to bring out 27 electric cars and 300 electric cars by 2025. Along with electric they are bringing out Hybrids and PHEV. Straight diesel is not really developed anymore, they are bringing out a new hybrid diesel..... :-)

I am not saying diesel is dead and it will be around but if you buy a car new on a regular basis then expect the trade in for your diesel in 3 years to have dropped significantly.

If you want a better view, look at markets outside Ireland, diesel is going away, Ireland is a few years behind.

Best to look at what the persons requirements are. Do they suit a hybrid? if not then look at diesel.

If they suit a hybrid then you would be mad to buy a diesel. If your buying a hybrid then really at the moment Toyota are ahead of the rest....

vectra

punisher5112 wrote: »

Would he look at the Mondeo? I know they are meant to be going in 2020 though... Could be 2022 can't recall.

Where did you hear that?
I know they have been dropped in North America.
But no word of them being dropped in the EU.
In fact an updated model is on the way this year.

Shefwedfan

vectra wrote: »

Where did you hear that?
I know they have been dropped in North America.
But no word of them being dropped in the EU.
In fact an updated model is on the way this year.

Some of the diesel engines in the Mondeo had to be pulled because they got such high results on the WLTP it made no sense to try and sell them.....

gooner99

Whats the story with the WLTP. Is it law now that it must be quoted for all New cars and the old system dropped?

vectra

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Some of the diesel engines in the Mondeo had to be pulled because they got such high results on the WLTP it made no sense to try and sell them.....

Hang on.
Are they *engines* just gone until they get on top of the new tests?
I assume you mean made no sense to sell the Mondeo with those engines?
There is no word of them dropping the Mondeo totally which was my question.

Shefwedfan

vectra wrote: »

Hang on.
Are they *engines* just gone until they get on top of the new tests?
I assume you mean made no sense to sell the Mondeo with those engines?
There is no word of them dropping the Mondeo totally which was my question.

It was announced that the 1.6TDci Mondeo would be pulled as an engine and not sold again because of the WLTP. The 1.6 was the most popular in Ireland


It was posted here before, I think it was on Indo which confirmed the removal.



Nothing concrete on dropping the Mondeo totally. Just whispers in the press. Google and you will find plenty of articles

vectra

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was announced that the 1.6TDci Mondeo would be pulled as an engine and not sold again because of the WLTP. The 1.6 was the most popular in Ireland


It was posted here before, I think it was on Indo which confirmed the removal.



Nothing concrete on dropping the Mondeo totally. Just whispers in the press. Google and you will find plenty of articles

I think if you read it again you will see it was the 1.5 and not the 1.6 that was dropped.
It was also said there are no plans to drop the Mondeo in the EU at the moment.

punisher5112

Vectra I do apologize I never spot the European and USA part.

So they are dropping the fusion.

The USA has other very similar models anyway.

vectra

punisher5112 wrote: »

Vectra I do apologize I never spot the European and USA part.

So they are dropping the fusion.

The USA has other very similar models anyway.

No need to apologize.
I was curious as another Mondeo could be an option for me yet.
I don't want to buy a model that is getting dropped.

punisher5112

vectra wrote: »

No need to apologize.
I was curious as another Mondeo could be an option for me yet.
I don't want to buy a model that is getting dropped.

I would miss them, I really like them.

Shefwedfan

vectra wrote: »

I think if you read it again you will see it was the 1.5 and not the 1.6 that was dropped.
It was also said there are no plans to drop the Mondeo in the EU at the moment.

Could be. As I said I cant find the article.

vectra

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Could be. As I said I cant find the article.

It is
trust me.

Mike9832

Prius pluggin hydrid while a little expensive would be a great car

Kia Niro pluggin hybrid would be better again, but can't go wrong with a Prius, understand Toyota fans

road_high

punisher5112 wrote: »

I would miss them, I really like them.

Me too- that class of car in general. Not everyone wants a stupid crossover or plug in hybrid thing.

ba_barabus

road_high wrote: »

Me too- that class of car in general. Not everyone wants a stupid crossover or plug in hybrid thing.

I'm going to continue driving saloons as long as possible. I think they're a lot more refined than hatchbacks

vectra

ba_barabus wrote: »

I'm going to continue driving saloons as long as possible. I think they're a lot more refined than hatchbacks

So you would prefer a Mondeo saloon to a Mondeo Hatch?

ba_barabus

vectra wrote: »

So you would prefer a Mondeo saloon to a Mondeo Hatch?

Personal preference would say yes, but with the Mondeo I've found the opening particularly narrow in the past making the huge boot redundant. I just like saloons, always have.

thecomedian

OP from a golfing point of view make sure it’s an estate. It makes such a difference.
The Golf estate has a large boot as well. We have one and when I get to use it I can just throw the bag in anyway compared to my usual 3 series salon where I’ve to take out clubs and angle it in.
Also very hard to beat s Skoda Superb estate if you can get it for that money.

PaulKK

bazz26 wrote: »

Their new range of hybrids are not cheap, a new Corolla hybrid costing from 27k which would have bought you a well speced Avensis diesel previously.

I know someone who was quoted 29.5k for a 191 1.8 hybrid Luna Corolla a few weeks ago.

To each their own and all that but I really can't see how anyone could justify that kind of money for what is the definition of white goods a to b motoring.

road_high

PaulKK wrote: »

I know someone who was quoted 29.5k for a 191 1.8 hybrid Luna Corolla a few weeks ago.

To each their own and all that but I really can't see how anyone could justify that kind of money for what is the definition of white goods a to b motoring.

This is insanity !

Toyotafanboi

road_high wrote: »

This is insanity !

Is it though? It's the only small saloon hybrid on the market I think. I don't know if there's a huge demand for it if you need one it's your only shout.

They don't want to go under valuing the product, that'd be much worse for the brand. I'd say a 1.8 hybrid makes it a respectable drive and if they get the fit and finish right it could be a fairly nice vehicle, they aren't bad looking.

€29.5k is only a Golf Highline, even a decent spec Focus saloon is well into the mid 20's.

ba_barabus

Am I not mistaken in thinking there is a regular petrol Corolla available for much cheaper?